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  #1  
Old 10-26-2009, 06:58 PM
Minami Minami is offline
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Will he win the court case ?

[UPDATE on 6th Jan]
Dear All,

Happy New Year !
Hope you still remember this case, it not yet finished..

Since the hearing delayed again from 23rd Nov to 27th Jan, and also last chart Saturn is in 7H , suggest to cast again the chart, so my friend erected the chart with the same question again on this Tuesday.

Here is the chart :



Bf's sig : Moon (7H)
Opponent : Saturn (1H - 7th from 7H)
Judge : Venus (4H - 10th from 7H)
Bf's Result : Mars - Retrograde (10H - 4th from 7H)
Opponent's Result : Venus (4H)
Bf's lawyer : Sun (8H - 2nd from 7H)
Opponent's lawyer : Saturn (2H)

Moon is in 2H of Bf, which is with his lawyer, and there is POF, seems good help there.
Opponent Saturn is placed in its 9H, exalt. in Libra, makes no aspect to Bf.

Judge is Venus, trines Moon (Bf) and squares Saturn (Opponent), should be favour Bf more.

Bf's lawyer Venus and Opponent's lawyer Saturn are both in cadent house, howevern, Saturn is exalt.

End of Result of Bf is Mars, which is in Bf's house, is it good to him ? but Mars is malefic and retrograde...what it means in this situation ?

End of Result of Opponent is Venus, which is in her 12H, seems same as per previous chart...she will be put away ?

Still can find some positive pt for her Bf, but I am not sure..

Hope you guys can share your thought for this new chart, many thanks !!

Best Wishes,
Minami

************************************************** ************************************************** *************



This is a recent case of my friend.
She is also learning horary astrology, and she erected a chart and asked for if her boyfriend will win a court case (criminal case).
Attached is the chart.

Coz she asked the question, she is the Asc, and we turned the chart for her Bf to see his situation.

Bf = H7 = Mercury
Opponent = H1 (7th from H7) = Jupiter
Judge = H4 (10th from H7) = Moon
Result = H10 (4th from H7) = Jupiter
Bf’s lawyer & witnesses = H8 (2nd from H7) = Venus
Opponent’s lawyer & witnesses = H2 (8th from H7) = Mars

First of all, I saw Bf's significator Mercury is in its own sign – Virgo.
He is in a favourable position.

His lawyer and witnesses – Venus also in his house.
But Venus falls in Virgo. Is it indicate the lawyer cannot help her Bf ?
Opponents’ lawyer is Mars, it also falls in Cancer, both lawyers are fall, is it mean both are not a good lawyer ?

Secondly, the Opponent is Jupiter, makes no aspect to her Bf.
The Judge is Moon, exalt. in Tanrus, it shows how powerful he is.
The Judge (Moon) squares Jupiter, and trine Mercury (BF), is it means may the Judge is favour her Bf more than the Opponent ?

The result is rule by Jupiter, I don’t know what it implies.

Lastly, the POF is in her Bf's house, I hope it means good fortune is with him and give him more chance to win.

Sorry that if I put the above in a wrong way.
Can anyone give me their opinions to this chart ?

Thank you !

Cheers,
Minami
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Last edited by Minami; 01-06-2010 at 07:27 AM. Reason: Updated and erected a new chart !
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  #2  
Old 10-26-2009, 09:23 PM
LionKing LionKing is offline
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

I would agree with you. The 7th H looks like the winner in this chart. Merc is there. 4th H ruler is in the 7th H. 4th H being the final or end of things. The 4th H would be his radical 10th H. 10th H is also the house of courts.
V/r LionKing
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  #3  
Old 10-27-2009, 04:47 AM
Minami Minami is offline
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

Hi LionKing,

Thanks for your comments.
I hope there will be good result, will keep you post.

Just found that i was misread the rulership of 4th H, which is Gemini, should be Mercury....but I said Moon in the first post...

Cheers,
Minami
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  #4  
Old 10-28-2009, 03:26 AM
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Arrow Re: Will he win the court case ?

I believe that in a criminal case, you want to check the twelve house and its ruler. Observing the 7th, 4th... is more for civil cases...When I see the ruler of the 1st (actually the 7th on the chart) coming in conjuction with saturn, the ruler of the 12th (here you observe either the 12th or the derived 12th), is a positive outcome: he will go to jail.

Please provide us with your feedback...
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  #5  
Old 10-28-2009, 04:42 AM
Minami Minami is offline
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

Hi Astro09,

Yes, this is a criminal case.
How to see if it is a civil or criminal case ?

