What does traditional astrology have to say about the 8th?

[MTTY05]

Greetings AW,

Ever since I got into astrology (I guess around 2004-ish) I always been aware of my 8th house stellium, and what modern astrology thinks of it. For example..."You're real sexy, and will probably marry someone with lots of money." Yada, yada, yada, okay so I already knew that.

I've only recently been curious about traditional astrology, and I guess the best place to begin is with my own chart, since that's where I started when I began studying modern astrology.

I'm assuming an 8th stellium would be interpreted in a drastically different way in traditional astrology since it doesn't seem to be as optimistic as modern astrology is. Is it correct to assume that an 8th stellium in traditional astrology indicates a life of misfortune, losses, and heavy taxation? Maybe a 2nd house stellium would be good, but an 8th stellium sounds really bad to me from a traditional point of view. I say this despite not really knowing much about traditional, so could someone clear this up for me? I would really appreciate it. I've attached an equal house chart since I guess that's what traditional astrology uses.

[astrologer50]

The Mysteries of the 8th House: House of Death & Transformation
by Carmen Turner-Schott
http://www.ofspirit.com/carmenturnerschott1.htm

[Olivia]

Didn't even see this. Let me put it in Alchabitius houses (if you want trad... )



Interp will have to wait for a cup of coffee, though!

[MTTY05]

A50, thnx for the link. That was a really good read.

Olivia, I'm glad you replied! Gosh, I've never even heard of Alchabitius before, I'll have to look into that more. Obviously, I had no clue what house system traditional astrologers use, haha.

I can't wait to see what you have to say.

[Olivia]

You actually have a pretty peaceful-looking chart - in a good way. Now, I don't like doing purely blind readings, because as you know if you've done modern, a planet can mean any number of things and sometimes you have to ask the client. But with that caveat in mind....

The eighth house is mostly known as 'the idle place' - planets often don't do a lot there. The more serious problem would be that everything in your eighth is combust - except the Sun, of course.

Combustion means a planet within 8.5 degrees of the Sun - which doesn't, in my experience, so much take away the planet's strength, more transfers it to the service of the Sun. Mostly, this tends to make people pretty single-minded - in your case, in a number of areas. Sometimes everything's personal - even when it's not.

Sun rules 8 and is in 8, and given that I'd a) take care of my back, and b) watch out for heart disease. Doesn't look like you're anywhere near that yet, but not a lot of carbohydrates, eat a decent amount of fat that isn't hydrogenated (avoid most vegetable oils save extra virgin olive, coconut cream, flax), and protein. Most white fish is good, it's wet. Lamb and fowl of any kind (except carrion) good choices for meats. Eggs are good - they have some very interesting fats not found elswhere, and since you're primarily melancholic by temperament, you need some warm, wet foods to help balance your system. Wet, especially, you need. Again, I emphasise it's not likely a problem now but start now and it won't be a massive problem in 30 years - you know?

I always sort of envy melancholic types because they're the great thinkers of the world. In your case, higher education may be problematic, or cost more than you can afford, but either you'll make the sacrifice and do it despite, or you'll find some way to learn.

Veterinarian, physician, or even poet/painter are not bad career ideas, though your mind seems to incline to money, so maybe the poetry/art of some kind could be a hobby, there could also be a lot of talent in the performing arts, as well as fine arts. You look to have good manual dexterity as well as brains. Or, of course, you could go the 'traditional' eighth house route of investment banking, insurance, things that deal with other people's money. But I would look into a medical field of some sort - unless I'm very mistaken, you have a lot of talent there.

Good inheritance - also very likely. Even without, you should be fine for money.

Good marriage - yes, though it may be delayed a bit (I haven't run numbers, but maybe around age 30-33 or so). You'll leave someone you're already involved with when you meet your spouse-to-be. He or she is likely foreign, educated, or someone you'll meet through travelling, religious (not fundamentalist, and perhaps not orthodox, but it's there), good person, magnanimous, older than you. And a good friend, as well.

