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  #1  
Old 04-30-2011, 11:54 AM
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Re: An epiphany about horary

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Originally Posted by misskitty View Post
I am anxious about it because there are indicators in my progressed chart and transits that are pointing to a possible significant relationship that may be upcoming in my life.
Well, I've had a lot of relationships, most were insignificant, but a few were very significant, to the point I actually miss them, but they don't necessarily lead to marriage (and I don't interpret Secondary Progressions in that manner).

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Originally Posted by misskitty View Post
Can you recommend a good source to start learning how to delineate a natal using traditional techniques?
I'd start with Lily's Christian Astrology, because it is readily available, and it's free and it's in Adobe format and searchable (you can search a word to find a topic you want to review) and it's the most readable, even though it is in an archaic English vernacular.

Once you figure out Lily's conventions, it's pretty easy. It's confusing at first because he constantly mentions planets conjoined or conjunct. To Lily, a conjunction is any aspect (sextile, trine, square or opposition) except an actual conjunction as we know it. When he says "joined corporeally" or "joined corporeally by body" he's talking about an actual conjunction as we know it (meaning that the two Planets are in the same Sign and degree). And then "casting disposition" means any applying aspect (as we know them including conjunctions as we know them).

The principles are the same for all manner of charts. The Sun is masculine and represents the male figure: your son(s), your brother(s), your father, your husband, your current beau, male friends, male co-workers, male supervisors, any authority figure (including your employer), government employees, plus your reputation and standing in your community or amongst your peers in your career field, and your personal credit, plus life and strength.

The Moon is feminine and represents women in general, your sister(s), mother, wife, girlfriend, girl friends, all liquids (including oil), people who work with water, like the guy who trucks water out to your cistern (if you live in one of those parts of the country), sewage works, water workers, people who dispense liquid beverages, merchant marines, sailors, fishermen, etc, plus change and instability.

In Natal Charts, men look at the Moon, women look at Sun. The Sun Oriental from the Horizon, meaning in the 4th, 5th, 6th or 10th, 11th and 12th Houses indicates an early marriage, or marriage to a younger man. The Sun Occidental, in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 8th or 9th means a later marriage or marriage to someone older.

We don't look at the Moon in relation to the Horizon, rather we look at the Moon in relation to the Sun. A Conjunctional Moon, being in the 1st or 2nd Quarters is Oriental and means an early marriage or marriage to a younger woman. A Preventional Moon, in it's 3rd or 4th Quarter is Occidental, indicating marriage later in life or to an older woman.

My Moon is in the 3rd Quarter about to square Sun. I married late, and then later (and will marry later still).

Moon in a Bicorporeal or Prolific Sign or in applying aspect to two or more Planets indicates more than one marriage. My Moon is in Pisces (Bicorporeal AND Prolific) and is applying 1 to Sun and 3 to Jupiter and I have had two marriages.

The Moon not in a Bicorporeal or Prolific Sign and not in applying aspects with other Planets indicates one marriage.

For women, Sun in a Bicorporeal or Prolific Sign or in applying aspect to one or more Oriental Planets indicates more than one marriage.

If that is not the case, then most likely the Native will marry only once.

Men (ignoring the Sun) look at the Moon's applying aspects. That describes their wives. Women look at any Planet in aspect with Sun to describe their husbands.

Both men and women then look to Planets in aspect to Venus (applying). I'm very fortunate in that Moon applies only to Jupiter (Angular, Direct and in Pisces) and Venus (in Cancer) applies only to Moon and Jupiter. I really can't say anything bad about my wives. They were great cooks, good house-keepers, good with children, very economical, an employer's dream, and otherwise good people.

Men don't want to see Moon applying to Saturn, or Venus to Mars.

Women don't want to see Sun with Mars or Venus, or Venus with Saturn or Mars. Mercury, well Mercury is a Common Planet so it depends on which Mercury shows up in the chart.

Hermes' Time of Marriage Lot is ASC + Moon - Sun which is the same as the Lot of Fortune in a Day Chart, so if you have a Day Chart, you can direct the Lot of Fortune for marriage. If you have a Night Chart, you can direct the Lot of Spirit (which is the same).

Often in a Solar Return, the 7th House coming to the Ascendant indicates a potential for marriage. Contrary to modern astrology we put the Solar Return inside and the Natal Chart outside. For one thing, there's absolutely no mistake about which House comes to the Ascendant in the Natal Chart. You have to be careful, because what appears to be the SR Ascendant coming to the Ascendant of the Natal Chart might actually be the 6th House.

