Natural Capricorn Confusion?

[Earth Sign]

Everything I've ever heard about Capricorn is that it's very traditional, it's a social climber, cold as ice, has to work to feel worth, etc. What do you all think of Capricorn? I'm a Capricorn Sun and the majority of those things don't fit me, I think. I've been told I have a cynical sense of humor, but that's about it. I've heard other Capricorn people say they also don't think Capricorn fits them, one of those people being my mother, who has both Capricorn Sun & Ascendant. Is Capricorn naturally not self-aware? I have a theory about Capricorns, but I'm a little too unsure about it to mention it right now. I'd like to hear about what you think. If this is just an aspect of my own chart, please tell me where it is. This is my chart:



In my own opinion, Capricorn always seemed so much less complex than other signs. It can't be that simple, can it? Anyway, please tell me what you think, I'm keen to find out.

[Vista]

They also have a wicked sense of humor(I should know being a Cappi Sun myself), they have a dry, incisive wit that can be extremely funny and erupt when others least expect it.

[Earth Sign]

Originally Posted by Vista

They also have a wicked sense of humor(I should know being a Cappi Sun myself), they have a dry, incisive wit that can be extremely funny and erupt when others least expect it.

I've been told I have that. Lol

[LittleMiss]

By the look of your chart you have few personal planets in Capricorn.
I would think you feel the energy of Sagittarius, Aquarius, and Virgo as well where your venus, mercury, moon and ascendant is!

[Inside Out Orange]

I think one of the things about Capricorns is that they feel very obvious. They feel like their emotions/feelings are on display to the world and that it's obvious to everybody else.

So they hide them away because they don't want to feel so exposed. From the perspective of everybody else we look and see this blank, non-expressive canvas that hardly cracks a smile.

[Ebenia]

It is very likely that you feel that you don't really understand or interact well with the capricornian energy in you, because your Sun is in the 5th house, which is Leo's house. Probably you have a lot of Leo and Sagittarius features and these energies are very different from capricorn influences. Also, Capricorn and Leo are inconjuct to each other and your Sun being in Leo's house, I believe this could be hard for you to identify.

[JayM]

I dont think capricorn is the simplest of signs. [deleted joke that wasn't intended to insult - Moderator]

It seems suprising that you can't feel your capricorn energies because you have saturn conj sun in cap, but that are in the 5th so mabie you are very serious about what you display or how you display it (of yourself).

I have a cap sun but mine is in the 11th plus if you want grounded my sun trines my taurus moon, but my saturn in scorp wreaks havoc in my chart. Like you I have a merc in saj and an a venus in aqua. Venus in aqua means that you sort of want to be an aquarius but your central energy is capricorn.

As for why you can't feel your capricorn energy I think time will tell because saturn is about time.

[astrologer50]

When a Sun is conjunct any of the outer weight planets it automatically becomes an honorary Saturian, Uranian, Neptunian and Plutonian, cos their influence seems to overshadow the 'light' and sun's energies...

Although it's hard with you putting all those asteriods in there, it seems your sun is conj Neptune, making you identify with the psychic sensitivities and subtlities of dreamy neptune where you own 'sun identity' wants to shine, neptune blurs the boundardies making it difficult.
Then sun is also conj Uranus wider orb suggesting times when you can behave bit like a rebel and want to do things unsual (uranus) that feed the pride and ego of 'sun' and finally sun conj Saturn suggests problems relating to father, men and/or authority figures. We are ALL mutlifaceted human beings and the sum total of all the energies contained within our natal charts. This to me is what makes it an art and science and blending of energies to explain human nature --

Like others have said earlier having a stellium planets in 5th house of Leo suggests you 'taking on' some Leo traits to

Virgo Asc can be quiet and shy and reserved but a 'worrier' moon in scorpio is deeply emotional analytical and private person, who has an emotional need to communicate (3rd house) in a deep and meaningful way (scorpio)

[Modcleopatra]

Hello All,

Being a strong Capricorn type, I feel I must comment. I have a Capricorn Ascendant, plus Neptune (12th house or 1st house, depending on system) in Capricorn conjunct ASC, Mars (1st house) in Capricorn conjunct ASC, and Moon (1st house) in Capricorn, conjunct Mars.

