Will he propose around christmas

[natasa]

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/293...n400887740.png

Dear all, I didn`t participate for a long time, just reading your posts, having my own subjects to deal with...
I hope you are all fine

I am venus in his house, in his terms (in terms of Mars) but also in face of Mars (heaving second thoughts - indeed about his explosive character).
He is Mars in my terms (in terms of Venus) but in face of Mars (himself), exalted in Capricorn (hoping that this position brings him wisdom and ``cool`` head with the wise, cold and slow Capricorn puting him on ``earth``...)
The first next aspect of the moon is trine to Vertex and than trine to Saturn (Moon and Saturn rule the 4th and the 8th - the end of the matter)
Also, he is much older than me (17 years I thing) so, could we give him Saturn as a co - ruler?
The next aspect is sextile to Sun and than conjunction with Neptune.
He is also in his 3rd of communication, ready to perform sextile to Venus (me) and to conjuct Mercury (communication and also ruler of my 3rd of communication).

Best regards

[BobZemco]

We finally get a real horary question and the image has expired. That figures.

Originally Posted by natasa

I am venus in his house, in his terms (in terms of Mars) but also in face of Mars (heaving second thoughts - indeed about his explosive character).
He is Mars in my terms (in terms of Venus) but in face of Mars (himself), exalted in Capricorn (hoping that this position brings him wisdom and ``cool`` head with the wise, cold and slow Capricorn puting him on ``earth``...)

That's modern astrology, which is of no value here.

Originally Posted by natasa

The first next aspect of the moon is trine to Vertex and than trine to Saturn (Moon and Saturn rule the 4th and the 8th - the end of the matter)

The Vertex means nothing in Horary. 4th/8th are not the end of the matter for this chart.

Originally Posted by natasa

Also, he is much older than me (17 years I thing) so, could we give him Saturn as a co - ruler?

No, not for that reason, but because the Moon's next applying aspect is to Saturn we can give Saturn to him as co-signficator.

Originally Posted by natasa

The next aspect is sextile to Sun and than conjunction with Neptune.

We don't use Neptune in Horary.

Originally Posted by natasa

He is also in his 3rd of communication, ready to perform sextile to Venus (me) and to conjuct Mercury (communication and also ruler of my 3rd of communication).

Really need to see the chart for that. As you described it Mars receives Venus so the sextile is with Reception and that is good and suggests that the matter will be perfected, but the problem is Mercury.

Mercury can interfere and cut-off or block the light between Venus and Mars and destroy the sextile, which would either prevent the marriage or prevent him from proposing marriage.

It all depends on when Mercury perfects its aspect and when Venus perfects her aspect.

(This is an excellent example of the reason why people must have an ephemeris for Horary Astrology -- without an ephemeris you could make the wrong judgment).

[RayAustin]

Before you said the sextile adamantly doesn't exist Bob in another thread.

[RayAustin]

Hi Natasa, awaiting your chart.

The first next aspect of the moon is trine to Vertex and than trine to Saturn (Moon and Saturn rule the 4th and the 8th - the end of the matter)
Also, he is much older than me (17 years I thing) so, could we give him Saturn as a co - ruler?

In a sense you could use Saturn as a general significator for an older man; just as Venus or Jupiter could be used as a general significator for money in a money horary. It'd be far more accurate using the house ruler (7th, in this case). As someone else mentioned the vertex is not necessary. When you upload the chart, I want to look at Saturn.

The next aspect is sextile to Sun and than conjunction with Neptune.
He is also in his 3rd of communication, ready to perform sextile to Venus (me) and to conjuct Mercury (communication and also ruler of my 3rd of communication).

The only thing is, this sextile will not perfect. Venus returns to her normal speed and Mars cannot catch up.

We don't use Neptune in Horary.

Another misconception.. 173 years ago, astrologer Robert Cross Smith (aka Raphael), in his book Manual of Astrology, in the horary section demonstrates an example (pg 212) delineation where he uses Uranus (aka Herschel), as well as the known minor aspects of that time. If he was using this outer planet (173 years ago!), there's no reason to believe he wouldn't use Neptune or Pluto as well if they were known at the time. He mentions no special considerations for using minor aspects or the outer planet Uranus.

R.a.