Would u pls advise why need to see 12H ?
Rulership of 12H is Saturn but rulership of derived 12H is Sun....not the same...I am a bit confuse...

Look forward to your further advice, thanks !

Cheers,
Minami
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  #6  
Old 10-31-2009, 03:53 PM
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

Hi Minami, finally got a little time to look at this. Boyfriend is 7, his lawyer is Venus (is it a women maybe) and in his first house, showing that this chart is radical as Mercury and Venus are both in his house one.

Venus is in fall and in term of Saturn. Seeing it from a general perspective, the 12th house of this chart is ruled by Saturn, so she/he is a criminal lawyer. Saturn is a malific and you probably could also interprete it that way, a lawyer dealing with criminals.

Venus is angular which helps her in getting a bit stronger, counteracting her "fall". It does not mean she/he is a bad lawyer, but rather that this lawyer probably cannot do much for her client.

The opposition is Jupiter retrograde in his 12th, all very bad indications of this person. Looks more like this guy is the criminal. Because the quisitor is also signified by Jupiter retro, we can assign the Moon to her instead.

Now his lawyer is Mars in Cancer, also in fall , but Mars rules the water triplicity by night and day so that makes Mars again stronger. Overall I would say both lawyers are of equal capability and maybe Venus, being in her own house, as well as angular, could be just a bit stronger.
His lawyer, Mars, is also in his 5th house which is the house of JOY of Venus so not too well placed.

Quote:
...When I see the ruler of the 1st (actually the 7th on the chart) coming in conjuction with saturn, the ruler of the 12th (here you observe either the 12th or the derived 12th), is a positive outcome: he will go to jail.


No he wont! His derived 12th house is ruled by the Sun in Libra and there is no connection between Mercury and the Sun.

I have the feeling that the opponent might already be in custody as he is in his 12th house. End of the matter for the opponent is Mercury who will apply to Saturn, HIS 12th house ruler, so he might be put away for a while.

End of the matter house for the boyfriend is ruled by Jupiter retro. in his 6th. Maybe they will give him community work to do

Difficult to see who the judge is here, so I just look at who is stronger in this set-up, Mercury or Jupiter retro and it is definitively Mercury, and I can look at Mercury's 10th house, ruled by Mercury, so "success" (10th house) and boyfriend are one and the same, so I think he will win the case.

Also, the part of fortune is in the 7th and ruled by Mercury, notwithstanding that POF is in a critical degree. I think it's accidentally dignified 7th house place + being ruled by a very strong Mercury, will bring luck to the boyfriend.

Just wondering, the querent, Moon has left the square to Jupiter. Did she have anything to do with this guy? Was she his girlfriend in the past?

Waiting for update! Starlink
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Last edited by starlink; 11-01-2009 at 10:38 AM. Reason: removed text formatting
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  #7  
Old 10-31-2009, 06:15 PM
Minami Minami is offline
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

Hi Starlink,

Many thanks for your prompt reply and your detailed analysis.

In fact, the Opponent is a woman. She has been assigned by her company to be stayed in a foreign country for work since July. Maybe this is what you see she might already be in custody.

Quote:
The opposition is Jupiter retrograde in his 12th, all very bad indications of this person. Looks more like this guy is the criminal.
Would you pls advise further about the bad indications of the Opponent ?

Quote:
Just wondering, the querent, Moon has left the square to Jupiter. Did she have anything to do with this guy? Was she his girlfriend in the past?
The querent and the Opponent was once in love with the same man. I think that's why they hv square in the past.

The hearing day is nearer, will keep post the update.
Thank you !!

Cheers,
Minami
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  #8  
Old 11-01-2009, 01:47 AM
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

Minami-I am feeling with your question, that we need to be very sure about the houses to use.This may require a little more background information from you.
I would be tempted to set up the chart as a straighforward *who will win the case* and assign h1/h7 axis to the protagonists...If there has been a specific *relationship* between them,outside this legal situation, that may affect the houses we assign..the querent and the opponent have some relationship.The accused is not asking the question. The Opponent is not asking the question.So if the querent's boyfriend is the quesited, what house do we assign to the opponent?
As jupiter is in h12, *in custody* I think there's a clue..Is one of the people *in custody* or on bail or similarly confined? Knowing that could help us decide which houses to use.
See the problem?
It's a confusing question : We could take H1 for the boyfriend (seeing he is the one in the spotlight, so to speak) and h7 for his legal opponent, and H10 for Judge. That would make for a straightforward analysis of strengths and aspects.
It may help us now if you can share a little more of the background...Are the querent and the Opponent of the boyfriend known to each other?
I'm wondering if a better question may have been *will he go to Prison* if that is a possible outcome of the Trial.
Another way of doing it might be to ask *Which side will win* and assign houses on the basis of whose rulers best match each party..eg if one is male and one is female we might assign rulers on that basis using relevant houses. If the opponent is an ex of the querent's bf that too could change house assignations.We need a bit more info.
Usually in legal charts the h7/h1 axis represents the lawyers I think, not the actual protagonists-I'd like someone to clarify that for me if someone can.
I'm interested in court case horaries. In the past I have set up *event charts* for each hearing date/court appearance etc...this has been very useful to the client..
In my own experience i have found these types of questions work much better when the querent is the one directly involved in the court case.When partner of querent is asking we get into some confusing chart turning issues, unless the question is worded in such a way as to make it obvious-eg.Which party will win? At this stage we would use h1 to represent the querent, but in reality the querent doesnt appear to be directly involved.

