guessing the moon

[Gwenyhfair]

Hi,

I´m quite puzzled by a persons natal chart. I don´t know the exact hour of birth, only it´s during the night. Well night can be anything between let´s say 00 - 04 OR 22:30 - 23.59 during the same day! I played with the chart generator at this site nice feature, and it gave me of course 1 dgr difference for the sun, 2 dgr for venus, and the moon, quite impossible to say. Everything from 29 dgr cancer to 16 dgr leo.

Not to mention the houses...

What to do in such a situation? I read at "alwaysastrology" the descriptions of moon in leo and cancer. Well he´s very much like both!!

There´s something about this person that is very cancer, so I´ve been suggested his moon is really in the last degree of that sign, and that chart would give sun in fourth. He´s sag and he´s very attached to his mother (leo) at adult age. But the more I think about it, his moon could be in leo, even conj her sun.

So what do you think, is attachment to mother still in the 40´s more a "home-issue" ; fourth house and cancer or something related to his moon in mother´s sun sign? He sort of lives with his mother. He´s very attached to the home and where he has always lived. Not very saggy... and the sag in him suffers = problems. There are no other planets in cancer, but venus is in cap that is for sure.

[dr. farr]

In such a situation you could use the ancient technique of setting up a chart using the "duodenary of the Moon"-as long as you at least know the day (and year) in question.
For instructions on how to use the "duodenary of the Moon" for this purpose, see my post dated 11/18/10 in the thread entitled "Re: a true spiritual leader or a big swindler?", to be found in the Celebrity Astrology forum.

[Gwenyhfair]

thanks but I did not quite get that method.

I know the day and year but the hour is unknown and moon changes sign during the night . That´s the biggest problem. Cause if he was born in the day it would be leo for sure. But now there´s a slight chance he might be cancer. That would explain a lot. And also mid-leo is not likely cause then it would be trine natal sun and that would make a harmonious person, right? And that we are definitely not talking about here.

[Urawakai]

how could the moon change from Leo to Cancer? It doesn't go backwards (you said you know the day and that it's Leo that day, but on that same night it changes to Cancer, right? Or did I misunderstand what you said?)

[Gwenyhfair]

Maybe I did not make myself clear. He´s born in the night (he says). And in the first hour of that day,00 midnite until about 1.30 the moon is in cancer. So, there is a slight chance. If he was born on let´s say 23.55 that same day, moon would be far into leo

[dr. farr]

Would you post the date/place of the birth and I'll show you how to use the "Duodenary of the Moon" technique to erect the approximated natal chart. In doing so we take the time of sunset of the given date of birth and the time of sunrise (of the next day), total the hours and minutes in between, then divide this total by 2 to give us the approximate time during the night hours, for finding the place of the Moon at that time, its distance at that time from the Sun, and from this we proceed to the "Duodenary of the Moon" method for erecting the approximated natal horoscope (like the ancients did when they did not have the hour of birth to go on)

[MaeMae]

In pickles like this one, I go for "Moony" home to determine the Moon sign. Flair or cozy surroundings? Day to day reactions and emotional responses.
Generally speaking, Moon in Leo would take some silent, sullen offense and Moon in Cancer would be more likely to emote, unless there is an aspect to Saturn.

Moon Leo does big hugs, extra attention. Moon in Cancer is more sidestepping, showing you in subtle ways their nurture for you.

Some generalizations, but Moon ruled Cancer Moon seems like it would show itself pretty clearly.

Do meals have flair? Dinner is an elegant serving - Leo - or is it the dish that mom made - Cancer.

Pictures and reminders of family or pictures and reminders of adoration? That kind of stuff.

Ask his belly what it likes, chances good that Moon will show up. Also, memory of bad things? emotion vs. sensation attached?

The pride of Leo Moon can't help but toot their own horn now and then, another factor.

