Astrological meaning of Friendship

[freedomlover]

Frisiangal brought up some very important questions regarding the 11th house and how and where friendship could be interpreted in the chart. I felt that it needed it's own thead to get the attention it deserved.

"I've always had difficulty with the 11th house as being the house of 'friendship' in the way Holly refers to it. The 11th house is the airy place where we all get together with people we may not know, and with whom we do not personally associate, to share an ideology, whether that's astrology, communal services or football . We may not even like some of the people in the group and wish they would go away! This doesn't sound like a 'friendship' house to me. Friendship, as Holly desires it, is something more personal. We can, after all, choose our friends (or vice versa) but not the members of any team or group we are affiliated to. I therefore think the house of friendship would be one where we relate and communicate with people in a more general, rather than social manner. I am strongly drawn to the 3rd house as representing this, and possibly the 7th house when it comes to that very special and intimate, but non-sexual relationship that two people can share with each other.

How do others feel about the house representing 'Friendship'?"(quote)

Personally, I also associate the 11th house and Aquarius, with the phrase "Am I my brother's keeper?" and "brotherly love". The waterbearer, symbol of Aquarius, represents the "pouring out of the waters of the Spirit" upon mankind. It is made manifest as we each get in touch with our own emotional pain and release it, and helping others do the same. Emotional blockages cause hard hearts, and so prevent us from fulfilling our deep need to love one another as we love ourselves. So, in its highest form, this house and sign represents true friendship. It also has to do with the phrase that "We are all God's children", and equality. It represents the Christ consciousness and the "body of Christ" that is spoken about in the Bible: All of the members performing their specific function, with one head, the Christ (which is the Christ Consciousness). This comes into play when the balance with its polarity, Leo, is achieved. "You've got to come from the heart if you want it to work" - each individual's native talents are used, instead of them doing a job for the attention or the money, etc. That way the ear is an ear, and not a nose; and an elbow is an elbow, and not a knee, etc.

However, I agree with Frisiangal that the 3rd and 7th also have much to do with aspects of friendship. I think it is just the air signs, in general ,that deal with the aspects of friendship and communication. Without good communication, you can have no true friendship, I think.

[wilsontc]

Freedom,

Perhaps it helps to break down the meanings of Gemini, Libra, and Aquarius to find out "what makes them tick"!

Gemini - Social Learning

Libra - Social Action

Aquarius - Social Security

Looked at in this way Gemini is the "getting to know you" energy, Libra is about what we are going to DO with the other person, and Aquarius is a way we can use our social connections to feel "safe". So Aquarius is trying to build a world that is "safer" to them...using their social abilities. This means having around us people we like "friends", rebuilding the world in the way that best works for us ("restructuring"), attacking others way if we it makes us feel nervous ("rebellion/terrorism"). Aquarius is "friends" on the surface, but there is also a "shadow side" to this "friendship"...as those who have had challenging Uranus (ruler of Aquarius) transits (planets in the sky) well know!

In friendship,

Tim

[Howl]

Excellent thread idea, Freedomlover. A topic very close to my heart!

I would be tempted to divide my friends into those that, in my mind, belong to the 7th AND 11th house, and those that only really "stay" in the 11th house. The former will be "with me" for life, even if I don't see them often. The latter come and go, I appreciate them greatly, but I can find them anywhere. They are the "I love humanity" kind of friends rather than the "I love you, particularly" kind of friends.

I guess this might be rather particular to me, given that my moon is in gemini in the 11th (getting to know you, but not necessarily keeping hold of you) and venus in aqua in the 7th (aqua might be the impersonal sign, but it is fixed, and venus is at home in the seventh house. I do keep hold of those friends).

I never thought of friends as to do with the 3rd house. I'll have to consider that. I've got both Saturn and Pluto in my Libran third house, so perhaps THAT has more to do with strong, lasting friendships than I thought.

One question...might the 5th house have something more to do with friends than is usually considered? The 5th is all about people whom you experience "play" and "personal expression" with. As the opposing pole to 11th house, being non-personal, group minded social association, could 5th house include those very close friendships which so help one to express oneself?