To find the Marriage Ruler (or Lord of Marriage or Significator of Marriage or Almuten of Marriage whatever you want to call it) we calculate the Planet that has the greatest amount of Dignity in those Chart Points related to marriage. For example, I'd use the 7th House Cusp (20 Tau), 7th House Ruler (Venus at 4 Can), Moon for Men/Sun for Women (Moon at 7 Pis), Lot of Marriage (I use Hermes' 13 Ari) and Ruler Lot of Marriage 28 Ari, plus Venus (for both Men & Women) 4 Can (again). Then you set up a crude table:

...............Sign.......Exaltation.......Sect Triplicity.......Term
20 Tau.. Venus... Moon............. Venus................ Jupiter
04 Can.. Moon.... Jupiter........... Mars.................. Mars
07 Pis....Jupiter... Venus............ Mars.................. Venus
13 Ari.... Mars...... Sun............... Sun.................... Venus
28 Ari.... Mars...... Sun............... Sun.................... Saturn
04 Can.. Moon..... Jupiter.......... Mars................... Mars

Now, is there any one Planet that has Dignity in all those points? No, but if there was, that would be the Marriage Ruler. If Mars had Dignity in the 7th House Cusp, he would fit the bill. If Jupiter had Dignity in Mars and the Lot of Marriage, he would be the Marriage Ruler.

We add up the points, and Mars being Sign Ruler twice, Triplicity Ruler 3 times and Term Ruler twice wins. Mars is the Significator of Marriage.

So, Mars is the Lord of Marriage (or Marriage Ruler). If one Planet did not have Dignity in all of those Chart Points, then I would add up the Planets to which had the most Dignity.

I'd also point out that Mars is in Sign and Joys in the 6th House, but unfortunately for me, the 6th House is injunct the 1st and 7th House (which says a lot).

Okay, I was married on October 9, 1986 at Vejle, Denmark. Beautiful town (and people). May 26, 1962 is 24 years, 4 months and 13 days.

I use Ptolemy's arcs and if you can figure out his nonsense, then I tip my hat to you. Fortunately, Placidus did, so tip your hat to him and using Placidus Semi-Arc and the latitudes of the Significator and Promissor, we find Mars the Marriage Ruler comes to the sextile of Sun by direct Primary Direction in Zodiac, when?

October 4, 1986 at age 24.36 years. When we find the Arc of Direction, we convert:

24.36 degrees is 24 years. The 0.36 we multiply by 12 [months] giving us 4.32 or 4 months -- June, July, August, taking us to September 26.

The 0.32 we multiply by 30.5 [days] and get 9.76 days, so September 26 plus 9 days is actually October 5th.

Anyone want to quibble over 4 days?

It's a lot work, but the results are satisfying, and it is about the results, right?

By the way, there are no transits to Natal or Progressed, and the Solar Return has the 11th House Cusp on the Ascendant (that would be a difficult chart to read unless you were also looking at Profections which show the Profected 1st House).

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[extract from http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=282587#post282587 - Moderator]

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  #2  
Old 04-30-2011, 06:46 PM
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Re: An epiphany about horary

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Originally Posted by Serendipity View Post
So women look at Sun and Venus and men look at Moon and Venus to describe the husband/wife?
Yes. In a woman's chart, look at aspects the Sun makes to Mars, Jupiter and Saturn (if any) and then Mercury and Venus to the Sun. After that, look at the aspects Venus makes (the only possible aspect with Mercury is a conjunction), and then blend those together.

Sun applying to Saturn he'll be steadfast, constant, good provider type, but if Venus also aspects Saturn, he'll also be one of those "Yes, dear..." "Whatever you say, honey..." kind of guys.

In a man's chart look at the Moon's applying aspects, then look at the aspects Venus makes, and blend those together.

The aspects themselves really aren't all that important, but the condition of the Planet and any kind of Reception is. As a woman you don't want Sun or Venus applying to Mars, but if that's the case, then you want so to see some kind of Reception, even if it is weak, and preferably, well, I don't want to say Mutual Reception because that might confuse people, but let's say a Mutual Reception between lesser dignities, like Mars in the Triplicity of the Sun, and Sun in the Term of Mars or something like that, and with Mars, it would be helpful if Sun was in sextile or trine rather than in square or opposition.

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Originally Posted by Serendipity View Post
And that's only applying aspects correct?
Correct. I mean if we looked at separating aspects then the divorce rate would be 99%.

