Will My Case Go to Trial?

[edwchas5@yahoo.com]

I'm not sure what house to look at regarding a court case or trial, I would assume it woud be the 7th? and me would be the first house. Therefore, since 1st ruler, Moon (me) opposes 7th ruler, Saturn (court/trial) is it fair to say the court case won't go to trial, or is the 9th house considered? I'm sort of lost on this one.

Can one determine the outcome of the case by looking at this chart? or is this chart solely if the case would go to trial?

[fensi88]

Yes, you are right, trial is 1/7 house matter, and because rulers are separate your case will not go to trial.

[edwchas5@yahoo.com]

Gosh, I hope your right. Thank you for your review.

Is there an English translated version of http://www.horastro88.webs.com/ looks like an informative sight.

[fensi88]

Unfortunatelly no, but if you use Google Toolbar they have option for translate the page in your language, try it...or try here:
http://www.freemorn.com/translator/s...o_english.html

[BobZemco]

Originally Posted by edwchas5@yahoo.com

Gosh, I hope your right. Thank you for your review..

You might need a good attorney.

We always use Regiomontanus, Alcabitius or Whole Sign for Horary. All other House Systems are invalid and you can choose those from Astro-Teeth.

For Wars, Battles, Conflicts, Contests, Lawsuits, Quarrels, Disputes and the like we assign these Significators:

1st House (Challenger or Querent)

1st House Ruler
Last Planet Moon aspected

7th House (Defender or Quesited)

7th House Ruler
Planet Moon is joined to or aspects next

Your significators are Moon and Saturn

Your opponent's significators are Saturn and Sun

You asked if your case will be going to trial: It appears it will.

To determine if the parties will settle a conflict or resolve it some manner without the need for actual battle or a trial (in your instance) we look to the 1st House Ruler and 7th House Ruler.

If the 1st and 7th House Rulers are in sextile or trine with Reception; or they are in square or opposition with Reception or they are in sextile or trine without Reception then the matter will be settled beforehand.

It will be the lighter Planet, in this case the Moon, who will hold the fig leaf.

In your chart, the Moon is separating from Saturn, and even if it wasn't, there's no reception between Saturn and Moon, so there will be no settlement before hand.

That means you're going to trial.

The fact that Moon is separating from Saturn means it will be a long drawn out affair. In the US/Afghanistan conflict chart, we see Venus separating from Mars and that war is now in its 10th year, and that is typical for all conflicts of any nature.

Obviously your trial isn't going to last 10 years, but it could last 10 months or 10 weeks or longer than usual.

You might actually win or not lose so badly. Superior Planets (Mars, Jupiter and Saturn) almost always defeat Inferior Planets (like Moon, Mercury, Venus and Sun). Here Saturn is exalted and Angular, your Moon is Peregrine even though Angular. Moon in the 10th shows you'll receive some help or support, probably from the judge. Moon in trine with Sun, even though there is no Reception also tends to give strength or support.

Your Ascendant is conjunct the Part of Triumph, and Jupiter is conjunct the Part of Fortune and strong in the 9th House which would be the courts and law. That would tend to show you have the law on your side, but that is also the 3rd House of your opponent so for them the Part of Fortune I believe is actually the Part of the Sun and it would indicate they have good evidence or documentation to support their claim and notice their secondary significator Sun squares Jupiter WITH Reception from the 12th House (the jury).

Mars who rules the 10th and represents the Judge is moving into a square with Saturn, but that is somewhat dangerous because Saturn will receive an exalted Mars, from the House of Detriment to Mars.

For the cause, we always look at the Malefics and their placement by House. Mars in 6th, ruling 5th and 10th, Dispositor Saturn exalted in 4th ruling 7th and 8th, would seem to be theft, fraud, securities, taxes, tax evasion, especially real estate taxes, foreclosure etc. Mercury is Cadent and Retrograde, but I'd be hesitant to call it a Malefic because it is not in aspect without Reception to another Cadent Planet, but it is with the Head, and Mercury rules the 12th and 3rd, which might indicate traffic accident with injuries/fatalities/property damage.