[natasa]

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/2...n400887740.png

I had a problem with internet connection yestrday to the ImageShack.
Hope it works this time

Thank you all

[natasa]

Originally Posted by RayAustin

Hi Natasa, awaiting your chart.



Venus returns to her normal speed and Mars cannot catch up.



R.a.

That is why I was looking at the end of the matter - how it ends finaly. Saturn is in his 12th - don`t know what it means. He is in his 3rd of communication (but also in a short trip at the moment). And what about Jupiter - ruler of his 3rd of communication in my 12th?)

[natasa]

RayAustin,
you are getting better and better and your predictions always come true... you predicted some matters in the past...


Thank you again...

[julia]

Originally Posted by natasa

RayAustin,
you are getting better and better and your predictions always come true... you predicted some matters in the past...

Counting on you, having second thoughts what to do... Not much a type of compromise in my real life...
He said that he will spent hollidays with his mother, thinking how to make it so that we can all be together and happy (somehow)... But, if he can not leave his mother for holidays - where will I be? All alone? And if he is not ready to meet me to his mother - it automaticly means loneliness for me = leaving to spend hollidays with My mother (in another country and staying for realtively long time = relationship is gone...). Because, if he is not there for Christmas - mother will ask: Where are you going? So, he HAS to tell her that he is in a relationship (serious enough to leave HIS family and to start creating a NEW family...)
Another solution is to ``compromise`` and to leave him to do what he wants and feels that is right - to spend hollidays with his mother, brother and sister, me - leaving the country and than to continue the relationship after. But, if we are not togheter for hollidays, for me, it is not a serious relationship (at least not at this age). And he HAS to make that step - sometime...

His is Mars in a chart (realy explosive character in the real life) - but exalted in Capricorn - hoping that this position will make him make a wise and ``cool head`` decision.
I know that I am (Venus) in his terms but in face also (having second thoughts about ``explosive character`` and him ready - not ready to commit and having ``mother`` issues in his age... but from the other, him being so emotional and kind hearted )

Of course, the question was ``Will he propose`` ... what will happen after is another question...
What is confusing (for me) is the ``end of the matter`` (Moon and Saturn - a nice trine). Saturn is exalted in Libra, in terms of Jupiter - Jupiter rules his 3rd of communication (words, proposal)... Jupiter in my 12th, Saturn in his 12th... Is something ``hidden`` in here or will he propose without informing his mother and family?
Having a ``YES OR NO`` horary, we always look at the end of the matter if I am right..., and Moon is in my 11th of hopes and in his 5th of intentions as Radu wrote somewhere... But, from the other hand, Saturn rules his 4th of his family and Moon my 4th of my family...
- Venus and Mars (our significators) - they are separating and will meet in another sign as one member reminded me...
Don`t know how to interpret this...
Thank you again...

Hello Natassa, I am from the same country like you : Greece. First of all, I wish you to spend your best Chirstmas Holidays and all your dreams come true. I am not very good at horary so I am not be able to help at your horary question. But I would like to say something, If you meet someone's mother, this won't mean that your relationship will become serious. If you have good relationships with your parents and your parents take care of you, they would like to meet their children's partners. I think that greek parents, at least most of them are open-minded and they are not traditional. Anyway, I wish you good luck and I hope that you will update us with good news....

[natasa]

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[julia]

Originally Posted by natasa

Dear Julia,
at the age of 85 - greek parents ARE traditional. And her son is at age of ... so, he is traditional too...
Beside, he told me that if I meet his mother, it means that we will get married... What to say
Wish you all the best for hollidays, hope you are fine in your personal life and that yours and your partners parents are more ``modern`` than in our case...
Best

thank you!!!

[natasa]

..................................

[BobZemco]

Your Significators are Venus, Moon and Mercury (the Planet the Moon last aspected) and his are Mars, Sun and Saturn (the Planet the Moon aspects next).

For any relationship question, ideally you want the Significators for the Quesited (the 7th House Significators) in applying trines and sextiles (with Reception) to the Querent's Significators (the 1st House Significators). Why? Because the Querent wants something and applying aspects by the Quesited show they want the same thing as the Querent, whatever that might be.

