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Degree Symbols Discuss your experiences with all symbol systems based on astrological degrees in the chart (i.e., Sabian Symbols, Kozminsky Symbols, etc.): the symbols for the transiting Sun and Moon and the events of your life, the symbols of your natal chart...


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Old 05-13-2011, 08:16 PM
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11 12' 10" Degrees Libra - Almost Critical 13th degree

Anaeretic? I got this in a horary for the Quesited in a love question. He's Saturn Rx. Does this mean he's about to change his mind on me and not want to start a relationship?

Do I read it as this?

12 degrees Libra is "Miners Are Surfacing From A Deep Coal Mine."

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Old 05-14-2011, 03:46 AM
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Re: 11 12' 10" Degrees Libra - Almost Critical 13th degree

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagiCap View Post
Anaeretic? I got this in a horary for the Quesited in a love question. He's Saturn Rx. Does this mean he's about to change his mind on me and not want to start a relationship?

Do I read it as this?

12 degrees Libra is "Miners Are Surfacing From A Deep Coal Mine."
[isn't this about exactly where Saturn is at this time?]
I don't know Horary, so I don't use it. I have never heard anyone applying Sabians to Horary.
I suggest using a Sabian Oracle. I only use real playing cards.
Ask in this Fashion; If I proceed with factor 'X' what does the result symbolize. If I don't proceed with factor 'X' what does the result symbolize.
Apply as many options [factors] that you wish to check.
Here's a link to a post of mine on how to use a regular deck of cards for this technique.
http://actastrology.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8
I'm sorry I haven't anything else to suggest.
ptv.
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:13 AM
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Re: 11 12' 10" Degrees Libra - Almost Critical 13th degree

Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
[isn't this about exactly where Saturn is at this time?]
I don't know Horary, so I don't use it. I have never heard anyone applying Sabians to Horary.
I suggest using a Sabian Oracle. I only use real playing cards.
Ask in this Fashion; If I proceed with factor 'X' what does the result symbolize. If I don't proceed with factor 'X' what does the result symbolize.
Apply as many options [factors] that you wish to check.
Here's a link to a post of mine on how to use a regular deck of cards for this technique.
http://actastrology.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8
I'm sorry I haven't anything else to suggest.
ptv.
thank you, Sir! I really appreciate his. Can't wait to read it all.

What you described sounds like it would perfectly for the things that are nagging me right now and what I need to know. I am basically wondering how to proceed - with two very different extremes in mind. This is great!

And yes, PTV, I've read many delineations where horary astrologers have applied Sabians to their charts. I even saw one that really delved into all the signifactors of the chart and only did that. It was really descriptive of the situation. I'll try to find it for you.
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Last edited by SagiCap; 05-14-2011 at 04:30 AM.
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:16 AM
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Re: 11 12' 10" Degrees Libra - Almost Critical 13th degree

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
Based on my understanding of degrees and degree areas, this position is too far away to consider it connected with either the 12th or 13 degree of that sign; I would say "no" to your question about his changing his mind, at least as based on the information regarding the degrees you mentioned.
Further, the 11th degree of Libra is neither a pitted degree nor an elevated one, and it is a bright degree (auspicious degree) of Libra.
Symbolically, 11Libra12 corresponds to the 14th Major Arcana Tarot symbol, Tmeperance (interpreted upright)-nothing negative there either...
Thank you. I had been taught to read them like this:

Anything past a clean 11 degrees, ie: 11 10' 15" would be read as the next symbol which is 12. Is this incorrect?

I love the rest of the info you shared. Pfew! It's been a long and ardous ride with this guy.....but it seems to be panning out nicely lately. We shall see.
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:18 AM
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Re: 11 12' 10" Degrees Libra - Almost Critical 13th degree

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagiCap View Post
thank you, Sir! I really appreciate his. Can't wait to read it all.

The way you described is right now absolutely perfect for the things that are nagging me and what I need to know. I am basically wonder how to proceed - with two very different extremes in mind. This is great!

