Discussion on the Natal Promise

[la dona]

I was reading this thread while reading Rushman's book & I was hoping for clarification on some points that are of concern to me. Thanks in advance for your time.

Applying aspects for Sun in natal chart = Natal Promise for woman
Applying aspects for Moon in natal chart = Natal Promise for Men


Questions:

• Only applying aspects with Sun/Moon count? Or do seperating aspect count as well?
• Does Sun square Midheaven count as an aspect for the natal promise? What is the rule regarding Midheaven if there is any. Or thoughts regarding it at least. I've got: Sun (Sag) Squ (Vir) Midheaven - orb: -3:04' - power: 11.10
• Sun aspecting Mercury does NOT promise marriage just a close/initmate relationship. She stated that this is because Mercury is faster than the Sun, fleeting, and that's what her experience holds. Makes sense. But does same rule/logic apply for Moon aspects with Mercury in a male's natal chart?
• Has anyone compared aspects in your chart for a relationship between the partner involved? Any correlation? If i'm correct in deducing the proper relationship markers in time and aspect an example of this would be that in my chart relationship with "Saturn Man" relationship is Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Mercury - orb: +6:08' - power: 4.67) vs. in his chart I would be identified as: Moon (Can) Tri (Sco) Uranus - orb: +3:19' - power: 6.15)
• Are the aspects for natal promise in order? Larger orbs first or more power last? That's one of the ways I deduced which relationship I may be amongst the other aspects.

I was told that I would have three main relationships. 1 with a Mar's man, the second with a Saturn guy, and lastly marry a man with Pluto aspects. When I saw my natal chart's transits, low and behold I had three aspects with the Sun. My last Sun aspect however is with Midhaven so I'm sort of concerned about that. Someone opined that my Uranus aspect may substitute but that doesn't flow with the theory right? So am I always a bridesmaid never a bride? =)

My aspects are as follows:

1: Sun (Sag) Squ (Vir) Midheaven - orb: -3:04' - power: 11.10
2: Moon (Cap) Tri (Vir) Midheaven - orb: -0:43' - power: 10.93
3: Mercury (Sag) Con (Sag) Uranus - orb: +0:20' - power: 9.52
4: Uranus (Sag) Con (Sco) Ascendant - orb: +2:49' - power: 8.96
5: Mercury (Sag) Con (Sco) Ascendant - orb: +3:09' - power: 8.25
6: Mars (Vir) Squ (Sag) Neptune - orb: +2:03' - power: 5.66
7: Venus (Cap) Tri (Vir) Mars - orb: +1:00' - power: 5.14
8: Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Mercury - orb: +6:08' - power: 4.67
9: Venus (Cap) Squ (Lib) Pluto - orb: -2:59' - power: 4.59
10: Neptune (Sag) Sex (Lib) Pluto - orb: -1:56' - power: 4.07
11: Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Uranus - orb: +6:28' - power: 3.83
12: Venus (Cap) Squ (Lib) Saturn - orb: +3:52' - power: 3.58
13: Jupiter (Sco) Con (Lib) Pluto - orb: +4:36' - power: 3.43
14: Pluto (Lib) Squ [Can] Node - orb: +0:59' - power: 3.05
15: Saturn (Lib) Sex (Sag) Neptune - orb: +4:55' - power: 1.08
16: Saturn (Lib) Con (Lib) Pluto - orb: +6:51' - power: 0.21

[gemini59]

When reading through Ms Rushmans book, or what I could, she prefaced the whole thing about the sun and moon is it was a method she used in her youth and it was not 100% accurate...
Thus I have been married once and my sun has absolutely no applying aspects to mars etc. She does not use semisextiles but does use sextiles.

Now She does mention earlier in her book other things to explore.

By the way...it was interesting reading. And she does note that you have to look at progression, transits, eclipses to the charts 'trigger point' which is different for everyone and I will do some research on this note.