If that isn't the case, it is not a disaster, but it implies the Querent and Quesited have different goals which could cause problems later on in the relationship/marriage.

None of his Significators make applying aspects to yours, but your Moon is in an applying trine to Saturn and Saturn receives Moon by Rulership (which is good). Moon is in your 10th House which is your Dignity, Honor, Status and Saturn is in his 12th House, and even though Cadent, Saturn is exalted here and not impeded by bad aspects from other Planets so he's probably secretly planning something. Saturn's Dispositor Venus is in the House of Marriage, although Venus is in Detriment there.

You asked if he will propose marriage, your Moon trines his Saturn, you have perfect Reception by Rulership (Moon in the House of Saturn -- Exaltation, Triplicity & Term and Triplicity & Face are the other two forms of perfect reception), your Moon is in your House of Honor, Dignity, Status, Advancement etc and his Saturn is in his House of Secret Plans, so it looks like he will propose.

Your Venus is in his 7th House which indicates you love him, but Venus being in Detriment (and your Moon is out of Sect), you might want to ask why. I notice the 5th House is Leo (a Barren Sign), the 11th House is Aquarius is so-so, Taurus is Fruitful, but all of his Significators are Barren Planets if children are an issue, that is something you should discuss before you marry so there aren't any misunderstandings. His Sun is in Hayz and its own Triplicity. He looks like he has a good reputation or standing in the community, maybe some wealth, but has some conflicts with Jupiter things. Religion and political ideology is something you might want to discuss before marriage too, otherwise I don't see any problems here.

[natasa]

.......................................

[BobZemco]

Originally Posted by natasa

I see you use different system, because, Moon is in 10th and in my chart from AstroClick it is in 11th of hopes and in his turned 5th of intentions (as Radu wrote somewhere).

Astrology was originally Whole Sign Houses, in part because they didn't have "0" or the higher order math to derive House Cusps. Yes, "0" existed but only as a place holder (the Sumerian sexigesimal system is 10 and 60 and from that we get 360° and 12 hour days, 12 hour nights, 60' in an hour or degree, 60" in a minute of time or arc etc).

This forum is traditional horary based largely on Lily who used Regiomontanus. I'm not really a fan of Lily, but you have to start somewhere (I started with Lily), people have ready access to Lily on the internet (although apparently only in English language) and the copyright on his works expired centuries ago so you can freely copy and quote Lily without violating any copyright laws.

For that reason I usually post charts in Regiomontanus plus people seem to have access to that House System on software or the internet, and they don't always seem to have access to Alcabitius which is what I've been using the past 4-5 years for nearly all charts. I use Whole Sign now that I'm using Arabic Parts because they were developed using Whole Sign or Alcabitius and they do not work with any other House Systems, and that's especially true for the Part of Substance (similar to the Part of Fortune), Part of Death and Part of Enemies which are calculated based on the House Cusps, so House System is important to get the correct position of the Part or Lot.

Bonatti, Zael (ibn Sahl), Masha'allah, Abu'mashar and al-Qabasi seem to have switched back and forth between Whole Sign and Alcabitius and since I follow them, that's what I use.

Originally Posted by natasa

He is exactly as you described him, having ``conflicts with Jupiter issues``... being very religious (member of church activities) as well as ``life long`` learner (many Diplomas - Jupiter, expansion), good in his dayly job but mostly knowned for his ``comflicts`` in all those fields being explosive with people all the time (Mars). That is why I am in detriment, being a sign of ``dual`` as Venus rules ``relationships`` in a sign of Aries that recognise the individual and is focused on himself. Because, when he is in a ``conflict`` (read it as a world disaster) nobody and nothing else exists - only his fight for his ideals and ideas.

The true Art of Horary is not determining "Yes," "Yes, but you'll be sorry" or "Not in this life-time" rather it is reading the chart and seeing all the things that are going on in the foreground and background.

The Sun is in Hayz here which is a form of accidental dignity. The Sun is a general significator for leaders, managers, supervisors, people in authority, one's reputation or standing in the community and one's personal credit. The only thing dings the Sun a bit is the applying sextile by Moon from Aquarius which is the House of the Sun's Detriment. The Moon does receive the Sun by Face which is a really weak dignity and plays no part in Reception. At the risk of being misconstrued, the saving grace here is that the Moon aspects her Dispositor Saturn by whole sign trine and Sun aspects his Dispositor Jupiter by whole sign square. Anyway the Moon being in the 3rd Sign from the Sun and in sextile to Moon with no perfect Reception might suggest you can communicate but he doesn't necessarily respect your opinions but that you have some esteem for his (in receiving Sun by Face).

