Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Natal Astrology > Dignities & debilities

Dignities & debilities Board for discussing planets in dignities and debilities in natal charts.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 09-11-2010, 02:22 AM
byjove's Avatar
byjove byjove is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,009
Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

"Although Mercury is in detriment in Pisces, this position does not impair intelligence. It merely suggests that the mind resists the rule of pure logic and refuses to be pinned down to hard facts..."

http://www.mindfire.ca/The%20Planets...n%20Pisces.htm

Why is a Refresh Needed?
I've decided to open this thread, despite the information out there on this combination because as a native of this I'm disappointed at the widespread and near-blanket negativity (and at times righteousness) that I find generally accompanies interpretations of this feature of the nativity.

I think this is dangerous becuase it can train people new to astrology that either they or natives of this placement are automatically doomed or crazy. Natives with the Sun in Libra (detriment) are not trained to believe themselves incapable, nor should these natives!

If you judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree, it will spend it's whole life believing it is stupid.
(Some people say Albert Einstein said this, though it is hard to qualify this. The idea is right though.)

What really troubles me when I read about this placement, is a derisive tone about it. Laughing and ridiculing is not understanding.This comes from prejudice and a lack of understanding - not from knowledge. A true understanding of the Zodiac knows there is good and bad potential in every placement and every sign.

When this far is accepted, I'm the very first person ready to sit down and discuss the difficult parts of this placement in the nativity and it's origins. I didn't intend for this to be a scientific or thoroughly academic view of the matter, though any such ideas are always welcome.

Common Attacks on Mercury in Pisces

Delusion and Impracticality
This stems from the imagination. Mutuable water is a rich, fertile ground for dreams. A stern lawyer could of course find a painter as a deluded crazy person that will amount to nothing in life. But that just shows that the lawyer doesn't understand the painter.

Any planet in Pisces runs the risk of building or harbouring beliefs which bring more disappointment than happiness. We must remember that Venus exalts in this sign. Venus is more responsible for social relationships than any other planet (though some may argue the Moon) and so a Venus in Pisces would have some beliefs and behaviour in common with Mercury in Pisces natives. With this in mind, how could M in P natives be so doomed? I think the clues are in the primary functions of Mercury; communication, thought processes - Mercury is the agent of communication to the Sun.

I note that traditional users would refer to Jupiter being the ruler of Pisces and that these assumptions of peril don't appear - they appear with the modern ruler of Neptune. Hopefully, some discussion on this may be possible.

Intelligence
There is a rampant perception that this position creates an 'unintelligent' native. I have never found such prejudice with natives with the Sun in Libra for instance, I don't imagine how they could be 'less able' to achieve their day to day aims or identify in life but I do notice the contrary tendencies and needed adjustments. That is all - no more. So I think this perception with M in P is totally unwarranted, and astrologers who have done their research already know this perception comes from a lack of understanding.

Addictions
I have not known these natives to suffer from addictions any more than the next person. To be honest, living through an economic depression in the West, if I labelled every alcholic/drug user as Mercury in Pisces, one would imagine that everyone tries to have Mercury in Pisces children. The numbers just don't stack up.

Natural Difficulties
A discussion of this placement would benefit perhaps from an honest recognision of natual difficulties. Rejecting prejudices with this placement isn't about denial.

1. Academic study. This is of course altered by other features in the chart, but this placement still has an overriding effect on formal education particularly. Perhaps home education could be different - more personalised and environmental.

2. The Disney Effect. There is a recognisable desire in natives to get along with people. The attitude (and expectation) is honest, open and cooperative. Of course, the rest of the chart alters this but many of these traits still come through. This can prove difficult when accepting that not everyone has one's best interests at heart, is honest and not everyone that smiles at you is a friend. Some natives I've found unable to accept this. Perhaps the good intention is what makes natives vulnerable to unscrupulous types - easy to deceive.

3. Absorbing other's emotions, difficulties etc. In many ways, it's just like taking on the whole world's problems. The thing is that one person cannot fix them. Sympathy to the point of self-destruction is good for no one. Pisces (Neptune or otherwise) is often associated with dissolvement. Natives could perhaps benefit from developing techniques to build walls emotionally to protect themselves.