[la dona]

I also added my natal chart w/transits & progressions as of today, if it would be of any help.

[gemini59]

Well Venus does rule your 7th and with nodes with it it should be watched. But as I read through Ruths notes I looked at my own astrological history.

I see that when I met my husband the venus/mars/Uranus stellium was being triggered by multiple hard aspects (and venus/mars is my sun/moon midpoint). Thus I might say that this is my 'energy point' or where things may happen.

(my chart should be attached below my signature)

In your case venus is heavily aspected but you have several stelliums. Venus is trined by Mars, your 5th house ruler too with the nodes. But I would look at other times in your life when there was a lot of 'action' things were happening and see what was going on to pin point what 'activates' things for you.

Just some thoughts.

[la dona]

At this point, I'm completly bummed. Either I never had any promise of marriage with my 2 ex's & was hallucinating or I used up all my lifelines.

I thought the Sun aspects so far correlated with the men who were pretty intense in my life but I could be wrong. The first & only aspect that counts under her theory works for my college sweetheart (Ex 1). I think that applies to him because he was an Aquarius rising/Taurus/Taurus (w/2 Grand Trines & a Cradle). Uranus being the ruler of Aquarius I thought applied to him. My second, most recent ex, which I just broke up with after 8 years when he cheated on me is a Virgo/Libra cusp baby with Scorpio ASC, Scorpio Venus & has three planets in the 10th one of which is Saturn. I thought maybe he was the Mercury aspect. Promise broken on his end so I thought on my chart it reflected him with the Mecury aspect but in his chart I would be a Moon aspect represented by Uranus because of my stelliums. Further, when I looked at both of their charts they have numerous moon aspects that correlated with planets that could have represented me. I guess we all attract the same signs. Now I'm just lost.

I hope some of the other things in my chart help me out. I really don't want to become an old maid. Sigh.

If anyone has any other methods for the sake of preserving hope that I have a knight in shining armour I'd gladly appreciate it. Either that of my 1st house stelliums really did intend for me to stand on my own two feet for life.

[Vagabondgirl]

I dont know if Im so lucky with my almost unaspected Libra Sun.... it has only a wide orb sextile to Uranus (singleton) in sagittarius 7th house. Also Sun is ruler of my 5th house. Some say I should have maybe 2 kids. But other places I read that Sun sextile Uranus indicates a childless woman. Im 25 and doing a carreer that I wont finish before 2 years. But then again, my mum had 7 kids after 30

I had 2 serious relationships already, one that I married and another serious one. They both lasted 2-3 years....Both of them were Sagittarius and the new relationship that just started is with a Gemini. Dont know if Ill ever marry again! Cause you kind of change view about marriage when you already did it and failed

[gemini59]

La Dona, I would not use serious relationships as a marker and I would not worry so much about it. She indicated that it was not the most accurate prediction tool.

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by la dona

I was reading this thread while reading Rushman's book & I was hoping for clarification on some points that are of concern to me. Thanks in advance for your time.

Applying aspects for Sun in natal chart = Natal Promise for woman
Applying aspects for Moon in natal chart = Natal Promise for Men



Questions:

• Only applying aspects with Sun/Moon count? Or do seperating aspect count as well?
• Does Sun square Midheaven count as an aspect for the natal promise? What is the rule regarding Midheaven if there is any. Or thoughts regarding it at least. I've got: Sun (Sag) Squ (Vir) Midheaven - orb: -3:04' - power: 11.10
• Sun aspecting Mercury does NOT promise marriage just a close/initmate relationship. She stated that this is because Mercury is faster than the Sun, fleeting, and that's what her experience holds. Makes sense. But does same rule/logic apply for Moon aspects with Mercury in a male's natal chart?
• Has anyone compared aspects in your chart for a relationship between the partner involved? Any correlation? If i'm correct in deducing the proper relationship markers in time and aspect an example of this would be that in my chart relationship with "Saturn Man" relationship is Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Mercury - orb: +6:08' - power: 4.67) vs. in his chart I would be identified as: Moon (Can) Tri (Sco) Uranus - orb: +3:19' - power: 6.15)
• Are the aspects for natal promise in order? Larger orbs first or more power last? That's one of the ways I deduced which relationship I may be amongst the other aspects.