Jupiter rules his 6th House (and we would read Jupiter as in his 6th even though it is in the 11th because it is within 5° of the Cusp) which is things he does every day and those who work for him or are under his authority or have some work or business relationship with him.

Mars in Capricorn in the 9th is exalted and an exalted Planet can sometimes be haughty and arrogant and this is made even greater because Mars is conjunct the North Node. The North Node increases whatever it is with (except the Moon -- Moon within 12° of either Node is damaged and doesn't perform), so if North Node was with Jupiter in Pisces, then Jupiter would be even stronger and more Benefic.

With the 9th House being Religion/Education/Ideology, he can be a little overwhelming with his opinions and views on issues. There's nothing wrong with being passionate about something, so long as it doesn't interfere in your relationship. Here in America it's quite common to see staunch conservatives married to flaming liberals and their marriages are quite successful (you can look at Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver as one of many good examples where people with opposing political or religious beliefs have very long and good marriages).

The Moon is inconjunct its own House (Cancer) while Venus opposes its own House (Taurus) and Venus is alone in the 7th House and in Detriment. You don't have a lot of power or control here, and that might be just that the issue of whether he will or will not propose marriage is driving you insane.

Originally Posted by natasa

And yes, children is one more issue, not only because of his age, but also for some health issues in his family I do not wish to discuss in public...

That's okay. As long as you both reach an understanding and are in agreement with whatever it is you want to do, it won't be a problem.

Originally Posted by natasa

I have already received a no answer from another member (by PM) because Mars and Venus are separating...

That's a misinterpretation of the texts. If this was a war or legal battle, Venus separating from Mars would indicate that the war or legal battle is going to last for a long, long time.

You can look at the US versus Afghanistan Conflict Chart and see Venus separating from Mars and you see that conflict is still going on (and there is another indicator of a long conflict in that chart as well).

The Moon separating from Planets indicates what has happened in the past. In this chart, you can see the Moon separating from a sextile with Jupiter, separating from conjunctions with Mercury and Mars, separating from a square with Venus etc and that shows things that have happened in the past.

The applying aspects the Moon makes, sextiles to Mars and Mercury, trine with Venus, conjunction with Jupiter, opposition to Saturn etc are things that will happen in the future.

The Moon is the indicator of what has happened and what will happen, not the Planets. I think people erroneously assume that if the Moon separating indicates something in the past then a Planet separating also indicates something in the past, but that isn't necessarily so.

Originally Posted by natasa

In our way of interpreting (by looking the 4th and the 10th - the end of the matter) - I saw a nice trine - telling me that is as yes.

That's another thing people have misinterpreted.

Originally Posted by William Lily

But as the Sun at time of the Question was strong, he did overcome all manner of difficulties for many years, and subsisted, and hath in our unlucky differences had honorable Employment on his Majesties part: but as the Moon is in Opposition to Mars, so it was not without the general out-cry and exclamations of the people; nor was it his fortune, though in great Commands, ever to do his Majesty any notable piece of Service; yet is he now forever, by just Sentence of the Parliament, deprived of so much happiness as to end his days in England; which, though in some measure, might have been foreseen, by the Moon her Opposition to Mars, being Lord of the 4th, the end of all things.

The "end of all things" and the "end of the matter" are not the same thing.

That Question pertains to 1st House Matters only.

He mentions it again here:

Originally Posted by William Lily

As to the end of the business, see to the 4th house, and let that signify the end thereof; if there be a Fortune therein, or if the Lord of the 4th be there, or behold the house with Sextile or Trine, there will come a good end of the matter in hand, both parties will be pleased: but if an Infortune be there, in conclusion, the Matter, bargain or thing demised will neither please the one party or other.

That issue involves a 4th House Matter, namely the buying and selling of real estate which is governed by the 4th House.

He uses it again here...

