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Old 12-13-2010, 07:05 AM
juicey J. juicey J. is offline
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Exhaltations, falls and domiciles in horary

SUN EXALTED IN ARIES

SUN FALL IN LIBRA

MOON EXALTED IN TAURUS

MOON FALL IN SCORPIO

MERCURY EXALTED IN VIRGO

MERCURY FALL IN PISCES

VENUS EXALTED IN PISCES

VENUS FALL IN VIRGO

MARS EXALTED IN CAPRICORN

MARS FALL IN CANCER

JUPITER EXALTED IN CANCER

JUPITER FALL IN CAPRICORN

SATURN EXALTED IN LIBRA

SATURN FALL IN ARIES

SUN DOMICLE IN LEO

SUN DETERMENT IN AQUARIUS

MOON DOMICLE IN CANCER

MOON
DETERMENT IN CAPRICORN

MERCURY DOMICLE IN GEMINI/VIRGO

MERCURY DETEMENT IN SAGITTARIUS (no not in all cases is the opposite sign of the sign of domicle the determint sign)

VENUS DOMICLE IN TAURUS/LIBRA

VENUS DETERMENT IN SCORPO/ARIES

MARS DOMICLE IN ARIES/SCORPIO

MARS DETERMENT IN LIBRA/Taurus

JUPITER DOMICLE IN SAGITTARIUS/PISCES

Jupiter DETERMENT IN GEMINI/VIRGO

SATURN DOMICLE IN CAPRICORN/AQUARIUS

SATURN DETERMENT IN CANCER/LEO

I DON'T NEED A LESSON ON THE MAIN ESSENTIAL DIGNITIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Last edited by juicey J.; 12-13-2010 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 12-13-2010, 07:12 AM
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Re: are these 2 gonna start dating before april?

Detriment is always opposition to the domicile. Mercury is in detriment in Sagittarius. Fall is always opposition to the exaltation.


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Old 12-13-2010, 07:30 AM
juicey J. juicey J. is offline
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Re: are these 2 gonna start dating before april?

No, because then mercury would be determent in Pisces because of Virgo its domicle sign but yes because its also the exaltation of Mercury Pisces is the fall sign. Terms and faces I've heard of but honestly never knew what they exactly were but I'm always interested in learing new things.

opps I forgot to meantion jupiter is determint in Gemini/virgo.

The triplicity rulers I only learned like a few months ago. Like the sun is day ruler of all fire signs and Jupiter the night ruler. venus is day ruler of all earth signs and the moon the night ruler. saturn is the day ruler of all air sign and mercury the night ruler. Mars is triplicity ruler of water no mater the time of day.
This is day and night in terms of the sun above and below the horizon not in terms of am or pm.

IF YOU REALLY WANT TO GET TECHNICAL. Not only do you have all these and the terms and faces but you also have the profections (not to be confused with perfections) and the time lords.

Last edited by juicey J.; 12-13-2010 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 12-13-2010, 07:45 AM
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Re: are these 2 gonna start dating before april?

Well, as you see, Pisces is both detriment and fall for Mercury since it's a special planet that has domicile and exaltation in one sign.
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Old 12-13-2010, 07:55 AM
juicey J. juicey J. is offline
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Re: are these 2 gonna start dating before april?

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Well, as you see, Pisces is both detriment and fall for Mercury since it's a special planet that has domicile and exaltation in one sign.
No, that would then make mercury the determent time lord of Pisces when using profections and this isn't the case.

Last edited by juicey J.; 12-13-2010 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:08 AM
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Re: are these 2 gonna start dating before april?

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No, that would then make mercury the determent time lord of Pisces when using profections and this isn't the case.
What are you talking about? It's clearly in the chart above, which is one of a few used for horary.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:12 AM
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Re: are these 2 gonna start dating before april?

opps Then mercury is determint time lord of Pisces in profections (good to know).
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:17 AM
juicey J. juicey J. is offline
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Re: are these 2 gonna start dating before april?

what pray tell is a mixed mutual reception? I've heard of mutual reception such as with my venus in cappy square to saturn in libra. I must say I'm learning so much here. I would also like to learn what terms and faces are and what they are used for.

Last edited by juicey J.; 12-13-2010 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:55 PM
juicey J. juicey J. is offline
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Re: Exhaltations, falls and domiciles in horary

For example with faces is only said degree the face or is it a 10 degree range thing? Also, let me see if I got this straight saturn at 13 degrees virgo would be in the term of venus helping to gentle its affect? I'm confused on how this exactly works.