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Originally Posted by Serendipity View Post
And this is traditional so we dont look at the outer planets.
No, we don't look at the outer Planets. My Moon is partile opposition to Pluto and 3 to a tine with Neptune. There was nothing Neptunian or Plutonian about my wives. Certain have the Outer Planets all in the same Signs, so that would be kind of silly; everyone would have like sort of like Stepford Wives (& Husbands)
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  #3  
Old 05-01-2011, 05:49 PM
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Re: An epiphany about horary

Quote:
Originally Posted by misskitty View Post
I don't think mine is all positive either Serendipity! Okay... this is all very new to me and is going to take me some time to absorb, but using these rules I can't see my first marriage in my chart. I got married young (at age 20). We were married for 12 years. My Sun is Occidental, which points more towards a late marriage or to someone older (he was same age as me).
That was the basic rundown.

Quote:
Which if the Sun were from the beginning of Aries up to the middle of Taurus, or from the middle of Leo up to the end of Virgo, or from the middle of Scorpio up to the middle of Aquarius, and the significator of marriage were oriental, the aforesaid will come to be in her youth, or with a young man.
In Traditional, you make judgments based on testimonies, and I know you've had to have seen dr. farr do this in Horary where this is a positive testimony, this is a negative testimony, and then he looks at the total of testimonies and makes the judgment based on the number of positive or negative testimonies.

So, you have one testimony, the Sun Occidental in the Chart, showing a late marriage or marriage to an older man, but you also have one testimony, the Sun in Aries and your marriage significator Venus in an Oriental quadrant, showing an early marriage or a marriage to a young man (or a man who has not past his prime).

You have a third testimony, Venus, the general significator of marriage Angular (in the 10th House), indicating an early marriage or marriage to a young man (I have Venus Occidental, but Mars the Marriage Ruler is in an Oriental quadrant).

So that's one testimony for a late marriage/marriage with an older man, and two testimonies for an early marriage/marriage to a young man, and so you would judge that you marry early (or to a young man).

We judge the same for children. We don't just look at the Cusp of the 5th House and say, "Oh, that's a Barren Sign so you won't have children" because that would be stupid. We look at the Cusps of the 1st, 5th and 11th Houses, then at the rulers of those Signs to see if they are Barren or Fruitful Planets, and then the Signs the rulers are in, and a few other things, and we make the judgment based on the overall testimonies, so someone with 3- testimonies and 8+ testimonies we would judge to have children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by misskitty View Post
I have one applying aspect to my Aries Sun, as Moon is Aquarius is applying a sextile from an Occidental house (7). This would indicate one marriage, correct?
Sun is in an applying aspect to Mars. Sun's Moiety Orb is 7.5 but his True Orb is 15 and Sun is applying to a sextile to Mars at 29 Aquarius. Now, in Horary, that aspect would never perfect, because Mars would change Signs, but we don't consider that in Natal.

You also have Mercury applying to the Sun. just 13 away, so that is two Planets in applying aspects with the Sun, and that indicates more than one marriage.

Also, the Sun in a Common or Movable Sign indicates more than marriage (no table dancing please).

Quote:
Originally Posted by misskitty View Post
My Venus has one applying aspect which is squaring Mars in Aquarius, also Occidental. Is this my divorce? My Venus is Oriental (10th house).
No, it's not your divorce. However, the Moon square Sun is a testimony of divorce (just as in my chart) and also no aspect between the Moon and Sun indicates divorce.

Divorce is not the only reason someone could have more than one marriage. The spouse could die, or abandon the family.

And Yes, you're on the right track. Since Venus is the Marriage Ruler (in addition to being the general significator of Marriage [& Love]) and is Oriental that is another testimony of marrying young, or marrying a young man (or many younger than you etc).

What I see in your Natal Chart is the likelihood of more than one marriage, the likelihood of divorce as the reason for more than one marriage and the Mars/Venus aspect would suggest your men may not be as affectionate as you want them (or need) to be.

Mars is in his own Term, but there's no reception at all (Venus is in Sign, Triplicity and the Term of Jupiter).

I notice Mars is in the 10th Sign from Venus, which is I think "Overcoming" but I don't know how that would apply here. That's an Hellenistic concept that got lost in the Middle Ages.

Venus is elevated above Mars, and I think the Sun as well, because by Whole Sign Venus is in the 10th Sign while Sun is in the 9th Sign (and House by Whole Sign).

