|
Re: What is our problem?
Hi, Petal:
Rahu's and ChironGirl's interpretations are spot on in my opinion. I would also like to point out some other very potent contacts which, in my experience, have been extremely reliable indicators of that "I can't quit you, baby" feeling we sometimes share with another J
Before I do that, though, I first want to underline what ChironGirl said about Moon/Mars contacts. They stir some especially heady ingredients into the pot: it's emotions+physicality, and they usually produce a knee-jerk visceral reaction. The hard contacts (con, squ, opp) are harder to deal with in the long term, and so your thoughts about it being a sore point are likely dead on, as well. This has shown up so many times in chart interps I’ve done where the individuals just couldn't keep their hands off one another. Thinking about my personal experience, I once had a relationship with a man whose Moon was exactly sextile my Mars (0'00" !) and my Moon was less than a degree from exact trine of his Mars. He could turn me on just looking at me, while I could do the same to him. And we were each quite aggressive about initiating action on these feelings.
Of course, with relationships that are significant--and clearly this is one of those, as it has produced a child, has gone on for a few years, and has concerned you enough to ask advice--there are many more indicators that, when synthesized together, begin to tell a theme. Rahu's composite interpretation certainly spelled out the difficulties quite well. ChironGirl was also quite right about the difficult Mercury/Sun/Moon contacts. So, to get to your question…why can’t you two just be done with each other (in that way, at least)?
Pluto and Neptune
Well, first let’s note that ChironGirl was also right about the powerful role Pluto plays in any synastrical comparison; there’s a reason all those Scorpio types are so magnetic! (Pluto rules Scorpio). Any time you see someone’s Pluto contacting someone else’s personal planet (Sun, Moon, Merc, Venus, Mars), Chiron, or an angle (Asc, Desc, IC, MC), the words “obsession” and/or “intense” should leap to mind. And if that personal planet happens to be a luminary (Sun or Moon), the reaction is more pronounced. ChironGirl is also correct when she states that the Pluto person has a bit of an upper hand. Your Pluto is not only opposition his Moon, his Pluto is sextile your Sun. You both have a striking effect on the other.
Neptune is also confusing things here, too. Rahu pointed out the difficulties shown in the composite chart, and ChironGirl mentioned his Venus/Neptune conj in your fifth house. Have you ever looked at the planet Neptune? Like the other large planets in our solar system, it’s surface is gassy and cloudy-looking. But other planets give some indication of “personality”: Jupiter is supersized and has colored bands, Saturn has its rings, and Uranus rolls on its side rather than spinning vertically on its axis; you have some idea where these planets “stand,” as it were. Neptune is just…well, non-committal as Hell, leaving you to imagine what’s under the surface: is that a diamond at the bottom of the pool? Or is it just quartz? It could be either one, and sometimes it is the diamond; if you don’t dive in, you’ll never know. That’s the allure of Neptune. We are left to assume what we will, and we usually see what we want to see. We’ll fantasize and idealize, and—should that characterization be allowed to go on long enough—it can be very difficult to dissuade ourselves of that notion, even when presented with indisputable evidence to the contrary. Your guy’s Venus/Neptune conjunction (Idealized Love, Idealized Beauty) in your 5th house has you seeing him as Mr. Sensitive Loverboy (at least, at first). If instead that Venus/Neptune were in your, say, 10th house, then he might be able to easily get you to buy into his pyramid-get-rich-quick scheme. But it’s not in the Tenth. It’s in your 5th house of romance/pleasure/self-expression, and you have had little resistance when he paints a very romantic picture with his words and/or actions. But wait! There’s more! :-) Your Sun and Mercury (ego/lifeforce and thought process, respectively) are each trine his Neptune; as well, his Neptune trines your Asc. That Sun/Merc conjunction of yours in your 1st House (along with his Neptune trining your Asc), and ruling, respectively, your 2nd and 12th houses, adds a dose of making you feel quite accepted at not only at face value (1st house/Asc), but also makes you feel that your fantasies and dreams (merc ruling 12th house) are met with acceptance by him, are beautiful to him. Your 2nd house, denoting what you consider valuable—including your self-worth—is also affected through the Sun’s rulership. So, let’s see…Identity, Self-Worth, your sweetest fantasies…and even those nightmares and subconscious fears that stay buried in the 12th house alongside those fantasies: for you, he seems to be looking at all of those things through rose-colored glasses, which may or may not actually be the case. That’s pretty difficult to resist, and even after you've been disappointed, it's hard to forget. To be fair, it probably is the case sometimes, maybe even most times (it’s hard to say without looking deeper at his chart); but, like Neptune, that part of him can be a bit nebulous and unreliable. He may decide in any given moment that you are, in fact, just quartz—only to turn around a day, week, or months later and declare his certainty of your jewel brilliance.
Midpoints, Angles, and Nodal Axis
I have found these contact measurements in synastry to be extraordinarily strong. Depending on the planets/points involved, they can denote a relationship which is quite lasting, even if the intensity should vary over time.
