Mercury in Dignity and Debility

[Arian Maverick]

This series of threads was created with the intention of discussing the influence of planetary dignity and debility in natal astrology. Each planet has been designated its own thread and a quick reference sheet of this planet's dignity and debility has been provided.

Dignity:

• Mercury exerts rulership over Gemini and Virgo
• Mercury is exalted in Virgo

Debility:

• Mercury is in its detriment in Sagittarius and Pisces
• Mercury is in its fall in Pisces

Arian Maverick

[Howl]

Merc in detriment in Sagittarius, I have little idea what this means for me. My mind is not debilitated!!

I suppose, in the sign opposing gemini, it may have a "can't see the trees for the forest" kind of issue. I do tend to extrapolate very quickly from the physical realities of an issue to the metaphysical/ethical implications.

Sorry (sun conjunct mercury) I can't see ANYTHING wrong with my thinking

[ShadowRain]

Hi there - did an exercise a while ago to see whether I could figure out why a planet would be in dignity or detriment in a particular sign. So here's my take on why Mercury is in Detriment in Sag.

Mercury in Sagittarius – Detriment

Sagittarius is about the overview or wider sense of life and the cosmos, reaching for a higher ideal, philosophy and spirituality, higher mind.

Mercury is in detriment in Sagittarius because it is about the communication of the message, while Sagittarius is about the content of the message, the message itself. Mercury is about the communication of the message to the masses (outside of self) while Sagittarius is about the communication with the inner self. Mercury feels uncomfortable with the deeper inner meaning that Sagittarius attributes to the message, as its intent and interest is more superficial.

It's very much a first/second attention look at things, but you can have a look at the rest of my article here - http://www.astrologersapprentice.co....es-debilities/ .

Hope it helps in some way.

PS: Have mercy - I was a total newbie when I was trying to figure this out.

[Howl]

Hey ShadowRain,

Thanks! My family come from South Africa & Zimbabwe, by the way. I'm dying to come visit

[ShadowRain]

Hey there Howl - you should make a plan to come and visit. It's lovely and the weather plays along for the most part

[carnna]

Originally Posted by Arian Maverick

This series of threads was created with the intention of discussing the influence of planetary dignity and debility in natal astrology. Each planet has been designated its own thread and a quick reference sheet of this planet's dignity and debility has been provided.

Dignity:

• Mercury exerts rulership over Gemini and Virgo
• Mercury is exalted in Aquarius

Debility:

• Mercury is in its detriment in Sagittarius and Pisces
• Mercury is in its fall in Leo

Arian Maverick

Thought I'd interject here, just so you realize that:

Mercury is exalted in virgo (as well as in rulership), fall in pisces.

mercury is rather unique in the planets as: he can be she, is like quicksilver and is hard to catch, takes on like a chameleon, cunning & clever, naturally of a hot & dry nature though rules gemini hot & moist & virgo cold & dry.
The two are mental, yet very different. One through speech, writing & manual dexterity; the other through the very act of being through, exacting, detail orientated, perfect editor type and can spot that needle in the haystack quickly.

there is no exaltation in aquarius and no fall's in leo.

[23]

Yes, I have never heard of it being exalted in Aqu. In fact, I think none of the planets are exalted in Aqu that I know of.

Still I am happy if it is, being a Mercury in Aquarius person myself!

[Arian Maverick]

Unfortunately, there seems to be quite a bit of misinformation on the Internet...I'll correct this when I get the chance

EDIT: In an attempt to redeem myself and my intelligence, an MSN group called Astro Zombies sites Mercury as being exalted in Aquarius:

Mercury: Exalted in Aquarius, Detriment in Sagittarius and Pisces, Fall in Leo, and Dignity in Gemini and Virgo. Orbits the entire zodiac in about 87 days. Remains in each Zodiac sign on the average of 7 days. This planet stands for the mind and intellect as well as communication. All the mental faculties are embodied within this planet's characteristics. Some refer to it as the path that thought travels between the unconscious mind and the conscious mind. Mercury in Retrograde which happens about four times a year can wreak havoc on signed contracts, author's drafts, computer systems, and just about anything that has a mode of communication and commitment will need to be redone when this tiny planet closest to the Sun appears Retrograde. Considered a Minor Benefic. Ruler of the Zodiac Signs:
Gemini and Virgo. Keywords: physical and mental communication

Also, from a slightly more reputable source, Robert Hand states that "some modern astrologers make Mercury exalted in Aquarius" although "there is no traditional foundation for that." This can be found in his 23rd installment of Astrology by Hand.