Mercury in Pisces in Education
I would be very interested in perspectives on this. I can't comment yet on a wide sample of Mercury in Pisces natives in an educational context, though I an at least comment on my own. I always found math and accounting difficult. What became clear was that I understood what needed to be done, but I forgot figures or placements, my mind or concentration wandered. I have studied a number of foreign languages. This is one of the arenas in which I noticed that Mercury in Pisces 'learns as if by osmosis' and definitely not in the traditional, academic, follow-the-rules fashion. Interestingly though, as the well-respected linguistic software Rosetta Stone teaches, the best environment to learn a new language is in a natural, enviornmental one, e.g. surrounded by natives and being a part of day to day life. This is why college courses in languages aim to get students to live abroad (which I did). This aspect of learning I expect Mercury in Pisces would excel in. I suspect Mercury in Pisces played a significant part in my approach in business education - aiming to cooperate, strike alliances and win-win situations.

Natural Talents
I intend to do as deep research on this as I can and heartily welcome contributions. I notice that a powerful imagination is frequent and this could be harnessed. I wonder how many natives are in art, architecture, story-telling, design, writing? If I mention imagination, which Albert Einstein described more important than knowledge, of of course communication ought to be mentioned. Also, any planet in Pisces seems to highlight music in the native's life and Mercury in Pisces along with Venus must be top of the list. With Mercury, we talk of the voice but also of motion - a physical reaction to the sound of music - dancing.

Health conditions related to this position discussed in the medical astrology section: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...319#post450319

Advertisements:

Last edited by byjove; 09-29-2015 at 09:25 AM. Reason: added new link
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to byjove For This Useful Post:
Flapjacks (02-02-2014)
  #2  
Unread 09-11-2010, 02:33 AM
piscesnurse's Avatar
piscesnurse piscesnurse is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: beantown
Posts: 275
Send a message via Yahoo to piscesnurse
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

Thank i have mercury in pisces in conj with sun and venus and p art of fortune in 12
i love my mercury in pisces
i am i am a nurse one has to be smart and have logic and common sense to be a nurse
i use my merc in pisces at work all the time as far as caring and intution
and i am a medical intuitive and i am poetic and i love to write
i feel i have universal love of all
__________________
love is like an electric blanket with someone else in control of the switch

Men Traveling A Narrow Path, Seeking Illumination
10 DEGREES PISCES SABIAN
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 09-11-2010, 02:46 AM
byjove's Avatar
byjove byjove is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,009
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

That's a lovely message Piscesnurse! And such a great exhibit of the finest features! --baths in the knowledge of the firm contribution of Pisces--
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 09-11-2010, 03:11 AM
BobZemco's Avatar
BobZemco BobZemco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: On a web-site far, far away...
Posts: 2,137
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
...an exploration, a discussion and above all a rejection to the misunderstandings of old.
Uh, okay, but you're looking at modern interpretations, not Ancient interpretations. If you want I'd be happy to take a look at your Mercury from an Ancient perspective.
__________________
Addressing his pupil, Satyacharya said, "The science of Astrology is a great secret. It should be guarded with care. This sacred science of Astrology should never be taught to bad people. Nor should it be revealed to too many people and very frequently. It should be taught only to a few chosen disciples who really deserve and have the necessary qualifications."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 09-11-2010, 04:03 AM
piscesnurse's Avatar
piscesnurse piscesnurse is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: beantown
Posts: 275
Send a message via Yahoo to piscesnurse
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

sure if u want i am open to anything input but i am quite happy
__________________
love is like an electric blanket with someone else in control of the switch

Men Traveling A Narrow Path, Seeking Illumination
10 DEGREES PISCES SABIAN
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 09-11-2010, 04:04 AM
piscesnurse's Avatar
piscesnurse piscesnurse is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: beantown
Posts: 275
Send a message via Yahoo to piscesnurse
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

thanks so much!!!!! byjove
and thanks bob for ur input as well
__________________
love is like an electric blanket with someone else in control of the switch

Men Traveling A Narrow Path, Seeking Illumination
10 DEGREES PISCES SABIAN
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 09-11-2010, 04:30 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: los angeles california
Posts: 12,415
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