I was told that I would have three main relationships. 1 with a Mar's man, the second with a Saturn guy, and lastly marry a man with Pluto aspects. When I saw my natal chart's transits, low and behold I had three aspects with the Sun. My last Sun aspect however is with Midhaven so I'm sort of concerned about that. Someone opined that my Uranus aspect may substitute but that doesn't flow with the theory right? So am I always a bridesmaid never a bride? =)

My aspects are as follows:

1: Sun (Sag) Squ (Vir) Midheaven - orb: -3:04' - power: 11.10
2: Moon (Cap) Tri (Vir) Midheaven - orb: -0:43' - power: 10.93
3: Mercury (Sag) Con (Sag) Uranus - orb: +0:20' - power: 9.52
4: Uranus (Sag) Con (Sco) Ascendant - orb: +2:49' - power: 8.96
5: Mercury (Sag) Con (Sco) Ascendant - orb: +3:09' - power: 8.25
6: Mars (Vir) Squ (Sag) Neptune - orb: +2:03' - power: 5.66
7: Venus (Cap) Tri (Vir) Mars - orb: +1:00' - power: 5.14
8: Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Mercury - orb: +6:08' - power: 4.67
9: Venus (Cap) Squ (Lib) Pluto - orb: -2:59' - power: 4.59
10: Neptune (Sag) Sex (Lib) Pluto - orb: -1:56' - power: 4.07
11: Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Uranus - orb: +6:28' - power: 3.83
12: Venus (Cap) Squ (Lib) Saturn - orb: +3:52' - power: 3.58
13: Jupiter (Sco) Con (Lib) Pluto - orb: +4:36' - power: 3.43
14: Pluto (Lib) Squ [Can] Node - orb: +0:59' - power: 3.05
15: Saturn (Lib) Sex (Sag) Neptune - orb: +4:55' - power: 1.08
16: Saturn (Lib) Con (Lib) Pluto - orb: +6:51' - power: 0.21

we are all visual people and need to see charts rather than data
and too much data is confusing!

Welcome to the World of Astrology!
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14561

Re: Need some education: Which charts to use when?
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17514

Beginning to Study Astrology
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154469&postcount=10
http://www.soulhealing.com/tutorialwest.htm
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/astrology-glyphs.php

How to attach a chart as thumbnail
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12126

what members like to see in a thread – help forum
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25930

What Astrology Can and Can Not Do
http://www.ofspirit.com/susanmiller1.htm
http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/whatastrologycandoforyou.html
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_kdvalue_e.htm

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=234549&postcount=7
Perhaps you should read this thread entitled: astrology predicts meanings, not events
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17546&page=2

In the beginning of Liz Greene's (famous prolific author on astrology), “Astrology for Lover's” book there is a good chapter on What astrology can and can't do.
“Astrology is baffling because it works. So, what in fact is a horoscope?
What it's not is a way of foretelling the future, or of determining whether that tall dark stranger will turn up next week. To put it briefly the horoscope is a map of the psyche of the individual. it's a kind of blueprint, a seed plan, a model of the energies and drives which make up a person. Because it's calculated precisely for time and place, it's unique, unlike the sun sign column. Even identical twins are born at least four minutes apart, and in four minutes the picture has shifted.”