Arian Maverick

[carnna]

well, if they want to exalt mercury in aquarius can't see how it can be stoped (~grin).
I'm curious to how an aquarian mercury behaves in such exalted state though.
interesting. Does this somehow diminish virgo's exaltation of mercury?

And how do they justify it? Meaning, why have they decided that mercury is in an exalted state in aquarius, what reasoning is behind this?

aquarius, fixed, airy, masculine, ya know, the fixed signs hoard things & aquarius (ruler saturn) hoards knowledge .....
hmmmm, how does one think mentally in a fixed, exalted state? what is the precedent for this? and what about leo?

This would make mercury in fall in leo,,,,,,,the sun won't stand for it! nothing "falls" in his warm & generous sign. For he is the life giver, spirit of man, one who feeds and warms us and causes life to spring forth (though from a distance, get to close you get burned as mercury often does, but then he is of an Hot & dry one himself) and, lest anyone forget, The Authority.

Must have something to do with the age of aquarius.
ah well, wonder how they interpret it? it's amazing that anyone follows astrology with all the made up stuff out there, sigh.

zombie's did you say? ~grin


I'm sorry if you took offense, none was meant. I have so enjoyed this forum, but I see now that it is to new age for me and my traditional ways.
I shan't contradict nor correct again. It's all open, I see that now.

again, I apologize for not understanding/comprehending the specific genre of your system of dignity and debilities and will refrain from subjecting anyone to the old ways and reasons of assigning dignities and debilities, unless they ask of course.

[Arian Maverick]

I admit that I cannot see the logic behind this placement either, but summer vacation has addled my brain to such an extent that, at the time I typed this, I did not question the author's dubious logic!

I'm sorry if you took offense, none was meant.

If anything, I should apologize...I'm a quintuple Aries and my ego is easily bruised. Please continue to share your astrological knowledge with the community!

Arian Maverick

[Manic_Monday]

Originally Posted by carnna

The two are mental, yet very different.

That made me think of me and my sister. I'm a Virgo, she's a Gemini. We think the same, have the same opinions, and we have a lot in common. The difference is the way we express ourselves. I keep things to myself, she tells the world. We can't get along. She always annoys me, I always annoy her.

[ShadowRain]

Mercury exalted in Aquarius - my take on it is as follows:

Mercury in Aquarius – Exalted
Aquarius energy is indifferent, objective, unconventional, distant, uninvolved. It’s about the collective knowing, idealism, brotherhood. Independent, original, inventive.

Independence of through and mental energy from the emotional and subjective aspects of the message, allows Mercury to be exalted in Aquarius. Communication to the masses (outside of self) while remaining uninvolved and distant supports the Aquarian energy of the collective knowledge and knowing, the dissemination of ideas and knowledge while having no responsibility or attachment to the content of that which is being communicated.

I wouldn't really see Virgo as a mental energy - for me it's too practical to be a space cadet (which the air signs can be if not properly focussed and channeled). I have an Aquarian hubby ... and he's got a Grand Trine in Earth. Yet he still manages to get side tracked and battles to stay focussed on any particular thing for any length of time. One would think that the Grand Trine would over shadow the Aquarian Sun, but it doesn't seem to work that way. Then again ... the Sun is in detriment in Aquarius ... hmm, something to think about.