Or is that just me, with Uranus in Saggie in the 5th house?

[Firemoon]

Whether you attribute the 5th or the 11th Archetype to the word "Friendship" depends on your definition of friendship.

If you're referring to individuals who love you or like you personally, drinking buddies and those who laugh at your jokes or listen to your stories as 'friends', then it's obvious you're referring to the 5th Archetype.

If your context is something like; "All lovers of democracy are my friends", or "Friends, Romans, Countrymen...", then you're referencing the 11th.

Neither is wrong and neither is exclusive to the term "Friends".

The 5th Archetype as a principle is symbolic of Self-Expression and Creativity. All behaviors and attitudes which are stereotypically associated with it can be understood as an expression of this principle.

The 11th is about Perspective, Distance and Rebellion as a principle. All behaviors and attitudes associated here can be understood inside this framework.

It's important to remember that the description of an "Archetype" is not necessarily the description of any individual human being. Yet we humans partake of these Archetypes. And "Friends", according to your 'take' can be described by both.


FM

[Frisiangal]

Hi All,
I'm happy to see the responses to my query.

This whole question was raised in my mind years ago when looking at my children's, now adults, charts. Text book examples imply that a Saturn influence in the 11th can impinge on 'friendship', whilst my children seemed to be the exception to the rule. Yet, when reflecting upon it.......?

Child 1 has Capricorn on the 11th house cusp. Saturn in Aries conjuncts 3rd house Sun in Taurus, with Mercury in Taurus in 3rd opposing Neptune in Scorpio. She has such a wide circle of friends that the 'difficulty' is fitting everyone in to see them once every 6 months. She 'suffers inwardly' when circumstances arise through which a friendship 'dies'.

Child 2 has Jupiter in Sagittarius in the 11th exact quincunx Saturn in Taurus in the 3rd house and conjunct Gemini I.C. Mercury is in the 12th house conjunct Aquarius Ascendant. He had an abundance of friends with whom he grew up, played sports, made in college, yet lost contact with ALL of them once he became seriously romantically involved.

Child 3 has Saturn in Leo in the 11th house sextile 1st house Mercury . Also a large circle of 'new' friends through her husband's associations. (Aries on 7th house cusp, Mars conjunct Uranus in 3rd house. She met him when she was 13!). She used to dance at international level in a formation team and I have always felt that Saturn was representative of her iron will and discipline necessary to perform in it.

The one repeating factor with all 3 is that not one of them still has friends made in childhood. The 3rd house is strongly emphasised in all their charts.

Could it be that 3rd house 'friendship' refers to that of youth, and the 11th house to that in adulthood, and the sign on the cusp of each to how such 'friendship' is experienced at these stages of growth ?

Could Mercury and its position signify 'friend', just as Sun and Moon signify dad and mum ?

Always questioning.

F.

[wilsontc]

Frisiangal,

If we look at the chart houses as something individual and separate, it may seem like any keyword could fit any house and 3rd house "thinking" could just as easily be "friends". But if we look at the chart as an evolving process of life, the keywords normally assigned to each house make more sense.

The bottom part of the chart is about our "inner world"...about us as separate from others in the outside world...even though we may be aware of them. So, in the 3rd house we are not involved with others in the outside world and are more concerned with ourself and our inner world. But when we cross the dividing line of the 6th house and move into the 7th house, we step out of our "inner world" and move into the "outer world", where we start interacting with others around us. The first step in this interaction with others is "relating" to others (7th house)...being aware that there is "someone else" there...and a step much later is to create a social system of friends (11th house).

It is this social system that describes friendship, when a person out in the outer world uses their own self awareness to decide who they want to be around. That is the "friendliness" of the 11th house...the ability to be friendly with others...but it only happens once one has learned to think and talk (3rd house) and to relate to others (7th house)...THEN the person can develop friends (11th house).