The bad: Saturn is squaring everything in 8, which gives lower vitality, and has caused some obstacles and loss around your father and home life, your love life, possibly a nagging health problem. On the other hand, all those eighth planets trine the ascendant and IC, and sextile the MC, so on balance, mostly overcome-able.

Chart ruler and almuten figuris is Mercury, that's the basic impulse behind all of it, and also the backbone of whatever spirituality/life philosophy you hold.

Granted, I've only given it the once-over, but it looks like you're going to have a pretty good life. I don't like the Saturn square, but it does look like you have the resources to mitigate the worst effects.

Did a sibling pre-decease? That's a possibility, though on balance there's far more good than bad involved with brothers and sisters, cousins, neighbours. Day-to-day life looks pleasant, and largely beneficial.

Herein ends the abbreviated tale of horror and woe brought to you courtesy of traditional astrology. Ask or PM if there's anything you're wildly curious about, but it really doesn't look like a bad chart. Yes, I'd get those planets out of eight if I could because there's going to be a dampening effect on them, but they're connected enough to the angles of the chart that it doesn't look terrible, either.

[Kukka]

Hello, here's a good site of traditional astrology.

http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/

[MTTY05]

Omg, thx for the detailed response, Olivia!

Originally Posted by Olivia

The eighth house is mostly known as 'the idle place' - planets often don't do a lot there. The more serious problem would be that everything in your eighth is combust - except the Sun, of course.

Combustion means a planet within 8.5 degrees of the Sun - which doesn't, in my experience, so much take away the planet's strength, more transfers it to the service of the Sun. Mostly, this tends to make people pretty single-minded - in your case, in a number of areas. Sometimes everything's personal - even when it's not.

Good to finally know exactly what combustion is. I never really understood it before. Nevermind what I thought it was because my assumptions didn't even make sense, lol. The 8.5 degree does make sense though. I always kind of considered my Virgo cluster to just be kind of one planet anyway, so again, it makes sense.

Originally Posted by Olivia

not a lot of carbohydrates, eat a decent amount of fat that isn't hydrogenated... , and since you're primarily melancholic by temperament, you need some warm, wet foods to help balance your system. Wet, especially, you need. Again, I emphasise it's not likely a problem now but start now and it won't be a massive problem in 30 years - you know?

Yea, I think I definitley need to start doing that now, as I don't want my tummy getting any bigger. I'm not pudgy by any means, but I do think the potential is there for me to become so. And you are right about my temperament too. I do certain things to try and stay balanced, but I think I just knock myself out of whack more. Eating right, with wet food could be key.

Originally Posted by Olivia

I always sort of envy melancholic types because they're the great thinkers of the world. In your case, higher education may be problematic, or cost more than you can afford, but either you'll make the sacrifice and do it despite, or you'll find some way to learn.

Wow, you really hit the nail on the head there. I went to school, did stupid stuff, and wasted a bunch of time and opportunities. And now I owe that University too much money to go back right now. So yes, it turned out to be quite problematic and expensive. I plan on returning sooner rather than later though. Where'd you see that in my chart? 3rd/9th axis? I wish I had seen this in my chart back in 2005, lol. Are there any indicators of when I'll finally restart and graduate?

Originally Posted by Olivia

Good marriage - yes, though it may be delayed a bit (I haven't run numbers, but maybe around age 30-33 or so). You'll leave someone you're already involved with when you meet your spouse-to-be. He or she is likely foreign, educated, or someone you'll meet through travelling, religious (not fundamentalist, and perhaps not orthodox, but it's there), good person, magnanimous, older than you. And a good friend, as well.

Well that's perfect! I don't consider 30-33 to be much of a delay at all, as I don't think I'd want to be married during my 20's anyway, even if I met the perfect woman. Leaving someone I'm already involved with sounds like it could be the worst thing I'll ever do to someone though, but I could see it. "Foreign, educated, religious"... is this from my 9th house moon placement? Is 30-33 more of a ballpark figure, or is that pretty accurate? Do you see kids too?

Originally Posted by Olivia

Did a sibling pre-decease? That's a possibility, though on balance there's far more good than bad involved with brothers and sisters, cousins, neighbours.

