Neptune Spiritual or Psychic Trauma

[Shining Ray]

deleted post

[rose]

I read this article some time ago when I was researching Neptune,at that time I was interested in finding out what "traditional astrology" had to say about it, and also a vedic astrologer I was seeing at that time gave me a copy of these transcripts. I think they were written by Jeff Wolf Green, and anyone who's familiar whit JWG's work should understand that his interpretations spring from a very deep analysis of Karmic and evolutionary intent of the Soul. As I have struggled for a lifetime to confront Neptunian fog, illusionement and profound sense of mysticism which I haven't been able to find in any discipline outside astrology itself I would therefore caution any astrology student with this kind of readings unless you are prepared yourself to spend time, quality time, untangling the meaning of each planetary energy for yourself according to the level of your desire for freedom from dogmatic interpretations.
Smiles, rose

[rose]

Dear ShiningRay
I am a great supporter of evolutionary astrology and to be more esplicit I would go as far as saying that there's not any other kind of astrology.I see Astrology -as a tool for communing with our true purpose in life and understanding your own own higher Plan, as well as that of your fellow travellers. If the purpose of ths forum is that of promoting discussions for further understanding, then the aim has been accomplished- (we are discussing! I don't see why you should be (in future times) be careful about your decisions to post some articles, as I said in my post, I think that particular one was written by JWG, I'm not sure, but it looks very much like his kind of approach. Anyway I really value JW Green's work, (it) has provided myself and many others astrologers /students, with many great insights towards the (otherwise) inespicable recesses of our soul s workings and plans. I can only admire him and respect him.
thank you and keep shining!

[jagetoile]

deleted post.

[rose]

hi Shining Ray, (Rose again)
i thought to give you some more cheerful key words for Neptune. As I've already mentioned I struggled with neptunian confusion for a long time. Yes I have been involved with drugs, long time ago, and HONESTLY,I am very grateful for that xperience, Now, hold on, Don't jump into any conclusions: I've learnt in my long life that despite the despair, the unhappiness, difficulties and inability to feel grounded in this life/planet, I am learning to feel very grateful for all the experiences that have and are contribuiting to my personal growth. I can assure that life hasn't been good for me, nevertheless I am integrating a more Graceful acceptance of my whole lot. In my chart Neptune is less than 1 degree conjunct my Sun, Moon and Mars...this lovely bunch sitting in dark depths of the 4th house. I won't go over this in too much depth but Here is the clue for a vibrational jump: as long as I kept thinking that neptune was all about drugs, unconsciousness and sacrifice that was exactly what I was getting. As I kept searching and digging-That's the work of the 4th house- I also came across avery intelligent astrologer who pointed to me the true (st) vibration of Neptune. You 're perhaps noticing how Im switching to the capital Neptune and this is how I (p) refer to the high energy of the Planets. Here it comes: Neptune is pure Spirit, how do we integrate our mystical part of ourselves is where Neptune resides in our chart. Yes it is part of the dream-maya-illusion, that we have forgotten our true origin and feel trapped by this all encompassing, solid-matter reality, but re-member we are just passing by....
Think of the highest ideal that comes to the mind of you heart and there is the place for your mystical experience.
AS far as astrology timing are concerned, (because of its long orbit around the Sun) in this life, hopefully we'll experience only a Neptune square to itself (at about age 45-46) after Uranus opposition (age40-42). At you age (27?) you're just approaching your first Saturn return, an the reason of your dissatisfaction, lies in the need and desire to manifest for yoursel and from yourself something tangible at this crucial point of your life. Saturn wants to give structure to our dreams and desires, that's what your soul is yearning for.Walk your path and don't be worried about the shadows.
Keep your light shining.
rose

[jagetoile]

deleted post.

[dna]

Originally Posted by Shining Ray

On the Pluto readings I read Pluto in Libra I do have this placement but my Pluto also squares Venus so I found his interpretation really helped me to understand this aspect.

.

I would be really interested in seeing his Pluto articles...... I found the Neptune article to be interesting. It was right on. Thanks for posting it.

