What makes someone have suicidal thoughts ?

[Rachna94]

I am posting chart of a gal. She is very prone to suicidal thoughts. Can anyone analyse as to what indicates such a nature ? Does this has anything to do with Retrograde Mars in opposition to Mercury and Sun in 11th ?

I am just wondering how to help out this person. Seems she has lost hope and interest to carry on with life issues.

Any insight would be helpful.

[R4VEN]

TBH Rachna, that chart is quite difficult to read. One from astro.com is preferable.

Suicidal thoughts is generally the domain of a difficult Neptune. On this chart, Neptune is:

• very closely conjunct Mercury (indicating a difficulty in finding the truth in her thoughts, which can lead to major delusions and illusions)
• conjunct Sun (indicating a very, very sensitive nature. This person feels what others feel, and that can be overwhelming and emotionally draining.)
• opposite Mars in Cancer (low energy, and a difficulty in being able to act for themselves; this can sometimes lead to dependence upon others.)

She has Sun, Mercury, Neptune and Uranus in Capricorn in the 11th house. This is quite `heavy' and responsible for one so young. Not only does she `pick up' what others are thinking and feeling, she may also believe that the way they are feeling is her fault, and that she must do something to correct this.

In order to define herself, and to work out where she ends and others begin, she must learn to psychically protect herself so that she doesn't always pick up on the feelings and thoughts of others.

[Ixaee]

Moon square Mars + Neptune & Mercury opposite Mars in Cancer

[MantisReligiosa]

uhmm..depression. This has nothing to do with astrology. I am sick of people who try to look for answers to medicalconditions in the chart.
I asked the same questions on forums when I was depressed, and people told me it's the lack of fire in my chart..I tried telling them I saw other charts of no fire that were far from being depressed, AND I know one Leo Sun, Aries Moon who was severely manic-depressive all of his life, despite being a very intelligent, talented person with a bright future ahead, and he ended up killing himself in his mid 30s.

Truth is depression can always be explained through basic psychology.
If this person has thoughts of suicide it means she has bottled up a lot of anger over a long period of time, and is coming close to a breaking point.
I've been there, about 3 years ago. She needs to either seek professional help, or talk to someone she can trust about her deepest feelings/thoughts.

[MantisReligiosa]

On second thought..there might be an explanation..lol.

I see she has Mercury in Cap tightly conjunct Neptune and Uranus, also opposite Mars in Cancer. This can be maddening.

The Neptune-Saturn combination is always very heavy/grim. Saturn is fears, and Neptune is imagination..so you cannot even begin to understand how this person's sees life. I am guessing she must be very pessimistic, and possibly anxious/fearful/paranoid, because she sees threats and problems that aren't even there.

I have a similar combination of energies in my chart, and I have been severely depressed throughout my teens. Still have my dark days..
In my chart, I have Mercury in Pisces square Mars, square Moon, square Jupiter, sextile Uranus, but Neptune, ruler of my Pisces planets is in Capricorn, AND tightly conjunct Saturn, both loosely conjunct Uranus..similar picture.

I also have Sun and Venus in Pisces, which makes my final dispositor to be Saturn for all my planets..

Neptune is not the planet of depression, like many think, Neptune is simply "out of this world" and Neptunians have no boundaries or strong sense of physical limitations.
In fact, Neptunians, of all types of archetypes, should accept death the easiest.
Saturn, on the other hand, is all about grim realities and physical limitations, and is more fearful of death than any other energy.

She also has her Mercury conjunct Uranus which must add the maddness, like I said..her mind is very hectic and agitated, on the one hand, melancholic and slow, on the other.
With Mars in hard aspect to Mercury(I have this one) she may be prone to jump to conclusions too soon, and make bad decisions, so, unfortunately, this can make her actually do it if her mind gets set on suicide.

She also has a Mars-Neptune aspect, a hard aspect, I am having these by transit.
She must feel drained of energy, and finds it very difficult to "get it together". But with all the Cap planets, I am guessing this comes from her basic drives being focused on Capricorn issues.
She might be able to release some of this inner tension if she can find some activity that pleases both Saturn and Neptune, like do some creative works.

[Rachna94]

Thanks to you all to look up at the chart.

@R4VEN, you're right. She usually can "pick up" the feelings of others and "self blame" has always been a part of her life as far as I have observed her. Sometimes, in order stay away from useless feelings and vibes, she completely cuts off her communication to the world rendering herself more helpless than ever. I am trying to bring her back to optimism yet somehow even I have started to feel helpless, no solution seems applicable for her issues.

