Pluto square Pluto

[Little_God]

I have read that the transit of Pluto square Pluto tends to be one of the most trying or testing times in one's entire life. Your greatest fears, insecurities, secrets and complexes can come to the surface, forcing you to acknowledge and deal with them.

If you have already had this transit, how did you experience it? Was it a painful, traumatic time for you?

I will get it in a few years' time, and have Pluto in the 12th house natally. It will be moving through my 3rd house at the time of the transit.

What should I expect? Do you think it's anything to fear?

[fushiafairy]

Getting prepared early I see....
Having mine right now....along with transiting pluto trine natal mars and transiting pluto inconjunct natal moon. My life has been nonstop crazy for 2 years...one heavy transit after another. Last year transiting saturn went over my natal pluto 3 times. So it all starts blending in.
My natal pluto is in 2nd house and my money and possesions have taken a beating. transiting pluto is in my 5th house...my kids. My oldest son just turned 13 and he is such a teenager. My role as is mom has changed alot.
Since I am in the middle of it, I can use all the advice I can get. I feel like I have been in the trenches. I do know that I am going through major changes and am ready to get my feet under me and make some decisions concerning the years to come. Tired of being in transition. I am wanting to decide on an educational path so my income will be more stable down the road.
I would read about your pluto in the 12th. Changes are likely to take place in that area of your life.

[Spectrum]

Pluto square was a difficult transit for me. I had the benefit of books and my astrologer. I would say not to indulge in victim-like behaviour or expose yourself to victimhood. Removing yourself from others that seek to hurt you or undermine you. Ask yourself honestly if you are unduly allowing yourself to be hurt by others, it may prompt some self inquiry, but removing yourself from the source of difficulty, will go a long way towards self preservation.

This time may arouse complex fears, so you will feel on the back foot unless you address it at its source. I would talk to a spiritual advisor in this regard and ask how you can eliminate it from your life. You will find yourself in environments where this can get activated constantly and may affect your adrenal glands as well as your immune system. I would recommend studying "Before I Am" a book of dialogues with Mooji or "Chakra Therapy" by Keith Sherwood. Both these books will enable you to handle stress and fear. Do the practices - they will preserve your health.

I would also encourage you to take a particular form of ayurvedic tea called "Tulsi" which eliminates stress at its core. It is NOT a chamomile tea you can buy, but rather it is what is called an adaptogenic substance that enables your body to acclimatize to stressful situations. It totally removes it from its source and you will feel peaceful and relaxed. You can read more about this amazing tea which is now breaking into the western market. It does not mask symptoms like anti-anxiety preparations and unlike long-term use it is totally safe as well as being extremely effective. Go to Dr. Mercola's website for more information on Tulsi.

You may need to use various forms of psychic protection, or attend a class on how to do this. I have found some forms very beneficial, in particular spinning 21 times clockwise and consciously sending or saying you are sending toxic debris into the ground, I learned this from a mystery school
and it frees up your energetic system, you feel "clear" of it after your practice. I have also found crystals to be very beneficial, I use black tourmaline, it absorbs psychic attack and sends it back to the sender. Learn how to work with crystals, how to charge them etc - they will be a great allay.

Also of interest to you is the book "20 Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation" During this time you may explore themes of death and dying, it does not mean you are going to die but it is a time where they will be prominently featured. An understanding of death, anything to do with the Akarshic records, electronic voice phenomena, and mediums of a reputed nature will provide you with sufficient perspective on your life. I had a reading with Douglass James Cottrell and an EVP expert and they springboard you to greater dimensions. You will be glad you explored it as it is your gateway to the spiritual and eternal.

I would get books on adrenal fatigue and determine now whether you have this issue currently, you can do a home test, but would be wise to go to a naturopath who does this assessment. About 80% of the population is plagued by this and the pluto transit can make it worse. Address this before and during your transit, and take the necessary herbs. They do not recommend taking a preparation with ginseng in it as you can "crash" coming off the treatment. Make enquiries.

It is also good to detox during this phase, colonic cleansing in particular and any form of self healing which clears the body and raises your overall vibration. I would commend the protocols on www.curezone.com

Pluto square can be a very disrupting & unsettling influence, but at the end of the transit you will have the "building up" of pluto, for what pluto destroys it builds up too. The things that were once dear to you don't concern you as much and you will experience a life on a more deeper and satisfying level. Also "be yourself" that is the best form of advice anyone can give - innate spiritual protection.

