Cebrities' Adoption of Children in charts

I was looking at Madonna's chart to see if the adoption can be shown in her natal chart, but I am not sure what to look for. Is adoption shown by the 11th house. Does the chart or transits show why there has been such controversy around the adoption.




Madonna's Chart and Transits

Re: Madonna Adoption

If Sun/Leo/5th rule children in the chart, Madonna has Venus in Leo in the 11th house opposite her 5th house of children.

Maybe this is what represents the adoption in her chart:

Venus in Leo 11th
Venus rules 9th
Venus square Jupiter
Venus square Neptune

Possibly this indicates the connection of adopting a child abroad. With the Jupiter connections/9th house.

Madonna has her transiting Saturn in Leo/12th conjunct her Sun, here is the meaning of this transit in my prediction book.

When Saturn transits the 5th house, enters the sign Leo, or Aspects the Sun, you may feel more responsibility for children, or you may take on the responsibility of having another child.

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Shining Ray

Re: Madonna Adoption

Here is Angelina Jolie's chart who has also adopted children, she has her Sun in the 11th house.

Re: Madonna Adoption

Idea: Madonna's 5th house includes Aqarius, and Angelina's includes Sagittarius. Could Aqua suggest a humanitarian, progressive approach to children, and Sagittarius suggest a link between children and foreign lands/travel?

Angelina has dispositor of her 5H, Jupiter, in 9H, travel and ideals - so perhaps children are connected with these for her. Angelina's first children wer adopted from overseas right? And the child that is biologically her own was born overseas? She also receives much attention for her multicultural adopted "brood" (Jupiter, ruler of 5H, in Aries...a trailbrazer )

Madonna has the first dispositor of her 5H, Saturn, in 4H, and her first children were biologically her own. She also gave birth later in life, and probably in her own country too, a much more conventional "Saturn" approach to children. Her other 5H dispositor, Uranus, is in the 12H in Leo. Leo definitely connects with children. Could 12H be both the orphanage from which he was adopted, and also the accusations of using fame (Leo) to adopt dishonestly (unlawfully)?

Re: Madonna Adoption

Very good ideas howl I never thought of the 12th house being the child from the orphanage. Madonna has received more criticisms than Angelina for adopting children abroad. Maybe this is the Leo/fame Neptune/dishonesty accusations she has received.

Re: Madonna Adoption

Shining Ray,
thank you for posting this as it is a topic that interests me.

In the asteroids section, I mentioned the effect of the asteroid David(a) in my personal life recently, so I was curious as to how this asteroid would be placed in Madonna's chart as referring to the adopted boy. Courtesy astro. com. places it on 19 degr. Virgo. Just look at the aspects it makes!! Square 4th house Saturn in Sagittarius of all signs, associated with 'foreign horizons', taking on the 'extra' responsibility for philanthropic reasons? As Madonna is not the natural mother but taking on this ' surrogate role', I was particularly interested in BML's role in all this. Coincidence that David(a) is at the apex of the yod between 8th house Black Moon Lilith in Aries sextile Chiron in Aquarius ? She isn't receiving the best acclaim for doing this, is she?
The on-going behind the scenes administration and transference of parenthood that few knew about *might* be a correlation with BML's transit through Virgo in her 1st house square tr. Pluto in her 4th house, and it was yet another correlation to find that transiting BML was conjunct sec. progr. Venus ( ruler 9th house in Taurus- literal earthly foreign horizons) when the news broke out of her surrogate motherhood.

Haven't looked at Jolie's chart yet .

F.

Re: Madonna Adoption

I find this topic very interesting myself and wondered why nobody had posted on this especially with the media surrounding Madonna at the moment. With Asteroid david aspecting her Saturn in Sagittarius the ruler of her 5th house of children and the extra responsibility she has now taken on regarding children. This really does fit her. I would be interested to know what the Asteroid david means in astrology.

I added Angelina's chart because as far as I know she never received the media coverage that Madonna has received. But we are talking about Madonna here and whatever she does it always seems to stir up controversy. This is why I was wondering on what the comparisons were between their charts.

Re: Madonna Adoption

Angelina Jolie:

Another natal 8th house BML, in Pisces at the apex of T-square with Sun-Neptune. Natal Neptune in 5th, associated with children, is ruler 9th house...foreign horizons again! With the Sun influence, Jolie may see herself as a 'parent' rather than 'being responsible for', as with Madonna. She didn't apparently seek the limelight either.

Interesting!

F.

Re: Madonna Adoption

Wow look at transiting Uranus opposing her Natal Moon in Virgo. Mass Media surrounding her family and role as a mother. The criticisms she has received could be indicated by Virgo. The Moon rules the 11th house cusp. Uranus is natally in Leo in the 12th house. Uranus/Moon life as a parent is undergoing dramatic change. The personal and public image is altered.

Re: Madonna Adoption

Shining Ray said:

. I would be interested to know what the Asteroid david means in astrology.

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This is BorX's reply to a post of mine, taken from the cosmic objects section.

