Let's Face It

[MaeMae]

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/23/se.../?ncid=webmail

Pluto in Capricorn is the time of the grim reaper.

In my opinion, and sadly so, the reality of American Humanity has come to this point. Time to face the music.

Capital Punishment and cleansing of the American myth of hope and tolerance is called for now.

Where is Pluto in US Chart?

[Mark]

The exact location depends on which chart you use, but the variation should only be a matter of minutes in any case. The chart presented by Astrology Weekly as the U.S. national chart (July 4, 1776, 5:10 pm LMT, Philadelphia, PA) has Pluto retrograde at 27° 32' Capricorn. Pluto tells the heart and home life of a generation. It tells us how we relate to ourselves, each other, and God. Those things, of course, being all one and the same.

[MaeMae]

Thank you, Mark, for that.

Certainly with all of the Aries (new beginnings/initiatives) energy abounding now - all in line to square US Pluto, it seems that the accent on America's "heart and home life" is now about dealing with this type of violence in strict, even unforgiving ways, as is Saturn and Pluto's mandate.

We are beginning to see what type of lessons Saturn is teaching us, as a country, as more and more of these atrocities occur.

Saturn squaring Pluto will be a clear indication of "time to set things straight" - but as Mars, Jupiter and eventually Saturn, all in Aries, approach the square to Pluto, it's almost as if members of American society are daring the country to "knock this chip off my shoulder" - in true violent and unconscienable ways.

I think the death penalty will be reinstated and acted upon in many states. Despite the previous premise and arguments that it might be carried out of those those falsely accused, I am of the opinion that, as I mentioned above, "The Grim Reaper" aspect of these two planets together, calls for it.

[isismagdalenne]

they dont need to carry out the death penalty on kids though. I just read the whole article and the link attatched to it that showed all the facebook exchanges. They were both getting incredibly antagonistic. He threatened to burn her house down. Now Im not saying that justifies a murder. Nothing does!.. and the people who did this HORRIBLE thing to this boy need to be punished, but I dont think by the death penalty. The kids who were the majority of the people involved (outside the dad that helped cover it up) are the result of the neglect of parents. Its sad. And they are their own persons and especially at the age they are now, but obviously they were never taught how to handle their own emotions and situations and let to run out of control with the gravest of ultimate results. The whole thing is sad.

[MaeMae]

Isis - your opinion is shared by many. In hoping to keep this in the astrological realm, I see this event, others like it, and those to come, as in indication of the greater Plutonic message - with Saturn riding shotgun.

I disagree with you, however, because this crime, if committed by any adult, would surely incite the death penalty. Personally, I don't see a 15 or 16 or 18 year old as a child - they have come to a point of collective knowledge of right vs. wrong and understanding of accountability (Saturn) and are able to choose whether they willingly defy it or accept it.

Saturn teaches lessons, Pluto destroys and re-creates. The over-the-top violence in America, person on person, surpasses nearly every other country or society on earth. As a country, we have surrendered to Neptune, I believe. I thank the stars for planets like Saturn and Pluto to counteract the deception, delusion and nullification of Neptune's "truth." The fact is, for a large and disproportionate sector of American youth, they have been devoid of parenting and consequences (Saturn). I think it is time to let Saturn carry out Pluto's charge, to raze and recreate what is bad. And obviated by the divide of Americans who feel sorry for "these children" (Neptune) and those like myself who feel they should be held accountable in the highest order (Saturn) - our cultural identity (Pluto) will require transformation if we want this to end. Even if it is in the harshest of ways.

I'll add, preemptively, in addressing those who draw extreme conclusions by saying that I am suggesting that anyone who commits a crime should be treated in this manner, no, that is not my argument. I am saying that when any human being willingly defies basic moral code and human right to life of others by killing them with such malicious intent, they have surrendered their own rights.

This is a very Plutonic issue, as I see it, and of course will yield the most volatile responses.

[waybread]

Pluto is kind of the cosmic surgeon. If we look at him historically in mundane astrology, he tends to destroy something that was decadent in the status quo. He often brings to light what was repressed or hidden. Resistance is futile.

In a negative sense, Pluto brings about sweeping, ruthless forces of change. In a positive sense, Pluto clears out the decay of the old order so that new growth and life can take its place.

Mark, thanks for pointing out that Pluto was also in Capricorn for the "birth" chart of the USA.

Capricorn very much symbolizes a traditional heirarchy, and an old order in which one can get to the top of the envelope and then even push the envelope. But Capricorn doesn't ask, "What envelope?" or say "I don't believe in envelopes." Capricorn has the energy of obedience to authority. When it is in a position of authority, it is, well, authoritarian.

What didn't work for the colonists in the 1770s were the old models of monarchy and colonial administration. Today we see the collapse of venerable financial institutions; and in the Middle East, a lot of revolutionary activity against dictators and dynasties.

Sadly, nasty murders and teen violence have been going on forever, independently of Pluto's position in the zodiac.