Good luck, you'll be fine

[BobZemco]

Originally Posted by Little_God

I have read that the transit of Pluto square Pluto tends to be one of the most trying or testing times in one's entire life. Your greatest fears, insecurities, secrets and complexes can come to the surface, forcing you to acknowledge and deal with them.

If you have already had this transit, how did you experience it? Was it a painful, traumatic time for you?

I will get it in a few years' time, and have Pluto in the 12th house natally. It will be moving through my 3rd house at the time of the transit.

What should I expect? Do you think it's anything to fear?

Well, looks like you're improving marginally. At least you mentioned the Houses. How about those little decorative thingies on the outside of the chart-wheel, you know the Signs? Don't the Signs get no love?

"Astrology by Polling" is magnificent, but it is not Astrology.

Astrology is Planet, Sign, House, Aspect, Reception. Always.

How people are affected by a particular transiting Planet in aspect with a natal Planet depends on, guess what? Planet, Sign, House, Aspect and Reception.

Reception is not an issue here, since Pluto rules nothing. And avoid the astroweb-sites, because they're all wrong.

When I had Pluto square Pluto, I left the US and went tot he UK to work. I lived in Queens Park, right on Brondesberry or Brondesberry Villas (I can't remember which) and I rode the tube to Camden Town to work for a video production company. Lot of fun. I was consulting for them since I have certain special knowledge in "things nuclear" that only a few people walking the planet know. I got to mix the sound tracks on documentaries and do the graphics. It was a lot of fun. There was an old sergeant major that hung out at one of the pubs on Kilburn High Road and he was in II Queen's Infantry at Verden. We didn't know each other, but we knew a lot of the same people there, plus a few people with the Green Jackets at Celle and both of us used to hang out at Bill Bailey's Beer Bar in Fallingbostel when we were training at Bergen-Belsen. I got to go study at the British Museum at St Pancras/King's Cross. Found Kensington has a lot of nice restaurants. Used to go there quite a bit. I accidentally tripped over Anne Boleyn's head at the Tower of London and her ghost chased me round and round for a while.

Any of that sound fearful, frightening, insecure?

Okay, so my passport expired and the idiots at US Embassy London told me I had to leave the UK, go to another US Embassy/Consulate, get a passport made there, and then come back.

No problemo. Hopped the ferry, took the train to Hamburg, got the new passport, and then of course I couldn't resist stopping in Osterholz-Sharmbeck to eat at my favorite Greek restaurant in the whole world (even better than the ones in Greece I ate at).

Anything insecure or frightening there?

Maybe I should mention transiting Pluto was in my 1st House, and another "minor detail" would be natal Pluto in the 10th House, and another "minor detail" would be natal Moon in exact opposition to natal Pluto, and I suppose I should mention that Moon rules the 9th House of long distance travel and all things foreign, and it might be helpful to mention that natal Moon conjuncts natal Jupiter and that Jupiter (not Neptune) rules Pisces and Jupiter receives Moon, and that Jupiter is the Exaltation Ruler of the 9th House of foreign travel thingies, and that Venus makes an applying trine to both Moon and Jupiter and Moon and Jupiter both receive Venus by Rulership and Exaltation and Venus receives both Moon and Jupiter by Exaltation ie Mutual Reception (and Jupiter is the natural ruler of the 9th House and a general significator of things foreign plus wealth and religion/education and such). And natal Pluto is in the Term of Venus and that helps with Venus

So transiting Pluto activated a T-Square (and of course with transiting Pluto in the 1st House you focus on the empty part of the T-Square which is the 7th House).

Yeah, I was so frightened I jumped on a bus with a bunch of Czechs and went to Praha, and then I hitchhiked to Bratislava, and took a train to Romania for the very last total Solar Eclipse of the 20th Century. And I stood right there in the exact center of the eclipse path and watched the entire eclipse move right over me.

Sorry, nothing happened (well of course nothing happened -- that's Astrology).