[rose]

Hi Jag


Meditation comes to my mind, any form of meditation. I think that people with a strong Neptune, angular as in our cases, are in a meditation mode. How else would any intuition (inner wisdom) be possible to have any pratical value in this plane? T.Marks, author of some very good astrology books for "hands in" astrology, refered to Nept as The escalator to heaven. (Tracy marks- The Astrology of Self-discovery) Whenever i go in a "revery" or Day dreaming- space, The Trident God always supplies me with subtles clues or deep revelations as lost treasures long forgotten in the immensity of the oceans. Few years ago, when Neptune was transiting over my Disc, I found myself unable to literally walk outside the front door of my house. A mgnitude of overwhelming feelings of all the people walking down the road would engulf me, tsunamis of fluid, sticky sustance lingering on people, streets and places alike... supermarkets stores and crowded places were a no-no go area. thinking about the "human condition" I would just weep, incosolably.. after awhile I started having this phrase wispered in my mind, "loving detachment....practise loving deatachment." It worked!Caroline Casey reccomends huge doses of solitude (in company of the Self) along with walks and or visits to oceans/beaches in order to empty ourselves and re-member our legacy with the sacred, soul-infused watery element...
Rose

Originally Posted by jagetoile

hi Rose, i perfectly understand your life story, which in itself, very enlightening like Neptune herself. My Natal Neptune is very well aspected but it's in conjunction with my ASC. I don't have problems like yours but i should admit that being overly idealistic and intuitive has still brought me some personal mistakes. Sometimes i just felt that i saw through people so easily that i was almost unseasy with myself. To see their back-thoughts at first sight or them lying made me wonder whether i was not noble myself. While other times i was just bewildered by some typical Neptunian people (usually Neptune square Jupiter, or Neptune square/opposition Mars etc.). I think with a Neptune configuation like mine and yours, it's very worthwhile to keep some distance with certain things or guys. Neptune gives the power for universal love, but it also erases the boundaries. Maybe the best lesson for a Neptunian person is learn to see the limits of things, best, Jag

[lilllybelle]

J.W. Green has had more influence on me than any other astrologer. He gets straight to the point of why we are studying this stuff, to grow. I have learned so much about myself from his books, things that were so hard for me to understand and harder for me to see the patern of. He made me aware of some of my self destructive patterns. I think his stuff is what astrology is all about. I would like to study with him. For some reason, I don't see him making it to be 80 something years old. His health seems frail at times. Maurice Fernandez is another very good evolutionary astrologer. He tends to focus more on Neptune. I went to a lecture of his once, and it was so moving. L.

[rose]

I agree. Jeff wolf Green books on Pluto are just .... explosive! Really plutonian stuff.I visited his web site once and he had the pictures of his newborn baby with a halo around him. there was also a note saying that either he [JG] was going to have surgery or was recovering from an operation. Does anybody knows his web address? rose

Originally Posted by lilllybelle

J.W. Green has had more influence on me than any other astrologer. He gets straight to the point of why we are studying this stuff, to grow. I have learned so much about myself from his books, things that were so hard for me to understand and harder for me to see the patern of. He made me aware of some of my self destructive patterns. I think his stuff is what astrology is all about. I would like to study with him. For some reason, I don't see him making it to be 80 something years old. His health seems frail at times. Maurice Fernandez is another very good evolutionary astrologer. He tends to focus more on Neptune. I went to a lecture of his once, and it was so moving. L.

[Lin]

Shining Ray...
I thought that was a very good article and not too advanced for this forum.

I would have been happier with the entire article if the words "fear and guilt" were added to "idealistic". Of course, they were "implied".. (disillusion)....but it's a funny thing about Neptune and discussing Neptune.... most people are either on one side or the other about it. Neptune lovers get very upset when Neptune is shown in it's most evil light - the ruler of all deceptions, including the worst...addiction... - of COURSE it can mean the "spirit"....and spiritual things.... but...LOL.... in order to be pure spirit you need to be NOT HERE IN THE MATERIAL WORLD> NOT LIVING.

That's the irony of Neptune. Neptune is the "dissolver." That word can be taken as a metaphor, but it can also be actual. As with all the planets, the placement and aspects to and from it are everything.

Those with happily placed Neptune's have no clue to how evil it can be. But a good example is the "artist." Through all time most artists of all types, up to the present musical and dramatic artists, have had Neptune at war with other energies within the psyche.

Just look at alcohol alone...how many billions of lives have been ruined because of it? And it's ruler??? Neptune.
LIN

[Lin]

You're absolutely right when you say that the more 'conscious' you are about how Neptune influences the human being, the better off you are. It IS a tricky planet....THAT is it's function....LOL It's the "trickster god."