That would suggest you would have the upper-hand in relationships and marriage in particular
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Addressing his pupil, Satyacharya said, "The science of Astrology is a great secret. It should be guarded with care. This sacred science of Astrology should never be taught to bad people. Nor should it be revealed to too many people and very frequently. It should be taught only to a few chosen disciples who really deserve and have the necessary qualifications."
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Old 06-23-2011, 11:08 AM
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Re: Marriage indicators in Horary

wow that was great
I followed it up to
Quote:

October 4, 1986 at age 24.36 years. When we find the Arc of Direction, we convert:

24.36 degrees is 24 years. The 0.36 we multiply by 12 [months] giving us 4.32 or 4 months -- June, July, August, taking us to September 26.

The 0.32 we multiply by 30.5 [days] and get 9.76 days, so September 26 plus 9 days is actually October 5th.

Anyone want to quibble over 4 days?

It's a lot work, but the results are satisfying, and it is about the results, right?
I was married 8 june 1985 age 20 and 3 months 24 days

Bob how do I finnish of this ? this is what i got so far



18 Taurus Venus
11 Aquarius Saturn
25 Aquarius Saturn
14 sag Jupiter
6 Pisces Jupiter
11 Aquarius Saturn
how do I calculate so i get the date that i married on please?
also what about a second marriage
what do we do here if you have time that is thanks
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:34 PM
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Re: Marriage indicators in Horary

which aspects to sun count? traditionally my sun has only aspects to the axis, but semisextile jupiter app, quinkux moon appl. (moon in pisces, I remember being fond of pisces.) I would count it, but only per feeling.
does translation count? I think mercury translate the sun to mars.


this is in the horary section but I figure out it is about natal aspects?

Last edited by positive; 06-28-2011 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 10-28-2011, 04:57 PM
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Re: Marriage indicators in Horary

Men don't want to see Moon applying to Saturn, or Venus to Mars.

Women don't want to see Sun with Mars or Venus, or Venus with Saturn or Mars. Mercury, well Mercury is a Common Planet so it depends on which Mercury shows up in the chart.


can you explain why?
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:44 PM
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Re: An epiphany about horary

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Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
In Natal Charts, men look at the Moon, women look at Sun. The Sun Oriental from the Horizon, meaning in the 4th, 5th, 6th or 10th, 11th and 12th Houses indicates an early marriage, or marriage to a younger man. The Sun Occidental, in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 8th or 9th means a later marriage or marriage to someone older.
Hmm....I would agree with this...My sun is in 9th house and I was 21 when I got married to an older guy. He was 30 back then...
I also have a friend, his sun is his 4th house. He is 38 and he was never married, but his ex gfs were always 10 years younger than him.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:09 PM
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Re: Marriage indicators in Horary

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Originally Posted by Angels View Post
good question
Men don't want to see Moon applying to Saturn, or Venus to Mars.

Women don't want to see Sun with Mars or Venus, or Venus with Saturn or Mars. Mercury, well Mercury is a Common Planet so it depends on which Mercury shows up in the chart.



Hhhmmm....I've been thinking about this but Moon with Saturn in a men's chart can describe a marriage that both partners can hide their emotions and tend to be a lonely marriage...Venus and Mars, Mars is traditionally planet of separation.
For women Sun applying to Mars could be an argumentative relationship, not pleasant one...Venus and Saturn could can be an aspect of divorce...
I could be wrong...!
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:24 PM
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Thumbs up Re: An epiphany about horary

Wow!! Such good info!!!

I have my sun in an intercepted 1h. In whole sign, it would put me in 2h. iam 30 and not even married once


Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
Well, I've had a lot of relationships, most were insignificant, but a few were very significant, to the point I actually miss them, but they don't necessarily lead to marriage (and I don't interpret Secondary Progressions in that manner).



I'd start with Lily's Christian Astrology, because it is readily available, and it's free and it's in Adobe format and searchable (you can search a word to find a topic you want to review) and it's the most readable, even though it is in an archaic English vernacular.

Once you figure out Lily's conventions, it's pretty easy. It's confusing at first because he constantly mentions planets conjoined or conjunct. To Lily, a conjunction is any aspect (sextile, trine, square or opposition) except an actual conjunction as we know it. When he says "joined corporeally" or "joined corporeally by body" he's talking about an actual conjunction as we know it (meaning that the two Planets are in the same Sign and degree). And then "casting disposition" means any applying aspect (as we know them including conjunctions as we know them).