Also, in these three specific cases, it would be interesting to know what the CHILD thinks of as their focuses. While an outsider may see them with a wide circle of "friends" the person who OWNS the energy (the chart owner, i.e., the children) may see things QUITE differently. This is the problem with interpreting charts of someone else without the person being there: we don't know how much we are interpreting their own chart energies...and how much we are reading into the chart the things we think SHOULD be there. The person who understands a chart best is the person who lives, eats, and breathes the energies of that chart.

About houses as a life evolution,

Tim

[Frisiangal]

[quote=wilsontc]Frisiangal,

If we look at the chart houses as something individual and separate, it may seem like any keyword could fit any house and 3rd house "thinking" could just as easily be "friends". But if we look at the chart as an evolving process of life, the keywords normally assigned to each house make more sense.

The bottom part of the chart is about our "inner world"...about us as separate from others in the outside world...even though we may be aware of them. So, in the 3rd house we are not involved with others in the outside world and are more concerned with ourself and our inner world.

I agree that the 3rd house deals with the inner thought processes, but is it not also true that before our thoughts become purely personal and our own opinion ( 9th house), we are influenced by siblings, family, neighbours, schooling, local environment, that form them and have an effect upon how we connect and inter-relate with other people? All are associated with the 3rd house, yet 'friends and -ship' does not appear to be on the list. How can we experience differences of thought to form our own if we don't connect with other people to understand any difference ? To have a truly personal and unbiased 3rd house 'inner world' experience, one would have to live and be the sole inhabitant on a desert island. Yet even so, it's possible that watching a bird dive to catch a fish will present a thought on how to catch one for one's self. We might even attempt to become friends with the bird to discover how it does it .

But when we cross the dividing line of the 6th house and move into the 7th house, we step out of our "inner world" and move into the "outer world", where we start interacting with others around us. The first step in this interaction with others is "relating" to others (7th house)...being aware that there is "someone else" there...and a step much later is to create a social system of friends (11th house).

As you say, the air houses in general are 'relating' houses. But I believe there to be a big difference between relating to someone on a personal level ( the type of relationship Holly seeks in friendship) and the social relating of the 11th house. Would you tell the members of the (hypothetical) football team about your success with the local floozie the night before, or would it be something you spoke of to 'a friend' only ? Do you (hypothetically speaking) share and tell your partner EVERYTHING, or are there some things that you talk over only with 'a friend'. This is my my 'mindset' that makes it difficult for me to accept 'friendship' as an 11th house influence.

It is this social system that describes friendship, when a person out in the outer world uses their own self awareness to decide who they want to be around. That is the "friendliness" of the 11th house...the ability to be friendly with others...but it only happens once one has learned to think and talk (3rd house) and to relate to others (7th house)...THEN the person can develop friends (11th house).

I know my nit-picking Virgo Ascendant is at work here, but I don't think the 11th house relates to 'being friendly', rather than the abilty to socialise in the world with people who 'think' the same way.

Also, in these three specific cases, it would be interesting to know what the CHILD thinks of as their focuses. While an outsider may see them with a wide circle of "friends" the person who OWNS the energy (the chart owner, i.e., the children) may see things QUITE differently. This is the problem with interpreting charts of someone else without the person being there: we don't know how much we are interpreting their own chart energies...and how much we are reading into the chart the things we think SHOULD be there. The person who understands a chart best is the person who lives, eats, and breathes the energies of that chart.

Tim.

That is very true.
My son (Aquarius rising and Aquarius Sun in 1st) has never mentioned the lack of friends in his life, althought there are many ACQUAintances with whom he socialises. The thoughts expressed regarding the two girls are a result arising from their own comments.

Always sifting,

F.

[wilsontc]

Frisiangal,

You said:

...is it not also true that before our thoughts become purely personal and our own opinion ( 9th house), we are influenced by siblings, family, neighbours, schooling, local environment, that form them and have an effect upon how we connect and inter-relate with other people?

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I realize now that you may be looking at the chart from an "adult" point of view, in which all our senses are fully developed and we are naturally "aware" of our surroundings. But I was looking at the chart at more of a birth to death point of view and, in our early life (i.e., just at our birth), we are not as aware of the world as we are later (i.e., as an adult).