@Ixaee, Mars, in its fall and making difficult aspects seems to be the cause yet her tendencies seem to somehow be linked to her lack of hope.

@Mantis Religiosa, I agree, the causes of such a tendency may not very well be explained by astrology yet somehow when nothing seems to work towards giving solution, Astrology has always been a guide. And right now I am in the same situation. want to help her but nothing works. Even professional help is proving to be useless as she wants either the solution(which is not in her hands) to her problems or just end herself (escaping the problems). Now bothways she'll end up doing something wrong, I fear.

[R4VEN]

Note also that currently she has transiting Saturn conjunct her natal Moon in Libra. This is the isolating influence at present. This transit will also exacerbate any depression which is influencing her moods. It is also a time of intense self-judgement and criticism, which is made worse if she is prone to this in the first place. A Libra Moon tends to keep on top of things by intellectualising life, so short-circuiting the natural human necessity for regular emotional release.

Be aware that when Saturn reaches 14-15 degrees of Libra, the conjunction of Saturn to natal Jupiter at the same time as it squares natal Mars will further activate her planets in cardinal signs. There is the probability of even deeper and darker moods, as she further judges herself and her life as being `useless'. Normally her Moon-Jupiter conjunction would be one of her more optimistic aspects, but I feel that Saturn is currently - and about to - touch just too many of her planets.

Note also that her natal Saturn - in Aquarius in the 12th house - is not an easy placement of Saturn. It gives her a desire to withdraw when she is challenged, but being in an air sign it also leads her to intellectualising her life situation, rather than fully feeling.

[MantisReligiosa]

Originally Posted by Rachna94

Thanks to you all to look up at the chart.

@Mantis Religiosa, I agree, the causes of such a tendency may not very well be explained by astrology yet somehow when nothing seems to work towards giving solution, Astrology has always been a guide. And right now I am in the same situation. want to help her but nothing works. Even professional help is proving to be useless as she wants either the solution(which is not in her hands) to her problems or just end herself (escaping the problems). Now bothways she'll end up doing something wrong, I fear.

I just looked at her Pluto placement, and..she must be very young. I'm guessing born in January '93?
Her depression is probably very intense due to hormones, too. Especially if it's in her family history.
I am 22 now, and have only STARTED to slowly lift from depression at 19..in between 19 and 21, approximately, I went through a phase of manic-depression(alternating sequences of mania and depression). I am not completely over it, but, still much more stable than I was in high school.
I would add that my depression was probably worsened by high school environment, which was like being in the jungle.
I never went to see a therapist, and I had nobody to talk to in high school, either, but, still..here I am. "still standing better than I ever did", in the words of Elton John.
Depression is a serious illness as far as I can tell, it may be softened or hardened by environmental situations, but it is 80% in the person's head.
She just has to go through it, it's just like a fever..it has to break at some point.

For me, a low point coincided with Saturn transitting in square to my natal Moon-Mars-Jupiter stellium, when I was around 18-19, then opposite my Sun-Venus, and finally conjunct my Asc.
I also had T Uranus conjunct natal Sun, opposite Asc at around the same time..it was hell while I was going through it, but after they passed, I was much more clear-headed.

[Lin]

LOOK at all those squares to the Moon.
Chances are her mother is a depressive and has had suicidal thoughts.
Very often depression is familial and these are the negatives passed down from generation to generation.
LIN

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by Lin

LOOK at all those squares to the Moon.
Chances are her mother is a depressive and has had suicidal thoughts.
Very often depression is familial and these are the negatives passed down from generation to generation.
LIN

I agree, massive problems relating to mother and women here

Saturn in 12th shows missing, absent or ineffectual father in early childhood. although well aspected prob gets on better with men/father than mother or women

mars retro is handle of bucket chart
Bucket chart
http://www.myastrologybook.com/Bucket-planetary-pattern-astrology.htm
http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/bucket.html
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natal_astrology#Aspect_patterns
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/funnel.html
http://www.astrococktail.com/planetaryorderIII.html

Retrograde planets
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22923
http://astrology.findyourfate.com/astrology-retrograde.htm
http://www.north-node.com/astrology-tutorials/retrogrades
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/retrogradeplanets.htm
http://www.north-node.com/astrology-tutorials/retrogrades
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5796&postcount=8
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5861&postcount=10
Pluto retrograde in scorpio above

Mars Retrograde
* reconsiders before expressing anger
* finds competitive situations hard to handle
* tends to repress and so ....
* can become depressed

I notice she has NO fire in her chart, in Equal house Moon/Jupiter would be 8th house. I suggest you research here to see which house the moon fits.

