South Node

[Serendipity]

I normally don't pay attention to the nodes unless they're conjunct a planet or angle. I remember one time reading that the north node is associated with increase where the south is associated with decrease. I've also read that it's similar to being conjunct a malefic (s.node) and benefic (n.node)
A friend of mine asked a question about her relationship (does he want me to break up with him). In the chart the moon in cancer is exactly conjunct the south node. I'm not really sure how to interpret this. Does this impair the moon from performing?

[dr. farr]

From my point of view (Dragon' Tail Farr, one of my nicknames) connection of any planet with the SN, is very inauspcious; you might have seen posts of mine here on AW (in the Horary section) where the SN being in the ascending sign made me regard the horary as totally unreliable (a concept I got from Gerard of Cremona and H.C. Agrippa), the question needing to be asked again at a later time; the Ankara tradition regarded SN in the ascending sign of a horary question to automatically give it a "no" answer, regardless of any and all other testimonies found in that horary chart; in simple Lunar divination ("divining by the Moon") if the Moon is approaching to conjunct or actually is conjunct the SN this is considered powerful negative (inauspicious) testimony. I follow Greco/Roman and medieval (and Vedic) astrological outlooks regarding the disruptive-fly in the ointment-chaotic nature of the Dragon's Tail; while rejecting the traditionalist concept of "natural malefics", and instead adopting a more "modernist" conditional-benefic/conditional-malefic outlook regarding planets, I nevertheless believe that the SN is always a disruptive/malefic influence under any and all conditions and circumstances, and that any connection of any planet or cusp or Part with the SN, brings into play a chaotic (at best) or, more often, a highly malefic influence...

[Serendipity]

Dragon tail farr, I like that.
Hmm, well, the south node is not in the querent's house. So you'd consider this chart as readable. In the context of the question does he want me to break up with him, I am not sure how to look at the moon conjunct s.n. Obviously things are not going well in my friend's relationship if she's asking this question. Moon is in domicile in Cancer and in the 4th. Aside from conjunction with the south node it's a strong moon. I'm not sure if I can look at it as being weakened and the aspects it makes would not bring anything about or the aspects it makes would bring chaotic conditions

[Gsoler]

His feelings toward you may be found in receptions. He is the planet ruling the 7th and the Sun, your heart is Venus and your person is the ruler of the 1st. Find how they relate to one another thru receptions and you will find you answer there. No need to look at the South Node at all for that answer. It is just telling you that there is something relatively ''not nice' situation between you two going on right now, probably a reflection of what you perceive, but dont take it as an outcome.

Originally Posted by Serendipity

Dragon tail farr, I like that.
Hmm, well, the south node is not in the querent's house. So you'd consider this chart as readable. In the context of the question does he want me to break up with him, I am not sure how to look at the moon conjunct s.n. Obviously things are not going well in my friend's relationship if she's asking this question. Moon is in domicile in Cancer and in the 4th. Aside from conjunction with the south node it's a strong moon. I'm not sure if I can look at it as being weakened and the aspects it makes would not bring anything about or the aspects it makes would bring chaotic conditions

[dr. farr]

Originally Posted by Serendipity

Dragon tail farr, I like that.
Hmm, well, the south node is not in the querent's house. So you'd consider this chart as readable. In the context of the question does he want me to break up with him, I am not sure how to look at the moon conjunct s.n. Obviously things are not going well in my friend's relationship if she's asking this question. Moon is in domicile in Cancer and in the 4th. Aside from conjunction with the south node it's a strong moon. I'm not sure if I can look at it as being weakened and the aspects it makes would not bring anything about or the aspects it makes would bring chaotic conditions

From the tradition (and personal beliefs and experiences) which I follow, Moon conjunct SN would render the Moon completely unreliable for any and all delineative purposes-it would exclude consideration of the Moon, its aspects, its directions, and all other typical horary uses of the Moon, from this chart.