[carnna]

well, if you all want to exalt mercury AGAIN (cause if you notice only one exaltation & one fall per planet or luminary), use it. Don't see how any can have more than one exalted status, but then most modern astrologers don't know how to use it in delineating or interpret it anyhow.

I'll continue to use virgo as it's exaltation as it has been used for nearly 2 millineum (if not longer). Aquarius, Leo, Scorpio, gemini and sagittarius have no exaltations and with exception of moon in scorpio, no falls.

[ShadowRain]

** Off topic ** Carnna - not a good idea to post a potentially inflammatory comment about modern astrologers during a Mercury retrograde period ... it tends to get people's back up. ** end Off Topic **

As far as I'm aware, Mercury is in dignity in Virgo (or as the medievalists put it 'exerts rulership over Virgo'). In looking through the rest of the dignities and debilities, Mercury seems to be the only one that would be in dignity and exaltation in the same sign ... why the difference or 'special' status?

From the looks of it, as mentioned elsewhere in this forum, there is a lot of discrepancy between the various schools on what exactly constitutes the essential dignities and debilities of each planet - depends on which 'ancient' text you consult.

[Shining Ray]

I was wondering what my Mercury Fall in Pisces was supposed to mean because Mercury is my Chart Ruler.

I read this Article in the link below and I feel a lot better about the Planet now.

http://www.stariq.com/Main/Articles/P0001767.HTM

Mercury being my Chart Ruler in Pisces/Fall I have had hearing difficulties as a child, and needed an operation to fix it.

Also I had to have surgery on my hand, well my little finger because I cut all the nerves on glass. Possibly this is related to my Mercury in Fall and chart Ruler of my physical 1st house.

Maybe this is all connected to Mercury ruling hearing/communicating. I did need speech therapy lessons as well.

Mercury rules the hands, I had difficulty with my hands after the operation I couldn't use them for six weeks. Now I can't feel the top of my little finger.

Shining Ray

[Missa]

Mercury is strong in air signs in general, I guess this is where some people get the idea to make it exalted in Aquarius (for example). This is the first time I read about it though, and I'll go with Virgo like most astrologers do (and have been doing for centuries). Virgo is very different from Gemini for sure, but fits Mercury as well. Virgo is studious, critical, analytical, curious, intelligent. Though I guess that when new suitable planet is found Virgo will get a new ruler, but stay exalted in Mercury.

[freedomlover]

""Mercury is in its detriment in Sagittarius and Pisces""(quote)

I have Mercury Retrograde in Sagittarius in my 12th house, ruled by Pisces, and it is accompanied by numerous squares.

I would love to know what this means, as I have such a terrible problem with my mind. I also feel like I'm multiple personality, with the exception that I am aware of all of them- no "zoning out" while another takes over. It seems like I can be aware of several "me's" at once,and each of them has a different opinion on the same subject, and each of them wants to do something else. I feel so "scattered" - like "Humpty-Dumpty", except I don't have anyone to help put me back together.

I know that sounds really weird, but does anybody have any thoughts on that?

[pisceskitty]

Hola,

My Mercury is in Pisces Rx in the 5th house. It's opp. Pluto in the 12th, and Square my Gemini Moon in the 9th. When I was a child, I barely spoke! I was so quiet, everyone thought there was something wrong with me. I have kept a journal since I was a little girl, written poetry, short stories etc...but I'm way too secretive to let anyone read anything. I just felt like no one would "get it" anyway, so why bother.

I spent alot of time daydreaming in class, and had a vivid imagination. I had the ability to transport myself to any place in this world. Daydreaming is still one of my favorite things to do. I tend to feel like I'm all over the place, and I have the attention spand of a 2yr old..lol I get really excited about a project, and half way through, I've completely lost interest! this has been a HUGE obstacle in my life, and I need to get it together!

[Howl]

Hah, fancy that, it had never occurred to me that my Mercury was in detriment. It's in Sagittarius, within 3 (seconds) conjunction with the Sun, and more loosely conjunct Neptune.