Can we have some clarification please??

## I notice Saturn in h7, usually a consideration in regard to whether we will read the chart correctly.That might be worth taking into account here.
If you yourself are the querent, I notice your ruler in h12 where you could be hiding something from the story, because jupiter is close to Neptune.
Cheers
Lillyjgc
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Last edited by lillyjgc; 11-01-2009 at 02:52 AM. Reason: Added ##...
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  #9  
Old 11-01-2009, 08:09 AM
Minami Minami is offline
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

Hi Lilyjgc,

Let me clarify some background information here :

1)The Querent : The girl is asking the question for her current Boyfriend.
She asked the question in the form of "Will my boyfriend win the court case ?" for erecting the chart. She herself is not involved in the case.

2) The Opponent : She hv relation affair with the Boyfriend in the past. She and the querent know each other existence but never meet before.

3) Boyfriend : He is not in custody but is on bail.

4) If turned chart, Boyfriend may win, but if not turn chart, the Opponent may win, this situation is very critical !

Look forward to your comments, thanks !

Cheers,
Minami
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  #10  
Old 11-01-2009, 10:57 AM
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starlink starlink is offline
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

Minami, you should have told us before that the boyfriend is on bail. (maybe that's what I saw when mentioning the community work, also some sort of punishment.)

Background information is crucial to a good interpretation in any horary question. Also you should have mentioned that in fact the opponent is a woman, not a man. Then I would have seen that the quisitor in the past had a problem with the opponent of her NOW boyfriend and I would not have suggested a love affair between quisitor and opponent. (although I was not far from the truth that this whole thing could have something to do with the matters of the heart. Maybe a crime out of passion? She could not stand that the quisitor got the guy instead of her?. You see, you also should have told us what the problem is about.

Quote:
If turned chart, Boyfriend may win, but if not turn chart, the Opponent may win, this situation is very critical !
You must always turn the chart when you want to see what will happen to another person.


When will you hear the outcome? Please let us know. Thank you.

Starlink
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  #11  
Old 11-01-2009, 11:36 AM
Minami Minami is offline
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

Hi Starlink,

Sorry that I may not aware those info are necessary for the interpretation only after reading your 1st reply, will improve next time

The Hearing will be hold on the 23rd Nov, I will update the progress to you.

Thank you !

Cheers,
Minami
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  #12  
Old 11-21-2009, 01:32 PM
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

On this type of question, either his 12th H ruler or the 12th H ruler may be use...
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Old 11-21-2009, 02:24 PM
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

The 9th is the court system, the 10th is the judge, and 12th is prison.
Stricture to judging a chart is saturn in the 7th restricting the astrologer. It is a caution but I would take this more seriously as saturn does not rule the significator.
If we use the 7th for him he is mercury and actually quite strong. His opponent is the 7th and obscured in the 12th or his 6th house of co-worker. His oppoenent has less strength. Venus rules his 9th house. Mercury is in Venus trip. The court system favors him. Venus is in his house and he is moving away from the court system. Mercury also rules the judge so that is also a favorable outcome. The opponent in retrograde implies a change of mind thus the case may be dropped.
Now if we take the girlfriend completely out of the equation it is grim as jupiter is ruler of him and he is confined. He is moving toward a trine to his 6th house of health from the 8th house. He is iin the judges house thus dependent on the judge to make the decision. This puts the judge too in the 12th house implying there is something he does not know....I don't know it does not look good that way.
If we follow the moons course we see if squares jupiter, trines venus, sextiles mars, trines mercury and the last aspect is a trine to saturn.
Hmmm the moon may tell us something about the chart. It is in the second house and ruled by venus. If this is the turned chart using him as the 7th then the moon is telling us more about his 9th house outcome which makes sense. So maybe this is an affirmation of the turned chart which makes the outcome much more favorable. The moon square jupiter, a frustration to his opponent, a trine to venus the court system, sextile to mars in the 11th house of hopes and dreams, trine to mercury then saturn ruler of his 5th and 6th something about details and then the final trine to the part of fortune.
I might suggest she formulate another question. There is something fishy about this one with saturn in the 7th. But this might imply the confining aspects of it all. But it appears it might be a positive outcome.
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Old 12-05-2009, 06:59 AM
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

