Astrology On The News!!!!!

[cl0udmaKer]

On the news this morning they were talking about how the zodiac needs

"updating" since the earth has shifted back 23.5 degrees that means all your signs in your chart move back

that many degrees too! so I WAS RIGHT VEDIC ASTROLOGY IS
RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Olivia]

Jyotish works. Tibetan astrology works. Persian astrology works. Western predictive astrology works. And some of those use the tropical zodiac. But whether you use a tropical or sidereal system, you need a competent astrologer.

Western psychological and modern astrology I have reservations about, and I don't practise either of them, but assuming it's in the hands of a knowledgeable psychologist, it might work, too. I'm just not too clear on what it's actually supposed to do, nor have I been terribly impressed with what I've heard from psychologist-astrologers. But that doesn't mean there aren't any good ones out there.

Persian and western systems tie the constellations to the equinoxes, sidearealists don't. But either system could be considered 'flawed' by astronomers and debunkers, because some constellations are huge (way more than 30 degrees) and some are tiny. Plus there are constellations on top of other constellations, like Ophicus, which nobody uses at all (except three new agers).

They're kind of missing the point of the symbolic aspect of the zodiac.

[cl0udmaKer]

actually no they just said since the earth shifted 23.5 WESTERN astrology needs

updating since vedic already goes with equinox. And the other constellations

haven't moved just the earth so yeaH!! hah and i dont really know what your

talking about them working or not there all the same just like jupiter in libra or

sun in virgo or anything like that just like a normal birth chart

[Olivia]

What I'm talking about is none of the constellations in the zodiac measures out at 30 degrees. Some span 60 degrees, some span 14 degrees.

Therefore, whether you use a tropical or sidereal zodiac, the planets aren't actually lining up with the REAL constellations in the sky, they're lining up with the symbolic, 30-degree constellations that are used by astrologers who work with either the sidereal or tropical zodiac.

[cl0udmaKer]

then why does it matter, are you trying to say theres 60 degrees instead of 30?yeah pretty sure thats BS

[Olivia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac#...constellations

In part:

It is important to distinguish the zodiacal signs from the constellations associated with them, not only because of their drifting apart due to the precession of equinoxes but also because the physical constellations by nature of their varying shapes and forms take up varying widths of the ecliptic. Thus, Virgo takes up fully five times as much ecliptic longitude as Scorpius....

[waybread]

Originally Posted by cl0udmaKer

On the news this morning they were talking about how the zodiac needs

"updating" since the earth has shifted back 23.5 degrees that means all your signs in your chart move back

that many degrees too! so I WAS RIGHT VEDIC ASTROLOGY IS
RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This isn't news to astrologers who understand the precession of the equinoxes.

[cl0udmaKer]

Originally Posted by Olivia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac#...constellations

In part:

It is important to distinguish the zodiacal signs from the constellations associated with them, not only because of their drifting apart due to the precession of equinoxes but also because the physical constellations by nature of their varying shapes and forms take up varying widths of the ecliptic. Thus, Virgo takes up fully five times as much ecliptic longitude as Scorpius....

yeah im sure if constellations did anything astrologers would be using them, cause im not a virgo!!!!!!

[cl0udmaKer]

Originally Posted by eternalautumn

cl0udmaKer: You seem to be quite ignorant. Perhaps I can help enlighten you.

The Zodiac signs as we use them were originally based on the actual constellations they were named after. However, because each constellation was not 30 degrees in length, the ancients "invented" the Zodiac, which is a "generalization" of the constellations, a version in which they are all 30 degrees. In the beginning, this Zodiac overlayed the constellations pretty well. But with the precession of the equinoxes, the actual physical constellations have moved, but the "overlayed" Zodiac has stayed in the same place. That is what the article is talking about, and it should not be news to any astrologer, because that is something you learn pretty early on, at least if you're serious about studying astrology.