We come into existence of ourselves (i.e., are born) when we first become aware of our BEING (1rst house) at our birth. With time we come into an awareness that we have a PHYSICAL body (2nd house). Over a little more time we become aware of being aware and discover that we are THINKING (3rd house). Eventually our awareness of our BEING, PHYSICAL, and THINKING come together into an awareness of being in a certain place, our HOME (4th house).

We develop and awareness of our HOME (4th house) over time and, as we become comfortable in our home we begin to test out our SELF-EXPRESSSION (5th house). However, we discover that it takes a lot of working and reworking through DAILY WORK (6th house) to perfect our self-expression. All of this work on HOME, SELF-EXPRESSION, and DAILY WORK is to prepare ourselves for RELATIONSHIPS (7th house).

After we understand who we are, we meet the outside world and make RELATIONSHIPS (7th house) in an effort to understand who these other people are around us. With time we meet special people who help develop and cause TRANSFORMATION (8th house) in us through our contact with them. Out of this transformation comes an EXPANSION of our world as we learn and grow our knowledge of others. Over time our RELATIONSHIPS, TRANSFORMATION, and EXPANSION develop and grow until we get a sense of our DUTY (10th house) to the world at large.

At this time we are adults, and know that we can not simply do what we want all the time, instead we have a DUTY (10th house) to others to take our self-awareness and ability to interact to help structure the world around us. Over time we meet other people who have similar duties and responsibilities who become our FRIENDS (11th house). These friends also have ideas of their own how we can restructure the world around us and so improve it. With repeated restructurings the barriers around us begin to collapse until we realize that nothing separates us from other people except our own self-created barriers. As we tear down those final barriers between us and others we discover SPIRITUALITY (12th house). But, while we are tearing down these barriers we are also destroying the rules and regulations of which we set our life. Over time, this destruction of the structures around us becomes a destruction of our bodies, and we die.

For those who do not believe in reincarnation the story stops there. But those who do believe in reincarnation point out that the chart is a circle, and the 12th house leads directly to the 1rst house (rebirth). So we are then reborn into the 1rst house, and the cycle starts again!

As to your point:

I don't think the 11th house relates to 'being friendly', rather than the abilty to socialise in the world with people who 'think' the same way.

I agree, and that's why I mentioned that having friends is about deciding who we want to be around: who we want to associate with, in other words. As has been said before about Aquarius, the water bearer, (associated with 11th house), Aquarius decides WHO they want their water to go to! And so we made (and break) friendships all the time. But, until we have had the experience of interacting with others (7th house), we can never have "friends", since having the concept of "friends" requires us to understand one-on-one social interaction (7th house). In other words, we have to go THROUGH 7th house awareness to get to 11th house awareness.

As to your other point:

Do you (hypothetically speaking) share and tell your partner EVERYTHING, or are there some things that you talk over only with 'a friend'.

I suggest that "partner" and "friend" in this case are both the same thing: a one-on-one relationship more suitable for being described as 7th house (relationships) than as the more "distant" connection of 11th house (friends). "Friends" is about a social system that extends BEYOND one-on-one contacts. When we are talking about one-on-one we are talking about relationships. When we are talking about one-on-many, we are talking about "friends".

Picking nits,

Tim

[Frisiangal]

Originally Posted by charmvirgo

Air = communication

gemini/3rd = of the one - intellect
libra/7th = between two - love
aquarius/11th = of the many - frienship and humanitarianism

everybody here is overanalysing this, it is giving me a headache

Sorry to be the cause of a headache.
Does this mean that for a Virgo Ascendant, Mercury in Taurus 9th trine Ascendant and square Pluto in 11th, questioning and analysing astro. symbolism is not prefered and astro. rules are binding?

Makes me wonder what's gonna happen now that Pluto has been demoted, Ceres has been promoted and Eris has made an appearance, but I daren't ask.

F.

[Frisiangal]

I appreciate the replies regarding my 'house problem'.