Quote:
I might suggest she formulate another question. There is something fishy about this one with saturn in the 7th. But this might imply the confining aspects of it all. But it appears it might be a positive outcome.
A plenty of space to explore But positive outcome... Sublime feeling a lot of reasons to celebrate much joy and satisfaction.
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:30 AM
Minami Minami is offline
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

Dear All,

I hv posted the update and new chart on the original thread, pls roll up and hv a look on this, look forward to your comments.

Thanks !!

Best Wishes,
Minami
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Old 01-06-2010, 01:34 PM
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

She is Sa.
He is Moon.
Judge is Ma.
Verdict is Ve.
Accidental dignities for Sa=13 for Moon = -3 According to dignities she would win.
But, judge, Ma rx, essential dignity small, -5, bad judge. Ma, judge, is in Sa's detriment, so he will hurt she. When judge likes or dislikes someone, then it is more important then accidental dignities.
Moon first applay to Ve, verdict, and according to JF , Bf, will win.
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:23 AM
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gemini59 gemini59 is offline
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

I concur with Fensi....
this is the logical conclusion of the chart..
Judge, mars rx also in his house, change of mind, something reversed
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:26 AM
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

MInami

me thinks you will win the case

sun / venus / nnode is in your 1st house

as far as i know it is quite possitive

T
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:48 AM
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

You know I am really tempted to just remove all these extraneous people, her, ex her and just focus on him..
what if we just say 'will he win the court case' and he is saturn in the 9th of legal proceedings...this makes sense to me. Saturn is stong right now period.
Mars would be the judge (10th) and is in the house of his enemy but retrograde (a change of mind)
Moon tells the story of the process. Moon in the 8th of others resources trines several planets 1/trines sun ruler of the 8th house of others resources. That it is happening in his 12th implies something happening behind the scenes or something he does not know about..
2/trines venus or ruler of court proceedings
3/trine mercury retrograde (again a reveral or change of mind or mercury rules agreements and houses of lovers and intercepted ruler of 8th house. Is mercury a change of mind by the opponent and some agreement is made behind the scenes?
We know that mercury continues retrograde to a square to saturn depicting this long term 'antagonistic relationship' of the two.
My take is the court situation will come to some agreement made behind the scenes. He is strong. She will continue to be a thorn in his side working against him as a secret enemy but he will remain exalted.
Hope bout them apples When my head is spinning from turning the chart I just like to 'Keep it simple'.
Keep us posted.
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:54 PM
Minami Minami is offline
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

Hi All,

The hearing will be on this Wed, but we got news that the original judge is changed to another person.
So Mars Retrograde means change of Judge ?

But I am not sure Judge should be Mars or Venus ...
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Old 01-25-2010, 03:48 PM
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minami View Post
Hi All,

The hearing will be on this Wed, but we got news that the original judge is changed to another person.
So Mars Retrograde means change of Judge ?

But I am not sure Judge should be Mars or Venus ...
I guess it would since Mars went retro not long ago.
V/r LionKing
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:00 PM
Minami Minami is offline
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

Dear All,

The Trail hearing finally finished today.But the sentence will be announced on this Friday.
This time, my friend boyfriend ask the question by himself.
He ask if he will be gulity and put into the jail.
Here is the chart he asks today :


He is Moon in 12H, already not a good sign, I am not sure if it already ensure he will be put in prison.
The Judge is still Mars retrograde, now in 1H, don't know what it means...

Would u guys share your thought against this chart ?

Thanks !
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:33 PM
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fensi88 fensi88 is offline
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

Of course, NO. Moon is VOC, nothing will come out of it! We have no applaying aspect between Moon, him and jail, Me, again NO.
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Old 01-29-2010, 04:30 PM
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

I wonder if we will ever know the answer to this since the person who posted it is banned. I have been following the post. I am intrigue on the final outcome. If anyone happens to know, please give us the feedback.
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Old 01-30-2010, 03:48 AM
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Re: Will he win the court case ?

Minami is banned? when?!
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