I honesly never really used the hellenistic table of essential dignities (expect for the commonly known domicle, determent, exaltation, fall, and recently triplicity) I mostly used (and still do) the decantes and dwads finding them to give specific and accurate info in natal chart readings.

Last edited by juicey J.; 12-13-2010 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 12-14-2010, 03:46 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Exhaltations, falls and domiciles in horary

One can make this as simple or as complex as one wishes. For example, not only are there the Ptolemaic terms, there are also the Egyptian terms. Not only faces (10 degree areas of each sign allocated to the planets in the Chaldean Planetary Order) but also decans (in horary-see Albumasar's mention of decans-presumably the elemental decans-in his "Abbreviation") And, even older, in place of the terms/bounds, there are the degree-rulers called "monomoiria". Then-although they are technically accidental dignities and debilities-what about the pitted and elevated degrees? Extensively applied in delineations-especially horary ones-through the early Renaissance times. What about bright, dark and mixed degrees? Explained by Albumasar in the 800's, reported as extensively used (again more as accidental than as essential dignities/debilities) particularly in horary practice by Al-Biruni, and still mentioned as late as Lilly.
What do you use? In my outlook it depends upon ones studies and experiences. I myself (in essential dignities) totally reject the terms in favor of the older monomoiria; occasionally I use Face, but over the past few years generally evaluate with the Manilius decans; what about duodenaries (sign 1/12ths), mentioned by Albumasar, Al-Kindi, Al-Biruni, Ibn Ezra? Applied in jyotish prasna (Vedic horary) since the beginning (and up to the present time), they were also used historically in horary (and other branches of astrology) in Western astrology as well (prior to Bonatti and later authorities) In natal and astro-medical delineation I myself take these (the "dwads") extensively into account.

So the criteria one decides to apply, regarding determination of dignity and debility, is variable: for beginners it is best to follow the basic essential-dignity rules and commonly used criteria; however, once the basics have been mastered, further study-and insight based upon one's actual experiences rather than theories-will lead every sincere seeker to develop their own criteria regarding the determination of dignity and debility.

Last edited by dr. farr; 12-14-2010 at 03:51 AM.
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Old 12-14-2010, 04:08 AM
Aquarius358 Aquarius358 is offline
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Re: are these 2 gonna start dating before april?

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Originally Posted by juicey J. View Post
what pray tell is a mixed mutual reception? I've heard of mutual reception such as with my venus in cappy square to saturn in libra. I must say I'm learning so much here. I would also like to learn what terms and faces are and what they are used for.
Hi - There is no such thing as "mixed" mutual reception! Whoever has said this has mixed up two different kinds of reception.

However, there is "mixed reception" AND there is "mutual reception".
Two separate things .

MIXED RECEPTION : This is when, say, Venus at 7deg Aries and Mars is in, say, Scorpio. Mars receives Venus by Term - just while Venus is in those few degrees from 6-12deg59' of Aries.

We can say in this situation that Venus exchanges "mixed reception" with Mars because Mars is Sign ruler of Scorpio - but is NOT in mutual reception with Venus because they do not receive each other with the same TYPE of reception. Hence, "mixed" reception.

All up, there's reception by Sign Ruler (domicile); by Exaltation, by Triplicity, by Term and by Face. There is NO reception by Fall or Detriment.

MUTUAL RECEPTION: is when two planets receive each other with the SAME TYPE of reception - as, say, Mars in Cancer and Moon in Aries - where there is mutual reception by Sign Ruler. They rule each other's Sign. This is the strongest kind of reception.

In Horary, it's important to remember, too, that for Reception to "perfect the matter", there must be an aspect between the two planets.

The QUALITY of the reception goes like this - strongest to least strong :
Sign Ruler (Domicile); Exaltation; Triplicity; Terms; Faces.

I'd recommend copying the Table provided by RA earlier in this post - and keeping a printed copy next to you when reading a chart.

Hope that's a bit of help ...

Cheers______________PS Not shouting with caps - just an emphasis!
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Old 12-14-2010, 04:21 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: are these 2 gonna start dating before april?

Without intending to be argumentative, regarding Mutual Reception, there is (or was anciently) a form of it called "Genorosity", described in the 800's by Albumasar ("Abbreviations") and repeated as late as the 12th century (Ibn Ezra, "Beginning of Wisdom") in which no aspect is necessary between the involved planets in order to be in that state. Further, in addition to by sign ruler, this state can also exist (albeit of a weaker influence) by decan (Albumasar mentions DECANS in horary), by Face, by triplicity and by term.
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Old 12-14-2010, 06:16 AM
juicey J. juicey J. is offline
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Re: Exhaltations, falls and domiciles in horary

Also, Dr. Farr if one throws fixed stars in the whole business of degrees then things can get really messy and one has to really weigh things.
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Old 12-14-2010, 07:08 AM
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Re: Exhaltations, falls and domiciles in horary

Thanks Aquarius 358, I knew most of that info already thanks to Rob Hand. Also, it should be noted a reception only happens when there is a major aspect from the sign and the planet that rules it by sign (not counting dissociate or inconjunctions).