I don't know if I was looking at the question from 'an adult point of view', Tim, because, as you say, the wheel of life is a continuous motion from birth to death. Even a babe goes through the 'separation' from its mother into a knowledge of 'I' and 'not I'. The meaning of the realms of experience are valid from birth, IMO, and and become conscious and inter-connected through active experience of them. It is simply that house labelled 'friendship' that always niggles and I can't get my mind around, even after 25 years of astrology.

Thank you, too, for your thoughts, Charmvirgo. I envy you that you can keep things clear and simple. I always want to go into the depth and beyond the visible with astro. symbolism, never satisfied until it is proven by fact. Gets me into regular trouble.

I was referring to my own chart in the quote. I'd be interested to read your (and any others) feelings and thoughts on the 'friendship element' within it.
12-05-1944,
14:48. (12:48 GMT)
London, England.

[holly]

Originally Posted by wilsontc

I suggest that "partner" and "friend" in this case are both the same thing: a one-on-one relationship more suitable for being described as 7th house (relationships) than as the more "distant" connection of 11th house (friends).
Tim

Just on that point, I agree that friendship in that one on one sense could be described as 7th house. But I wonder, how would you explain success in one on one romantic relationships but problems with one on one friendships?

As I've just found out, my chart suggests a pretty bad deal for me when it comes to friendship (by looking at the 7th house). However I found someone who wants to marry me . (also 7th house.) Isn't that a bit of a contradiction?

[milkywaygirl]

Originally Posted by holly

Just on that point, I agree that friendship in that one on one sense could be described as 7th house. But I wonder, how would you explain success in one on one romantic relationships but problems with one on one friendships?

As I've just found out, my chart suggests a pretty bad deal for me when it comes to friendship (by looking at the 7th house). However I found someone who wants to marry me . (also 7th house.) Isn't that a bit of a contradiction?

holly you should post his chart! i'd love to see it and compare to yours synastrically (sp?) maybe a new thread is in order!

[wilsontc]

Holly,

Different people will affect us in different ways, depending on how our energies combine. So we may have one-on-one "friends" we don't get along with and one-on-one "relationships" with others we DO get along with. It depends on the person, the friends, the relationships, and the overall situation. It is also possible there is something in our chart that makes us naturally more comfortable with the intimacy of "relationships" and less comfortable with the distance of "friendships" (close but not TOO close).

Although planets focused in a house indicate focus on the issues of that house, that does NOT mean if there are no planets in the house that the person is completely unable to have anytyhing happen in the issues of that house. In your example, simply because a person does not have planets in the 7th house (relationships), it does not mean that they can never be in a relationship. Instead, it indicates that the person does not FOCUS on relationships...they do not have relationships for the sake of being in a realtionship. Even if a person has no planets in the 7th house, they may still find the right "someone" that they WANT to have a relationship with.

Relating friendlily,

Tim

[holly]

Originally Posted by milkywaygirl

holly you should post his chart! i'd love to see it and compare to yours synastrically (sp?) maybe a new thread is in order!

I would love to! How exciting! hehe I'll start a new thread (I'll go to Relational Astrology) so I don't hijack this discussion.

And thank you Tim,

Originally Posted by wilsontc

It is also possible there is something in our chart that makes us naturally more comfortable with the intimacy of "relationships" and less comfortable with the distance of "friendships" (close but not TOO close).

Good point, that makes sense.

[Frisiangal]

Originally Posted by holly

Just on that point, I agree that friendship in that one on one sense could be described as 7th house. But I wonder, how would you explain success in one on one romantic relationships but problems with one on one friendships?

As I've just found out, my chart suggests a pretty bad deal for me when it comes to friendship (by looking at the 7th house). However I found someone who wants to marry me . (also 7th house.) Isn't that a bit of a contradiction?

That sounds as if you became engaged for that reason and not because you love him enough to want to marry him too .

I've looked back but can't find the original thread with your natal chart, Holly, to recap. upon it. I agree with Tim's explanation about house (non) focus and, as others have mentioned, a relating house ruler's position will also provide extra info. about the ease of going about it. I have no planet in either my 3rd or 7th house, and Mars-NN-Pluto in my 11th house, yet I have very close and long-lasting relationships with friends and family alike and have been married to the same man ( difficult !!! ) for almost 40 years. An interestng factor is that each 'air' house is ruled by a different element! Go figure .