Davida it's not commonly used, it's very minor and very few studied it, but that doesn't stop us astrologers for finding an influence on it, it's on the cosmos and it means something.

Davida it's an asteroids that reprezents lack of stability in affairs, gives frustation and causes instability in life, accidents and sometimes agressive tendicies.. Positive it can give good impresion and success, flexibility and seeking new aventures and challanges. Medical it reprezents problems to fluid system, weaken resistance, heart weaken, tension disorder, and arterial problems.

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I read on another group recently that Davida is a particularly large asteroid, bigger than the major ones already used, so it is rather surprising that it has never reached major status itself. Maybe Madonna has now changed that .

F.

Re: Madonna Adoption

There is also an interesting bit of Saturn/Pluto going on in the chart.

Natally, she has a somewhat loose SA/PL=Node midpoint, and now there is a very tight transiting SA/PL = natal North Node midpoint going on. Her natal Node is 24Libra02, the current position of the SA/PL midpoint is 23Lib57, just a few arcmin away from her node. The transiting objects are in trine, with both thus sextiling her NN.

Consulting a midpoint book on SA/PL=Node, it is defined as "Suffering shared with others". Being that the transiting midpoint aspect is activating the similar natal aspect, a time is indicated for her to share the suffering of others.

The 12th definitly deals with orpaned or institutionalized people, and Saturn is bang on her natal 12th house Sun, indicating further activation of SA/PL=NO.

She also has the nodal axis transiting her 7th/1st house axis, which indicates a focus on one-on-one relationships and caring about the welfare of others. This transit teaches a person about the give-and-take energy in relationships, and how it must be expressed from both sides. It's a time when we learn how we can better relate to others, and tend to form relationships that teach us about being responsible and caring in our relationships with others. Maybe all those years of being a queen are catching up with her.

Uranus, the resonance increaser, opposing the Moon, shows her need to nurture and be a mother is being activated. Her Moon also feels some responsibility (Saturn) to be commited to another (Juno) as the Saturn/Juno midpoint is falling at the 12th degree of Virgo, the degree of her moon.

The controversy is to be expected, it's understandable why some people are a bit concerned by this, I think its obvious this will have a huge impact upon the child, for better or worse. I certainly wouldn't want my child being raised by a pop-star sex-icon.

Re: Madonna Adoption

Indications for Adoption in the Natal Chart

Adopting parents are usually connections between LEO and AQUARIUS or LEO and PISCES. (I got this information from Maurice Fernandez)

Sun in AQ or Pisces
Sun in the 11th or 12th
Sun in tight aspects to Uranus or Neptune
Neptune or Uranus in the 5th
Aquarius or Pisces in the 5th
* * * * * * *

Children through your partner but not your own:

In any case, every issue with children will involve LEO/5th HOUSE/SUN

Mia Farrow :Serial adopter Mia Farrow had four children, and adopted 10 more from around the world. These children all had a variety of special needs - an asthmatic Vietnamese orphan, a polio victim abandoned at a Calcutta station, two are blind, one has cerebral palsy and another was born addicted to crack. Mia Farrow has the financial means to help these children, it's a very selfless thing to do, and she's essentially done it on her own.





Michelle Pfeiffer: famously said she had decided to adopt because she had given up hope of meeting someone and starting a family, and adopted her daughter Claudia Rose in March 1993. Shortly afterwards she met her future husband, David E Kelley, creator of Ally McBeal. The couple went on to have a son of their own together.

Re: Madonna Adoption

Mia Farrow - Sun in Aquarius in 11th house. Leo cusp of 5th, ruler Sun aqu/11th No wonder she has adopted so many children.

Michelle Pfeiffer - Sun in 12th Ruler of 5th Mercury in 11th house. Sun opposed Neptune.

Madonna - Sun in 12th Venus in Leo 11th.

Angelina Jolie - Sun in 11th, Sun oppose Neptune. Neptune in the 5th.

Re: Madonna Adoption

In cases of adoption there is no physical link between parent and child. It's therefore uncanny how often Black Moon Lilith as 'mother role' features in the charts you have selected:

Mia Farrow - BML approx. 9 degr. Libra conjunct Neptune and part of grand cross involving 9th house (foreign horizions again) Moon, and Saturn in Cancer, ruler 9th house.

Michelle Pfeiffer: BML approx. 7 degr. Aries trine Uranus, ruler 9th house, in Leo.

I wonder if the 9th house could also represent the legalities involved in adoption, which are obviously unnecessary in natural childbirth.

F.

Re: Madonna Adoption

I would imagine the 9th/sag/jup connection must play a part in it for you have to go through legal proceedings to adopt a child. The 11th house being the adoptive house opposite the 5th house of children separate physically from you. Interesting what you have noted on the black moon Lilith. I have mine in Leo/12th at 15 degrees.

I might post my chart and britney's as an example of children from your partners previous relationship. I will have to look at Britney's chart in more detail to see if we have similarities.

I personally find this subject fascinating.