[Opphiucan]

It seems like a yes it will go to trial to me just because of the Saturn (you) and (moon) them polarity with you MC/IC...Plus you are Saturn in 10 ruled by aries...

Look, I'm a novice - but there's a lot going on here in my opinion!

Bob - does that have any meaning here??? That Saturn and Moon are in line with the midheaven in horary?

[BobZemco]

Originally Posted by Opphiucan

Bob - does that have any meaning here??? That Saturn and Moon are in line with the midheaven in horary?

I've never seen anything written about it.

[dr. farr]

Again! Another chart with the Dragon's Tail in the sign (Cancer) in the 1st house!
Perhaps its a coincidence, but lately I've seen an increased incidence of this...
As is well known by now (perhaps too well known!) I consider indications in all horary charts with this placement to be unreliable, so (if this chart had been presented to me for delineation) I would have said, re-ask the same question again at a later time.

[BobZemco]

Originally Posted by dr. farr

Again! Another chart with the Dragon's Tail in the sign (Cancer) in the 1st house!
Perhaps its a coincidence, but lately I've seen an increased incidence of this...
As is well known by now (perhaps too well known!) I consider indications in all horary charts with this placement to be unreliable, so (if this chart had been presented to me for delineation) I would have said, re-ask the same question again at a later time.

Well, you've convinced me. I've been tracking them for a while and this would make 14 of 16 and still waiting for feed back on two of them (and that doesn't even come close to counting the others which had no feed-back so we don't know what happened).

So far it seems to represent the complete destruction of the matter or the exact opposite of what the Querent asks or a total nothing.

[edwchas5@yahoo.com]

Hi Bob, hmm.. I'm a bit confused on the Dragon Tail Theory, Bob, when you indicated..it seems to represent the complete destruction of the matter" did you mean a destruction of the question that's it's not readable or destruction that it would not go to trial? or nothing would come of the situation?
or the exact opposite of what the Querent asks or a total nothing ... the exact opposite to trial , would not be a trial.

[isismagdalenne]

Bob, Dr. Farr also looked at an horary of mine in which the dragon's tail conj the Asc. in cancer. I didnt keep the exact chart but I remember it was about picking up my script from the doctor's office (being significant to me, even if other's might not understand) and the indications were not promising. There was a slight hiccup in that the office was closed when I got there, but I waited an hour and they re-opened from lunch. Everything was fine and I was off to the pharmacy.

[juicey J.]

How is this going to trial? The ruler of the 1st is in seperating aspect to the ruler the 7th and neither aspects or disposits into the 9th house of the courts.

[BobZemco]

Originally Posted by juicey J.

How is this going to trial? The ruler of the 1st is in seperating aspect to the ruler the 7th and neither aspects or disposits into the 9th house of the courts.

It is going to trial exactly as I predicted precisely because the Significators are separating.

If the indicators had been applying, that, along with other indicators, might have indicated a settlement or resolution prior to trial, and it would be the lighter Planet that throws in the towel.

The fact that neither Significator aspects or deposits the 9th House of Courts has absolutely no bearing on the issue whatsoever. I would never even take that into consideration for any reason.

In fact, the only reason I would even look at the 9th House is to see what evidence the opponent had and how strong it was and whether or not it was damaging to the Querent.

My main focus would be on the 10th House representing the judge, and also the 4th House which is the 7th House of the judge and would represent the "end of the matter" but not because it is the 4th House, rather because it is the House opposite the judge.

Originally Posted by edwchas5@yahoo.com

Hi Bob, hmm.. I'm a bit confused on the Dragon Tail Theory, Bob, when you indicated..it seems to represent the complete destruction of the matter" did you mean a destruction of the question that's it's not readable or destruction that it would not go to trial? or nothing would come of the situation? or the exact opposite of what the Querent asks or a total nothing ... the exact opposite to trial , would not be a trial.

I've only recently come across it and don't pretend to understand it. I only know that it portends a disaster of some sort. It's similar in some respects to a Via Combusta Ascendant.