F.

[holly]

Originally Posted by Frisiangal

That sounds as if you became engaged for that reason and not because you love him enough to want to marry him too .

Hehe yeah well if I can't make any friends I might as well get married. That way I always have someone on hand who is obligated to spend time with me!

Originally Posted by Frisiangal

I've looked back but can't find the original thread with your natal chart, Holly, to recap. upon it. I agree with Tim's explanation about house (non) focus and, as others have mentioned, a relating house ruler's position will also provide extra info. about the ease of going about it. I have no planet in either my 3rd or 7th house, and Mars-NN-Pluto in my 11th house, yet I have very close and long-lasting relationships with friends and family alike and have been married to the same man ( difficult !!! ) for almost 40 years. An interestng factor is that each 'air' house is ruled by a different element! Go figure .

I'll attach my chart incase you're still interested.

Maybe an empty 7th is easier than a crowded 7th when it comes to forming relationships? Because the house is empty, it's not the main focus, so relationships come easily while in the meantime your chart is busy focusing on career or something else. Maybe the planets indicate where you struggle, not where you excel. I don't know, just thinking out loud.

[Frisiangal]

[quote=charmvirgo]Dear Frisiangal

So, looking at your chart with regard to communication, close relationships and outer relationships...
(I prefer equal house and use traditional rulerships)

Venus in Taurus shows you are very sensual and loyal, and crave physical affection - this is directed through 8th so those feelings run very deep and you are most likely to have long standing, meaningful and valued personal relationships. Mercury is conjunct Venus, so communication is best expressed with a close partner and your words are tactful and gentle, but you avoid speaking superficially or about anything trivial.

Hi Charmvirgo,
Thank you for taking the time to dissect me.
I use the Placidus house system, which I find is very accurate, but I understand that Equal House has great advantages in the psychology of astrology. So, let's see if we can combine the two, remembering that it is extremely difficult to be totally objective about one's self, although with Uranus conjunct my M.C., that could well be my mission in life .

Venus in Taurus:I am a very 'physical' person and expressing affection rates high on my list of priorities. Hugs and kisses, 'lovely to see you', and 'touching' people. Gets me into trouble with those who are not so fond of familiarity (e.g. apologizing by touching an arm!).
With Mercury: People have said that I am 'thoughtful'. I think of how a person would like this or that, not wish to hear this or that. Honesty is a problem! If someone asks me if I like the totally hideous dress they are wearing, I can't say 'yes' and have to find other words. I'm not so much tactful as discriminate ( trine Virgo Ascendant) in 'choosing' my words.
I have always preferred an interesting dialogue to talking about babies' napkins but am not intellectually orientated. I go on proof of fact and not theory.
Equal house would put Scorpio on 3rd house cusp. Placidus provides end Libra. An interesting detail is that I met my foreign (Sagittarius Sun) husband (Mercury-Venus in 9th?) via an international pen-pal club (now known as 'Internet Chat'?). It was in a foreign country that I became interested in and learnt astrology, which provided deeper insights into the complexities within human character. Such interest wasn't there from the beginning, but something I grew into (Scorpio intercepted?) after a close personal relationship with a Taurus Sun failed. (Venus semi-square Saturn, square Pluto in 10th Equal House and 11th (platonic relationships) Placidus. The relationship totally changed the course of my life.

Saturn in Gemini may make you doubt your ability to communicate, also you are cautious about saying too much. Your 3rd house is empty so the focus is more on Gemini, likewise for 7th so I am looking at Neptune in Libra - your close relationships conform to universal ideals.

Saturn in Gemini: Not so much the 'doubt' but being 'cautious' as you say. I've become a 'serious' thinker. I no longer take things at face value. I've learnt from my mistakes. Urunus in Gemini conjunct M.C. from 9th Equal House or 10th Placidus eventually changed my ideas through introducing me to astrology.My responsibility towards my children (Saturn rules 5th plus Moon in Capricorn) has governed my life's path.