I'm seriously shocked that you could've figured that out just by looking at my chart!!. Yes, I had a sister who passed away before I was born. Really though, my closest friends don't even know about that. Where in my chart did you see that? 3rd house/Jupiter? That's incredible.

Originally Posted by Olivia

Herein ends the abbreviated tale of horror and woe brought to you courtesy of traditional astrology. Ask or PM if there's anything you're wildly curious about, but it really doesn't look like a bad chart. Yes, I'd get those planets out of eight if I could because there's going to be a dampening effect on them, but they're connected enough to the angles of the chart that it doesn't look terrible, either.

Well I'm glad you were able to put me at ease, lol. I guess I was thinking of all the negative connotations that are associated with the 8th, and thought I may be connected in some way. Thanks.

[Olivia]

Hi Mtty -

Well, I'm glad to put your mind to rest on a few things - it really doesn't look like you have a horrible life, the chart struck me as quite peaceful overall.

The problems with higher education are shown by your South Node in 9 - South Node is a malefic in traditonal astrology, and the house it shows up in is usually corrupted or beset by difficulties in some way. You also have Moon in 9 on the fixed star Zosma, which indicates sacrifice and hardship, and it looked like education was the area it hit. I'm serious about going back, though, or at least finding some kind of professional training - you have too much talent to let it go to waste. Given your North Node is in 3, which is areas local to you, and your immediate neighbourhood, and that tends to be a fortunate influence, perhaps there's some way to continue your education nearby?

The marriage looks easy because you have Moon (7th house ruler) in the 9th, in sextile to Saturn (1st house ruler) in 11. They're both good houses and Moon receives Saturn by rulership, sextile is an easy aspect. Moon does square the 7th cusp itself, though, indicating another involvement happening when you meet your wife-to-be. I looked at your firdar and directed your ascendant by term to get your approximate age.

I'm so sorry about your sister's death. It's shown by Mars ruling 3, which is your siblings, cousins, people of your generation in the family, and being combust in 8 - which, sadly, is still the house of death. The ruler of your 3rd being so prominent there, as well as connecting to your parents (4th and 10th cusps, your mother is also represented by Mars) show the loss.

As to children of your own, I'd want to look at a few other things first before giving a definite yea or nay. Regardless, your marriage does look very good.

You're in a good firdar now, until the end of March of this year (Saturn-Mercury is good for you) so if you have any opportunities - take advantage of them. Again, I stress school and/or professional training.

[Claire19]

Mercury in the 8th can show a pre deceased sibling. However I dont lump cousins in with neighbours or friends. They belong to aunt's children or uncles..........6th + 5th or conversely 12th + 5th so either 10th or 4th houses depending on what side of the family. This I have borne out in my experience......

I also have an 8th house stellium and use modern astrology but I am anything but idle. For me it is inheritance, crises and transformations, life and death matters, debts and loans, gifts and shared resources such as investments.
It deals with the occult, secret activities and the sexual orgasm or the "little death" of sex. It is rather a heavy house actually.

[Olivia]

That's the modern opinion, Claire. In trad it's a bit different. The eighth house is not related to sex, that falls under the aegis of the fifth house.

Also, a planet being in the 8th, or idle place, isn't the same as a person being there.

The OP is versed in modern astrology, and asked for a traditionalist perspective, which is what I provided. He's certainly free to agree or disagree as he sees fit.

[MTTY05]

Originally Posted by Olivia

Hi Mtty -

Given your North Node is in 3, which is areas local to you, and your immediate neighbourhood, and that tends to be a fortunate influence, perhaps there's some way to continue your education nearby?

That's something I've been looking into for the past few years now. Problem is that the other University would have to be paid back before I could can entrance into another school. The bill is rather hefty, but progress is (slowly) being achieved.

Originally Posted by Olivia

I'm so sorry about your sister's death. It's shown by Mars ruling 3, which is your siblings, cousins, people of your generation in the family, and being combust in 8 - which, sadly, is still the house of death. The ruler of your 3rd being so prominent there, as well as connecting to your parents (4th and 10th cusps, your mother is also represented by Mars) show the loss.