[astrologer50]

Solar Arcs
Solar arcs are really simple, especially for beginners, just move the Angles, Asc, Desc, MC, IC 1' for each year of your life onto planets and vice versa. Not just used for rectification either. Under age 12 though these interpretations are directed towards family changes, maybe relocation, job changes, illnesses, additions to family etc. Another example is my Pluto is 28' Leo in 7th house and my Uranus is 3' Leo in same house to subtract these and you get age 25. That year my then husband and I had an almighty explosion (Uranus) and transformation (Pluto) of that marriage that started the demise and ultimate ending thereof....

Further research on solar arcs try these threads.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12024&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12958&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6691&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/rectification.html
http://www.frankstar.com/solararc.htm
http://thezodiac.com/arcs.htm
http://www.donmc.com/Comparing%20Transits%20and%20Solar%20Arcs%20II.htm
http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/solar_arc_directions.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression
http://www.bernadettebrady.com/Pdfs/...tification.pdf

Rectification of birth time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW0G2S2Ti4I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYMX9X2C1BQ&NR=1
· Transiting Pluto square, conj opp Asc, Desc, MC, IC
· If under 12’ when it conj an Angle then their age was under age 12 it’s parents adjustments. A death, change within father’s work, a separation, remarriage.
· Adults or teens, 1st job, identity transformation MC.
· Pluto conj Desc = death, health concerns, geographic, significant relationship or break up, but has to be ‘life transforming’
· Also try transiting Neptune, something dissolving, disappearing, confusing etc.
· Timings of transits… is it the 1st hit? More often it’s the middle retrograde hit… but could be the last direct hit also. 1’ =4minutes in time.

Ascendant physical traits
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25131

Ascendant sign research
http://www.cafeastrology.com/risingsignsascendant.html
http://astrology.findyourfate.com/astrology-ascendant.htm
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/angles.html
http://moonvalleyastrologer.com/zodia_sign.htm
http://www.astrologyzine.com/what-are-rising-sign-traits.shtml
http://www.alwaysastrology.com/rising-signs.html
http://www.astrofaces.com/astrofaces/index.html
http://www.forrestastrology.com/Audio-and-Video/The-Ascendant-Workshop-MP3
http://www.starslikeyou.com.au/star-files/ascendant/aries.php

You can listen to author Jodie Forrest here describe Ascendants and planets in first house, even buy her audio on the subject
Just briefly, according to member Kannon [Cardinal signs are more rounded. Fixed signs are rectangular or blocky. Mutable signs are longish or narrow]
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28315

Also read/research various moon signs on say cafeastrology or use our search feature here on AW using keywords

[Gwenyhfair]

Maemae I like your ideas.

The problem is HE has both sides, exactly like that! There are the big hugs , extra attention. There is dreams about expensive food and excess. Then there is mom-this and mom-that. I like the food grandma made and such. Shyish, homie. But more picture of family than adoration.

Well he´s some kinda two face and that´s one of his problems (and others problem with him too)

But he has no other planet in leo, could be Asc...

[MaeMae]

chances good that he's got moony moon, i'd say. don't you hate when you don't know for sure?!

[R4VEN]

Moons in Cancer & Leo are very different. I like MaeMae's assessment.

As a Leo sun with Cancer moon myself, I can say that Moon in Cancer is more in-the-background, more a nurturer than one who likes to be seen. Leo Moon is proud of family/children, and may talk about them from the perspective of one who is proud of them. Cancer Moon is more subtle about it, and will not make a big show of it.

If this guy has Leo ASC, then this will make it difficult to determine the Moon.

I like to tell stories to illustrate what I mean..............
A few years ago my niece brought around her new bf (now her husband) for me to meet. During the afternoon his phone rang, and he answered it and chatted quietly for around 5 minutes. When he hung up he said: "That was my Mum. I love my Mum" I thought, "Mmmm, Cancer Moon." And when I got to do his chart, he does have a Cancer Moon. Now, he doesn't rattle on about family, but has a teddy-bear, gentle quality to him, despite having Sun in Sagi and Cap ASC. He communicates his love for family in more subtle and indirect ways than would a person with Leo Moon.