Lack of elementshttp://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18077
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/elements.html
http://www.astrology.aryabhatt.com/Astrology_Elements.asp
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/EmptyElement12.1.htm
http://www.astrologyclub.org/article.../inferior2.htm


The Mysteries of the 8th House: House of Death & Transformation
by Carmen Turner-Schott
http://www.ofspirit.com/carmenturnerschott1.htm

As has been mentioned T Saturn is currently conjunct natal moon which would make anyone depressed, short of money and want to withdraw emotionally

when T Uranus gets to 11' Aries it will create a temporary Grand Square and massive, sudden alterations in expressions....

When T Pluto gets to 18' in few years there will be *massive transformations* to make or break.

[JayM]

Hi Everyone

On top of what has been said pisces is also the AC and the rulers (jup or neptune, if you use traditional rulers or otherwise) are involved in these squares, so Im not sure how this is affecting the AC (your best foot forward).

[Ixaee]

Originally Posted by Lin

LOOK at all those squares to the Moon.
Chances are her mother is a depressive and has had suicidal thoughts.
Very often depression is familial and these are the negatives passed down from generation to generation.
LIN

I have 4 squares to my moon too, and can say that this is true! My mother is/was very suicidal and schizophrenic.

Ive also battled depression in my life... but I find that I handle these strong aspects much better as I age.

[Rachna94]

@R4VEN, her Saturn transit has been difficult. And yes, she is always intellectualising her life situations. Rather than feeling the low mood, she'll try to analyse the "what, why and hows" "what did she do to get this" n all. Day by day, her tendencies are getting difficult to control and if gets worse any further, I believe she'll reach a point where she'll either overcome it completely or get blown away.

@Mantis Religiosa, yes, she's still very young, in her teens. And thank you so much for all that insight and describing how you coped up with it. Her depression mainly finds its roots from her relationship with her parents and siblings. Being Venus in Pisces, she has a love for harmony which never really existed in her family. Then the stagnancy in her life since Dec 2010 has been majorly tough for her. Like the saying goes "Idle mind is devil's home".

@LIN, her depression doesn't seem to be familial rather circumstantial. She has a very tough relationship with her mother, who is kinda cold or selfish in her words. Not only her mother but with the whole familly especially her siblings who don't even talk to her. So it will be inappropriate to say her mother has had suicidal thoughts, as she's a particularly self concerned lady and this gals says, that it seems like her mother never realised that she is a mother.

@Astrologer50, thank you for your input. I am a modern astrologer too. I practice KP system of astrology. I use equal houses. and yes, Moon and Jupiter both move to 8th house. I am attaching a chart with equal house system. The handle planet of her chart itself is retrograde. This should be a major challenge in focussing energies, I guess. Can you elaborate a little on Uranus and pluto transits and their effect, becaouse if situations get tougher than this, her life will be miserable.

Regarding problems with women, I don't really see problems particularly with women but family issues affecting her mind a lot more than they should.

[astrologer50]

@LIN, her depression doesn't seem to be familial rather circumstantial. She has a very tough relationship with her mother, who is kinda cold or selfish in her words. Not only her mother but with the whole familly

Regarding problems with women, I don't really see problems particularly with women but family issues affecting her mind a lot more than they should.

If you research 'just' the moon's aspect is would explain 90' of her psyche here..
my shortcut version -
moon square mercury = tension when communicating
moon square mars = bossy mother
moon quincux venus = whom she is attracted to (venus) may not fulfil her emotional and vice-versa
Moon conj Jupiter = goes over the top emotional
moon trine saturn = able to endure financial hardships/personal dignity
moon square uranus = need freedom, early break with mother and a divorce aspect
moon square neptune = illusions, confusions connected to mother, linked to eating disorders

jupiter square neptune = over expansion without thinking to much of consequences. mysterious illnesses quite possible.over generous to wrong people
jupier square uranus = action without due thought, cut nose off to spite face

mars quincunx saturn = suffer in relationships but couldn't do anything about it, and will poss never understand why****

mars retrograde being handle suggests not overtly display anger, aggression
and actions, all this is kept inside quite possibly unresolved. Therapy would be espec good for her

when T Uranus gets to 11' Aries it will create a temporary Grand Square and massive, sudden alterations in expressions....