But, I think you're a troll. Have fun getting banned.

of course there not in 30 degrees thats why they separated them from

eachother by making them different signs and they studied those individual

points to match each sign and yeah i know about the equinox too!! thats

what this whole thing is about vedic astrologers already use the equinox

(shifting of the world going backwards) and now the news is talking about it
so now other websites will update their stuff to match the degrees! DUH

[deleted attacking comment - Moderator]

[wilsontc]

All,

Please get back on the subject under discussion and leave off with the insults. There is a lot of debate among astrologer on which is the "right" zodiac and why. This debate can be productive if it leads to others understanding each others views and the reasons why each zodiac exists, but the debate can not be productive if people start insulting each other in the middle of the debate.

Civilly,

Tim

[cl0udmaKer]

NO finish it here i want to know what these "constellations" are all about and why they aren't used in a normal birth chart cause seriously.. iv'e never even heard about them having any effect on degrees or anything like that until Olivia said

[eternalautumn]

The constellations... If you don't know what the constellations are, I don't know what to tell you. Google it?

They're not used in a "normal" birth chart because we don't use the constellations for astrology, we use the Zodiac.

They don't have any effect on "degrees". The tropical Zodiac has stayed in the same place it originally was, and hasn't shifted with the equinoxes. The sidereal Zodiac has shifted with the equinoxes, and that's why when you change a chart from tropical to sidereal the signs change.

However, none of this is new to astrologers. The fact that whatever news agency posted a random article about it recently does not mean it was recently discovered.

[Olivia]

Originally Posted by cl0udmaKer

NO finish it here i want to know what these "constellations" are all about and why they aren't used in a normal birth chart cause seriously.. iv'e never even heard about them having any effect on degrees or anything like that until Olivia said

I thought your point was that Jyotish astrology is 'astronomically correct' and western astrology isn't. Apparently that's not your point.

The constellations are made up of stars, and uh...look them up. An astronomy primer for children, or your local planetarium should have all this information, as will the Internet. You might also want to look up in the sky and see them, providing you can see stars from where you live.

You also know that the planets all have different distances from the Sun so they don't crash into each other when they conjunct, yes? As well as different orbital speeds, that retrograde is an optical illusion as seen from earth, because planets don't actually go backwards, but when they're very slow in orbit (and always relative to their position with regards to the Sun) they sometimes appear to go backwards from our view here on earth, yes?

My point was that any system of astrology is based in symbolism to some degree, including Jyotish.

[cl0udmaKer]

Originally Posted by eternalautumn

The constellations... If you don't know what the constellations are, I don't know what to tell you. Google it?

They're not used in a "normal" birth chart because we don't use the constellations for astrology, we use the Zodiac.

They don't have any effect on "degrees". The tropical Zodiac has stayed in the same place it originally was, and hasn't shifted with the equinoxes. The sidereal Zodiac has shifted with the equinoxes, and that's why when you change a chart from tropical to sidereal the signs change.

However, none of this is new to astrologers. The fact that whatever news agency posted a random article about it recently does not mean it was recently discovered.

DO YOU NOT GET IT. the earth HAS SHIFTED making all different types of astrolgy shift 23.5 degrees BACK sidereel has already been doing this but western hasnt thats all i wanted to say.

@ olivia yeah i already know that so your saying sidereel also goes with the constellations? well ok im still a libra in sidreel

[eternalautumn]

DO YOU NOT GET IT. the earth HAS SHIFTED making all different types of astrolgy shift 23.5 degrees BACK sidereel as already been doing this but western hasnt thats all i wanted to say.

No, I do not get it. Please explain it for me. I'm awfully confused.

[Olivia]

Originally Posted by cl0udmaKer

DO YOU NOT GET IT. the earth HAS SHIFTED making all different types of astrolgy shift 23.5 degrees BACK sidereel as already been doing this but western hasnt thats all i wanted to say.

@ olivia yeah i already know that so your saying sidereel also goes with the constellations? well ok im still a libra in sidreel

No, sidereal does NOT go with the constellations. It uses the zodiac, just like western astrology does.

[Olivia]

Dude, why don't you just spend a couple hours today looking up this stuff? The wiki link I provided is a start. Wikipedia isn't always fantastic, but this is basic stuff - and there are lots more sites online, too, that will explain this to you.

[cl0udmaKer]

Originally Posted by Olivia

No, sidereal does NOT go with the constellations. It uses the zodiac, just like western astrology does.