Then transiting Pluto squared Jupiter. Scary square? Nope. That's a mother beautiful square, because Jupiter receives Pluto in Sagittarius. That's what challenges and motivates and drives you and gives you energy. And more than that, Pluto at 10° Sagittarius is in the Term of Jupiter. That's like a double mother beautiful square. So many positive waves. Those kinds of squares are to die for.

So you can pay attention to goofball texts and websites or read the chart, look at the Signs and Houses, look for Reception, look at the Term Rulers follow the dots/connect the dots.

I understand it isn't easy. Somebody found a big rock in space, and named it Pluto, then they tried to crow-bar the Planet into fitting the "god of the underworld" description of Pluto and guess what? It doesn't work.

Some people are starting to figure out what traditional astrologers have known all along.

Astrology is an individual thing, not a group thing, so no one will have the same experiences, which is why it is all the more important to actually read the chart. Your natal chart isn't about you, it's about your world, and while this might come as a surprise to some of you, that includes other people in addition to you. So just because you see an aspect, don't make the mistake of automatically assuming it's all about you, because it isn't, it's about your world (which includes other people). Yes, it might be about you or something that happens to you, but it could be something that happens to someone else and affects you indirectly.

Maybe the 5th House is involved, but that could be your children or firstborn child and not you. Of course if you don't have children, then you can rule that out. It could be something to do with your mother (since 5th House is her 8th House). Could also be your spouse's friends. Maybe your parent's lose their home, or it is damaged or destroyed, since the 4th House is parents and the 5th House is the second House from the 4th House and so that's their assets (and in that case you'd want to pay attention to what is happening in the 7th House since that is their 4th House/Real Estate). The 1st House is your father's career or status or honor/reputation (because it's the tenth House from the 4th House).

Make sure you consider all the meanings of the Houses and derived meanings as well.

There are a lot of things going on in your chart, aside from transits that have more of an impact than transits. Those of you who think Pluto square Pluto actually did something, it probably didn't. Your progressed Ascendant in the Term of a Planet in bad condition in your natal chart can make your life miserable, and the Ascendant and other Chart Points directed to the square or opposition of other Planets can make your life miserable as well (or improve it greatly).

When transiting Planets are not making aspects, they are still doing things. They are in the Term of Planet and they are aspecting other Houses (and yes that's Houses and not Planets), so you need to pay attention to that stuff too, especially since it has a greater impact over all.

Here's the chart (Pluto made 3 squares between March 1998 and December 1999):

[Olivia]

I don't normally use the outer planets, but after reading Bob's story, looked up when Pluto squared my natal Pluto.

I'd moved to another country, too, a couple of years before that, that I wanted to move to, and during the first hit, I found a wonderful old house that I could afford. Then I finally got an inheritance that had been hung up for years in probate and bought myself a vintage convertible - that had only 10,000 miles on it and was the most gorgeous car EVER. I mean, whenever I parked it, someone would invariably make me an offer on it because they wanted to buy it, but I wasn't selling. It handled like a dream, too. I have a thing for vintage automobiles.

Ran into an old friend from Paris, possibly the only guy in history who did something useful with Heidigger's phenomenology - he used it to radically change theatrical set design, and was the person who introduced Jean Genet's plays to the US. Le Balcon, in 1967, at the Circle in the Square Theatre, if memory serves. Greyson Hall played Madame Irma and it was wonderful - I was there for opening night. As a result of all this, my friend had a cupboardful of awards from places like Venice and Cannes, though he never talked about it, because he was a nice guy, not totally egoiste.

Well, he was running a master's programme in film at a Very Prestigious local university, knew I had a film degree from way back, and asked if I'd like to do the master's course, as it was an experimental design and way ahead of its time. Free.

He didn't have to ask twice, and it was great fun. I graduated with high honours, btw, and even got to do my thesis on vampire films and subverting cultural stereotypes, which was an absolute hoot!

Met lots of good people, and lots of famous people - who treated me very well. Then got an offer to go work in the UK for a year (and an obscene salary), had a lovely flat in West Kensington right near the tube and the club where the Jam played its first public performance. Loads of fun there, too, and I had plenty of time to play the tourist, lived in theatres and museums.

Met my husband somewhere along the line there...love at first sight, I might add. He was killed eventually, but that was years after the transit.