The principles are the same for all manner of charts. The Sun is masculine and represents the male figure: your son(s), your brother(s), your father, your husband, your current beau, male friends, male co-workers, male supervisors, any authority figure (including your employer), government employees, plus your reputation and standing in your community or amongst your peers in your career field, and your personal credit, plus life and strength.

The Moon is feminine and represents women in general, your sister(s), mother, wife, girlfriend, girl friends, all liquids (including oil), people who work with water, like the guy who trucks water out to your cistern (if you live in one of those parts of the country), sewage works, water workers, people who dispense liquid beverages, merchant marines, sailors, fishermen, etc, plus change and instability.

In Natal Charts, men look at the Moon, women look at Sun. The Sun Oriental from the Horizon, meaning in the 4th, 5th, 6th or 10th, 11th and 12th Houses indicates an early marriage, or marriage to a younger man. The Sun Occidental, in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 8th or 9th means a later marriage or marriage to someone older.

We don't look at the Moon in relation to the Horizon, rather we look at the Moon in relation to the Sun. A Conjunctional Moon, being in the 1st or 2nd Quarters is Oriental and means an early marriage or marriage to a younger woman. A Preventional Moon, in it's 3rd or 4th Quarter is Occidental, indicating marriage later in life or to an older woman.

My Moon is in the 3rd Quarter about to square Sun. I married late, and then later (and will marry later still).

Moon in a Bicorporeal or Prolific Sign or in applying aspect to two or more Planets indicates more than one marriage. My Moon is in Pisces (Bicorporeal AND Prolific) and is applying 1 to Sun and 3 to Jupiter and I have had two marriages.

The Moon not in a Bicorporeal or Prolific Sign and not in applying aspects with other Planets indicates one marriage.

For women, Sun in a Bicorporeal or Prolific Sign or in applying aspect to one or more Oriental Planets indicates more than one marriage.

If that is not the case, then most likely the Native will marry only once.

Men (ignoring the Sun) look at the Moon's applying aspects. That describes their wives. Women look at any Planet in aspect with Sun to describe their husbands.

Both men and women then look to Planets in aspect to Venus (applying). I'm very fortunate in that Moon applies only to Jupiter (Angular, Direct and in Pisces) and Venus (in Cancer) applies only to Moon and Jupiter. I really can't say anything bad about my wives. They were great cooks, good house-keepers, good with children, very economical, an employer's dream, and otherwise good people.

Men don't want to see Moon applying to Saturn, or Venus to Mars.

Women don't want to see Sun with Mars or Venus, or Venus with Saturn or Mars. Mercury, well Mercury is a Common Planet so it depends on which Mercury shows up in the chart.

Hermes' Time of Marriage Lot is ASC + Moon - Sun which is the same as the Lot of Fortune in a Day Chart, so if you have a Day Chart, you can direct the Lot of Fortune for marriage. If you have a Night Chart, you can direct the Lot of Spirit (which is the same).

Often in a Solar Return, the 7th House coming to the Ascendant indicates a potential for marriage. Contrary to modern astrology we put the Solar Return inside and the Natal Chart outside. For one thing, there's absolutely no mistake about which House comes to the Ascendant in the Natal Chart. You have to be careful, because what appears to be the SR Ascendant coming to the Ascendant of the Natal Chart might actually be the 6th House.

To find the Marriage Ruler (or Lord of Marriage or Significator of Marriage or Almuten of Marriage whatever you want to call it) we calculate the Planet that has the greatest amount of Dignity in those Chart Points related to marriage. For example, I'd use the 7th House Cusp (20 Tau), 7th House Ruler (Venus at 4 Can), Moon for Men/Sun for Women (Moon at 7 Pis), Lot of Marriage (I use Hermes' 13 Ari) and Ruler Lot of Marriage 28 Ari, plus Venus (for both Men & Women) 4 Can (again). Then you set up a crude table:

...............Sign.......Exaltation.......Sect Triplicity.......Term
20 Tau.. Venus... Moon............. Venus................ Jupiter
04 Can.. Moon.... Jupiter........... Mars.................. Mars
07 Pis....Jupiter... Venus............ Mars.................. Venus
13 Ari.... Mars...... Sun............... Sun.................... Venus
28 Ari.... Mars...... Sun............... Sun.................... Saturn
04 Can.. Moon..... Jupiter.......... Mars................... Mars

Now, is there any one Planet that has Dignity in all those points? No, but if there was, that would be the Marriage Ruler. If Mars had Dignity in the 7th House Cusp, he would fit the bill. If Jupiter had Dignity in Mars and the Lot of Marriage, he would be the Marriage Ruler.