Well, a couple of things (from the way I look at delineation)
-Mercury WHERE in Pisces?
-because (in my belief system) the generic ramifications of a planet in a sign are further modified/refined by:
...the influence of the decanate (or face) of the sign the planet is in; and then even further influenced by the duodenary (sign 1/12th) the planet is in
...and then: is "Mercury in Pisces" (as modified by the decan/face and as further modified by the duodenary placement) conjunct or parallel a fixed star? This would further influence the ramifications of "Mercury in Pisces"
...and then I would ask: is "Mercury in Pisces" (and in X decan/face and in X duodenary) in a critical, pitted or elevated degree? Because if it is in either a critical or elevated degree (in the tradition I follow) then any of the negative influences of Mercury (in that sign, decan/face, duodenary) would be impeded (largely blocked) and any of its positive qualities emphasized; if instead Mercury is in a pitted degree, then all the + and - "meanings" of Mercury's condition in the sign (decan/face-duodenary) are reduced to a minimum and the mercurial influence in that chart would be rendered almost neutral (!) ....
Anyhow that is the way I delineate such things; certainly this is not the generally accepted way-even in traditionalist astrology-but, for me at least, this approach gives insights which are not readily discoverable by other approaches, and which, in my experience, have proven to be of much value.

Last edited by dr. farr; 09-11-2010 at 04:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 09-11-2010, 04:49 AM
Kannon's Avatar
Kannon Kannon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,080
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

Some older and non-humanist interpretations of planets in the sign of their detriment seem to simply express how the planet is badly expressed, thus leading to the problems you point to, ByJove. The assumption seems to be that 'detriment' should automatically = 'bad.'

I look at the planets in detriment as planets operating in the signs of their least natural expression (as opposed to dignity being positions of most natural expression). This doesn't mean good vs. bad. For example, I was born when Moon was in detriment in Capricorn. I definitely experienced some of the worst that had to offer. I tired of it and it is no longer relevant to how I choose to live my life. Through my experience, what I came to understand is that with Moon in Capricorn (assuming no planetary aspects altering this...) the person often operates emotionally as if in left-brain mode - reversed from what is most natural, which is to go with the flow of how feeling is experienced. Instead Capricorn-Mooners attempt to order things, time things in ways that would normally be given to mathematical or purely intellectual operations. At the very least they seem to need a structure in which to safely express feeling so that there is a definite predictability or expectation involved. Spontaneity of feeling and expression is uncomfortable for them and probably inappropriate for their balance - at least until it is no longer livable for them.

So to you I'd say, come to your own understanding of how Mercurical faculties express themselves in a way that is appropriate for who you are. I know that Mercury in Pisces is much more open-ended, possibility and dream-oriented than is typical for Mercury in Virgo or Gemini, where it is focused on either practical matters of order and detailed analysis (virgo-clarity) or is focused on relaying information in a communication-relational manner (gem-messenger).

Maybe Mercury in Pisces could be expressed as left brain logical or rational faculties operating as if in the right-brain creative mode in which dictionary definitions need not apply.

Peace.
__________________
Kannon McAfee - The declinations guy
Expert birth chart rectification
Rising sign descriptions

Last edited by Kannon; 09-11-2010 at 04:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Kannon For This Useful Post:
Flapjacks (02-02-2016)
  #9  
Unread 09-11-2010, 07:55 AM
milkywaygirl milkywaygirl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 463
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

I have mercury in pisces in the 4th, i have very emotionally coloured thinking, i often have to stop myself from assigning a bigger meaning to a simple thing like a phrase spoken on tv, or the colour of the girls hair in line in front of me, etc. for me, nothing is ever cut and dry. every thing that i see and that happens has a bigger meaning.

some people might call me apathetic, but i just dont really care about a lot of the things that other people care about - politics, humanitarianism, sports, whatever. i figure that someone else will care about them, so i dont have to. its not that i dont "care", but i just know that its not for me.

when i speak to people, i speak in a weird kind of code i guess, i never really say what i actually mean. i will say something seemingly unrelated or completely opposite to what i think, but in a way that an intuitive person would know what i meant.

im highly intuitive when it comes to body language and the general vibes a person puts out. this can be problematic because often what someone says is not what they mean and their body betrays them, but then sometimes their mind doesnt even know what their body/self actually wants. so its like having a real knowledge of other people and their true selves.

i think a lot about piscean things - high romance, spiritual thoughts, and i dream just about every night, in vivid detail. i can smell and hear in my dreams. my dreams are highly symbolic and have become progressively easier to interpret and then utilize the info in my waking life. its a really great thing. i sometimes have problems though, trying to discern whether i dreamt something, or whether it actually happened.