[juicey J.]

bob, I guess a seperating oppostion does make sense for going to trial because an applying one means one party would meet the other at least somewhat half way. Could an applying oppostion also mean it could go to trial but in the end they would work it out as opposed to a seperating one where the two parties force away from the other having nothing to do with the other afterwards? The ic/mc (not 4th or 10th unless your using placidus or some other house system which, always and these as the cusps of the 4th and 10th) always plays a part in the end of the matter along with the moon (usually the moon more so) the fact the ic is going to conjunct saturn and the fact the moon makes no major aspect to a benefic likely means if it goes to trial they are going to lose or at least have to compromise much. So let see if I got this straight depending on the nature of the question and the aspect a seperating aspect might cause said thing to occur, say someone asks our they going to sue me and the aspect (likely a square or oppostion) between the ruler and the ruler of the 7th are seperating the answer might well be yes, and in fact they already filed and your going to get a supena quite soon if you haven't already.

[Aquarius358]

Originally Posted by edwchas5@yahoo.com

I'm not sure what house to look at regarding a court case or trial, I would assume it woud be the 7th? and me would be the first house. Therefore, since 1st ruler, Moon (me) opposes 7th ruler, Saturn (court/trial) is it fair to say the court case won't go to trial, or is the 9th house considered? I'm sort of lost on this one.

Can one determine the outcome of the case by looking at this chart? or is this chart solely if the case would go to trial?

Hi - I was interested in your question: Yes, you can judge the outcome because anything related to this specific legal matter which involves the querent and their adversary in law is contained within the chart.

I would agree that you are thinking about the matter going to trial because Moon 1 ruler is in the 10th of Courts and Judgments but Saturn, 7 ruler, your legal opponent, is "at home" in the 4th. This could mean your opponent does not want the case to go to trial even though he/she’s in a very strong position to win and no reception between Moon and Saturn means, as has already been noted, there’s not much chance of negotiation.

But, having said that, I did notice that 2 ruler Sun - your lawyer, is translating the light of Saturn (your opponent) to Jupiter (law) - meaning that, with difficulty, your lawyer would be able to negotiate an outcome without a court case by referring to whatever law is on your side. It’s a broad shot and because of the square involved would not be easy.

The chart is very clear in the opponent stakes : Saturn is very strong in dignities whereas Moon is not - so it would seem that Saturn (your opponent) will win the case. This could be because of a number of things - a better or more expensive lawyer perhaps; more money; more ‘rights’ under the relevant law, etc.

What will the judge think? Mars is the judge (10 ruler) & applies by square to Saturn which would seem to suggest that the verdict will be in favour of your opponent albeit with some difficulty. It’s also interesting that the judge (Mars) receives you by Sign - strong reception - he likes you - whilst Mars does not receive your opponent Saturn at all. One interpretation of this could be that he thinks you should have a verdict in your favour but that the law does not permit it. It’s hard to say exactly.

Another thing, the Judge/Mars’ antiscion is in the same degree as your lawyer. With just those two or three things, I’d be talking to my lawyer again if you’d prefer to try to sort things out before going to court. You’re in with a slim chance I’d say!

You mentioned the 9th House and you’re right, this rules legal matters generally --and, since Jupiter rules law generally, I would take its position in the 9th as significant in this chart. Jupiter conjunct Uranus could mean a sudden change of mind - or a sudden change.____________

[juicey J.]

No, the 9th house is the house of courts in general, the 10th like bob said is the judge (well mc anyway), the 7th is the person suing you.

[BobZemco]

Originally Posted by Aquarius358

I’d be talking to my lawyer again if you’d prefer to try to sort things out before going to court. You’re in with a slim chance I’d say!

It went to trial. He has another thread on that regarding the chances for dismissal.

[Aquarius358]

Originally Posted by juicey J.

No, the 9th house is the house of courts in general, the 10th like bob said is the judge (well mc anyway), the 7th is the person suing you.

Sorry Juicey J- we'll have to agree to disagree on this if that's how you've read me! My references & training in horary technique all tell me the 9th House is NOT the house of "Courts in general" as you say.

