Why am I blunt & rude when angry?

[melisa]

Hi---
I am trying to see why I get blunt, rude and nasty many times when I feel angry. Especially when I am wrongly criticized, or someone is not reliable. I am surprised, since I have Mercury square Neptune. I also have Neptune and Moon in the 3rd house (communications), and Libra is the cusp of the 3rd (which is normally a diplomatic, tactful sign). Those aspects don't indicate a blunt or rude communication style.
Maybe other aspects are blocking my potential to stay polite when triggered. Could my Moon square Uranus, or Mars opposse Moon (Moon in 3rd house of communication) cause blunt communication? The only other aspect is mercury inconjunct Chiron.
This only happens when I feel angry. I am also upset over wondering what aspects or planetary placements could help me overcome this.....maybe Venus conjunct the Sun?

Thank you

Melisa

[melisa]

Hi---
Here is my chart attached

Thank you
Melisa

[asteroid]

Well Melisa look carefully what is goig on!!

Your 1st house gusp is in leo and conatains virgo as well. Leo is very proud as we all know and virgo dislikes criticism. Moreover Pluto in 1st makes you to explode each time someone tries to dispute you. Pluto is a domineering planet and wants to control everything.

You may have Moon in 3rd (comunication) But your moon in scorpio is extremely moody and introvert plus it gets hurted easily and deeply. Also mars from the opposite house hits your moon and your comunication abilties too. You take too personally the words of others.

Mercury in 12th cannot speakout so finding difficult to defend yourself you become aggressive.

Mercury in Leo generally is more assertive

Saturn from the 5th opposes your social sun in 11th deteriorating your confidence.

[dr. farr]

I much agree with Asteroid's post regarding the OP's stated problems, although my reasoning would be a little different than Asteroid's (because of my different approach to astrological delineations), but the net result fully agrees with Asteroid's conclusions; since I use whole sign, the sudden and rebellious Uranus is also posited there in the 1st house in the fiery Leo, adding to what Asteroid mentions regarding 1st house influences; also the ascendant degree is in the Manilius decan of Virgo, underscoring Asteroids pertinent comments regarding Virgo influences upon the ascendant.
Moon in its fall in Scorpio, and thus disposited by Mars, can make emotional responses (Moon) particularly susceptible to Mars expressions; note also that Mars is the most elevated planet in this chart, almost conjunct the MC; Mars also disposits the ruler of Leo (the Sun) via the Moon (ie, Sun in Cancer disposited by Moon; Moon in Scorpio disposited by-Mars; although Mars in Taurus is disposited by Venus, Venus itself is disposited by Moon and Moon in turn by Mars; since Mars is more elevated in the chart than Venus, and since mutual reception between Venus and Mars does not occur, in my approach Mars defacto disposits Venus)

[astrologer50]

Firstly, for a proper evaluation you should consider posting your chart with progressions and transits on same wheel found in extended chart selection. Reduce the ratio of orbs to 80%, select smallest image size 63% on picture,then choose house system (my personal preference is for Equal house rather than the default of placidus), right mouse click and select 'save target pic as' and save to hard drive then upload here

How to attach a chart as thumbnail
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126

It is easy to attach as thumbnail cos you have already attached a Word doc.

So let's assess your mercury which ONLY has ONE aspect - square to Neptune AND it's retrograde and IN 12th house - not a good place. So in childhood we can assume then that she felt uncomfortable in asking for things and learnt to keep quiet, cos when she did ask she didn't get scenario. It's going backwards, inclines to introspection and overanalysing in one's head --- So my theory is 'FRUSTRATION' makes the communications stressful.

To compound this mercury is square Neptune, as we know this is great for 'intuiting, sensing and feeling' things but also keeps shifting the boundaries with speech patterns. So what they 'think' (in the head)and what they 'say' (out of mouth) can be two different things--

Moon conj Neptune conj IC shows problems relating to mother maybe smother loved or mother emotionally unavailable in childhod. This also can be a psychic influence (again) and oversensitivity in Communicatins as IC is in 3rd house. There has been a thread on hard moon/neptune aspects n medical forum and eating disorders - do you have any problems like this? I personaly think chiron and/or ceres (the nurturing asteriod) may take part to

Also, lack of planets in air element tend to come out with 'sweeping statements' syndrome.

Now sun is opposite Saturn and venus is opp Saturn showing a feeling of being unloved from childhood, prob relating to father, men, authority figures and to add to this Saturn is retrograde suggesting father was missing, lacking or ineffectual in setting boundaries,structures.