As to children of your own, I'd want to look at a few other things first before giving a definite yea or nay. Regardless, your marriage does look very good.

Oh, I see. So since my mother is represented by Mars does that mean that the mother is shown in the 10th house rather than the 4th in trad? I am familiar with my father and the paternal side of my family, but I haven't been around my mother or their family since I was 1 year old, and I don't know if I'll ever see her again... nor do I really know if that would actually be a good idea. The rulers of my 4th and 10th are in the 8th so would that show any family disconnection/seperation?

[dr. farr]

Originally Posted by Kukka

Hello, here's a good site of traditional astrology.

http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/

Thank you for this link; it is an excellent resource for Hellenistic (Greco - Roman) astrological thinking (which is itself not exactly the same as what we now call traditionalist astrology) My own outlook is significantly influenced by Hellenistic considerations, mixed with somewhat later "Arabic" astrology and-despite these influences-a considerable "dose" of Modernist astrology as well!
Thanks again for the link.

[Olivia]

In trad, yes, the family generally is 4, specifically the father. The mother takes 10 as the father's partner.

In a way, it very much does show the family situation. Mars rules both your mother and siblings, Venus rules your father.

When I first looked at it, my impression was that you were born into a house of mourning, with both parents - and a sibling - in the 8th house.

One of the other meanings of combustion is someone or something you can't see - that's the literal astronomical effect on a planet - when it's combust, it's not visible in the night sky.

In your case, as you've seen - not only was it your sister's death, but the planets representing your parents are literally separated by the Sun. Aside from it ruling death in your chart, I really haven't tried to work out the specific symbolism. But it does look important.

[MTTY05]

Originally Posted by Olivia

The eighth house is not related to sex, that falls under the aegis of the fifth house.

As to children of your own, I'd want to look at a few other things first before giving a definite yea or nay. Regardless, your marriage does look very good.

I'm glad to hear about the marriage, but I noticed that my 5th house ruler is in the 8th just like Mars, ruler of the 3rd & 10th. Rulerships that maybe led to absences that weren't all that pleasant. Ruler of the 5th in the 8th kind of looks like the death future children to me? What do you think?

[Olivia]

That alone I wouldn't take as a definite 'no'. Mercury has very high essential dignity - it's in rulership and exaltation both in Virgo, despite it's eighth house placement and square to Saturn. It also pushes some dignity onto Venus, which is a good thing, as Venus falls in Virgo.

What does concern me is that your Lot of Children falls at 27 Leo, which is - within the eighth house and the Sun's domain.

But bear in mind this: your wife does look to be older, Cancer is on your seventh cusp of partners and is a fertile sign, and the Moon is in Jupiter's sign, and Jupiter is the natural ruler of children. It's possible that the woman you marry will have children of her own by the time you meet - and that could work out well.

I don't think Merc in 8 automatically points to your own children dying, but the Lot of Children being in Leo in 8 and Gemini being a 'bleh' sign as far as fertility goes - not the worst, but not the best by far - it may be difficulty conceiving - for any number of reasons - more than death of children.

[MTTY05]

Originally Posted by Claire19

I also have an 8th house stellium and use modern astrology but I am anything but idle. For me it is inheritance, crises and transformations, life and death matters, debts and loans, gifts and shared resources such as investments.

Yea, I've had to deal with a bit of that, maybe in part because of 8th house influences. Especially the parts about crises/transformations, and debts/loans. Seems to shape a lot of things for me right now.

[MTTY05]

Originally Posted by Kukka

Hello, here's a good site of traditional astrology.

http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/

Ahh, good link here. I can definitley tell the difference in some of the interpretations here. thanks for that.

[MTTY05]

Originally Posted by Olivia

That alone I wouldn't take as a definite 'no'. Mercury has very high essential dignity - it's in rulership and exaltation both in Virgo, despite it's eighth house placement and square to Saturn. It also pushes some dignity onto Venus, which is a good thing, as Venus falls in Virgo.