We add up the points, and Mars being Sign Ruler twice, Triplicity Ruler 3 times and Term Ruler twice wins. Mars is the Significator of Marriage.

So, Mars is the Lord of Marriage (or Marriage Ruler). If one Planet did not have Dignity in all of those Chart Points, then I would add up the Planets to which had the most Dignity.

I'd also point out that Mars is in Sign and Joys in the 6th House, but unfortunately for me, the 6th House is injunct the 1st and 7th House (which says a lot).

Okay, I was married on October 9, 1986 at Vejle, Denmark. Beautiful town (and people). May 26, 1962 is 24 years, 4 months and 13 days.

I use Ptolemy's arcs and if you can figure out his nonsense, then I tip my hat to you. Fortunately, Placidus did, so tip your hat to him and using Placidus Semi-Arc and the latitudes of the Significator and Promissor, we find Mars the Marriage Ruler comes to the sextile of Sun by direct Primary Direction in Zodiac, when?

October 4, 1986 at age 24.36 years. When we find the Arc of Direction, we convert:

24.36 degrees is 24 years. The 0.36 we multiply by 12 [months] giving us 4.32 or 4 months -- June, July, August, taking us to September 26.

The 0.32 we multiply by 30.5 [days] and get 9.76 days, so September 26 plus 9 days is actually October 5th.

Anyone want to quibble over 4 days?

It's a lot work, but the results are satisfying, and it is about the results, right?

By the way, there are no transits to Natal or Progressed, and the Solar Return has the 11th House Cusp on the Ascendant (that would be a difficult chart to read unless you were also looking at Profections which show the Profected 1st House).

Modern astrologers can eat their hearts out, and lest anyone do have doubts:



[extract from http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=282587#post282587 - Moderator]
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Old 06-06-2013, 10:41 PM
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Re: An epiphany about horary

Wow...so much info. I'm going to check my natal.

BOB, I have sun in 8th house with venus. Im either marrying late or someone older.

My natal is my avatar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
Well, I've had a lot of relationships, most were insignificant, but a few were very significant, to the point I actually miss them, but they don't necessarily lead to marriage (and I don't interpret Secondary Progressions in that manner).



I'd start with Lily's Christian Astrology, because it is readily available, and it's free and it's in Adobe format and searchable (you can search a word to find a topic you want to review) and it's the most readable, even though it is in an archaic English vernacular.

Once you figure out Lily's conventions, it's pretty easy. It's confusing at first because he constantly mentions planets conjoined or conjunct. To Lily, a conjunction is any aspect (sextile, trine, square or opposition) except an actual conjunction as we know it. When he says "joined corporeally" or "joined corporeally by body" he's talking about an actual conjunction as we know it (meaning that the two Planets are in the same Sign and degree). And then "casting disposition" means any applying aspect (as we know them including conjunctions as we know them).

The principles are the same for all manner of charts. The Sun is masculine and represents the male figure: your son(s), your brother(s), your father, your husband, your current beau, male friends, male co-workers, male supervisors, any authority figure (including your employer), government employees, plus your reputation and standing in your community or amongst your peers in your career field, and your personal credit, plus life and strength.

The Moon is feminine and represents women in general, your sister(s), mother, wife, girlfriend, girl friends, all liquids (including oil), people who work with water, like the guy who trucks water out to your cistern (if you live in one of those parts of the country), sewage works, water workers, people who dispense liquid beverages, merchant marines, sailors, fishermen, etc, plus change and instability.

In Natal Charts, men look at the Moon, women look at Sun. The Sun Oriental from the Horizon, meaning in the 4th, 5th, 6th or 10th, 11th and 12th Houses indicates an early marriage, or marriage to a younger man. The Sun Occidental, in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 8th or 9th means a later marriage or marriage to someone older.

We don't look at the Moon in relation to the Horizon, rather we look at the Moon in relation to the Sun. A Conjunctional Moon, being in the 1st or 2nd Quarters is Oriental and means an early marriage or marriage to a younger woman. A Preventional Moon, in it's 3rd or 4th Quarter is Occidental, indicating marriage later in life or to an older woman.

My Moon is in the 3rd Quarter about to square Sun. I married late, and then later (and will marry later still).

Moon in a Bicorporeal or Prolific Sign or in applying aspect to two or more Planets indicates more than one marriage. My Moon is in Pisces (Bicorporeal AND Prolific) and is applying 1 to Sun and 3 to Jupiter and I have had two marriages.