I will let the man many in astrology today call THE MAN explain it better then I could


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Old 12-14-2010, 07:13 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Exhaltations, falls and domiciles in horary

About adding in the stars: Right-although I do this in all natal, most astro-therapeutic and sometimes in horary!
Then again, in a couple of alternative horary (more like divinatory) methods I use, the more complex considerations don't come in at all: the Simple Lunar Divination method, the "Fixed Star Fortune", the simple True/False divination (which only uses the Lot of Truth and the Sun)-these methods make no application of dignity/debility, reception, etc. However, these methods do not give the detail which either traditional standard horary-or the somewhat similar Primary Ankara horary which I use-are capable of.
The simple methods I mention show "yes/no" or "favorable/unfavorable" indications relative to the question (in a "freeze-frame" context) without showing the why and the wherefore. Yet, for me at least, these simple (perhaps simplistic) techniques have their place, and in my experience have proven reliable and accurate (to my satisfaction)
So as not to confuse beginners or students, whenever I use these techniques on AW I always begin with a disclaimer to the effect that they are not part of standard horary practice.

Last edited by dr. farr; 12-14-2010 at 07:15 AM.
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Old 12-14-2010, 05:06 PM
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Re: are these 2 gonna start dating before april?

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what pray tell is a mixed mutual reception? I've heard of mutual reception such as with my venus in cappy square to saturn in libra. I must say I'm learning so much here. I would also like to learn what terms and faces are and what they are used for.
Mixed reception means reception that isn't equal, like Venus in Libra and Saturn in Taurus. Venus is in Saturn's exaltation (higher) while Saturn is only Venus's rulership = mixed.

Oops, didn't see a couple people already answered. Oh well.
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Old 12-14-2010, 07:54 PM
juicey J. juicey J. is offline
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Re: Exhaltations, falls and domiciles in horary

I had plain forgotten Hand explains what mixed reception was in said vid, oh well, now I definetly know.
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Old 12-14-2010, 09:51 PM
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Re: Exhaltations, falls and domiciles in horary

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For example with faces is only said degree the face or is it a 10 degree range thing? Also, let me see if I got this straight saturn at 13 degrees virgo would be in the term of venus helping to gentle its affect? I'm confused on how this exactly works.

I honesly never really used the hellenistic table of essential dignities (expect for the commonly known domicle, determent, exaltation, fall, and recently triplicity) I mostly used (and still do) the decantes and dwads finding them to give specific and accurate info in natal chart readings.

hey Juice

The degree next to a planet in term or face means that planet is in term UP to that degree.

so for example, aries is in term of jupiter from 1-6 degrees, (0.01-6.00) venus from 7-14, (6.01-14.00) etc.

i also think its important to note that usually terms and face's are very weak and do not indicate much significance in and of themselves. they are strengthened if combined with another form of dignity.


What im still not sure about is terms/ faces in the sign of a planets fall/detriment

for example venus at 12* aries. Detriment still has a negative implication and the fact that its in term would barely lessen the blow. I guess in this case, if venus is involved in some sort of reception, it would be an easier transaction than if there were no term. for example aries venus opposing saturn in libra. venus is being received and in term, so there is not as negative a problem as exhalted saturn opposing venus from out of term aries. maybe venus in aries will have inclinations to mature rather than become restricted. however the nature of this aspect (saturn opp. venus) is still a negative one, and would conflict venus in aries, especially in synastry/composite.
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Old 12-14-2010, 10:51 PM
Aquarius358 Aquarius358 is offline
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Re: are these 2 gonna start dating before april?

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Mixed mutual reception means reception that isn't equal, like Venus in Libra and Saturn in Taurus. Venus is in Saturn's exaltation (higher) while Saturn is only Venus's rulership = mixed.

Oops, didn't see a couple people already answered. Oh well.

Sorry, RA - but as I said above, strictly speaking there's no such thing as "mixed mutual reception". It's either mixed OR mutual. Using the phrase "mixed mutual reception" really should be avoided so as confusion about this fades into the sunset ... __________
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Old 12-14-2010, 11:40 PM
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Re: are these 2 gonna start dating before april?