the way that i collect and process information is completely haphazard, i read books in no particular order, i "try on" others opinions about a topic until i've tried many, and then still dont really pick a definitive point of view for myself. i think one thing one day, and the next day it could completely change, and i wouldnt really feel one way or another about that. when i do data entry, i have to force myself to start at the first column and go down sequencially, as i wouuld much rather start at the bottom and work halfway then skip to another area and enter some etc etc.

as i have mercury in the 4th, i have a lot of books at home. i enjoy spending an evening randomly picking and opening books and reading whatever i open to, and then wondering about whether there is a bigger meaning in that particular passage.

i will totally avoid the reality of certain situations/people and can really fool myself for long periods of time. and then one day it will just click in me and thats that.

i daydream all the time and have had to start consciously not letting myself daydream so much. i could lie down and daydream for hours, i can make up the most intense scenes in my head, with smells and sounds and colour and everything. i can also daydream music, and actually hear the music however i heard it in the past. i have some crazy concentration skills - i recently starting doing yoga again, and i can stay in balancing asanas for a really long time - i just stare at my own eyes in the mirror and kind of hypnotize myself.

i have no idea how to properly use a comma, and use it incorrectly, but thats just the way that i punctuate!

sometimes i wish i thought more logically and saw things more clearly, but then i would really miss the depth, mystery, intensity and emotion of my world.

Last edited by milkywaygirl; 09-11-2010 at 08:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to milkywaygirl For This Useful Post:
CosmicBlyss (01-20-2013), david starling (02-02-2016)
  #10  
Unread 09-11-2010, 08:07 AM
KayBug KayBug is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southeastern NC
Posts: 362
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

I have my Sun and Mercury both in Pisces. Mercury in the 3rd and Sun in the 4th house.
__________________
After 60 years, I have come to accept the fact, I still don't know what I'm doing or why I'm here......Kaybug
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Unread 09-11-2010, 01:08 PM
ImNotThere9's Avatar
ImNotThere9 ImNotThere9 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 631
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

-------------------
__________________
Astra inclinant, sed non obligant - Latin proverb.


'...Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.' Shakespeare.

Last edited by ImNotThere9; 02-24-2011 at 12:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Unread 09-11-2010, 01:46 PM
byjove's Avatar
byjove byjove is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,009
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
Uh, okay, but you're looking at modern interpretations, not Ancient interpretations. If you want I'd be happy to take a look at your Mercury from an Ancient perspective.
Yes that's true, and in time I'll delve deeper. By any chance, would you start with natives of Mer. in Pis. to consider the traditional Jupiter rulership? Either way, yes, it would be refreshing to investigate the roots, since, from what I can see the modern interpretations on this placement are near-blanket negative.

(quickly tries to hide the evidence of Virgo traits in chart...) It would be great to explore a deeper analysis; if I find another modern cook-book that says these natives are deluded creatures lacking in intelligence, I'll shoot something.

I'd sent this by PM but you can't attach, and it would probably be better to dissect here to add to the value of the thread; I find it very useful to understand my own chart better when observing the analysis of other's.

Last edited by byjove; 01-21-2012 at 02:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Unread 09-11-2010, 03:28 PM
BobZemco's Avatar
BobZemco BobZemco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: On a web-site far, far away...
Posts: 2,137
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
I'd sent this by PM but you can't attach
I know, I rather dislike that. It would be better if one could attach things. Anyway it'll take me a few hours, uh, astrological hours, and if we use our handy "Planetary Table of Estimated Interpretation Time in Years, Months, Days and Hours" it'll probably be a day (or two).
__________________
Addressing his pupil, Satyacharya said, "The science of Astrology is a great secret. It should be guarded with care. This sacred science of Astrology should never be taught to bad people. Nor should it be revealed to too many people and very frequently. It should be taught only to a few chosen disciples who really deserve and have the necessary qualifications."
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 09-11-2010, 05:27 PM
julia's Avatar
julia julia is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 185
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

My mercury (retr.) is at my pisces/12th house, ,,.
I must say that since I was a kid I have dreams that come true, I have a strong intuition and I can contact with others through a special way. I am able to understand what they have at their soul, what problems they have etc. There are rare cases when I can not understand them....When I discuss with other persons I catch myself travelling to other worlds, at fairtale landscapes...I wish I had a talent to draw these landscapes but I cannot...I think that this happens because I have a high energy inside me and this helps me to have a relief. It is believed that predicting the future through dreams or intuition is a gift. NO, it is not! And I am sure about this....I never said to any of my friends what they should choose or what they have to do. But I always help them to find their solutions to their problems. Free will is irreplaceable.
__________________
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it".Paulo Coelho