In the methodology I use here, I refer to Noel Tyl’s work. While I do not agree with everything he puts forth, I must say that—truly without exception, in my experience—his work regarding the Midpoints, Angles, and Nodal Axis has absolutely and unequivocally played out. In my interpretations and my own personal experience, these types of contacts are powerfully felt by both individuals. It is important to note here that, regarding the sensitive Midpoints, Angles, and Nodal Axis, it’s not the type of contact that is important—it is merely that a hard contact is made, and that the orbs be kept tight—no more than +/- 2-1/2 degrees. Along with the con, opp, and square, Tyl includes the quindecile (165 degrees) as an important hard aspect for these measurements. Again, my experience has borne this out. I would be very interested to know how this methodology has worked for others.
Any time I have done a synastry interpretation where the personal planets (esp the luminaries), Chiron, Saturn, and/or Pluto of one person were conjunct the angles of the other, there is, again, a strong, gut-level reaction to one another. The planets and angles involved denote the feel of the connection. We’ve already discussed the personal planets, Chiron, and Pluto; Saturn, as I think both Rahu and ChironGirl pointed out, carries a sense of seriousness with it, and can be something of a wet blanket; this can be a separative sort of contact, although it is extremely common for Composite Saturn to show up in the Composite 7th house of relationships that last.
Referring specifically to your charts, you have that Moon-Pluto opposition of yours directly on top of his MC/IC axis. To be honest, I can only guess how that might play out, as I don’t believe I have seen it before in my interpretations (though I’m sure it’s not unheard of). I guess I would take this to mean something like “you inspire in him an intense (obsessive?) emotion (Pluto-Moon) that affects him in a fundamental way (IC), and which is difficult for him to hide(MC).” For angle contacts, the attributes of the planet(s) seem to play out through the entire axis of the angle—after all, your Pluto is conj his IC, but it is also opposite his MC; and vice versa with your Moon. Some others on this site may have their own interpretations, and which also may be better than mine J
You also have your Saturn = his Sun/Moon Midpoint (again, the type of hard contact is not important here, so we simply put an “=” ). As with the angles, house placements, etc, both individuals feel midpoint contacts, it’s just that the effect depends on which person’s chart carries which planet or point. In this case, we’re talking about Saturn, and Saturn is serious. This would, I think, contribute to both pulling you together and breaking you apart. This contact indicates that you would definitely be drawn to one another—there’s something “karmic” or “past life”, if you will, about Saturn and relationships; often, each finds that the other person seems immediately familiar, which is a common theme with Sun/Moon midpoint, nodal, and vertex contacts. But Saturn is just so serious and “taskmaster-ish” that it can just seem to slam on the brakes—sometimes this is felt from the git-go, so to speak, but the awareness over time is a certainty. (Again, it is possible that there are many other things in a synastrical comparison that would mitigate this effect, or that may cause this even to be supportive in nature, but I do not see such contacts between the two of you.)
And just when you thought we were done with Neptune, here it comes again: his Neptune = your Sun/Moon. Do I need to describe it? J Sun/Moon midpoint contacts are usually felt immediately. In my personal experience, it smacks me right between the eyes. Bam! Personal planets have the longer-lasting and deeper effect, with the luminaries being the most potent. His Neptune, in your case, hits you at your core and you are thrilled as he paints all these beautiful pictures—and then often (though not always, depending on the rest of the contacts, both natally and synastrically), that is followed with disillusionment. As with the Saturn = Sun/Moon, we’re talking here about being drawn to one another, and then needing to get away from one another. And when we consider those two midpoint pictures together—Serious Saturn with the need for structure and Nebulous Neptune finding structure and limits to be absolute anathema—each hitting you right where you live…well, the result can run the gamut from a fairy tale painstakingly brought to life, to a disastrous tug-of-war that leaves you both confused and feeling betrayed by the other. And there’s nothing that says it can’t, given time, be both.
Finally, there is the Composite NN = S/M. I’m not sure what that would mean, except to say that…perhaps at the heart of your relationship is the coming together to fulfill some spiritual purpose? Perhaps your daughter? That NN is in the 5th house. Maybe someone else can take a crack at that. A sensitive point to a sensitive point is a difficult one to assess, yet I don’t want to dismiss it out of hand, and I’ve not seen anything that speaks to this that I can recall.
All in all, I think we’re talking about two people who have a strong need to come together, but there’s not a lot of support in anything that lasts. When the big build up leads to nothing to hold on to, it is quite natural to feel a sense of betrayal, each in the other, and—without some concrete wrongdoing to point—it’s difficult to figure out what’s gone wrong. Both of you are looking for fulfillment that you can’t find in the other, yet you cannot seem to end it; staying together under such circumstances always leads to lies and disillusionment. I think the thing to remember here is that, whatever wonderful things you see in one another and experience together, neither of you is the only source of it. There are others who will thrill you in a way that not only makes you feel just as wonderful, but moreso, more credibly, and with a firmer foundation. There is no higher high than bringing a dream to fruition, to actually make it happen; if there’s a “message” to your Saturn = his Sun/Moon, I think that’s it: “See how unrewarding it is to rely in ‘pie in the sky’ emotions? Go find someone with whom you can build.”
I hope there is some part of this that is helpful J
VG
PS: I find it interesting that one of you has a Sun in Leo and has an Eastern Hemisphere emphasis (Self focus) , and the other has a Sun in Libra with an emphasis on the Western Hemisphere (Other Focus). I could absolutely see that leading to each thinking the other is selfish and/or self-serving.
|
Linear Mode