The Moon not in a Bicorporeal or Prolific Sign and not in applying aspects with other Planets indicates one marriage.

For women, Sun in a Bicorporeal or Prolific Sign or in applying aspect to one or more Oriental Planets indicates more than one marriage.

If that is not the case, then most likely the Native will marry only once.

Men (ignoring the Sun) look at the Moon's applying aspects. That describes their wives. Women look at any Planet in aspect with Sun to describe their husbands.

Both men and women then look to Planets in aspect to Venus (applying). I'm very fortunate in that Moon applies only to Jupiter (Angular, Direct and in Pisces) and Venus (in Cancer) applies only to Moon and Jupiter. I really can't say anything bad about my wives. They were great cooks, good house-keepers, good with children, very economical, an employer's dream, and otherwise good people.

Men don't want to see Moon applying to Saturn, or Venus to Mars.

Women don't want to see Sun with Mars or Venus, or Venus with Saturn or Mars. Mercury, well Mercury is a Common Planet so it depends on which Mercury shows up in the chart.

Hermes' Time of Marriage Lot is ASC + Moon - Sun which is the same as the Lot of Fortune in a Day Chart, so if you have a Day Chart, you can direct the Lot of Fortune for marriage. If you have a Night Chart, you can direct the Lot of Spirit (which is the same).

Often in a Solar Return, the 7th House coming to the Ascendant indicates a potential for marriage. Contrary to modern astrology we put the Solar Return inside and the Natal Chart outside. For one thing, there's absolutely no mistake about which House comes to the Ascendant in the Natal Chart. You have to be careful, because what appears to be the SR Ascendant coming to the Ascendant of the Natal Chart might actually be the 6th House.

To find the Marriage Ruler (or Lord of Marriage or Significator of Marriage or Almuten of Marriage whatever you want to call it) we calculate the Planet that has the greatest amount of Dignity in those Chart Points related to marriage. For example, I'd use the 7th House Cusp (20 Tau), 7th House Ruler (Venus at 4 Can), Moon for Men/Sun for Women (Moon at 7 Pis), Lot of Marriage (I use Hermes' 13 Ari) and Ruler Lot of Marriage 28 Ari, plus Venus (for both Men & Women) 4 Can (again). Then you set up a crude table:

...............Sign.......Exaltation.......Sect Triplicity.......Term
20 Tau.. Venus... Moon............. Venus................ Jupiter
04 Can.. Moon.... Jupiter........... Mars.................. Mars
07 Pis....Jupiter... Venus............ Mars.................. Venus
13 Ari.... Mars...... Sun............... Sun.................... Venus
28 Ari.... Mars...... Sun............... Sun.................... Saturn
04 Can.. Moon..... Jupiter.......... Mars................... Mars

Now, is there any one Planet that has Dignity in all those points? No, but if there was, that would be the Marriage Ruler. If Mars had Dignity in the 7th House Cusp, he would fit the bill. If Jupiter had Dignity in Mars and the Lot of Marriage, he would be the Marriage Ruler.

We add up the points, and Mars being Sign Ruler twice, Triplicity Ruler 3 times and Term Ruler twice wins. Mars is the Significator of Marriage.

So, Mars is the Lord of Marriage (or Marriage Ruler). If one Planet did not have Dignity in all of those Chart Points, then I would add up the Planets to which had the most Dignity.

I'd also point out that Mars is in Sign and Joys in the 6th House, but unfortunately for me, the 6th House is injunct the 1st and 7th House (which says a lot).

Okay, I was married on October 9, 1986 at Vejle, Denmark. Beautiful town (and people). May 26, 1962 is 24 years, 4 months and 13 days.

I use Ptolemy's arcs and if you can figure out his nonsense, then I tip my hat to you. Fortunately, Placidus did, so tip your hat to him and using Placidus Semi-Arc and the latitudes of the Significator and Promissor, we find Mars the Marriage Ruler comes to the sextile of Sun by direct Primary Direction in Zodiac, when?

October 4, 1986 at age 24.36 years. When we find the Arc of Direction, we convert:

24.36 degrees is 24 years. The 0.36 we multiply by 12 [months] giving us 4.32 or 4 months -- June, July, August, taking us to September 26.

The 0.32 we multiply by 30.5 [days] and get 9.76 days, so September 26 plus 9 days is actually October 5th.

Anyone want to quibble over 4 days?

It's a lot work, but the results are satisfying, and it is about the results, right?