Pisceskitty, your mercury sounds remarkably like mine. I was a shy child and have always written privately. I still am a terrific daydreamer. I never heard anybody say that daydreaming was their favourite thing to do, but that makes perfect sense! before about 14 years old, it certainly was my favourite thing to do. It remains in the top 3, and I do it every day . My current thing is to ride (my bike) to work and back with my headphones on - thats at least 40minutes a day spare for daydreaming!

I don't know, my Mercury doesn't behave too much like it's in detriment. Saggie would, supposedly, cause it to be a bit sloppy about detail right? A bit overenthusiastic about ideas, and a bit lax about their implementation? Well, I'm not mentally organised by nature, but the IMPORTANT thing is that I can TELL when I need to be, and purposely "make" organisation happen. Perhaps its that sextile to 3H Saturn that helps out my Mercury.

I would say for me that the conjunction with Neptune (daydreams) is more notable than my Mercury's placement in Sagittarius. I'll give you an example. Recently I realised that I make daily decisions almost entirely on gut feeling. I went into a shop and bought several things I needed yesterday, and as I was leaving, realised that I had forgotten to buy something. I decided not to take the five steps (!) to go back into the shop to get the one thing, because I didn't feel like it. Didn't want to go back in there. Walking away by myself in the sunshine felt more right so I did that. That isn't how most people make decisions, is it?? Yet it gives me great joy to know that I can follow the feeling and wander off into the sunshine, instead of submitting to the logical order of action at all times.

The only circumstance where I would make the opposite decision (the practical, logical, goal oriented, reliable decision) is when someone is relying upon or assessing the quality of my decisions/work. Then, I can literally spend a whole week with my nose to the grindstone churning out an essay/report/whatever. To some extent, I need that pressure. I subscribe to deadlines and expectations, otherwise I would spend eternity wandering in the sunshine, immersed in internal daydreams.

Thank goodness for Saturn, and his lovely sextile to my Sun/Merc/Neptune stellium

[dblsag]

Freedom Lover -

I also have this same configeration. Mercury in Sag retrograde in the 12th. My third house is also ruled by Pisces. I feel like my only saving grace is my mercury conjunct mars and mercury conjunct Asc, and mecury sextile pluto. Also, Im also always wondering about the deeper or spiritual meaning for this placement.

[Caprising]

Having mercury progess from virgo through to sagg, I think I may be able to add another veiw of how merc works in these signs. Natally, merc in virgo (in 9th) was great, I learned to read and write very easily, quickly grasping where to put the commas and full stops, all the detailed stuff came naturally.When Merc progressed into libra, I started to read faster, and actually thought about the content of the story as I was reading, on the negative side I also became a bit of an "airhead" (with jupiter in aries now in my progressed 3rd house (house of mind) I did tend to ramble on a bit at the slightest provocation! Fast forward to 25 years of age and merc progressed into scorpio, man what a change!! now I had to delve deeply into everything that I thought about or read (mostly centred around sex/death/life!) , and with several progressed planets now in scorp this was emotionally challenging to say the least. Chalk and cheese would be a good way to describe the differing thinking patterns. Now finally my merc has progressed into sagg, giving me a different expression of how I think. The previous merc positions are still involved but the sagg progression is not into detailed knowledge like merc in virgo (although I can still do it if it involves something interesting (like a motorcycle engine ) but my thinking has become more "scattered" and it's a lot harder to concerntrate on mundane activities, like doing my tax return bores me to tears, I would much rather think (and read) (and talk) about philosophy and astrology, and why we are here, my focus is on sagg topics. In summary I "feel" that merc in virgo is good for people that want to study numbers and letters, like maybe a secretary type of vocation,it's easy with this placing, while merc in libra is more people orientated so would rather talk to people rather than do the numbers. Merc in scorp, well if theres a conspiracy theory involving sex, lies and people, this is a great placing to work out who did what, I wanted to be a detective at this time as this is where my mercury energy was focussed, working out the underlying motivations of people. Merc in sagg, looking at the bigger picture, while getting confused at times with the scatteredness, but seeing life differently through a different sort of thought pattern, the "big" picture, definitely not into "meaningless" numbers and letters! Merc. works differently in each sign, I am inclined to think that sometimes there is an underlying theme to some published astrologers, and that is that a planet is "good" if it can keep you in a 9 to 5 job,(like merc in virgo) while it's not "good" if you spend your time studying more interesting subjects, like philosophy, but then the major publishing companies are owned by business people, so would welcome views that keep us "at work" earning them money and power. Having said that, there is also the fact that we need to earn our daily bread also, but you don't have to accept the "normal" 9 to 5 job, there are alternative lifestyles to look at, like working part time and growing your own food , which incidently is what we used to do before the "industrial revolution", Has anyone noticed that when older folk retire from their jobs they 'get lost" in the garden! . (There goes my prog.merc in sagg, craving the freedom to do what comes naturally) Cheers Caprising.