Natal Pluto? In 9, in a fixed t-square with a natal Mars/Chiron conjunction (I don't do Chiron, either) and the Moon. Also exactly square Fortuna in 12.

What happened during the transit? It was a GREAT time.

T-Neptune and T-Uranus were squaring my natal Merc/Jupiter opposition around the same time.

All three of them did the retrograde hit-the-spot-five-times deal, that's why it was a matter of years.

So...I don't think you can count on outer planet transits to be that scary, at least not by themselves. For me, when the term of the ascendant hands over from a malefic to a malefic - life gets scary. Some other times, too, but you'd probably need to understand traditional astrology to get it.

Outer planets? Those can safely be ignored. Truly. Or look forward to them if you prefer. All the outer planets are in hideous aspect to the traditional planets in my chart, but the outers haven't done me in yet. Other things have, believe me, but not those.

So calm down already.

[Cosmic Tour Guide]

Is your natal Pluto in a hard aspect to another natal planet in your chart? That will also determine how intense this period will be, and the other planet will be affected as well.

This is a time to shed what is old. Our resistance to letting go what needs to go causes the tension. What needs to die must die, and will die, how painful is really up to us.

[Olivia]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Tour Guide

Is your natal Pluto in a hard aspect to another natal planet in your chart? That will also determine how intense this period will be, and the other planet will be affected as well.

This is a time to shed what is old. Our resistance to letting go what needs to go causes the tension. What needs to die must die, and will die, how painful is really up to us.

Well, Bob had his Pluto square Pluto activate a natal t-square, and I had Pluto square Pluto activate a natal t-square that natal Pluto was part of in my chart. Yet we both had a terrific time during the transit.

If Pluto indeed had anything to do with what happened (which I doubt, because I've never seen disasters happen during outer planet transits that weren't marked by something else in the chart) I'd wish for more Pluto square Pluto transits!

Many, many people go through Pluto transits with nothing whatsoever memorable happening to them. Probably more than not. I wouldn't worry about it.

Someone up there ^^ mentioned tulsi, also known as holy basil in much of Western Europe and North America. It is indeed wonderful for cooking, and also a great ingredient in skin and hair care products. Pluto transit or no, it's a nifty herb. Often to be found in regular markets, just FYI.

[piscesnurse]

what does pluto in the 11th on natal moon~~~~ opposite natal pluto in the fifth in leo mean??

[Olivia]

Originally Posted by piscesnurse

what does pluto in the 11th on natal moon~~~~ opposite natal pluto in the fifth in leo mean??

That it's at least the year 2025 and you're well into your 90s.

It's not the year 2025 yet. It's 2011.

Are you talking about T-Pluto opp natal Pluto?

Most people won't live long enough to see that transit - Pluto sped up a couple decades ago when it hit perihelion and actually came closer to us than Neptune, but it's on its way back to slowness again. On average, you'd have to live to be 120 or so to see that aspect in your chart.

[BobZemco]

Originally Posted by michel12

BobZemco i am amazed ,shows how little i know about astrology , same aspects to different people mean different things and different experiences , makes me confused , i guess its very individual.

Yes, it is very individual. Your natal chart is about your world and the people you interact with. In order to know the story, you have to look at the Planets, Signs, Houses, Aspects and Reception in your chart. What happens in other people's charts has no bearing on you (unless you're interacting with them at the physical level) except as a learning thing.

People learn at different rates, so learn at a rate that is comfortable to you, even if it is slow (there's no Astrology Olympics handing out Gold Medals), and try to master something as best you can before you move onto the next level.

A lot of people only learn 1/10th about the Planets then rush into the 'noids and hemorrhoids like Chiron and Lilith and because they don't fully understand the Planets nothing makes sense, and they get frustrated and give up because they think Astrology is garbage.

So learn at your own pace and try to master the signification of the Houses, Signs and Planets (the Sun can be your father -- especially in a Day Chart -- or your brother, your boss, supervisor, male co-worker or it can be a non-people thing like you health/vitality, your reputation, your credit -- as in your finances -- your fame etc).

Originally Posted by Olivia

Most people won't live long enough to see that transit.

I will. It will be one of the last things I ever see.

Originally Posted by piscesnurse

what does pluto in the 11th on natal moon~~~~ opposite natal pluto in the fifth in leo mean??