And yes, PTV, I've read many delineations where horary astrologers have applied Sabians to their charts. I even saw one that really delved into all the signifactors of the chart and only did that. It was really descriptive of the situation. I'll try to find it for you.
That would be way cool. I'm eager to look into this!
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:57 PM
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Re: 11 12' 10" Degrees Libra - Almost Critical 13th degree

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagiCap View Post
Thank you. I had been taught to read them like this:

Anything past a clean 11 degrees, ie: 11 10' 15" would be read as the next symbol which is 12. Is this incorrect?

I love the rest of the info you shared. Pfew! It's been a long and ardous ride with this guy.....but it seems to be panning out nicely lately. We shall see.
I don't know where Dr. Farr is coming from...11* 10' 15" is the 12th degree of any Sign.
...the degrees meld one into the next...thus it is in meaning with that degree symbolism before and after.
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Last edited by piercethevale; 05-17-2011 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 05-18-2011, 04:35 AM
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Re: 11 12' 10" Degrees Libra - Almost Critical 13th degree

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
You could call it the 12th degree, if you count 0 degrees as the first degree; problem here is in sign degree numeration: the ancients did not have a concept of 0, so in all their numerations signs began at 1 (degree) and ended at 30 degrees; later-and also using the sign degree numeration now in almost universal application-signs start at 0 degrees and end at 29degrees59minutes59seconds-they do not start at 1 and end at 30. Now, truly 0 degrees is the FIRST degree of each sign, but its numeration is NOT 1, it is 0: hence much confusion when looking at literature where they used signs as from 1 to 30 degrees, compared with the sign degree numeration now in universal use. The original Sabian Symbols were allocated to the degrees based on sign numeration going from 1 to 30 (same with the Charubel and Sepharial symbol systems) Well, degree 1 is now 0 degrees, degree 2 is now 1 degree, and degree 30 is now degree 29, in the common sign numeration we use today.
...so, indeed 11:10 is the 12th old-style numeration degree, and the Sabian Symbol for old-style numeration degree 12 is what applies, but today we refer to this degree as being in the 11 th degree of the sign , NOT in 12th degree!
WE?...Dr. You were born in the 1900s'...do you call that the 19th century?
I was born in 1953...the 20th century, not the 19th century. I was born May 6th of that year does that mean I'm in my 58th year? NO, of course not, I'm in my 59th year.
There is no such thing as a 'Zero' degree except on a thermometer...maybe that's why you are confused...? In the Zodiac there is no 0* 00' 00"...that would be a ZERO degree if it existed...but it doesn't...the instant you've gone into the next sign in progression, say from Aries to Taurus, you are in the 1st degree of Taurus...
I'm a bit shocked that someone that claims to be a man of science* would issue the statement you've just posted.
Every Astrologer I know that is considered to be of a most highly respectable reputation reads and numerates the Zodiac as I have explained it above.
Also, the enumeration of the signs ends at 30* 00' 00". and not at 29* 59' 59". The following sign begins at 00* 00' 01" [actually it begins before that but it is rounded up to the whole second of a degree as it would be a momentous task to have to constantly write it as thus: 00* 00' 00.ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooo...................................1"]

[personal comment removed - Moderator]
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Last edited by piercethevale; 05-18-2011 at 10:24 AM. Reason: change isn't to instant & explain the enumeration.
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Old 05-18-2011, 05:00 AM
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Re: 11 12' 10" Degrees Libra - Almost Critical 13th degree

Wow, what sychronicity. I clicked of this forum and went to my FB page and noticed a post at Lynda Hill's page.
Here's what a friend of Hers said: [posted]

" I have to post and copy that. Like Mark Twain I'm a Sagittarius and I've come to realize that the most unhappy person in any given room in the Universe is the 'truthteller.' "


ps. It was in reply to a quote that Lynda took from Mark Twain
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Old 05-18-2011, 09:03 AM
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Re: 11 12' 10" Degrees Libra - Almost Critical 13th degree

All

I've removed the personal comments and attacks. This only serves to enflame situations when we try to force our opinions on each other, can we please just let this go now. Please refrain from further attacks or I will close the thread.