What does concern me is that your Lot of Children falls at 27 Leo, which is - within the eighth house and the Sun's domain.

But bear in mind this: your wife does look to be older, Cancer is on your seventh cusp of partners and is a fertile sign, and the Moon is in Jupiter's sign, and Jupiter is the natural ruler of children. It's possible that the woman you marry will have children of her own by the time you meet - and that could work out well.

I don't think Merc in 8 automatically points to your own children dying, but the Lot of Children being in Leo in 8 and Gemini being a 'bleh' sign as far as fertility goes - not the worst, but not the best by far - it may be difficulty conceiving - for any number of reasons - more than death of children.

Oh ok, good then. I was connecting the dots there and thought I saw something bad, I think. Thanks again, for listening today.

[Olivia]

Not a problem - seriously. The money situation will ease up eventually, too. You've got Fortuna on the second cusp, which is A Good Thing for money, 2 (your money) is ruled by Saturn in Sag in the 11th, so it can see Fortune from where it is.

None of which links to what's happening over in 8, which is - nice - in that regard. The current crunch might indeed be transits - Saturn is your ascendant ruler and it's gone into Libra recently and Mars is squaring it, whilst sitting on your ascendant.

This is not the permanent state of affairs, fortunately.

[PD187540]

Matty, are you related to me somehow? Our charts are VERY similar!!! What does this mean? Are you a soul mate of sorts? My astrological twin? There has to be something to this!

[DreamingTheSeas]

This thread cheered me up! Thank you Olivia for your valuable knowledge!

[PD187540]

The more I examine Mtty's chart, the more I feel like we have some sort of connection. It's so weird.

Numerologically, he's a Life Path 6 and I'm a 9. His 6 comes from August (8) + 27 (9) + 1987 (25=7). 7 + 9 + 8 = 24 (MY BIRTHDATE) = 6.

Also, his destiny card in the playing cards system is the Queen of Hearts while mine is the King of Hearts.

Lastly, his Jupiter is bang-on conjunct my Moon in Aries, with a separation of only 10 minutes!

How do you like that??

[lionfish]

Hello 8th house readers...I am an 8th house sun and am in a period of severe 8th house transit (Venus is there now, Mars and Uranus recently left). I feel my 8th house DEEPLY all my life. Could you please take a look at my chart and let me know what you see? Some astrologers would define the Mercury in my 8th as the focal point of a yod created by Moon & Uranus at the base. It's a widish angle to the moon...but I feel something to this as the occult, themes of life/death/regeneration, Scorpionic themes of descending to ascend, sex, other people's resources (I always seem to be the one connecting person to person, resource to resource, and never getting anything out of it other than warm fuzzies ), and transformation/transmutation...my mother likes to tell a funny story about the first time she heard me read at age 3, and it was from the book on her night table at the time: "On Death & Dying." How 8th house. I feel right now the 8th house has me in its deathly grip, and there is nothing to do but pass through it (metaphorical death, of course).

[michel12]

Originally Posted by DreamingTheSeas

This thread cheered me up! Thank you Olivia for your valuable knowledge!

I agree ,thaks for all this info olivia

[PD187540]

Originally Posted by lionfish

Hello 8th house readers...I am an 8th house sun and am in a period of severe 8th house transit (Venus is there now, Mars and Uranus recently left). I feel my 8th house DEEPLY all my life. Could you please take a look at my chart and let me know what you see? Some astrologers would define the Mercury in my 8th as the focal point of a yod created by Moon & Uranus at the base. It's a widish angle to the moon...but I feel something to this as the occult, themes of life/death/regeneration, Scorpionic themes of descending to ascend, sex, other people's resources (I always seem to be the one connecting person to person, resource to resource, and never getting anything out of it other than warm fuzzies ), and transformation/transmutation...my mother likes to tell a funny story about the first time she heard me read at age 3, and it was from the book on her night table at the time: "On Death & Dying." How 8th house. I feel right now the 8th house has me in its deathly grip, and there is nothing to do but pass through it (metaphorical death, of course).

You must really be a magnetic type of person! Sexy as well...gotta love it!