[Gsoler]

Dr Farr.. I have yet to see ONE chart where this happens and it made it unreadable. It means what it means, but no condition makes charts unreadable, the SN or anything else.

Originally Posted by dr. farr

From the tradition (and personal beliefs and experiences) which I follow, Moon conjunct SN would render the Moon completely unreliable for any and all delineative purposes-it would exclude consideration of the Moon, its aspects, its directions, and all other typical horary uses of the Moon, from this chart.

[dr. farr]

Originally Posted by Gsoler

Dr Farr.. I have yet to see ONE chart where this happens and it made it unreadable. It means what it means, but no condition makes charts unreadable, the SN or anything else.

I agree- no chart is unreadable, but charts can be rendered unreliable; I have seen many charts where what I have described above has proven accurate in outcomes; you have not seen this: simply, we have a difference in our experiences...


(Note: this situation regarding the Moon and the South Node is one of several conditions the ancients referred to as "the corruption of the Moon"; other "corruptions" included Moon in combustion, Moon under the sunbeams, and Moon in the Fiery Road; these conditions of the Moon were recognzied as largely cancelling the reliability of the Moon for initiative/inceptional chart delineations by the Greeks and Persians {long before interrogational, ie "horary", was developed in the West} and by the later "Arabs", in their development of {Western} horary, the Moon being in any of the above-mentioned "corrupt" states was regarded as significantly affecting the reliability of the horary divination)

PS: the above is only my insight and opinion based upon my own studies and experiences; I am not trying to claim it is "true", and I am not advocating this outlook or attempting to convince anyone about anything; from what I've read here on AW, gsoler is an expert, advanced horary practitioner of traditional/standard horary methods: I have respect for gsoler's insights and experiences. Simply put, the horary model I follow is different, and so my experiences might well be different too.

[Serendipity]

His feelings toward you may be found in receptions. He is the planet ruling the 7th and the Sun, your heart is Venus and your person is the ruler of the 1st. Find how they relate to one another thru receptions and you will find you answer there. No need to look at the South Node at all for that answer. It is just telling you that there is something relatively ''not nice' situation between you two going on right now, probably a reflection of what you perceive, but dont take it as an outcome.

It's my friend's chart,not mine. And I've already delineated the receptions. But I was wondering how the south node would be affecting the moon's aspects.

From the tradition (and personal beliefs and experiences) which I follow, Moon conjunct SN would render the Moon completely unreliable for any and all delineative purposes-it would exclude consideration of the Moon, its aspects, its directions, and all other typical horary uses of the Moon, from this chart.

dr. farr so it's kind of up in the air. We're really not sure exactly how this affects the performance of the moon. I'm going watch how this plays out over the next few weeks or months and post the outcome. We can see if the moon functioned normally or if everything went to hell in a hand basket so to speak.

[JerryRR]

...the Moon's South Node is malefic like Mars and Saturn,Jones said the South Node is a 'definite impediment in horary art,principally showing the promise or consequence of self-undoing,indiscretion and lack of common sense.'

Page 203 Horary Astrology,by A.Louis.

J.

[Konrad]

I'd just like to say that I've seen the North Node conjunct the quesited's significator being the only good indication in a chart full of negative indications and the thing asked about came to pass without any trouble. I think I posted the chart on here, I can look it up if anyone wants to see it?

Going from that experience, I'd say the South Node has the opposite effect and would therefore show the situation being a little too much for the querent to perfect.
________
ZX14 VS HAYABUSA

[Nexus7]

Not sure, but from what I have understood of the Vedic perspective, if you must have the Moon on a node, then it may be better to have it on the South Node. The North Node wants to plunge into new experience and may 'pull the carpet underthe feet' from the Moon's need for tranquillity. Both Nodes may 'eclipse' either luminary with compulsions that may be difficult to understand.