Last edited by julia; 09-11-2010 at 06:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to julia For This Useful Post:
david starling (02-02-2016)
  #15  
Unread 09-11-2010, 05:57 PM
sigma sigma is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

i have in the 7th , when i look at someone, it's like i can read perfectly their mind and control over the way they think that's why often people can't look in my eyes just because they are afraid to be read, i have done this before and now i don't do this anymore, i try to look at people with some distance in order that people don't feel trapped by my eyes, it's a form of respect.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sigma For This Useful Post:
david starling (02-02-2016)
  #16  
Unread 09-11-2010, 06:37 PM
julia's Avatar
julia julia is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 185
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigma View Post
i have in the 7th , when i look at someone, it's like i can read perfectly their mind and control over the way they think that's why often people can't look in my eyes just because they are afraid to be read, i have done this before and now i don't do this anymore, i try to look at people with some distance in order that people don't feel trapped by my eyes, it's a form of respect.

I think that eyes are the mirror of someone's soul. This is true. You can see many things at someone's eyes...If you can "read" their eyes, you should not be afraid about this. It is something that you were born with it.
__________________
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it".Paulo Coelho
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 09-12-2010, 07:20 PM
byjove's Avatar
byjove byjove is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,009
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
I know, I rather dislike that. It would be better if one could attach things. Anyway it'll take me a few hours, uh, astrological hours, and if we use our handy "Planetary Table of Estimated Interpretation Time in Years, Months, Days and Hours" it'll probably be a day (or two).
Thanks Bob. I've no idea how to view that placement from a traditional perspective. But I'm sure it'll add to the thread since Merc. in Pisc. natives are coming out of the woodwork in here now!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Unread 10-08-2010, 11:40 PM
BobZemco's Avatar
BobZemco BobZemco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: On a web-site far, far away...
Posts: 2,137
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

I have searched everywhere I know, and the only thing I can find is a comment by Lily who says this:

Quote:
Mercury in watry Signes usually without the aspect of one of the Fortunes, shewes an Ideot
In looking at Mercury, it is Peregrine and in Detriment in Pisces, but it is also in the 10th House and Peregrine Moon is applying by opposition. Mercury receives Moon by Exaltation.

Since Virgo is a Commanding Sign holding Moon and Pisces is an Obeying Sign holding Mercury, you might let your emotions over-rule your intellect at times.

Your Part of Reason and Intellect is at 21 Taurus in the 11th House and disposited by Venus in the 9th House in Pisces. It's significators are Mercury and Mars, and we see Mars unaspected in the 11th House and disposited by Mercury, who is disposited by Jupiter in Aries in the 10th House (and disposited by Mars so we have a dispositor loop).

Mercury is also Void of Course. In assessing your intellect (or manners) it must be done in tandem with the Jupiter, who is the Almuten of the Chart (a rank superior than Moon who is merely the Ascendant Ruler) and everyone says that (even Lily way before he gets to the part about Mercury in Pisces is an idiot -- and that assumes Mercury is also the Chart Ruler and/or the Chart Almuten).

We've already seen where Jupiter disposits both Mercury and Venus (who disposits the Part of Reason and Intellect) and rules both the 9th and 10th Houses. I shouldn't have to explain that, as anyone can read your posts and see what would take me a few paragraphs to explain.

Anyway, I don't think we need to rethink Mercury in Pisces, I think we need to follow the rules for proper delineation of one's intellect.
__________________
Addressing his pupil, Satyacharya said, "The science of Astrology is a great secret. It should be guarded with care. This sacred science of Astrology should never be taught to bad people. Nor should it be revealed to too many people and very frequently. It should be taught only to a few chosen disciples who really deserve and have the necessary qualifications."
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 10-09-2010, 11:25 AM
byjove's Avatar
byjove byjove is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,009
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

Yikes! An idiot! Save for the few circumstances which temper the effect such as contact with the benefics, (which are not present) I'm surprised that one-twelfth of us could referred to as so...not good or bad, just different? More or less able to conduct business...