I think a lot about Capricorn is control. Control of image really, and how others see them. Capricorn energy, however, is not fixed energy, it is cardinal energy, so whil Capricorns seek to control their image, the image they adopt is not tied to any sort of hard and fast rules, except that it is controlled. That is the ONLY hard and fast rule, control, control, control. It is not so much about controlling others, like say a Scorpio or a Leo, but about self-control. They see it as a responsibility, a way to demonstrate power and achievement. "I'm in charge of myself." That's why Mars is exalted in Capricorn. Mars is the identity, the power, the strength, and Saturn molds that energy into a controlled force.

It makes sense then, that with so much emphasis on control, that Capricorns find themselves in positions of management, power, and status. Their achievement comes from their self-control, which extends to other areas of life which require control. They make good managers, however, not because they seek to dominate others, but because of their own internal need for control. When you are so well controlled, you have good boundaries, a good sense of direction, a know-how of how you build a successful, effective operation, since that what you've done with yourself. Capricorns set a tempo by their own form of self-control, which inevitably makes sense in terms of business. We all like to follow someone who seems to know what they are doing, who is confident in their capabilities, who is methodical. We all want to listen to that person. Self-authority is an attractive quality in that sense.

Now some Capricorns deny this, or it may not even be true for them. That also makes sense, because of the perfecting aspect of this quality. Self-control and self-mastery isn't easy. Saturnian qualities are demanding, and they don't seem to promise much a reward, at least not for a long time. The status, power, and achievement which can sometimes be the pay-back for self-control, often doesn't happen until way past a Capricorn's 40s. Especially in a society like the one in the USA, which values and idolizes youth, waiting until you're out of those years to feel confident and good about who you are, as well as having other people seek your counsel, seems like a nightmare, and certainly not a viable, appreciated path. So many Capricorns rebel, or disown this part of themselves, or simply refuse to see it.

But Saturn is pesky and usually drags a Capricorn back to that path after a certain point, especially when the Capricorn anxiety kicks in.

Cold as ice and social-climber? Now that could be true for some Capricorns, but I also think that is a significant exageration, and off target.

Let's look at the cold component first. Capricorns are typically reserved, yes, but cold, uncaring? They are an Earth Sign, so they are sensual and they must feel, coldness would not jive with their earthy qualities. Reserved, composed, guarded, yes. But underneath it all? Warmth. Dig deep into the Earth and you'll find the Core, a hot molten place. Dig deep into a Capricorn, and you'll find the same thing. But in both cases, you had to get through a thick layer of granite first. Protect what is sensitive. Capricorns, when at their best, use their natural reserve to guard and protect what they love, first themselves, and then their friends and family. They use their natural desire to abstain from what brings them pleasure, to ensure that those they love have access to it. But they do this in a practical way, which can seem cold to those who maybe are bit more impulsive and less controlled in their affections and desires. And then when they do eventually cut loose, you are guarenteed a good time. There is nothing like a Capricorn's sense of humor.

And then speaking desires, let's move on to the point about being social-climbers. Ok, this probably is a bit true, and I won't deny that. Capricorns are climbers, but not always social climbers. Capricorns typically can't be that sauve.


But, I do have a Cancer Sun, so maybe I'm just a bit biased.


mod.

[LittleMiss]

I hadn't thought about Saturn beeing Capricorn's planet and that it is conjunct Sun.
But wouldn't you think the moon in scorpio, and mercury/venus in Saggittarius and Aquarius will give more emotional, idealistic and energetic/spontanous traites, that weighs up for the "earthy", seriousness of Capricorn?
I also agree that sun in 5th house would give a bit more "fire" to the Capriocorn sun.

[Ebenia]

Modcleopatra, you described perfectly what I feel about Capricornian nature. I got a little touchy feely actually - as a capricorn, it is sometimes hard to put my feelings in to words and when someone ables to do it - the release is there and it feels so good.

Thank you!

[Modcleopatra]

Originally Posted by Ebenia

Modcleopatra, you described perfectly what I feel about Capricornian nature. I got a little touchy feely actually - as a capricorn, it is sometimes hard to put my feelings in to words and when someone ables to do it - the release is there and it feels so good.

Thank you!

awww, you my dear, are so entirely welcome. with your chart on hand, that reaction makes sense, and thank-you for sharing. the pleasure was most certainly all mine. :smiles:

mod.

[Arian Maverick]

[deleted comment about joke - Moderator]

In my own opinion, Capricorn always seemed so much less complex than other signs. It can't be that simple, can it? Anyway, please tell me what you think, I'm keen to find out.