My observations come not from my own life, but from clients in my practice and from studying famous Neptunians. I'm not a classic Neptunian... too 9th house for it.... but Neptune has hurt me, and by transit made me practically "invisible" during oppositions and inconjuncts to my Jupiter-Venus conj. in my natal 8th house. Pretty heavy experiences.... almost said "lessons" - but aside from lessons in astrology, I didn't really learn anything from those transits. Yes, the astrological lessons were invaluable, but given a choice, I would druther not have had 'em. I'm lucky I survived them. And basically, that is what those who 'get through' Neptunian events are... survivors.
LIN

[Lin]

Just one more thing (as Columbo says).....
Look, we all need escape. But it's a matter of degree. The fact is that some people drink a glass of wine and feel good, and relaxed and happy in their little altered state....or a whiskey and soda....

It's when you need a couple of BOTTLES of wine, or half a fifth of whiskey to get that little 'buzz' of distraction we all like and need.... that's the difference.

It's nice to go shopping for a new pair of shoes and maybe a pair of gloves or earrings .... or buy a couple of Lotto tix.... it's when you NEED to spend a thousand dollars on stuff you'll never wear, or spend $100 bucks a week gambling, or having anonymous sex on a regular basis that it becomes a Neptunian horror.

We all need a bit of healthy fear....but if we can't function because of it, it's Neptune. Same thing with guilt, jealousy, and "religion". When faith becomes "cult" it's Neptunian.... 12th house.

When Neptune runs amok in the psyche, people get hurt... often irrevocably.
LIN

All a matter of degree.

[jagetoile]

deleted post.

[jagetoile]

deleted post.

[Lin]

Pluto is about power....it's the planet of money and sex. Your having it square Venus in the 5th is about self empowerment. "I have the power to give myself the things I want to make me feel more alive and creating of my own life." The square means that the action is meant to fix something.

In other words, if I buy enough ----------whatever-----------it will fix this issue within me. To know what the issue is I'd have to see your chart.
LIN

[starbuck]

Why so hard on yourself? neptune is about breaking thru the fog and nobody said it was easy. Article interesting

[Belgianmoonguy]

Originally Posted by Shining Ray

Neptune: Spiritual or Psychic Trauma

Neptune in the Fourth House or Cancer: an idealistic expectation that the world, the universe, the origin of all things, the home, and the family is but a universal womb of puritity, simplicity, of love, and of nurturing for and through all. This expectation produces a natural emotional empathy for all, a compassion linked to the common suffering of all. Disillusionment and spiritual trauma occurs to these people through the experience and perception of a natural innocence which exists within themselves, and others, becoming violated, abused, destroyed and contaminated. This experience is based on the ugly realization that impurity exists in others, that others can have malevolent intentions, that the world is no good, and that the soul can be corrupted. The natural child of innocence becomes lost, confused, and alienated within an impure world. An existential void of a godless world now haunts their souls. When Neptune transits the 4th House, forms stressful aspects through transit to the Moon, or the planetary ruler of the 4th House, or to planets in the natal 4th House these traumas can occur.

Although i'm not very pessimist, nor optimist, i know the world isn't full of good people, good circonstances. But that's life in my text book. Just try to make something good of it, for your own. Try to do good, but don't let others misuse you, or don't act too naive...
Also Jupiter is my Ic ruler... I broke with my mother in feb 2004, when Neptune was running towards a conjunction with my nJupiter...
But Pluto was then (and now still) in my 4th house, and is now running towards an exact square to the Moon

Neptune in the Sixth House (transit) or Virgo: an idealistic expectation of collective and individual purity and perfection in all things, of right action. These expectations are judged against some ultimate standard of conduct. For these people purity and perfection is unconsciously linked to the desire to sacrifice oneself, the ego, to the principle of service to another, others, or the Whole. These people carry an unconscious yet pervading undefined guilt that needs to he atoned for. This leads to the creation of personal crisis and masochistic type behavior, a behavior defined by the unconscious that leads to personal crucifixion to that which is impure and unholy. Psychic or spiritual trauma occurs through creating a life of suffering in a variety of ways including physical illnesses which can not be explained, cured or properly diagnosed. Trauma occurs via an inability to understand why their suffering persists despite every effort to purify and atone for themselves through personal sacrifice. When Neptune transits the Sixth House, forms stressful aspects thru transits to natal Mercury, planets within the natal Sixth House, or to the planetary ruler of the Sixth House it can generate these issues and subsequent traumas.