YEAH it uses the zodiac like EVERYthing does, TELL ME ONE thing that actually uses the constellations the constellations aren't meant to be used in astrology unless your just measuring the distance away from them which makes up the zodiac.

[deleted attacking comment - Moderator]

[cl0udmaKer]

Originally Posted by eternalautumn

I would ask to borrow yours, but it seems to be under heavy duress.

[attacking comment deleted - Moderator] since astrology began it was really accurate but then like 3000 yrs later since the earth has shifted from its axis because of gravity and such things its moved which means its pointing in different directions in the stars.

[cl0udmaKer]

Originally Posted by eternalautumn

...I still don't get it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_p...ion_(astronomy)

[Olivia]

Western astrology does use fixed stars. It also realises that they do move, albeit slowly. Which we keep up with - we don't use fixed star positions from 2000 years ago, or even 100 years ago if we're looking at a chart drawn for today.

I'm still not understanding the problem with the tropical zodiac, but I'm obviously not terribly bright, like everyone besides you who's posted in this thread.

[cl0udmaKer]

ok im sorry i didn't want to be mean or anything you guys were just making it hard, ok let me make it easy. western astrology does not use the axis shift which is 23.5 degrees backwards so for example if you where a virgo in the 26th degree then you'd be a virgo in the 3rd degree. sidereel however does use the axis shift of the earth also known as the "precession of equinox".

[07.Re]

This article is what cl0udmaKer is referring to:

http://www.nbc-2.com/Global/story.asp?S=13828331

The star doctors say Earth is currently in a different spot in relation to the Sun, and its equatorial alignment has changed from 3,000 years ago when the study of astrology began -- back when 12 zodiac signs were assigned to 12 different periods of the year.

Those signs you were born into are different now because the Earth's wobble on its axis has created a one-month bump in the alignment of the stars, according to Kunkle.

"Because of this change of tilt, the Earth is really over here in effect and Sun is in a different constellation than it was 3,000 years ago."

What that means to you is a Virgo may now be a Leo, an Aquarius - a Capricorn, and a Taurus - an Aries.

[cl0udmaKer]

^^^ yupp thats the one but their dates are wrong i think idk w/e if im a virgo thats fine with me.

[waybread]

Olivia, I am not the brightest bulb in the chandelier either, but I'll see if I get this correct for the others.

OK--does everybody know what the equinox is? As the earth rotates around the sun, the north pole tilts away from the sun during winter in the northern hemisphere, and closer towards it during winter in the northern hemisphere. The equinoxes are times when there is no discernable tilt--hence north of the equater we would perceive days and nights as being of equal length.

The precession of the equinoxes means that the moment of the spring equinox (or fall, for that matter) has been slipping backwards through the zodiac, due to a wobble in the earth's rotation. if you think of an axis running through the north and south poles, the orientation of that axis has been moving slowly, over thousands of years. From earth, it would appear that the spring equinox date has been moving backwards in time. When astrology was first invented, the spring equinox was in Taurus. Then it moved into Aries--hence our 0 degrees Aries as around March 21. Around the time of Jesus, it slipped into Pisces. The Age of Aquarius means that at our present time, the equinox is moving into the sign of Aquarius. Each "age" lasts roughly 2000 years.

So this is a problem, so long as astrologers (whether western or Vedic) are committed to dividing up the heavens in 30-degree pie sectors. If you keep pace with precession, as with the sidereal zodiac, you lose the connection with the seasons--at least as they exist in the southern temperate regions of the northern hemisphere, where the ancient Greek astrologers lived. Your equinoxes are constantly slipping backwards in time. On the other hand, if you keep your 30-degree pie sectors fixed to the 4 seasons and a solar calendar, then bye-bye an approximate overlap with the constellations.

As Olivia noted above, the constellations along the ecliptic are of variable widths, plus some of them overlap in space or leave gaps, so when ancient astrologers decided on 30-degree signs, the correspondence between zodiacal signs and constellations [star-groupings] was severed. Some constellational astrology could be preserved with the analysis of fixed stars, although in the tropical zodiac, today a "Virgo" might have the sun conjunct a fixed star in the constellation Leo.

There are a few astrologers (plus the Rudolf Steiner biodynamic crowd) who do believe a constellational astrology is more accurate. But not most.