“Astrology can be used to help you in many ways. It can reveal damaging behavioral patterns or forewarn you of upcoming challenges. It can help you pinpoint latent talents you may possess and provide you with specific hints on how to best develop them. Astrology can also point out expansive, rewarding trends that are coming up and assist you in figuring out how to take advantage of them before they fade. Finally, astrology is an excellent means to determine the perfect timing for certain actions.” http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/whatastrologycandoforyou.html

“The beauty of astrology is that it will help you to always be in complete control of your life. Astrology is not fortune telling: but it is a recognition that we have free will. We know we are not controlled by the planets, but the planets do create a certain atmospheres of constriction or ease, that keeps us on our toes. Alas, you cannot blame the planets and say, for example, Saturn made me do it! The few times I have said this to an audience, most people laugh it does sound funny.”
http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/whatastrologycandoforyou.html

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by la dona

I also added my natal chart w/transits & progressions as of today, if it would be of any help.

you should have done this earlier and started your own thread

With venus square saturn is makes someone cautious reserved and having to work hard for financial recompense. It also shows feeling of being unloved or uncherished from early chidlhood.

Venus square Pluto is looking/needing 'intense' and venus square jupiter shows you go over the top with romance when it arrives, thereby probably frightening prospective partners away.

Your Moon (emotions) only has one aspect square to saturn again showing one parent had to endure financial hardships in childhood and poss finding it hard to show emotions

I was told that I would have three main relationships. 1 with a Mar's man, the second with a Saturn guy, and lastly marry a man with Pluto aspects. When I saw my natal chart's transits, low and behold I had three aspects with the Sun. My last Sun aspect however is with Midhaven so I'm sort of concerned about that. Someone opined that my Uranus aspect may substitute but that doesn't flow with the theory right? So am I always a bridesmaid never a bride? =)

You have calculated your chart using the default on astro.com of placidus and I use Equal House system and am a modern astrologer. Lots of people that come into Astrology get their free charts calculated at www.astro.com and the default ‘house system’ used is Placidus and think that’s just the norm and all that there is……..BUT that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can change the default on astro.com in Extended Chart selection to Equal house and a few more.

Throughout the forums but mainly in natal astrology there are two main branches Placidus (unequal size houses) v Equal House (whereby each house is same size) but lots more……. For more information on these go here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(astrology)#Description
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm

It's only with study and research will you be able to assess where your planets are deposited and in which houses... thus see which 'glove fits'
Jupiter and pluto would be considered operating in 12th house, saturn in 11th can show few friends, and then of an older generation type.

First marriage/partner is 7th, 2nd partner/marriage 9th and 3rd = 11th house. Cancer rules 9th Equal house and moon is exalted in taurus and placed in 2nd house naturally ruled by taurus. This places additonal emphasis on possessions, earning and spending your own finances etc.
Ruler of 7th in 2nd shows you want a partner with similara beliefs and values as yourself and poss could help you boost your earning capabilities.

Prog sun in 2years time will be conj moon and a whole new phrase/life plan should unfold for you.

Sun conj Uranus/mercury shows a real rebellious streak and liking to shock people around you occasionally. This makes you more Aquarius/uranus and in first house 'Aries type, very direct and to the point
Now although aspects to Asc and MC are valid in these circumstances and what you are asking are not. Asc & MC are outlets, sensitive points, not planets

Have you researched and analysed your mars neptune square as I see this the most problematic...



Mars square Neptune

The square between Mars and Neptune suggests that your natural tendencies to assert yourself may cause confusion and turmoil in your life. You may experience ups and downs in your feelings and ambitions. Vague or subconscious reasons prompting you to act may conflict with your sensitive feelings. This aspect stimulates interest in spiritual issues and produces a degree of psychic energy, even spiritual delusion. It's often associated with sexual anxieties, repressed sexual urges, or some degree of deception associated with sexual affairs.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/marsaspects.html#masne

This aspect is one that suggests you may do best when you are alone. You should perhaps work by yourself or with as few people as possible. Preferably, you should work in a field such as medicine where you can satisfy a need to provide human service and remain detached. Develop your abilities to plan and control, and be more willing to accept responsibility when something goes wrong.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/marsaspects.html#masne
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/m...neaspects.html