Neptune in the Seventh House or Libra: an idealistic expectation that all people are essentially pure and good in general, and those that they form intimate relationships with specifically. An unconscious desire to rescue or save people through masochistic self-sacrifice, a desire to heal the hurts of their intimate partners, and to have their own sufferings and hurts healed by others; and especially by their intimate partners. These individuals "see" the potential and spirit in all people, their partners in particular, and expect that potential to be actualized. Through identifying with another's inner spirit these individuals can experience disillusionment and great pain when the other's actual reality prevails in ways that seem contradictory to what he or she wants to see or believe. Disillusionment and trauma can occur when these individuals realize that they have given themselves away to another, and that they have nothing to show for it but pain and needs that have gone unfulfilled. In addition, these individuals idealistically expect the dynamics of giving and receiving, of equality, of justice, and of fair play to prevail in all human interactions, and especially between themselves and their intimate other. When these expectations go unfulfilled, when life experience teaches them that these ideals rarely occur, tremendous disillusionment and trauma can occur. When Neptune transits the Seventh House, forms stressful aspects thru transit to Venus, natal planets in the Seventh House, or to the planetary ruler of the Seventh House it can generate these issues and subsequent traumas. (Neptune rules my Dc)
I see the good in all people, but I also know some won't express their good and will stay neutral or even evil... I'm attracted to lost cases, problemcases... And while i act like i have my stuff good together in other life areas, my relational life is most of the time a mess...
Also tNeptune runs towards a square with my nVenus... May be that can be one of the astrological causes why I'm afraid to initiate something in love matters for the moment...

Neptune in the Tenth House or Capricorn: idealistic expectations about the nature of family structures, societal structures, and the structure of the world itself. The essence of these expectations is based on the principle of sacrificing oneself, the ego, for a larger good; to others. The principle of sacrifice can have many forms, many applications. There is an unconscious expectation that purity and right action should define and prevail in any activity: large and small. These individuals are typically defined by an unconscious and uneasy feeling of guilt; that they have done something wrong, or that there is something wrong with them. Thus, there is a need to correct or atone for that guilt. As a result, this can generate life experiences in which their unconscious ideals of purity and right action, of egocentric self-sacrifice to the Other, are violated: the abusive father, the emotionally unavailable parent, the narcissistic husband or wife, the needy of this world who latch onto these people for dear life and abuse what is offered, the imperfect worlds that violates the expectation of purity and right action, etc. Over time these kinds of experiences can generate a horrible, depressive disillusionment and trauma that can create severe bouts of depression. This trauma can lead to a life in which these people struggle to throw off the undermining feelings of being continually defeated by life itself. In addition, disillusionment and trauma can occur through the experience that what is considered "real" becomes "unreal". Nothing seems to be permanent, nothing seems to last, and that the very nature of "reality" is but transitional images that come and go. And that what is "real" is only real for the time that it actually exists. Accordingly, cycles of despair, of fighting off an inner feeling of being consumed by a dark, bottomless pit define the inner world of these individuals. As a result, these individuals create a fundamental fear of loosing control and, yet, longing to do so. Paradoxically, many of these people will seem like beacons of salvation light to others because of this inner world. This is because these people know their inner pain so well, that it serves to motivate them to heal the suffering of others. This symbol, Neptune in Capricorn, or the Tenth House, is the ultimate symbol of the crucifixion of the ego. If you doubt this consider that Jesus was put on the Cross when Neptune transited Capricorn in his time. When Neptune transits the Tenth House, forms stressful aspects through transits to Saturn, the planetary ruler of the Tenth House, or to planets within the natal Tenth House, it can generate these issues and subsequent traumas.

Guilt... I know it... most of the time a guilt i can't trace... Some I can... I know my inner pain well, but do like to ignore it... And sometimes i feel there's something wrong with me, but i don't know what...

I thought I would post this interesting article I read on Neptune.
Shining Ray

Well
For the moment tNeptune is in my 6th house conjunct Jupiter, although the conjunction is separating...
My nNeptune sits in the 4th house in Capricorn opposing my Sun...
And he rules my Dc (7th house)...

I consider myself a Neptunian, it makes a lot of aspects, a opposition to my Sun...
Interesting, Sun rules my 12th house and Neptune rules my 7th and 8th
Sometimes i feel that relations pull me away from my self... May be that's why why i prefer the single life for a moment (add a Virgo Moon to the mix, who finds little ppl good enough to share their life/ bed with)

A 135° with Venus... Relations were shady, ambigouos, from my part or her part...