I'd like to quote two statements from an interview with astrologer Barry Cowger. It was within the context of a discussion regarding Midheaven signs, but I believe it applies equally to Sun signs:

So with all Cardinal signs it's about doing, and as an Earth sign, it's about doing that here on the earth itself. I see Capricorn as one of the more spiritual signs because those of us who are more realized about our true spiritual nature are those of us who are trying to bring whatever that is about our transcendent nature to earth, incarnate, here and now.

(Capricorn is the 'highest' sign on the natural zodiacal wheel) of who you are as a spiritual being with an earth body and all the rest of us that is earth-bound and earth-concerned..

Source: Astrology - Midheaven in Capricorn

Arian Maverick

[BOOGY99]

Originally Posted by EJ53

Perhaps you are identifying with the Chart Ruler...Mercury in Sagittarius/4th.

**********

interesting, my partner has sun and asc in cappy, ruler is saturn in pisces, i have to say he is very much like pisces, more than a cappy.

he has that dry cappy sense of humor

[Earth Sign]

I read that all planets are influenced by the rulers of the sign they're in. My asc is being influenced by Mercury, so that probably makes me seem a little like a Sagittarius. But my Sun in Capricorn, being influenced by my Saturn in Capricorn should mean I'm super-duper capricorny, right?

I definately feel my Venus in Aquarius energy. I actually don't know about Mercury too much, but I think I have Sagittarian traits. But something about Capricorn just isn't coming through, I don't have leadership qualities, I don't have that cardinal drive... mind you, the majority of my chart is fixed, and I feel more fixed than cardinal. Unfortunately...

But there a lot of traits you mentioned that do fit me very well. I don't respond well to authority figures, and that Capricorn humor that was mentioned, I think I have a weird sense of humor... other people think I do, also. I find myself using inside jokes in public a lot, is that weird?

As for the Moon in Scorpio thing, hmm, I don't really know about that either. But I heard that they are understanding of people's deep emotions, and as far as that goes I think that fits, I'm not squeamish, anyway.

You all had very good responses, thanks for all the input so far. I'll post again here in a while, for now I'm just trying to learn from what you're all saying, if that's okay.

[Claire19]

Originally Posted by JayM

I was just joking. Im sorry if you took offence I thought it was an innocent joke.

My mom and dad are both aires.........

It is Aries actually and it is known to be one of the brighter more intelligent signs so Aries people should just laugh off any comment to the contrary.

[Claire19]

I dont think control is the right description of Capricorn/Saturn energy, that belongs to Scorpio/Pluto. They are concerned with formulating and abiding by the rules and regulations. Discipline and hardwork are the key words.
Goal oriented and reaching for success. They have a wish to be respected and to be an authority figure. This is purely the archetype I am talking about. It is about structure and measuring of time and progress. The Seagoat emerges from the sea on his solid hooves and makes the rocky ascent to the top. It is about overcoming obstacles, gaining patience and maturing along the way. It is the paternal versus the maternal of Cancer. I think it is repression that can be based in fear rather than coldness. Ever practical and down to earth but loyal and enduring.

That is my take on it. There is a difference between control and discipline, subtle though it may be.

[JayM]

Yes I know that aires are straight forward both my parents have a 4 planet stellium in aires, both including sun mercury and venus.

I have read that capricorn has a more general corporate like control that I think is similar to what modcleo was talking about, the control that scorpio gravatates towards is a more personal kind of control.

[Arian Maverick]

Thank you for appeasing me, Claire19 and EJ53. Straight-forward is a much better adjective than simple because, in my opinion, no zodiacal archetype is simple. I was quite upset to read that Earth Sign felt this way about Capricorn even before JayM made her comments regarding Aries.

Now I feel obliged to offer some observations about Capricorn after have had disrupted the flow of conversation.

Everything I've ever heard about Capricorn is that it's very traditional, it's a social climber, cold as ice, has to work to feel worth, etc. What do you all think of Capricorn?

Regarding the comment about Capricorn being "cold as ice," I thought I'd offer this quote, courtesy of Astrology: ACosmic Science by Isabel M. Hickey:

"Capricorns are accused of being cold and insufficiently concerned about those close to them. This is true if Saturn or the Sun has afflictions in the chart."

So, as you can see, this trait does not apply to all Capricorns.