Neptune in Libra: I have GREAT difficulty with my Neptune side. In Equal house 1st house but just inside Placidus 2nd. Neptune rules my Descendant, although traditional rulerships place it under Sagittarius...my husband's Sun sign!
Being a Sun and Venus in Taurus, materialism is important to me. Our 'discussions' are about money/values and my place in our relationship. What's mine is his, and what's his is his! It's his way or no way. I have always said that if there was a previous life, I was the slave and he was the Lord . It's been said that I give in for the sake of peace. I doubt that I would go that far for world peace! Obviously, the Utopian 'Love Is All' relationship remains an illusion. I AM romatically inclined, which expresses itself through romantic boy-gets-girl and tears-at-the-end films.

Mars is in Cancer, so you put all your energy into your family, have a very soft side to you and are fiercely protective. You could be the 'mother figure' of a group with Mars in 11th

This hits the nail directly on the head. The 'mother figure' has also been said of me on more than one occasion. I care about people in an impersonal way (11th house) but used to have difficulty expressing my feelings (Moon in Cap.) in a personal capacity, bottling everything inside. Astrology brought out this side of me. I've always had a strong imagination (Cancer).

and you could have sporty friends, or be in, or lead a team of some sort, whether sporty or not - or this could be acted out somehow through your family, you can put a lot of energy into a shared goal or ideal.

Mainly correct.
My bane is that after eaving school, in which I was captain of several sports teams, I was no longer physically active. However, when my youngest daughter started dancing in a formation team, my husband and I became strong team supporters..with banners, tooters and flags... (mother role to group!) and took up dancing ourselves, which subsequently introduced us to new people who later became friends.

Pluto in 11th is squaring Venus and Mercury, tranformation to your relationships can come through outer friends and acquaintances, it can also mean that you bring transformation to groups of people. With the square to Venus, you have the potential to be very jealous and obsessive in relationships and you experience powerful sexual attraction.

As said above, a traumatic experience changed the course of my life. In her book on the outer planets, Liz Greene says that the Venus-Pluto relationship is not one of Bride Magazine and Wedding Bells ! I can vouch for that.
My work with astrology has hopefully produced transformation in other people
as it has in me.
I can honestly say that I am not a jealous person, but that may be because I have not experienced any reason to be jealous, emotionally speaking. Pluto in an impersonal house?
I have been 'strongly attracted' to two men other than my husband. Neither went beyond attraction; probably due to Mercury-Venus trine Black Moon Lilith...it never physically manifested.

F, please tell me what you think! Also, please tell me about your name? Why don't you have an avatar, it makes it easier to spot your posts

What do you think yourself? That's what counts.

My pseudonym is based upon where I live. Friesland in 'Dairyland'.
I don't have an avatar because I don't consider myself special to need one, unless it's a Frisian Cow . Apart from which I have absolutely no idea of how to go about creating one. A name's enough, isn't it ?

F.

[Frisiangal]

[quote=charmvirgo]

I am very inexperienced at charts, I did my best.

If that was inexperience speaking, you are well on the way to not only understanding but INTERPRETTING astrology and its symbolism. That's where many get stuck. Had I been a client, I would have been impressed.

I think I meant about the Neptune that you have an idealisitic and romantic view of relationships, which you said in a better way than I.

I don't think I did; it's just that, as a heavy Earth/Air influenced person, my Neptune only works on that level . There's so much more of the spiritual and empathetic side to Neptune that later generations have that I don't possess. E.g. If someone is crying, I pass the hankie and let someone else do the sympathising. If someone is sick, I come with the grapes to wish them well whilst someone else empathises with how they're feeling. I have money ready for the voluntary collectors at the door but I don't feel involved enough to want to walk with the charity box myself.
Neptune in Libra is the 'flower power' generation; make love not war; romantic idealism, guru and 60's inspired. I had difficulty with all that. I never lose sight of reality ( Saturn square Neptune), even in relationships. But I CAN choke up at a sad song and weepy movie.

I thought you did fine.

F.