As for orbs, the Moon applying to oppose Mercury at 8+ degrees is counted but the Mars sextiles (5+ degrees) don't? (Throws modern books out)

I still recommend those inundated with hyper-negative interpretations of Mercury to refer to :

http://www.mindfire.ca/The%20Planets...n%20Pisces.htm

"Mercury is also in its fall in this sign, showing that ultimately criticism and analysis must be dissolved in compassion, thereby making love rather than intellect the guiding principle of life." www.mindire.ca

---Asks Hermione Granger to take a back seat---


So Jupiter is the Almuten? I can't believe it, even following Ptolemy's table as just one source, Jupiter did not come out on top. And to think he could trump the Sun in exaltation and hayz? Alright then, Jove.

Last edited by byjove; 10-09-2010 at 11:28 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Unread 10-09-2010, 07:23 PM
BobZemco's Avatar
BobZemco BobZemco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: On a web-site far, far away...
Posts: 2,137
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
As for orbs, the Moon applying to oppose Mercury at 8+ degrees is counted but the Mars sextiles (5+ degrees) don't? (Throws modern books out)
Sure it does. Mars is in an applying sextile to Jupiter and receives Jupiter by Rulership (plus Mars is in the Face of Jupiter).

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
I still recommend those inundated with hyper-negative interpretations of Mercury to refer to :

"Mercury is also in its fall in this sign, showing that ultimately criticism and analysis must be dissolved in compassion, thereby making love rather than intellect the guiding principle of life."
That might apply to you since Pisces is on the Cusp of the 9th House, but if Pisces was on the Cusp of the 12th House, that interpretation goes right out the window.

Quote:
Originally Posted by byjove View Post
So Jupiter is the Almuten? I can't believe it, even following Ptolemy's table as just one source, Jupiter did not come out on top. And to think he could trump the Sun in exaltation and hayz? Alright then, Jove.
Jupiter is also in Hayz. I use ibn Ezra. Jupiter has the greatest dignity in the Ascendant, Part of Fortune, Sun, Moon and prenatal Moon and is in the 10th House. The only thing that would make Jupiter stronger is being the Hour/Day Ruler.
__________________
Addressing his pupil, Satyacharya said, "The science of Astrology is a great secret. It should be guarded with care. This sacred science of Astrology should never be taught to bad people. Nor should it be revealed to too many people and very frequently. It should be taught only to a few chosen disciples who really deserve and have the necessary qualifications."
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Unread 10-09-2010, 10:01 PM
Yennefer's Avatar
Yennefer Yennefer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 211
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

Hi all,

I posted this on the thread on Mercury in water but think Id repost it here.

---
This is an informative article (transcripted lecture) by Jeff Green who is focusing on evolutionary astrology. This one is about two types of thinking (left and right brain, deductive, inductive, Mercury vs Jupiter).

The link is: http://schoolofevolutionaryastrology...-consciousness

I have Mercury in Pisces in 3rd house and this what Jeff Green says about it (and I find it very accurate):

Quote:
What if you have Mercury in Pisces ? Let us put it in the third house, the natural Gemini house. If you have Mercury in its natural archetype, i.e., the third house which is linear, sequential, deductive thinking and yet the very essence of Pisces is the antithesis of this archetype, is there not a natural internal conflict within this person's mental process ? Is it not logically seen in this way ? Is not the Mercury in Pisces of itself going to naturally think in metaphorical terms or parables or analogy -- poetic ? Our fellow friend Jesus Of Nazareth had six planets in Pisces in the third house. How did we experience his communication? Still trying to figure it out, eh? Pisces !!!

...It is one of the very reasons that Christians have been confused - Pisces - ever since. It becomes the breeding ground of sectarian points of view. This is the problem with Mercury in Pisces, that the Mercury part of this individual can sense, perceive, much large wholes, much larger frames of reference than the Mercury function itself can logically order. As a result, it must speak in metaphor, parable, allusion; to allude to a something much larger, higher, and grander. This is of course problematic for many people who find themselves in modern societies. How many current modern societies in the West honor such an intellectual function ? What happens to such a person when they are exposed to public education in modern American, Canada, Europe, or European type societies? So typically this particular symbol learns - Mercury - to adopt - mutable archetype - the language systems of the culture that it is exposed to. Therein lies the origin of the conflict.
__________________
AS ABOVE, SO BELOW


http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...pictureid=6608
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Yennefer For This Useful Post:
CosmicBlyss (01-20-2013)
  #22  
Unread 10-29-2010, 10:16 AM
Claire19's Avatar
Claire19 Claire19 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,025
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

Mercury deals with our perception, thinking processes, learning and cognitive abilities, our sense of hearing in particular. It does not relate to love and other subjects unless connected to Venus for instance. Depending on where in the chart it is posited.