You might want to read the thread. In it's entirety.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Tour Guide

Is your natal Pluto in a hard aspect to another natal planet in your chart? That will also determine how intense this period will be, and the other planet will be affected as well.

This is a time to shed what is old. Our resistance to letting go what needs to go causes the tension. What needs to die must die, and will die, how painful is really up to us.

Yes, I have one of the so-called "hard aspects" natal Sun at 5° Gemini square natal Pluto at 7° Virgo.

That blows your theory.

Originally Posted by Olivia

I don't normally use the outer planets, but after reading Bob's story, looked up when Pluto squared my natal Pluto.

I don't normally use the Outer Planets either, but I understand they do the "modern" astrology thing and was trying to explain it to them from the "modern" astrology position.

The real reason is because my Solar Return Ascendant was at 23°Leo11' which means Leo intercepted in my natal 9th House of foreign travel came to the Ascendant.

The natal Lot of Fortune at 23°Leo11' in the natal 9th House was conjunct the Solar Return Ascendant. Sun dispositor of Lot of Fortune was in the Solar Return 10th House along with Solar Return Moon (rules natal 9th), Mercury and Mars (rules natal Ascendant).

Solar Return Lot of Fortune was in the Solar Return Ascendant (with disposition Mercury in 10th and conjunct the MC).

Solar Return Saturn ruling the natal 3rd House of communications and travel was in the 9th House of media, television, foreign travel etc.

Profectional Ascendant is Natal Ascendant.

A couple of Primary Directions with Moon (9th House Ruler) and Jupiter (Dispostor Lot of Travel) and Promittors also indicated foreign travel etc.

Those are the real reasons. It didn't really have anything to do with Pluto.

[Cosmic Tour Guide]

Originally Posted by BobZemco

Yes, I have one of the so-called "hard aspects" natal Sun at 5° Gemini square natal Pluto at 7° Virgo.

That blows your theory.

Yet, during that time your life you were doing something and experiencing something new. I doesn't have to be frightening or scary. Nevertheless it is a change.

[Lion o ness]

I had/have this transit going on.. right now.. It also makes a t-square with my Venus..

Transit Pluto (early cap) H10
natal venus = cancer H4
natal pluto = libra H7

(also transit Saturn passed pluto, in my 7th)


I dont even know if I can put into words, what I have been through these last few years.

First my husband was taken away (literally) dont want to explain.
Then I kept meeting these INTENSE off the wall connections.. One right after another..
I met someone who's stellium hit my 12th.. Yes deep issues where brought forward... I also got obsessed.. I felt he was an fallen angel... OMG!!

I reconnected with an ex from 12years ago (I always had that what if) we obviously had a few issues to work through together..

Issue after issue... But none of the issue's were resolved in one shot.. They have been on going for 2 years now I think...

I cant tell you the end yet, still going through all of this...

[BobZemco]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Tour Guide

Yet, during that time your life you were doing something and experiencing something new.

Like what?

Going to the UK? That was my third time there.

Traveling? I've spent more than 30 days in 30 countries on 5 continents. If If I wasn't living there, then I was working there, and if I wasn't working, I was pleasure traveling and if I wasn't doing that, then I was killing people.

Mixing Sound? Did that for my band and another band, plus I did that when I was a sound engineer at WBTI (a television station not a radio station).

Television. Already been interviewed on camera 6 times, plus I worked at a television station.

Consulting? Already did that, too.

Eclipses? Seen lots of Solunar Eclipses. Used to photograph them for fun. Seen eclipses in the US, Germany, Romania and Spain.

The reason the traditional Planets work is because people spent several thousand years studying them. First the Sumerians, then the Akkadians, the Amorites (what you would call Babylonians) the Assyrians, the Chaldeans (Neo-Babylonians) and the Greeks and Romans.

How many thousands of years did people study Pluto?

Zero.

Pluto represents death because why? Not because people studied Pluto, but because the Planet is named Pluto and Pluto is the mythological god of death and the underworld.

How scientific or astrological is that? Not.

So when Pluto doesn't represent death in spite of their best efforts to force it, we get the old back-pedaling "not real death, but death in the figurative sense" except that's failing miserably too, so I'm sure they'll come out with some new nonsense.

I don't see any evidence Pluto (or the other Outers) affect people on a personal individual level.