Originally Posted by William Lily

the Judges defamation will be great if Mars be in Opposition to Saturn, unless Mars be with Saturn in Capricorn, then the scandal will be the less. But to be short, in these like Judgments observe this method; the Querent is signified by the Lord of the ascendant, the Adversary by the Lord of the 7th, the Judge by the Lord of the 10th, the end of the matter from the Lord of the 4th; consider well the Lords of the houses, their Fortitudes, and whether they be in Angles, Succedent or Cadent, Fortunate or not Fortunate; for the Planet that is most strong, and best posited, is the best man, and most likely to carry the victory, and hath the best Cause.

...which I pointed out on another thread.

Anyway there is no doctrinal basis for the "4th House" being the end of the matter. The 4th House is the end of the matter for 1st House issues, which are life, health and happiness, but not for other Horary Questions.

The 4th House was used in the other Question because it was a 4th House Matter, and in the case of the lawsuit, the 4th House was the end of the matter because it was the House opposite the Judge's House.

None of that shows the 4th House is the end of the matter.

Lily didn't use Arabic Parts (except for the Part of Fortune) and he quoted mostly from Bonatti who did use Arabic Parts and he probably misunderstood Bonatti's discussion of Arabic Parts derived from the 4th House, which does happen to include a particular Arabic Part or Greek Lot that tells the end of the matter, but again, that doesn't mean the 4th House is the end of the matter, it merely means there is a Part/Lot based on the 4th House that is used to determine the end of the matter.

It's easy to see how people can get confused and things mistranslated.

In conflicts and lawsuits, the 1st House Ruler in the 7th House means the Querent will lose (and in a conflict would probably die), but that isn't how we interpret that in a relationship Question.

The 1st House Ruler in the 7th House indicates the Querent loves the Quesited in a relationship Question (and no that is not inconsistent with the interpretation of conflicts or lawsuits).

How we interpret a Question for a particular Matter doesn't mean we can apply that to other Matters or Questions.

A good example is Timing. The Timing Method used for 1st House Matters only applies to 1st House Matters and nothing else. There are at least 5 different Timing Methods and their use is totally dependent on the Question (and yes I'm still working on sorting those out).

If you apply the wrong Timing Method (like I did recently) you mess up the answer (which is one reason I didn't give a time other than "soon" because I'm really sure which of the many Timing Methods to use for 7th House Questions).

Originally Posted by natasa

Hollidays are comming, I`ll inform you, I saw the Saturn in his 12th (hidden plans - something he does often - he surprises me with plans, some gift or ``development`` of a relaionship to the next level).

Well, then, at least try to act surprised. The other thing I forgot to mention is that Venus aspects her Dispositor Mars by whole sign sextile, which is a good thing.

[juicey J.]

Why so much text and explanations? The answer simply is no the signifcantor and the ruler of the question (7th house ruler) are in seperating aspect. He may propose but it won't be on christmas, sorry.

[natasa]

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[natasa]

[..........................................

[BobZemco]

Originally Posted by juicey J.

Why so much text and explanations?

This is ostensibly a "teaching forum" and as all the masters have said, it is best to write out your judgments fully because it reinforces the material (ie you learn faster) and you can see where you made mistakes if the matter doesn't come to pass fully or is destroyed after it is perfected.

I lead by example.

Many people have access to Lily and to a lesser extent Gadbury (who I find to be more readable than Lily) but few have access to Abu'ali, Abu'mashar, Masha'allah, al-Qabasi, Bonatti and others, but I do (especially since I had some of my books sent). People have access to Ptolemy's Tetrabilblos as well, but it is loaded with idiomatic expressions and terms and difficult to read (unless you have experience reading ancient texts).

I usually write out judgments to introduce people to new concepts and turn them on to the writings of earlier astrologers.

There are two questions I'll answer but not explain (and amusingly everyone uses the wrong significators or incorrectly interprets the charts for those two particular questions), because there's already enough stupidity on this forum and just like I wouldn't give a loaded gun to a 4-year old, I wouldn't give a nuclear bomb to a 4-year old either, so I'm not going to give people ammunition to fill the forum with even more stupidity from those with prurient interests or who are morbid curiosity seekers or who are just plain whacked in the head (and they need intensive psychotherapy and not horary).