In Pisces if well aspected can give a great imagination, thinks a lot about spirituality and transcendence and can lend a sympathetic ear to those in trouble. Actually a lively imagination regardless but logic can be overcome by fantasy and wishful thinking.

If challenged it can be delusional, paranoid, has criminal thoughts and can lie and deceive with words. Sensitivity to sounds and likes to be introspective, communicate and learns about those less privileged and like to spend time dreaming and being alone is a general analysis. Can be vague and confused with speech and get lost when travelling. Many scenarios.


.
__________________
The stars impel, not compel.

Last edited by Claire19; 02-20-2012 at 05:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Claire19 For This Useful Post:
david starling (09-30-2015)
  #23  
Unread 10-29-2010, 11:23 AM
Caro's Avatar
Caro Caro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: By the sea
Posts: 1,732
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

I have pisces conjunct moon in pisces at about 9 degrees. its in the 4th but with equal house it would on the cusp of the 5th. I say the last part cos I love theatre so much.( I have also got venus /chiron and saturn in pisces - yehhhh!)
I have and always have had a very vivid imagination. Im very sensitive and highly intuitive - I often say stuff without realising (but am becoming aware of that now) how I pick up things in this way and realise Im spot on with the person Im talking too. I too have written poetry - ahhh!
To be honest its not my favourite placing in my chart. It is hard to discipline it but Im doing spiritual stuff now meditation etc and that helps a lot. my dreams are very creative and vivid as is meditation and im much better at expressing myself than I used to be.
It is hard sometimes for me to be direct - I dont have a good mars either. so I would not say Im the best communicator. Although again Im trying to work with this.
I think I went through a period in my 20's where my thinking was muddled and I would say confused. Its a defuse energy mercury in pisces
As others have said it is very useful in the caring professions or in a caring role. Also in spiritual stuff, I can understand many readings /literature but more difficult then to get this information across to someone. It is like I just know/sense/get a feeling that something is right.
I realise I have come under attack by those with negative motives and have to work hard to protect myself in this area.
I think it is a vulnerable particularly again as others have pointed out in our logical scientific society. However the science is catching up.
Was Albert Einstein a mercury in pisces I know he was a late pisces sun?.
I think it works quite well in interpretting astrology though as a plus point.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg astro_25gw_01_aura_bee_201063.61287.28337.jpg (53.3 KB, 6 views)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Unread 10-31-2010, 02:57 PM
Archer7 Archer7 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 50
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

Was Albert Einstein a mercury in pisces I know he was a late pisces sun?.

No, he had Mercury in Aries. But Charles Darwin, who wrote 'The Origin of Species' had Mercury in Pisces, and so did Abraham Lincoln.

I've worked with about three charts that have Mercury in Pisces. One is an editor, publisher and published Poet, (Moon in Capricorn too), one creates unique didgeridoos and explores the connection between vibration in sound and the body's healing capacities and one I have yet to get to know.

The scientist Richard Dawkins, famous for his book 'The God Delusion' also has Mercury in Pisces.


Last edited by Archer7; 10-31-2010 at 03:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Unread 11-01-2010, 10:53 AM
Caro's Avatar
Caro Caro is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: By the sea
Posts: 1,732
Re: Rethinking Mercury in Pisces..

I was going to say (dont want to sound like Im blowing my own trumpet) but I was very good at maths at school and took maths exam a year early and went on to do advanced maths. I had a great teacher (always helps very disciplined) She really understood the way I approach maths which is in quite a creative way!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mercury, pisces, rethinking

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Of the Magistery, Exercitation or Profession of the Native eternalautumn Vocational Astrology 12 06-18-2013 11:09 PM
problem with Mercury in Pisces reallypisces Astrology and Psychology 32 12-18-2011 03:49 PM
RESEARCH - A Simple Mercury Retrograde Study Frank Hot topic arena 25 03-06-2010 06:04 AM
The Barbara Hand Clow New Moon Report Arian Maverick Spiritual Astrology 15 06-16-2009 05:52 PM
Trying to understand Mercury retrogrades L.C. Mundane Astrology 16 07-08-2007 02:00 AM



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2014, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.