In Western Astrology, the theory is that the South Node represents a 'comfort zone' that can always become a hamster trap in which true fulfilment will be denied, where there is no effort taken to take in new input and life experiences via the North Node. Home, hearth, family attachments may be all very well, but here the native may need to learn to become more self-sufficient and fly the nest at some point, or begin to experience all this smothering closeness as a dead end, no mater how fearful the native may be at venuring forth into a colder and less forgiving world of worldly achievement.

In the Vedic view, it is through the North Node where desires should be fulfilled, but the South Node, or Ketu, is where detachment from these, not fulfilment, may be experienced. Because of this tendency to engender detachment from desires (something that may often be fought, causing a lot o fsuffering, according to this view), the South Node has been called 'one of the most spiritual points in the chart.' Ketu is also linked to fears and phobias.

But whether you take a Western or a Vedic view of the Nodes, there do seem to be some core themes that seem to remain constant: the route to emotional fulfilment may not always be where the native may think this ought to lie, although there may be a lot of fear involved in letting go of certain things. It is only through becoming more self-sufficient that the powerful resources this Moon SNode may possess might really be experienced as true assets.

I remember being aked to read the chart for a child who had a Moon conjunct SNode also and I felt embarrassed to do so, because all the interpretations for it seemd so negative, and one written interpretation she received implied her daughter might never manage to fully individuate. This did really did worry her, understandably. Well, she seemed to grow up to become a normal enough kid. However, she did leave home at the age of 16 to pursue a very alternative lifestyle, then also had her own kids quite early in life. So maybe the South Node pushed her into seeking to mature emotionally early, so that she could take on the lunar role of mothering on her own terms a little more. But I could be wrong.

[poyi]

My life and the positive part of the personality development started only after I left my homeland, Hong Kong to a foreign land, Australia.

My SN/Ketu conjunct my IC and Jupiter, Jupiter conjunct Uranus, also ruling Neptune in the same cusp, Sagittarius, 4th house and 7th house Pisces.

Thinking about religion, philosophy, spiritualism, occults, meaning of life all these are my hobbies that I do at home and in my private time 4th house. The first time when I asked myself the meaning of life, I was 6 or 7 years old. The first time that I came across spiritual or paranormal activities, I was an infant then again at about 16 to just 1 month before 18 years old birthday. Rahu was transit 12th house, made a few interesting aspects...

Anything that relates to Uranus, Jupiter seem relatively easy for me to understand and these are my interests anyway. Uranus conjunct Jupiter is the only major aspect of Uranus though.

[Aquarius358]

Originally Posted by Serendipity

I normally don't pay attention to the nodes unless they're conjunct a planet or angle. I remember one time reading that the north node is associated with increase where the south is associated with decrease.
Yes, the translations of the medieval astrologers like Abu Ma'shar, al-Qabisi etc put it that way - in its simplest form that's what it means. You're right.
I've also read that it's similar to being conjunct a malefic (s.node) and benefic (n.node)

Again, you're right.

A friend of mine asked a question about her relationship (does he want me to break up with him). In the chart the moon in cancer is exactly conjunct the south node. I'm not really sure how to interpret this. Does this impair the moon from performing?

I wouldn't say it stops the Moon .. just that things surrounding this question are negative. It's relative, of course, to the circumstances that surrounded the question at the time of asking ... if for instance he'd been treating her badly (or vice versa) & the Moon was in the same degree as the south node then it's quite likely such a negative/unhappy situation would continue.

The Moon can also signify what the querent is feeling - and so if she's asking 'does he want me to break up with him?' well, I'd say that's a pretty negative take on their relationship and shows how worried she is - which is obvious from her question too. But it's not the Moon applying by 1-3 degrees TO the South Node - which I'd interpret differently : viz, she's approaching this negative situation.

I'd also weigh it up against what 1 and 7 rulers are doing by way of aspects and, of course, reception between them. If there were positives - eg a good aspect and good, strong reception by Sign or Exaltation plus Triplicity, then the South Node could be signifying her negative feelings/thinking.