Those who know, know, and those who don't, well, now they have something they can look forward to learning.

As ibn Ezra said, "...and those who know and understand will keep silent."

Originally Posted by juicey J.

The answer simply is no the signifcantor and the ruler of the question (7th house ruler) are in seperating aspect. He may propose but it won't be on christmas, sorry.

Certainly you can tell us which authority you are quoting.

I'm quoting Zael from On Questions (7.1):

Originally Posted by Sahl bin Bishr the Israelite

If the Lord of the Ascendant or the Moon were joined to the Lord of the seventh, or were in the seventh, he will get the woman.

In this Chart the "Lord of the Ascendant" is in the 7th House in case anyone hadn't noticed, and it's a "she will get her man" instead.

There's a little more to it than that, and Zael doesn't really expound much on marriages and the like since he was into other things (like conflicts which is what he is best noted for).

If you read Lily you only need a trine (best) or sextile with Reception by one of the Querent's signifcators to a significator of the Quesited Matter.

We have that here with a trine by Moon to Saturn and Saturn receives Moon by Rulership. Lily would say the matter will be perfected.

There is the issue of Moon sextile Sun without Reception, but Saturn is cutting off the light from the Sun (since Moon will perfect the trine with Saturn before it perfects the sextile with Sun), so that isn't an issue now.

Originally Posted by Natasa

Traditional astrology you use described him better

But of course. Traditional astrology is objective, while modern astrology is highly subjective.

Originally Posted by Natasa

Another question I have is: if we take the 3rd house (my 3rd) for the house of marriage (contracts, verbal communication - proposal...), than the 4th from the 3rd would be 6th? Ruled by Mercury with Saturn in it?

The 4th is not the "end of matter." As I pointed out, that is bad astrology from people who don't understand what they are reading.

When someone asks a question about life and health, that is a 1st House Question. We do look at the 4th House, not because it is the "end of the matter," but because it is the "end of all things" including life, which is what the question is about.

The 4th House is death (the 8th House is how you die):

Originally Posted by Zael

The Fourth Domicile...and death and what is going to be after death (that is, what will happen to the dead person, namely from the grave, and whether the dead person would be dug up or cremated, or put on a gibbet, or thrown out in some place, and all the rest of the things which happen to the dead).

Again, the 4th House is not the "end of the matter" except for specific questions about life.

As Lily points out, the 4th House is the "end of the matter" for 4th House questions. It would be absurd to suggest that the 4th House (or fourth House) is the "end of the matter" for all questions, because clearly it is not, since the 4th House is the first House in questions about 4th House Matters.

The only other mention is when Lily says the 4th House is the "end of the matter" because it is opposite the 10th House of the Judge.

Again, it is totally absurd to think that the 4th House is the end of the matter when clearly it is the house opposite, or the seventh House which is the "end of the matter" in that particular question. From that, the only conclusion you could draw is that the seventh House, not the fourth House is the "end of the matter."

I know there are some web-sites that claim the fourth House is the "end of the matter" but that's based on bad astrology and a misinterpretation of the texts and how the houses are used in those particular questions.

There's also an Arabic Part/Greek Lot based on the 4th House and I think people have misunderstood that to mean the 4th House is the "end of the matter" when clearly it is not (and you can read Bonatti Tractate 8 and he makes no claims that the 4th House is the "end of the matter").

Originally Posted by Natasa

Thank you again, will post a feedback, wish you the best, send some links if you can about traditional astrology and where can I draw my natal in that system so maybe it will make more sence...

If you search you can find and download Adobe files on Lily and also Gadbury (who I think some people might find easier to read).

There's a web-site on Lily and Horary and another on traditional astrology in general, but I don't post links because I find the people there to be pompous asses.

[juicey J.]

I'm not quoting any authority bob, most horary knowledge I have is second hand and I read primarly only applying aspects are counted. Also, I heard the 4th isn't the end of the matter the ic (which is only the 4th house cusp in certain house systems) and the moon's last aspects from what I understand represents such. For example if the the chart for the completion of the titanic is correct its accident/sinking is forshadowed in the electional charts ic square to mars.

[BobZemco]

Originally Posted by juicey J.

For example if the the chart for the completion of the titanic is correct its accident/sinking is forshadowed in the electional charts ic square to mars.