I would suggest further research into retrogrades as you have a few --
Retrograde planets
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22923
http://astrology.findyourfate.com/astrology-retrograde.htm
http://www.north-node.com/astrology-tutorials/retrogrades
http://www.north-node.com/astrology-tutorials/retrogrades
http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/retrogradeplanets.htm
http://www.cafeastrology.com/retrogrades.html
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5796&postcount=8
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5861&postcount=10
Pluto retrograde in scorpio above

Mercury Retrograde
* reconsiders before speaking
* lots of inner conversation and thoughts
* expresses self better in writing
* feels misunderstood
Jupiter Retrograde
* has doubts about what they deserve and so ...
* finds it easy to settle for crumbs
* feels superior in some way inside
* abundance is felt on the inside
* looks inside for answers to religious questions
Saturn Retrograde
* feels inside that they're never good enough
* indulgent outward behavior may mask inner feelings of inadequacy
* hides fears

http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/retrogradeplanets.htm#neprx

Also, moon opp mars = bossy mother, moon squ uranus is break with mother, but also broken friendships and a divorce aspect (I have the square to uranus to and can vouch for this) It also adds independence emotionally and detachs from emotions, which her moon is conj neptune so finds it hard to pin them down already...

Have studied your mystic rectangle yet?
Mystic Rectangle also know as Grand Rectangle
http://www.astro.com/mtp/mtpt82_e.htm
http://www.lunarliving.org/astrology/mysticrectangle_wedge.shtml
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html
http://www.therealastrology.com/HTML/FAQS/AspectPatterns.html#Mystic Rectangle
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/aspect-patterns2.html

[Catatonia]

Hi,

My response to injustice is similar to yours in that I become defensive when I'm heavily criticized or wrongly accused of something. I'm not sure what you're definition of blunt and rude is because that's subjective. Either way, I'm looking at this as a defensive mechanism because when you're in that kind of situation, no matter what anyone else tells you, it does feel as if you're in front of the firing squad. If you don't defend yourself, who will?

I doubt there's anything seriously wrong or abnormal with your responses, but it does sound like you may want to change the people you associate with! Whether it be romantic relationships, friends, even family--and especially in working conditions where people use and abuse as they please--it's important to draw boundaries. It looks like your Scorpio Moon conjoined with Neptune needs to learn the concept of boundaries because we should all have them. Boundaries allow us to draw the line between what we feel we will accept and what we simply won't. If you allow others to cross your boundaries you will continue to feel stepped on, marginalized, and dumped.

I have a Scorpio Moon conjoined with Pluto myself. The lesson of boundaries was a very, very important one for me. For a long time I thought I was oversensitive and everyone else was more emotionally stable--and that's just not the case. It truly is human nature to think of oneself as the best, altruism is difficult to come by, and people will generally let bad things happen even when they're staring right at it. Boundaries allow you to become independent from peoples' will and take affirmative action when you've been wronged, and also prevent wrongdoing from happening.

The last thing that I will leave you with is the idea that perhaps our lives have set us up conditionally for feeling emotional pain as the depth to which we feel it. To that I'd like to propose keeping our Mars in check so we don't explode at people and try our best to reform our reflexes, so that we can "pick our battles" better!

Catatonia

[astrologer50]

catatonia,

well spotted mars square uranus - bad temper

[beatnikgirl]

I'm of the Idea that no matter what kind of Natal chart we have that does not totally compel us to behave in a negative way, we have a choice, sometimes transits trigger the more negative traits and it's hard to override these.
I think any interplay within your chart mars saturn mercury usual suspects, can always interact in hard working mentally astute ground breaking pushy person.
I have saturn opp neptune and Moon it makes me prone to depression, yet I have never taken one day of work with depression, I have never had to take medication for the problem and i never allow my dark pessimistic outlook to ever cause problems in my relationship with my partner or my family, two ares it could so easily affect due to my chart position.
Everyone is rude and blunt when angry bottom line the question you should be asking is not your reaction to the anger but why and what is making you angry.
What areas in your life push your buttons, I'm betting that is where you will find squares or oppositions sharply focused in your chart. Look at which house mars saturn and Mercury fall into check the angles they're making and take a look at untangling some of the tension between those areas of your life
It is ok to be angry as long you get over it and let the energy push you forward into taking a stand of making a change in your life.