hits in march 2014 this will prob last while as it will create a square to mars, angry temper tantrums or poss accidents, then square mercury, arguments, outburts. All connected to mother/women with opposition to moon and/or relationships

saturn in 12th is doing her no favours either and shows a father either missing or ineffectual in early childhood

Saturn in the 12th house
· Serve or suffer are the keynotes here and the individual can choose which way he will take: but choose he must. Always a subconscious wish to retreat.
· Craving for solitude. Great sensitivity.
· A deep seated selfishness has to be dissolved through suffering.
· These people need a sense of inner purpose and make good behind the scenes organisers. They often suffer from an inexplicable fear of authority or concern about the future, and should find a way to develop self‑confidence.
· Capable of bringing stability into other people’s lives, by helping and organising those less fortunate than yourself.
· Don’t like to acknowledge figures of authority (including parental)

[The Water-Bearer]

Well, as a person who is always still trying to understand Astrology, my answer may not be correct, but it could be true.

I noticed that her Pluto was in Scorpio, and interestingly enough, so is mine, and so is a couple of famous people out there like Kurt Cobain (though there are conspiracies suggesting he didn't commit suicide, but he definitely had suicidal thoughts.)

As a person with their Pluto in Scorpio myself, who *used* to have sucidial thoughts, all I could really say is that perhaps having our Pluto in Scorpio makes us have dark and unpleasant thoughts or feelings about our lives. I may be mistaken, some believe that Saturn (the planet that presents difficulties or challenges in our lives) is the key to understanding why people feel suicidal or get those thoughts, but for me, I believe it's all about the Pluto being in Scorpio.

I hope this gave you insight.

[R4VEN]

Given Pluto was in Scorpio for 12-13 years - from late`83 to late`95 - it is unlikely a whole generation of people will be suicidal.

Pluto is a generational planet, possessed by millions of people. Mood is influenced chiefly by the personal planets and how they interact with the outer planets. Just one planet in a sign will not create something as devastating as what is described here.

[The Water-Bearer]

Thanks for clearing that up, and you're probably right.

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by The Water-Bearer

Well, as a person who is always still trying to understand Astrology, my answer may not be correct, but it could be true.

I noticed that her Pluto was in Scorpio, and interestingly enough, so is mine, and so is a couple of famous people out there like Kurt Cobain (though there are conspiracies suggesting he didn't commit suicide, but he definitely had suicidal thoughts.)

As a person with their Pluto in Scorpio myself, who *used* to have sucidial thoughts, all I could really say is that perhaps having our Pluto in Scorpio makes us have dark and unpleasant thoughts or feelings about our lives. I may be mistaken, some believe that Saturn (the planet that presents difficulties or challenges in our lives) is the key to understanding why people feel suicidal or get those thoughts, but for me, I believe it's all about the Pluto being in Scorpio.

I hope this gave you insight.

Pluto in scorpio is simply a 'generational' period where thousands and thousands were borns in same time period. So no I don't feel pluto is responsible here. It's far more likely to be Neptune

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by MantisReligiosa

uhmm..depression. This has nothing to do with astrology. I am sick of people who try to look for answers to medicalconditions in the chart.
Truth is depression can always be explained through basic psychology.
If this person has thoughts of suicide it means she has bottled up a lot of anger over a long period of time, and is coming close to a breaking point.
I've been there, about 3 years ago. She needs to either seek professional help, or talk to someone she can trust about her deepest feelings/thoughts.

depression can be seen in the natal chart and with transits, if someone natally has a saturn, neptune hard aspect for example. Now T Saturn is fast approaching a square to natal neptune, after being conj natal moon, which also can suggest financial hardships, broken friendships/relationships and wanting to withdraw sociallly.

This combination represents a war between the real and illusions. Practical methods may be thrown for a loop and you may be wondering what is real and what is imagined. Often what you imagine now, is not able to take on a practical reality now. The parts of your life that you need to feel secure, may not be dependable, making your feel vulnerable. It is best to try to simplify your life as much as possible. Avoid making any important decisions at this time.
http://www.astrology-x-files.com/tra...p-neptune.html

[Raquel]

Originally Posted by Ixaee

Moon square Mars + Neptune & Mercury opposite Mars in Cancer

Totally agree