Do you have that? I'd like to see it.

I'm not sure Mars square IC is enough to justify it, but Aries does rule the bow and Taurus the forecastle (the area right underneath the bow -- in the film "Under Siege" with Steven Segal the crew of the battleship Missouri was imprisoned in the forecastle).

Normally for ships you use the date/time the keel was laid, or the date/time it was christened.

I was under the impression the Titanic struck an iceberg at the bow or at mid-ship just aft of the bow.

[natasa]

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[julia]

Originally Posted by natasa

Feedback

This coversation took place this morning (7 days before Christmas):

1. Yes he wants to marrie me only it is too early to do that now because he is not sure at the moment do our characters ``absolutelly agree``.
2. Yes, he told his mother about us.
3. Yes, he met me to his friends and other members of one association he is a headmaster (trying to avoid too many detailes in public by not mentioning what association and his exact position).
4. Yes he invited me to an event with all of his colleagues and friends in there to ``officially`` represent me (something he does latelly all the time by taking me with him - everywhere and meeting me to - everyone)...

5. No, he did not meet me to his mother (just told her about ``us`` and speaks to her from my home telephone - so yes, she knows).
6. No, he did not say exactly ``would you marry me`` - only that he wants to.
7. No, I am not staying here for hollidays (I think I am not but the road is almoust closed because of snow / storm / ice / ice rainfall /car accidents and my mother adviced me not to travel - YET). Too much ``NOT YET`` from everyone and patience is not a Sagittarian characteristics.


8. I want to leave even by foot (true the storm).
10. Yes he knows I am leaving and he wants to continue the relationship after (he will spend Christmas with...? his mother of course) and he was very calm like nothing is happening - me leaving, him staying in here and we will just continue after...

Don`t know what future brings, sounded like a YES BUT NOT YET, acctually didn`t quite understand it (me, being more ``practical`` ...).
I`ll keep you informed. There is a possibility for me to stay here for Christmas - storm / ice and all the rest ( and he told me that we will go out) so, if anything ``spectacular`` happens or changes I`ll post...

congratulations!!! these are wonderful news. Merry Christmas and happy new year= kala xristougenna kai eutuxismeno to kainourio etos (in greek). thank you for updated us!

[natasa]

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[tikana]

Originally Posted by natasa

Feedback

This coversation took place this morning (7 days before Christmas):

1. Yes he wants to marrie me only it is too early to do that now because he is not sure at the moment do our characters ``absolutelly agree``.
2. Yes, he told his mother about us.
3. Yes, he met me to his friends and other members of one association he is a headmaster (trying to avoid too many detailes in public by not mentioning what association and his exact position).
4. Yes he invited me to an event with all of his colleagues and friends in there to ``officially`` represent me (something he does latelly all the time by taking me with him - everywhere and meeting me to - everyone)...

5. No, he did not meet me to his mother (just told her about ``us``).
6. No, he did not say exactly ``would you marry me`` - only that he wants to.
7. No, I am not staying here for hollidays (I think I am not but the road is almoust closed because of snow / storm / ice / ice rainfall /car accidents and my mother adviced me not to travel - YET). Too much ``NOT YET`` from everyone and patience is not a Sagittarian characteristics.


8. I want to leave even by foot (true the storm).
10. Yes he knows I am leaving and he wants to continue the relationship after (he will spend Christmas with...? his mother of course) and he was very calm like nothing is happening - me leaving, him staying in here and we will just continue after...

Don`t know what future brings, sounded like a YES BUT NOT YET, acctually didn`t quite understand it (me, being more ``practical`` ...).
I`ll keep you informed. There is a possibility for me to stay here for Christmas - storm / ice and all the rest ( and he told me that we will go out) so, if anything ``spectacular`` happens or changes I`ll post...

wait a second!

this is not a proposal

proposal is "will you marry me" and he puts a ring on your finger.

What he says sounds like he would like to marry you but then Mars / Venus are separating. Moon is not in lovey dovey sign, not exactly great news IMO

Another thing that worries me is your venus is in his 1st 9you love him more than he does you.

Venus and Mars separating is nothing less than troublesome.

i hope i am wrong

T

[natasa]

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