[melisa]

Hi---
Thankns for the feedback.
Dr. Farr, you are right---I hadn't thought of that fact, that Moon in Scorpio has its original ruler as Mars, making emotions more Mars-like.
Catatonia wrote: "
Everyone is rude and blunt when angry bottom line the question you should be asking is not your reaction to the anger but why and what is making you angry.
What areas in your life push your buttons, I'm betting that is where you will find squares or oppositions sharply focused in your chart. Look at which house mars saturn and Mercury fall into check the angles they're making and take a look at untangling some of the tension between those areas of your life"

What is making me angry? Generally it used to be early family memories, but with outside help, plus analyzing the begative effect my mother had on me (through my chart----Moon opp Mars, Moon conj. 4th house cusp, Moon square Uranus, my Saturn and Venus exactly square Mother's Saturn, etc.) I was able to forgive mother and early family life abuses. So now what makes me mad? Being neglected by a mate, or being argued with/disrespected at work. Those situations then fuel my obsessiveness (I worry too much, repeatedly.....Merc in 12th square Neptune plus Plluto rising could cause that)
Which houses do Mars, Saturn and Merc fall? The 9th (near 10th), 5th, and 12th----so you are right---my work and relationships are affected! You asked what aspects they make----Mars is oppose my Moon and Neptune, so it's trampling on my gentler communication skills and making me feel like blurting outinsults instead. And Saturn is oppose my Venus and Sun---could be related to being blunt, and not "dressin up" my language with tact and diplomatic statements more often.
I don't think I have Mars square Uranus, as there is a 9 degree orb there (I have enough anger issues with mooon square Uranus---a 7 degree orb!).

Thank you
Melisa

[Catatonia]

Melisa, I didn't write that! LOL You have the wrong quote, girl!

Catatonia

[melisa]

Hi---
I am still trying to work out the multi-quote technology here! It was beatnikgirl who asked about what makes me angry. Catanonia wrote:

angry re: "family--and especially in working conditions where people use and abuse as they please"

Yes, that is very accurate! I'm not sure how you knew that work was a vulnerable area for me (6th house is empty, and Capricron is on cusp-----10th is empty with Taurus on cusp, yet Mars is 7 degrees away from cusp). Yes, just as in early family, I am used and abused by clients at work. It takes a lot of assertiveness to speak up to them and set limits, without backing down or being too fearful or passive to do so. Then I obsess afterwards, focusing only on their needs and reactions, and worrying if they will be mad at me.

Asteroid wrote that Mars opposing my Moon in 3rd affects my communication. True---I had thought that the moon and Nept in 3rd would soften my communication----actually when I am not angry I'm pretty tactful. Yet when Mars anger kicks in, I get too blunt, and my tone becomes irritable.
I hope that my Pluto and Saturn trines to Mars (grand trine) can help my anger be expressed ina more positive way.

Thanks for the feedback
Melisa

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by asteroid

Well Melisa look carefully what is goig on!!

Your 1st house gusp is in leo and conatains virgo as well. Leo is very proud as we all know and virgo dislikes criticism. Moreover Pluto in 1st makes you to explode each time someone tries to dispute you. Pluto is a domineering planet and wants to control everything.

You may have Moon in 3rd (comunication) But your moon in scorpio is extremely moody and introvert plus it gets hurted easily and deeply. Also mars from the opposite house hits your moon and your comunication abilties too. You take too personally the words of others.

Mercury in 12th cannot speakout so finding difficult to defend yourself you become aggressive. again look how mercury is aspected, it's square Neptune, I don't see mercury as aggressive, it's more confused and frustrated by stuck in 12th

Mercury in Leo generally is more assertive - are you sure stuck in 12th?

Saturn from the 5th opposes your social sun in 11th deteriorating your confidence.

If you look at how pluto is aspected in a grand trine, I don't see Pluto as explosive at all, cos those energies flow easily

[melisa]

Hi again---
Astrology50 wrote in part:

"inclines to introspection and overanalysing in one's head --- So my theory is 'FRUSTRATION' makes the communications stressful.

To compound this mercury is square Neptune, as we know this is great for 'intuiting, sensing and feeling' things but also keeps shifting the boundaries with speech patterns. So what they 'think' (in the head)and what they 'say' (out of mouth) can be two different things--

Moon conj Neptune conj IC shows problems relating to mother maybe smother loved or mother emotionally unavailable in childhod. This also can be a psychic influence (again) and oversensitivity in Communicatins as IC is in 3rd house. There has been a thread on hard moon/neptune aspects n medical forum and eating disorders - do you have any problems like this? I personaly think chiron and/or ceres (the nurturing asteriod) may take part to

Also, lack of planets in air element tend to come out with 'sweeping statements' syndrome."