By the way, there are no transits to Natal or Progressed, and the Solar Return has the 11th House Cusp on the Ascendant (that would be a difficult chart to read unless you were also looking at Profections which show the Profected 1st House).

Modern astrologers can eat their hearts out, and lest anyone do have doubts:



[extract from http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=282587#post282587 - Moderator]

Last edited by Cancer7; 06-07-2013 at 12:01 AM.
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  #11  
Old 06-07-2013, 12:04 AM
Cancer7 Cancer7 is offline
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Re: Marriage indicators in Horary

I have sun and venus in 8th, so that is divorce? Ive never married
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Originally Posted by Angels View Post
You are right btw...I have got both aspects... Venus sat...already divorced...
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Old 07-22-2013, 02:09 AM
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Re: Marriage indicators in Horary

It's been a couple years since Bob has been on this thread. I would like to know as well if minor applying aspects count. Also, once you have added up all the Rulers, Exalt, Sect, Term, etc, what if you have the same number for more than one planet? Jupiter, Venus, and Mercury all add up to 5 points each in my chart. I assume one would take the most dignified planet by house and sign? In my case it would be Mercury in Aquarius in the 11th house, then look at applying aspects Mercury makes. It applies to Saturn and I have never been married.
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Old 07-22-2013, 03:31 AM
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Re: Marriage indicators in Horary

Some of this is a bit confusing... I'm eying to get it...

I have
Leo sun applying to Leo mars. 9 orb conjunct
My sun is applying to
In house 6
Leo mars 9 orbs.
Leo moon 2 orbs
Gem Saturn
Can Venus. (Semi sextile) not sure if counts

No aspects from Saturn/Venus

Quote:
In Natal Charts, men look at the Moon, women look at Sun. The Sun Oriental from the Horizon, meaning in the 4th, 5th, 6th or 10th, 11th and 12th Houses indicates an early marriage, or marriage to a younger man. The Sun Occidental, in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 8th or 9th means a later marriage or marriage to someone older
.

My planets are in h6, I married later..
I married 3 weeks before more 28th bday. He's 6 years older than me.

But when you say "married" would living together count as married?
I was living with someone at a very early age.

I'm wondering about a second marriage... How to tell what type of person this will be
__________________
ASC = 13PISCES
SUN = 16 LEO
MOON = 14 LEO
MERCURY = 14 LEO
MARS = 26LEO
VENUS = 2 CAN
==============


Last edited by Lion o ness; 07-22-2013 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 07-22-2013, 04:09 AM
Cancer7 Cancer7 is offline
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Re: Marriage indicators in Horary

Natal is more complicated that horary.

I guess I will marry someone older or I will marry later in life according to the rules.

I have sun in 8th house with venus
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Old 09-27-2013, 09:42 PM
Clinton Soule Clinton Soule is offline
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Re: Marriage indicators in Horary

Vista asked:

Quote:
I would like to know as well if minor applying aspects count. Also, once you have added up all the Rulers, Exalt, Sect, Term, etc, what if you have the same number for more than one planet? Jupiter, Venus, and Mercury all add up to 5 points each in my chart. I assume one would take the most dignified planet by house and sign? In my case it would be Mercury in Aquarius in the 11th house, then look at applying aspects Mercury makes.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/vi...d6217c75856f7b

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects.html

http://www.horary.com/sward/sward5.html

Quote:
The major and minor categories of aspects derive from the innovative work of Johannes Kepler. Previously only the sextile, square, trine and opposition were allowable aspectual relationships. The conjunction is not strictly an aspect since this is a bodily joining of two or more sets of planetary characteristics, but generally included under this heading.
All earlier authorities had taught that the signs themselves had to be in relationship for an aspect to hold good. Aspects had to divide exactly into 360 degrees, automatically disallowing those from signs disjunct from the ascendant. This had changed somewhat by medieval times to allow the so-called dissociate aspect, where planets are in aspect but their signs are not.
The traditional method, as currently practiced, derives mainly from the orthodox system of the Renaissance period. Its leading practitioner was William Lilly and apart from one instance (a semisextile), Lilly used the major aspects exclusively in his horary instruction and judgements. He used the minor aspects quite widely for nativities, but only as points to which directions were made to ascertain future events.
Vista, as you study CA, you'll find Lilly mentions Kepler's aspects yet only in his 6th house queries does he use the note the 45 degree and the 135 degree.

There is a thread on this on skyscript yet I'm searching for it for you presently!
.
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