Here's another quote:

"Capricorn people can exemplify the highest or the lowest qualities of which human nature is capable. They are capable of great strength and have a strong sense of purpose. How they use that strength and what that purpose will be is of utmost importance. Expediency is a Capricorn keyote. 'How can I use this' differs from 'How can this be of use to others?' These attitudes show the difference between the unevolved and the evolved soul born in Capricorn."

I think this is important because it demonstrates that the Capricorn energy, like any other zodiacal energy, can be utilized in many different ways. The expression described in the preceding paragraph is far from the stereotypical negative attributes associated with this sign.

Arian Maverick

[Earth Sign]

It's interesting that you link the mother figure of Cancer to the father figure of Capricorn, Claire19, I'd never heard that before, but it makes sense to me.

Arian Maverick, I don't actually feel that way about Capricorn, I started this thread because I wasn't satisfied with the description of Capricorn I've been hearing, I didn't think it could have possibly been as simple-minded as I've always heard it was. I just need some reassurance, lol.
But the quotes you gave were very helpful, I see what you mean by the Capricorn energy varying. Do you think that higher register of Capricorn is mostly accomplished through good aspects? I'm thinking Sextile with Neptune or something, for compassion.

I have this theory about Capricorn that I've been thinking about for a while, I've been a bit concerned about how it may be recieved by people, because usually when I bring up Carl Payne Tobey's theories it doesn't go over well. Because Tobey said the Houses started with Leo, rather than Aries. He reached that conclusions through mathematics, he said all of Astrology was mathematical. Using his system, he linked Capricorn with the 8th House, the House of Death.

He said Capricorn represents the establishment, and because the establishment is always dying and rebuilding, Capricorn is supposed to keep what is dying alive. I think Capricorn may have an inherent fear of Death, and for that reason it is sometimes a social-climber because that way it thinks it can escape death. Capricorn is seen as traditional, sometimes stuck in the old ways, and that has to do with the House the Death because again it is trying to keep up the establishment. Some people have said Capricorn is only traditional when it involves something of proven value, and that may be true, because it needs to have an established value.

When I was a kid every toy I ever got had to be put through what my parents called the "stress test", I guess I had to check if it was of quality before I accepted it. When I think back on it, it kind of sounds like early Capricornism.

Also, when Capricorn is called "cold as ice" I think it may be because of Capricorn's guarded attitude, it won't accept something until has proven that it can keep up. Some people say Capricorn is unconcerned with relations and friends, I think, maybe, because it doesn't want to be surprised or taken off guard when something goes wrong, as things often do in real life. I think that stems back to the House of Death because Capricorn doesn't want to get attached to friends before they die. Okay, that sounds horrible, please rephrase it better in your own head. Essentially I think it's because they don't want to be hurt, they want to remain objective so their emotions won't get ahold of them, they want to have control over themselves.

Capricorn isn't ready to change, in that way it's the opposite of Aquarius because Aquarius always changes. Aquarius is the sign that pretty much represents change, sudden change, unexpected change. Capricorn doesn't like surprises, I think, so it doesn't go along with that at all. Tobey said Capricorn and Aquarius are opposite sides of the same coin. One keeps up the establishment, the other tears it down.

But because there is a time for changing things, there is a time for staying the same. For Aquarian's destructive nature, Capricorn must endure, which may result in stubbornness. Capricorn children are loved by adults because they listen and learn well, they want to be like their teachers, and as they grow older they become the only part of the youth that still abides by the old teachings. I think Capricorn wants to keep things even longer than it can live, make an imprint on society so it will be remembered, so it's teachings won't be forgotten and it will always be established. It has a lot of inherent drive from that cardinal energy because it wants to live beyond itself, because just like it fears everything around itself changing, it doesn't want to be taken by that ultimate of changes, either.

Does that make sense? It's still all theoretical, but I think that psychology may have a lot to do with it, rather than just business. This is what I've been thinking about these days, and it all comes from what Carl Payne Tobey said about the houses, which isn't very traditional. He said Leo is always first, it's the center of the universe, and he said it was the 1st House. That's just what I heard and it isn't entirely necessary for my theory, I guess, but it's what I learned it from...

Anyway, please tell me what you think of my theory, we're just brainstorming now...

[Earth Sign]

I found this three-and-a-half minute documentary on youtube about Capricorns, sorry for the bad sound quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eDaSvRO9xA