Very accurate. I posted, as you advised, my chart with transits. For some reason adding progressions (even at 63% image) was too big. Yes, what's in my head and what I blurt out of my mouth are 2 different things. Sometimes what I blurt out is too blunt, and I don't add in enough words to make it tactful. I also had a compulsive talker for a mother, so I often fear, now. that others will interrupt me after a few words, so I either hold back words, or don't speak up when I am cut off (Merc square Neptune). Then I get mad nad keepit bottled up!
You wrote about moon conj IC and mother unavailable. Yes she was emmotionally unavailable and verbally abusive (which also made me fearful of speaking up---so I held things in and lter exploded). Re: Moon conj Nept and eating disorders---yes, though I am of normal weight I have binge eating disorder. Perhaps Jupiter trine my ascendant adds to this problem. Re: Chiron and Ceres, they are both inconjunct my Mercury---not sure what this means.
You are right---lack of anything in air leads to communicatin issues. I would love to be more verbal, and to feel that I have the right to. I havve also been told that I am not rational or detached (especially as a Cancer with Scorpio moon, nothing is impersonal or rational for me!!!)

Have a nice day

melisa

[astrologer50]

thanks for the feedback, much appreciated

when you go into Extended chart selection and select from the drop down box -
natal and transits, there is an option to select - natal progressions & transits and THIS is the chart that will bring them around the same chart wheel

A simple way to quote from a post is to highlight text and look for the two yellowish boxes, the right hand one, under the 'redo' button creates the box for you....

[R4VEN]

Hi melisa, I'm just adding to this thread with something no-one else seems to have mentioned - although the territory may well have been covered in earlier posts......

astro.com gives you a t-square between Mars-Moon opp, both squaring Uranus. I think if I had that configuration I'd have to have a punching bag a home just so I could work off the energy in a socially appropriate way!!! Technically, there may not actually be a square between Mars and Uranus, but I believe that this configuration has a kind of flow-on effect for you - especially given Uranus is close enough to the Asc to be a rebellious influence for you when you relate to others in the outside world - and you may well feel this as a t-square. This would account for the build-up in energy which probably bursts out of you when you'd rather it didn't. Given that the Moon - and in Scorpio, too!! - is involved in this, then much of your emotion comes from either outrage, or possessiveness/jealousy, or the need to self-protect, or even to make right which you consider has gone wrong!!

This is difficult energy to rein in. You have `given' yourself this planetary arrangement because you have a need to work with this energy, and to use it effectively, rather than having it control you. No easy task.......

[melisa]

Hi---
Thank you R4ven, that is accurate. With Moon oppose Mars I get angry easily, and am sometimes impolite and too quick in my answers. I need to learn to "dress up" any diagreeing statements with more tact. Remembering to validate the other person's view would help too. With the Moon in Scorpio and Sun in Cancer, understanding the other's feelings is easy, but understanding their view (since I have nothing in air) is difficult.
I feel frustrated about this. I would like to use my planets or aspects to be more tacful and polite when angry. I wonder if Moon conjunct Neptune would help? or Mars trine Saturn?

Thanks

Melisa

[flea]

HI...I have mars opp moon.....about 5deg orb. I am not quick to anger.....very seldom do....but when I do it can be quite theatric. So thinking that uranus might well be a trigger. It is more the balance between working and nuturing for me as moon is in cancer.

FleaXX

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by melisa

Hi---
I feel frustrated about this. I would like to use my planets or aspects to be more tacful and polite when angry. I wonder if Moon conjunct Neptune would help? or Mars trine Saturn?

Thanks

Melisa

I checked out your progressed planets, and your Sun has progressed into Virgo, and along with progr Moon and Venus being in Virgo, this will eventually - hopefully - bring some reining-in energy to your interactions.

Just thought I'd mention, also, that prgr Chiron has Rx back into Aquarius, and is conjunct your natal Ceres, so any self-nurturing you engage in is likely to have positive consequences. Endeavouring to create solutions to long-term problems is part of this.

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by melisa

Hi---
Thank you R4ven, that is accurate. With Moon oppose Mars I get angry easily, and am sometimes impolite and too quick in my answers. I need to learn to "dress up" any diagreeing statements with more tact. Remembering to validate the other person's view would help too. With the Moon in Scorpio and Sun in Cancer, understanding the other's feelings is easy, but understanding their view (since I have nothing in air) is difficult.
I feel frustrated about this. I would like to use my planets or aspects to be more tacful and polite when angry. I wonder if Moon conjunct Neptune would help? or Mars trine Saturn?

Thanks

Melisa

You need to look at your secondary progressions to see how you have grown and developed

Your natal chart is like a photograph as unique as your fingerprint, BUT the 10planets in the sky have not stayed where they were in your natal chart, they have all moved. Predictive astrology is mostly maths where those 10planets are now and the mathematical aspects they make to your natal charts ie: 180'=opposition, 90'=square, 60'=sextile and 120'=trine.