Aquarius I know that and agree. It's called typing quickly, "mixed mutual reception" is redundant--or more accurately, an oxymoron.
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Old 12-24-2010, 05:28 PM
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Re: Exhaltations, falls and domiciles in horary

In essential dignities if a planet has both exalted and triplicity lordships (at least according to rob hand) it trumps domicle. So for example in the chart of Adolf Hilter (who was a libra rising) his ruler isn't venus but rather his Saturn in leo which, has both exalted and triplicity lordship over his rising.
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Old 12-25-2010, 05:34 AM
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Re: are these 2 gonna start dating before april?

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The triplicity rulers I only learned like a few months ago. Like the sun is day ruler of all fire signs and Jupiter the night ruler. venus is day ruler of all earth signs and the moon the night ruler. saturn is the day ruler of all air sign and mercury the night ruler. Mars is triplicity ruler of water no mater the time of day.
Those would be Ptolemy's Ptriplicities which I don't use. The Dorothean System has three Triplicity Rulers, which makes more sense, and in that scheme, Venus and Moon rule water, Mars participates, and Venus and Mars rule Earth, and Moon participates.

Much of Natal and Horary makes use of three Triplicity Rulers and the Fidaria makes use of Terms, and you can't use Ptolemy's Pterms or Ptriplicities with those systems.

In a Natal Chart, the three Triplicity Rulers of the Ascendant show the general tenor for each 1/3 of the native's life. If the 1st Triplicity Ruler is bad condition and impeded, then the first 1/3 of the native's life will be the same: in bad condition with lots of impediments.

The Directed Ascendant in the Terms modifies that. So maybe the first 1/3 of the Native's life is bad, but the Directed Ascendant to the Term of Mars with Mars in good condition and not Malefic would show the Native perseveres in spite of the bad things that happen, or maybe to the Term of Jupiter who is well placed shows the Native's suffering is tolerable and perhaps in the end, not completely harmful.

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IF YOU REALLY WANT TO GET TECHNICAL. Not only do you have all these and the terms and faces but you also have the profections (not to be confused with perfections) and the time lords.
Those are used with Natal. I know of no one who uses them with Horary.
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Old 12-25-2010, 05:53 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Exhaltations, falls and domiciles in horary

It is a great book! Remember though that it is interpolated by its 5th century Pahlavi translator and its later 8th (or 9th) century translator. But everything in it is of value and illustrates Greco/Roman, Persian and early Islamic outlooks and methodologies.
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Old 12-26-2010, 05:08 AM
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Re: are these 2 gonna start dating before april?

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Those would be Ptolemy's Ptriplicities which I don't use. The Dorothean System has three Triplicity Rulers, which makes more sense, and in that scheme, Venus and Moon rule water, Mars participates, and Venus and Mars rule Earth, and Moon participates.

Much of Natal and Horary makes use of three Triplicity Rulers and the Fidaria makes use of Terms, and you can't use Ptolemy's Pterms or Ptriplicities with those systems.

In a Natal Chart, the three Triplicity Rulers of the Ascendant show the general tenor for each 1/3 of the native's life. If the 1st Triplicity Ruler is bad condition and impeded, then the first 1/3 of the native's life will be the same: in bad condition with lots of impediments.

The Directed Ascendant in the Terms modifies that. So maybe the first 1/3 of the Native's life is bad, but the Directed Ascendant to the Term of Mars with Mars in good condition and not Malefic would show the Native perseveres in spite of the bad things that happen, or maybe to the Term of Jupiter who is well placed shows the Native's suffering is tolerable and perhaps in the end, not completely harmful.



Those are used with Natal. I know of no one who uses them with Horary.

No, in the dorthean system mars isn't the participating ruler of water the moon is. Venus is water's day ruler and mars the night ruler. Also, in the dorthean system the moon isn't the participating ruler of earth, mars is. Venus is day ruler of earth and the moon is night ruler. The only differences between dorthean and ptolemy is dorithean uses three rulers and uses a different day ruler for water. Because of such some astrologers including rob hand say they both more or less work equally well.

Last edited by juicey J.; 12-26-2010 at 05:15 AM.
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Old 12-26-2010, 05:28 AM
juicey J. juicey J. is offline
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Re: Exhaltations, falls and domiciles in horary

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It is a great book! Remember though that it is interpolated by its 5th century Pahlavi translator and its later 8th (or 9th) century translator. But everything in it is of value and illustrates Greco/Roman, Persian and early Islamic outlooks and methodologies.
Its a book that's top on my list of astrology books to read before I die. I understand dorotheus was an actual astrologer were as ptolemy was merley a scholar and didn't practice the art.
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