Re: Madonna Adoption

Britney Spears

LOS ANGELES, Sept. -- Britney Spears' father confirmed the singer has given birth to her second child at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles.
Jamie Spears told an Access Hollywood interview his daughter gave birth by Caesarean to a 6-pound, 11-ounce boy in the early hours of Tuesday.
"Thank you, we appreciate your concern. Everything is great," Jamie Spears said.
Spears and husband Kevin Federline had their first child together, Sean Preston, on Sept. 14, 2005. Federline has two other children from a previous marriage.





I have one child and my partner has a child from a previous marriage. My son has a half sister.



Britney's 11th cusp Leo, Sun in 3rd house sextile Moon in Aquarius 5th house. This possibly shows the connection of children outside of britney connected to her own children.

My chart I have Jupiter in Leo 11th opposite Venus in 5th house. The connection of my partners child to my son in 5th. The 11th house representing the child not physically mine.

Interestingly Britney had her first baby Sean the same day I had my child14/09/05. She was trying to steal the spotlight from me.

Re: Madonna Adoption

Interesting subject.

I've noticed that foreign adoptions have been on the rise ever since Pluto entered Sagittarius.

My brother and I were adopted, and we have nodal synastry with our mother. My mother's nodes were active during the adoption of each of us. I noticed the nodes, tr Saturn, Pluto and H12 were very active in both Angelina's and Madonna's charts.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/reflex.html If this thread is moving into conception, I found this article, someone who has done a study on conception and found a link between the natal postition of Sun and Moon and says the best time to conceive:

Eventually I found the astrological answer to this conception/contraception conundrum. There is an approximate two-hour period each lunar month (29.5 days) when the sun and moon will be the exact number of degrees apart as they were at each individual woman’s time of birth. It is within this two-hour time span that always and without exception ovulation will take place. This does NOT apply to women who have taken synthetic hormones, or have had an I.U.D. within a 3-6 month period. In order to calculate this exact two-hour time period, a woman’s precise time of birth must be known, as well as the day, month, year and place of birth. If the birth time is unknown it is still possible to calculate the ovulation time to within 24 hours and adding two days either side provides a foolproof means of contraception.

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Re: Madonna Adoption

Hi

What would show in the adopted child's chart?

My father was adopted by his maternal uncle and his wife.

Details:
interfamily adoption, brother adopted his sisters 3rd child. [she ended up having 9 children]
[ironically, this brother and sister married their partners on the same day.]

Dad's adoptive father was his maternal uncle. [would this show in his 12th house?]
Adoptive mother was related to child thru her marriage, ie husband's nephew.
[would this show in her 11th house - [children not your own] or in her 7th house [nephew]?

They thought they were unable to have their own child, and adoptive father's mother was the one who instigated the whole thing to ensure there was a child to take over the family farm.
My father never knew until he was engaged to my mother, and had informed his adoptive father he was going to take up engineering not farming. They then told him about the adoption and why he was adopted. Although shattered by the revelation, he did take over the farm.

Dad was 3yrs 7mths when adoption papers legally signed 21May1919 between 9am and 3pm.
They eventually had their own child [nov 11 - another scorpio] 3yrs 6mths after adopting Dad.
Dad died on his adoptive father's birthday, 18th October. Dad was born 24th October.
? everything was predestined.

Dad and Mum also had 9 children, same as Dad's birth mother.
3's seem to be playing a big part.
Dad 3rd child and in 3rd year when adopted.
3yrs later when adoptive parents had own child.
9 children - multiple of 3.

Cheers, Marg

Re: Madonna Adoption

kiwikid said:

Hi

Hi Marg,
I think we've met verbally elsewhere?

What would show in the adopted child's chart?

My father was adopted by his maternal uncle and his wife.

Details:
interfamily adoption, brother adopted his sisters 3rd child.

Dad's adoptive father was his maternal uncle. [would this show in his 12th house?]
Adoptive mother was related to child thru her marriage, ie husband's nephew.
[would this show in her 11th house - [children not your own] or in her 7th house [nephew]?
Dad was 3yrs 7mths when adoption papers legally signed 21May1919 between 9am and 3pm.

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If the 11th house is the adoptive house as Shining Ray suggests, one would expect to see a link between that and the 3rd house/Gemini and/ or Mercury (relatives) of the child, don't you think? What is therefore very interesting is that your dad, born 24 October 1915, had a Sun-Mercury R. conjunction and his Black Moon Lilith was in Gemini!

3's seem to be playing a big part.
Dad 3rd child and in 3rd year when adopted.
3yrs later when adoptive parents had own child.
9 children - multiple of 3.

Click to expand...

Plus the Mercury and Gemini influence


F.

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Re: Madonna Adoption

Here is what I have found for Adopted Children by Maurice Fernandez.

Classic signatures are:

Scorpio or 8th House Moon (sometimes Sun)
Pluto in the 4th
Pluto-Moon aspects
Pisces or 12th House Moon (sometimes Sun)
Neptune in the 4th
Neptune - Moon aspects
Pluto in the 8th House/12th House
* * * * * * *