If you want to argue they affect people en masse on la arge scale group or generational level, then I'm right there with you, because I see a substantial body of evidence for that, and I even did a thread on [US] generations and how they conform to the transits of the Outer Planets if you are using a chart that has Sagittarius rising.

That's why they're often ignored in synastry, unless there is a substantial age difference. And if people are wondering a marriage with an age difference of 15 years usually ends up being a disaster, but an age difference of 30-40 years is a match made in Heaven, blessed by the UN, NATO, the Pope and everyone else, look at the chart and you'll usually see Neptune sextile Neptune and Uranus trine Uranus.

Lion o ness]I dont even know if I can put into words, what I have been through these last few years.

And it has nothing to do with Pluto.

[Lion o ness]

Quote:
Lion o ness]I dont even know if I can put into words, what I have been through these last few years.
And it has nothing to do with Pluto.

What do you mean? You think its Saturn?

[Olivia]

Originally Posted by Lion o ness

What do you mean? You think its Saturn?

It could be a whole bunch of things, probably in combination. What term is your directed ascendant in? If it just handed over from Saturn to Mars or vice-versa, life could get tough. That's a tiny bit of a generalisation, but the malefics are indeed malefic for most folks, and that's a nasty shift.

Are you in a firdar ruled or sub-ruled by a horribly afflicted planet in your natal chart?

Are your profected chart, solar returns, and/or primary directions (2 out of 3 anyway) pointing to relationship upheavals and whatever else you're going through? That'll do it, too. I had a client with a horribly afflicted Mars come up smack on their SR descendant three years running. That was BAD. There was some other stuff going on, but that seemed to be the real stand-out and focal point of it all.

As Bob stressed, astrology is highly individual. I might have a great time during a Venus-ruled firdar because I have an exalted Venus sextile an exalted Moon, and Venus rules my MC. You, on the other hand, might have a miserable time during a Venus firdar because Venus is detrimented, besieged, and in your natal 6th, 8th, or 12th house. And maybe your ascendant just went into a Saturn term. And maybe directed Venus just hit a conjunction to Mars, and your SR has the South Node smack on the ascendant squaring the whole natal mess and opposing SR Mars.

Who knows without studying your chart?

[waybread]

A truism of modern astrology is that planets affect us negatively to the extent that we haven't mastered in our lives the energies that the planet's symbolism represents. If a seemingly difficult transit passes without notice, probably we've incorporated a lot of that planet's meaning into our lives.

Pluto as a positive force is about profound transformation. Pluto square Pluto transforms the transformer, and may presage deeper change in your life as transiting Pluto hits other planets/points in your chart.

When I had Pluto square Pluto back when, it was pretty difficult. I definitely had not mastered Pluto's relish for profound, ruthless change. Natally Pluto opposes my sun, and people with oppositions to the sun oftentimes experience the opposing planet as other people who seemingly embody the planet's negative qualities and who oppose their interests in some way. I experienced the negative side of Plutonic people (ruthless, into domination and negative power-relations, insensitive to my feelings) as literally opposed to me. I had some hard evidence to substantiate this via my dad and a couple of work supervisors.

Reading up on how people disown the parts of themselves they dislike and paste them on other people (projection) was a helpful antidote. I began to realize that "there is no one else out there." The Pluto in my chart was part of me, not anyone else.

Pluto transits began to go a lot better after that.

With Pluto transits, try to catch the wave. Deliberately kill off anything metaphorically dead or dying in your life so that new growth can take its place. Be open to profound change. Ask, "Would you give up everything you are now in order to be everything you could become?"

[Jardine]

Hello, my Pluto square Pluto transit is exact at the moment (as is Pluto square Jupiter, because I have an exact Jupiter-Pluto opposition in my chart). I'd read a lot of not-so-pleasant stuff about this transit, and since I'm very Pluto-sensitive, I had expected a profound impact. But I have to say, I can't see anything too pronounced happening yet ... I can't pinpoint a theme, or an event. It is nothing compared to the Pluto-Ascendant transit (2.50 Cap) which really shook me to the core, and I was able to feel it at least two years before exact. I usually feel a Pluto transit at least 3 degrees ahead ... but this one eludes me. So, the individual experience can vary a great deal