Thanks
NR
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Old 05-19-2011, 05:23 AM
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Re: 11 12' 10" Degrees Libra - Almost Critical 13th degree

I publicly apologize to the forum and especially Dr. Farr. I let my emotional self get the better of me and insulted Dr. Farr, with uncalled for remarks and insulted SagiCap, the Forum and all its members by not behaving and conducting myself with decorum nor as a gentleman.
Dr. Farr, I apologize and hope that we can once again freely share our respective knowledge together once again in common cause for the betterment of all.
Sincerely, David Mastry, aka piercethevale
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Old 05-19-2011, 05:46 AM
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Re: 11 12' 10" Degrees Libra - Almost Critical 13th degree

Now THAT'S a BIG MAN!
And if my tone was offensive to you, please accept my apology!
Many of us have strong opinions and beliefs about a variety of considerations which are very important to us. It is easy to get offended when those are challenged, sometimes even when they only appear to be challenged: furthermore, people like you and I, who have more unusual outlooks than the conventionally accepted, are subject to questionings and doubtings (of our ideas and experiences) more frequently than those who hold more generally accepted ideas, methods, and so on. So, perhaps, we get on the defensive a bit more than other more conventionally-oriented AW members do. You and I have different ideas about a lot of things, but we also share many similar concepts as well; and I'll say right now that many of your ideas make a great deal of sense to me, from my perspective.
Sincerely,
Richard L. Farr
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Old 05-19-2011, 06:12 AM
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Re: 11 12' 10" Degrees Libra - Almost Critical 13th degree

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
Now THAT'S a BIG MAN!
And if my tone was offensive to you, please accept my apology!
Many of us have strong opinions and beliefs about a variety of considerations which are very important to us. It is easy to get offended when those are challenged, sometimes even when they only appear to be challenged: furthermore, people like you and I, who have more unusual outlooks than the conventionally accepted, are subject to questionings and doubtings (of our ideas and experiences) more frequently than those who hold more generally accepted ideas, methods, and so on. So, perhaps, we get on the defensive a bit more than other more conventionally-oriented AW members do. You and I have different ideas about a lot of things, but we also share many similar concepts as well; and I'll say right now that many of your ideas make a great deal of sense to me, from my perspective.
Sincerely,
Richard L. Farr
:j oyful:
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:42 AM
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Re: 11 12' 10" Degrees Libra - Almost Critical 13th degree

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagiCap View Post
Anaeretic? I got this in a horary for the Quesited in a love question. He's Saturn Rx. Does this mean he's about to change his mind on me and not want to start a relationship?

Do I read it as this?

12 degrees Libra is "Miners Are Surfacing From A Deep Coal Mine."
SagiCap, hello

The originator of the Sabian Symbols, Marc Edmund Jones, gave the following wording for Libra 12: Miners emerging from a mine. Here's a little bit of background on those words that might shed light on the question:

A noun mine has three relevant definitions:

* An excavation in the earth from which ore or minerals can be extracted
* A deposit of ore or minerals in the earth or on its surface
* An abundant supply or source of something valuable

As a verb mine refers to practice of laying explosives, particularly “old tactic of tunneling under enemy fortifications to blow them up.”

The verb emerge descends from the Indo-European root mezg-1, “to dip, plunge.” Other derivatives of this root include merge, emerge, immerse, submerge, merganser, and demersal.

So right there we have three words--the three key words of the symbol--all emphasizing the same thing--a going down under. But the word emerge even more strongly emphasizes the idea of coming back up from down under. Combined with the meaning of mine as a noun, we then have the picture of someone who has perhaps dug deep or just looked deep inside himself, found something valuable, and is bringing it back up to the surface and into the light of day.

There is, of course, a much less benign interpretation, but I prefer not to dwell as much on negatives ;-)

==sdh3
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