[siamese_dream]

I have Mercury in Gemini in the 11th house, opposite Saturn and Uranus, sextile Jupiter and MC, and conjunct Chiron.

I think that having the Saturn opposition can put a damper on my communicative abilities. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a total fog and completely miss what is going on. I also think that I'm sometimes unable to express myself clearly - unless I have what I want to say planned out, I tend to stumble over my words.

As for Mercury in Gemini itself - I enjoy this description from Astrodienst (astro.com)...
"Your mind is very active, restless and fond of change. You may get bored easily, unless something stimulating comes along. Your desire for constant activity may make you appear extremely nervous and unstable, but what is happening is that you mentally process the world around you faster than most people.


One problem stemming from your desire for new knowledge and experience is that you may never really finish anything. Try to be disciplined enough to stay with one train of thought long enough to learn something from it."


I am intellectually-oriented, scattered, curious, a very quick reader, and a great writer ...typical Gemini stuff.

[poshslob]

My Mercury is in Leo, which is technically in its fall. However, my Mercury doesn't feel debilitated at all.

Perhaps because it is in the 8th house, where is it is exalted by domicile since Pluto is exated by Leo.

[wilsontc]

posh,

You said:

My Mercury is in Leo, which is technically in its fall.

Traditionally, Mercury in fall in Pisces, not in Leo. Personally, I have found Mercury in Pisces making a lot more sense as being the "fall" of Mercury energy.

Traditionally,

Tim

[Jenna Jupiter]

Originally Posted by carnna

well, if they want to exalt mercury in aquarius can't see how it can be stoped (~grin).
I'm curious to how an aquarian mercury behaves in such exalted state though.
interesting. Does this somehow diminish virgo's exaltation of mercury?

And how do they justify it? Meaning, why have they decided that mercury is in an exalted state in aquarius, what reasoning is behind this?

aquarius, fixed, airy, masculine, ya know, the fixed signs hoard things & aquarius (ruler saturn) hoards knowledge .....
hmmmm, how does one think mentally in a fixed, exalted state? what is the precedent for this? and what about leo?

This would make mercury in fall in leo,,,,,,,the sun won't stand for it! nothing "falls" in his warm & generous sign. For he is the life giver, spirit of man, one who feeds and warms us and causes life to spring forth (though from a distance, get to close you get burned as mercury often does, but then he is of an Hot & dry one himself) and, lest anyone forget, The Authority.

Must have something to do with the age of aquarius.
ah well, wonder how they interpret it? it's amazing that anyone follows astrology with all the made up stuff out there, sigh.

zombie's did you say? ~grin


I'm sorry if you took offense, none was meant. I have so enjoyed this forum, but I see now that it is to new age for me and my traditional ways.
I shan't contradict nor correct again. It's all open, I see that now.

again, I apologize for not understanding/comprehending the specific genre of your system of dignity and debilities and will refrain from subjecting anyone to the old ways and reasons of assigning dignities and debilities, unless they ask of course.

Have Mercury in Aquarius in the Virgo house, house 6. It works quite good, but i'm VERY restless.

/JJ