A square with the Moon although out of sign... Moon, ruler of the 11th, friends can be of great inspiration, but sometimes draining... some ppl i knew also experiment with dope...

When Neptune was on my nJupiter in the 6th exactly (summer of 2005), i met the woman i was emotional involved with... until now, i didn't find someone who provoked such strong emotional feelings in me...

The things i typed in red, are some personal comments on the Neptune in 4/ Cancer, Neptune in 10/ Capricorn

Great post...

[Mikey279x]

I'm not sure if I have Neptune in the tenth or the ninth.. it looks like it's on a cusp.. I always have vivid daydreams and it seems soo creative that half my subconscious is almost drawn into them.. every day dream usually involves saving the world in some way and I'm always one of the people for saving the masses. There have been many occasions where I almost felt like a ghost walking by people and picking up all of their emotions. I always have a feeling that when I amass a huge amount of money that'd I'd give it all away to those who are suffering.

I definatly want to be involved in entertainment industry though and make movies.

I'm not sure if my neptunes in 9th house or 10th house though..

[starbuck]

Either way it seems to have left an impression on your career choice and what a good choice it is.
As you say:..when I amass a huge amount of money..now we're speaking Capricorn's language so there is hope of much success and pse don't throw it all away! Rather build (capricorn) an institution for the less fortunate (pisces) and empower them with your wow (leo). we know you can do it

[Mikey279x]

Originally Posted by starbuck

Either way it seems to have left an impression on your career choice and what a good choice it is.
As you say:..when I amass a huge amount of money..now we're speaking Capricorn's language so there is hope of much success and pse don't throw it all away! Rather build (capricorn) an institution for the less fortunate (pisces) and empower them with your wow (leo). we know you can do it

haha thanks I definetly will follow through it!! theres no doubt in my mind! I'm just looking forword to the early years spending my time with other film directors and lost artists and actors trying to achive their creative dreams!!
th's be a paradise!!

[AquariusMoon]

Shining Ray, I hope you're feeling better. Neptune can be very rough.

Thanks for sharing the JWG. Actually, I can relate much more to the interp for the sign my Neptune is in rather than the house that it's in, but can relate a bit to the house. My Neptune is in H10 Libra, and I had a very hard time deciding what to do for a living. Nothing sounded good at the time. My mom ended up deciding my occupation for me. I really prefer not working, so will take sabbaticals now and then. I worked with entertainment and business lawyers. My Neptune trines Mars and sextiles Jupiter, and I did put my husband on a pedestal, so got disillusioned from time to time, but have thoroughly learned my lesson. At least I hope so!

[willowwhit]

I am curious about how many of you whose eye was caught by this thread were born in 1952. Many or we water dragons are coming into our own in one way or another--waking up almost. It is said it takes fifty years to grow a dragon. That's true but for me, Neptune opposing my natal Pluto is making me recognize what Neptune is for me. I knew the words but never "got it" until recently. That is in part because it was so deep within, or "all around" me that i had no perspective on it. If one spends all their time in water, or drunk, or smokes cigarettes daily, how could they possibly know how it feels, when that is all they feel? Neptune has been like that for me.

[tsquare]

Hi Shing Ray, keep sharing the good stuff, thats what were here for.
And thats to everyone else too.

I have alot of neptune influince in my chart as well. in the first house in sagitarius.... still wondering about the corion opposition to it as well. neptune is also square to my midheaven in Virgo. its also involved in a opposition to venus in gemini which creates a tsquare with the midheaven and neptune.all the more I can read the better. Thank you
Bits and pieces as I go.

[Neptune Rising]

I love these articles, thank you Shining Ray.

Originally Posted by tsquare

I have alot of neptune influince in my chart as well. in the first house in sagitarius....

I also have Neptune conjunct ascendant in Sagitariaus (North Node conjunct those too but not too sure what influence that may have), Moon in Pisces square Neptune and Asc.

I used to think everyone was as honest as me, I know now that is far from the truth. Even so, I believe in being as honest with myself as possible, and being honest and open with others as much as possible. I do have a belief that if I believe in other people to be their best, they will be as much of their best as they can be.

My self of self, well, I've given up trying to find that and define that , and in giving up trying, I find some peace. When all else fails, meditation helps soothe, I've found.

Neptune