The 9th is the house of legal knowledge and the law generally and lawyers generally. Your specific lawyer is 2 ruler, your "helper", and only the 10th represents the judge, the court, where the final decision is made. 4th ruler can be used to judge the outcome. ____________

[edwchas5@yahoo.com]

The Judge made a decision in my DUI case yesterday. I just want to say this case has been going on for almost a whole year since 5/28/2010. The prosecution and my attorney's were changed twice throughout the hearing phases. I went through several hearings for arguements. My second attorney felt my 4th amendemnt right was violated when the Highway Patrol could not produce adequate information on their sobriety checkpoint procedures & were not consistant to there procdure packet that was submitted to the court. I took 3 sobriety tests and two were not recorded on video and the one that was, was not complete. The judge supressed this evidence yesterday but the prosection would appeal the dismissal if I dont take their offer of a careless driving judgement. My attorney feels we could get the dismissal and win the appeal, but it's upto me if I want to pay $2500 to continue that process. I'm leaning more toward taking the 3 point for careless driving and pay a fine. I want to say, you guys are very gifted in your astrological analysis in horary.... you guys are amazing!

[edwchas5@yahoo.com]

The judge did not feel comfortable with the Highway Patrol testimony saying they were taking in in every 3rd car during there checkpoint procedure and it was not consistent to their standard procedure policy they submitted to the court.

[fensi88]

BobZemco was right, congratulations!!

[edwchas5@yahoo.com]

I went through the thread and I've commented on each member's conclusion.

fensi 88: was right it did not go to trial.

Bob: Not a trial, but the case itselfwas a long battle lasting over 9 months, Bob indicated about 10, and this was through numerous hearings scheduled by the Judge based on arguements by the prosecution and the defense.

Bob: I might actually win or lose not so badly. The prosecution offerred a careless driving, from a DUI, but said they would appeal the Judges decision if we ( the defense) goes for a complete dismissal, then there would be a risk of the case then going to trial.

Bob: My attorney had good evidence to support the case and the prosecution was unprepared do to the lack of or improper information provided by the highway patrol.

Bob: He indicated some kind of theft or fraud, ... True, regarding to the evidence submitted by the prosecution, the sobriety check manual had alot of errors and inconsistencies and the information seemed to have alot of cutting and pasting to it, plus the judge did not trust the highway patrol's testimony and the checkpoint was at a different location then was presented by the highway patrol.

Juicy J: made a good point about the seperating opposition, the case did not go to trial. It still potentially could if we decide to go for a complete dismissal, but my attorney feels we would have an excellent case but she said jury's are unpredictable and never know what they're going to do.

Aquarius 358: said the judge can overcome the and the judge did, The judge supressed the main evidence that was to be used agains me.

Aquarius 358: and it's true, my lawyer did negotiate an outcome without a trial and it was not easy for her, she found a few things in some prior cases to convince the judge.

[fensi88]

Oh, thanks for additional explanation, now I understand.

[Aquarius358]

Originally Posted by edwchas5@yahoo.com

I went through the thread and I've commented on each member's conclusion. ... ... it did not go to trial.

Thanks, Edwchas5, for your input and also for the detailed conclusions. This is always appreciated.
Cheers_____________

[edwchas5@yahoo.com]

There was a quandry whether the state attorney was going to proceed and appeal the judges decision to supress evidence, my attorney felt I had a good case and the state was going to offer a careless driving but yesterday 3/24/2011 @ 4:44 pm EST, the state called my attorney and said " Nolle Prosequi "we shall no longer prosecute". My attorney used the a 4th amendent right issue, that won my case.
on 3/.25/2011 the ruling was made in my favor and the case was thrown out .. "it died" as what Bob said earlier in his analysis.

Notice the numerology on this:

1) a 4th amendment issue
2) call was on 3/24/2011 = 4
3) my attorney called me at 4:44 pm

Notice the numerology on this:

1) 3/25/2011 = 5 the ruling was offical in court
2) my bond for $500 to be reissued
3) the bond surety number was 5050235