So your personality, grows, develops, changes, matures as we get older, this is reflected by your sun sign changing from it's natal position to the next sign along, so does your Asc and MC sign change. In fact from sun to mars especially are important, as the outer planets really don't move much, using a 'day for a year' secondary progressions.

What's the difference between Transits and Progressions?
“Transits are the planets currently orbiting in the sky and the relationships they form to each other and additionally, to your chart. Transits happen for everyone. They're important and effect you personally when they contact a planet or point in your chart. Transits represent outside energy, things happening outside yourself. They describe external events and your responses to them. Progressions, however, move very slowly and are a natural progression of your original birth chart. The events and emotions they describe are part of you, deeply ingrained in your psyche, internal, and psychological. And as they form aspects, these inner feelings start to become more important and central to your life”
http://www.artcharts.com/learn_astrology/progressed.html

If you want to research more into Secondary progressions try here
http://cafeastrology.com/secondaryprogressions.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/progressions.html
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=67
http://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/astroarticles/progressionsinastrology.php
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/progressions.html
http://astrolmass.com/progressions.htm


The most important of progressed planets is of course, sun & moon and then upto mars, as the outer planets hardly move by progression. Now like with transits, solar arcs --- it's what these progressed planets are doing NOW by mathematical aspect to your natal planets and Angles that is ultimately important.

Also I would take this opportunity to mention there is a ‘plethora’ of information in every forum top, called 'stickys' which cover, explain in great depth what each forum is all about, plus we have an Education forum for further research..

[Natasha]

Originally Posted by melisa

Hi---
Maybe other aspects are blocking my potential to stay polite when triggered. Could my Moon square Uranus, or Mars opposse Moon (Moon in 3rd house of communication) cause blunt communication? This only happens when I feel angry. I am also upset over wondering what aspects or planetary placements could help me overcome this.....maybe Venus conjunct the Sun?

Moon Uran Mars configurations can often be very blunt especially when annoyed or upset
My Auntie has a Moon Mars Uranus and this has been her main big obstacle. And it only occurs when she is upset or angry. Its taken her years to work with it and now only occassionally does it erupt - often when transting Mars is making a hard aspect in her chart.
I think its about attending the moon like its our child and getting the Sun to be in charge of stressful times telling the Moon that its OK I can organise this so you are going to be OK
Also the Uranus Mars & Moon can have trouble compromising too. Its quite quick to forget tho and does not hold a long time grudge. But it can refuse to compromise with others.
Compromise seems to sometimes be difficult with this configuration when Libra is involved also. Libra can take the polarity ie Aries and want what she wants. Libra is about polarity I have found. Libra is not really well explained in Astrology. It fears conflict but drives for it to happen to get resolution.

[melisa]

Hi---Thanks for the feedback. Flea wrote:

Originally Posted by flea

HI...I have mars opp moon.....about 5deg orb. I am not quick to anger.....very seldom do....but when I do it can be quite theatric. So thinking that uranus might well be a trigger. It is more the balance between working and nuturing for me as moon is in cancer.


----Yes, I can see how Moon oppose Mars can work both ways. Iinstead of Mars just inciting the Moon's emotions, the Moon can softe Mars' anger. I feelupset though since I also have Mars oppose Neptune. SO I feel angry for illogical reasons, and also the Neptune can overly soften my anger, so I keep it bottled up. Then Moon square Uranus stimulates me to be too blunt when I do express the anger!
FleaXX

R4ven wrote---

Originally Posted by R4VEN

I checked out your progressed planets, and your Sun has progressed into Virgo, and along with progr Moon and Venus being in Virgo, this will eventually - hopefully - bring some reining-in energy to your interactions.

Just thought I'd mention, also, that prgr Chiron has Rx back into Aquarius, and is conjunct your natal Ceres, so any self-nurturing you engage in is likely to have positive consequences. Endeavouring to create solutions to long-term problems is part of this.

----Yes, I feel the healing and awareness of Chiron conjunct my natal Ceres. I also have Chiron 0 Pisces, so currently Chiron is conjunct my natal Chiron. It seems to be responsible for my increased awareness of wounds, problems, and motivation to work on my negative traits.

Natasha wrote about how Moon-Mars-Uranus can also lead to inability to comporomise. THat's soometimes true (especially with my Mars in Taurus). Luckily I have Venus conjunct Sun, and Libra ruling the 3rd house, which helps me compromise.
Astrologer50 wrote a good, clear explanation of the differences between transits and progressions. I noticed recently I had a positive discussion with a partner I'm on a break with---it happened after months, on the day transiting Sun was conjunct our progressed composite!

Have a nice day
Melisa