Anything happened to you when Pluto=Asc/Mh ?

[Tora]

. . . . . .

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by Tora

Hi,

Natally, I don't have a planet on Asc/Mh midpoint. When I read this article and found out that it is supposed to be a very powerful point which could change one's life forever. So I went to look for the day I was nearly killed and guess what? Tr Pluto was dead (no pun intended!) on my Asc/Mh and needless to say, from having a colourful social life to becoming recluse, it changed my life completely.

Just curious to know if anyone had similar or good experience with this Asc/Mh midpoint?

I have my chart ruler Uranus conj Sun/moon midpoint and mercury conj Asc/MC midpoint. These two are the most important as far as midpoints go. They can be very sensitive points, espec to progressions, transits and solar arcs. To watch/research how these points play out make a note of the degree for example my sun/moon = 3' 05" taururs, but any at that degree in 'fixed' will be considered same as conj, square or opposition. Same with Asc/MC being 'outlet or exit points' for planets energies. So although I have mercury retrograde natally, having this conj Asc/MC I've always known that communications, written, verbal, relating, analysing are important to me but in practical way (taurus merc)

http://www.cafeastrology.com/astrolo...midpoints.html

http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/midpoints/index.php

http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/midpoints.html

http://www.astrocollege.com/campus/l..._Midpoints.pdf

[starlink]

Hi Tora, that is interesting. I can imagine that it impressed you to see this exactness.
I have my natal Neptune exactly conjunct that Asc/MC midpoint,at 8°16' Libra.
I did not have anything shocking happening to me at those times.

Pluto transited it 3 times, Nov 13 1974, first time
March 16 1975, second time
Sept. 10 1975, 3rd time

Did your accident happen on the first hit or one of the others?

I suppose that other transits of heavy planets especially, could also bring the same sort of important happenings. The Asc.-MC Midpoint is of course always connected to both the physical person and his position in society and when a planet transits it, it will undoubtly trigger both. Pluto of course, known for transformative effects, will probably have the heaviest impact but I think Uranus going over that point can also bring great changes which affect us very much. Worth keeping an eye on it! On the 22nd of this month, so in two days, I will have tr. Venus going over that point. Mmm... sounds exciting! Too bad it only lasts a day.

On the 4th of October 2010 however, it will be Saturn, staying there for exactly 8 days, then moving on to 9°. That to me does not sound all too pleasant, but we'll see! Neptune rules my 5th house and I do hope nothing serious will happen to one of my children.....

I will read your link because I am interested in the orb of influence as well.

In 1974 December 15 my son was born, but he was 2nd child and I consider 1st child to be more of a very special experience. It was about 1 month after tr.Pluto conjuncted that point, dont know if that had anything to do with it. It did not change my life, only made it more busy of course with two kids.

Thanks for bringing this up!

STarlink

[starlink]

Oh yes, squares and other aspects of Pluto and co. could of course also influence that midpoint.

And on January 21, 2012 transiting Pluto will exactly square my Asc.//MC......

[gemini59]

On the sun/moon it is right at my venus/mars conjunction so it is a very senstive point. haven't taken much of a notice of the ASC/MCand in fact have not calculated it until today. I have discovered that it is at 19'32 Aquarius. Jupiter will be there in a bit so I can report back on that one. It will be around Nov. 20th.. Its forward motion hit it In April 3rd. There may have been some legal issues with my daughter about that time. I need to keep an astrological diary.

[EJ53]

Originally Posted by Tora

...EJ53 - it's interesting to hear about your pluto transit on your Asc but we are talking about midpoint of Asc & Mh.

Sorry Tora......off-topic post deleted.

Pluto danced over this mid-point from my 7th to 8th birthday......In the UK Education system, this was the year in which schoolchildren were "streamed" on the basis of future academic potential......setting me on a path I've followed ever since then.

Interestingly, SA Pluto crossed this mid-point from age 12 to 14......The three years in which the UK Education system then streamed schoolchildren on the basis of those who would and those who would not be sitting the General Certificate of Education examinations at age 16.

[Note :- This Mid-point is exactly semi-square to my Asc and MC, as they are exactly 90 degrees apart......So, my deleted post may have had some relevance after all......(I passed a significant professional examination and my first child was born when Pluto hovered over my Asc, semi-squaring mid-point of Asc/MC)]

[Lila]

Hi Tora and everyone,
The Asc/Mh midpoint is the second most important in overall prominence at any natal Horoscope. The logical reason is the fact that this point connects the two most significant angles of the natal chart bringing the two together. This generally means that the personal identity is linked with the public image to form a symbiotic- and a synergistic relationship.
Regardless of their inherent differences, the Ascendant/Midheaven midpoint represents an area of the chart where our personal and public sides can come together and figuratively reach a happy medium. If a Focal Point is within orb of the midpoint, it suggests and identifies a significant way for the two angles to peacefully and productively.
To sum up, the focal point of the Asc/Mc midpoint picture may act as a virtual bridge between the Ascendant and Midheaven allowing an interplay of different motivations.
At Dora’s example she has not a Focal Point yet Transits and Solar Arcs ( I don’t use anymore progressions) to that sensitive point, call to mind that in that period of time the individual may be involved in power struggles or there may be an intense focus on self-empowerment, gaining a new perspective, causing you a personal transformation. If you look into the house Pluto rules in your Chart you can see that it rules the 11 th house that is to say the friendly relationships. ( …)
Lila Viana
www.astrologylanguage.com

[starlink]

Lila, you said:

a significant way for the two angles to peacefully and productively...to do what???

I think you did not finish this sentence.


[QUOTEs by Lila]
If a Focal Point is within orb of the midpoint... (you mean a planet maybe?)

the focal point of the Asc/Mc midpoint picture

At Dora’s example she has not a Focal Point
[/QUOTE]

What do you consider to be the Focal Point here?
I do not understand what you mean by this. I thought the Midpoint itself is the Focal Point, so how come Tora does not have a Focal Point?

I am a bit confused

Starlink

[Lila]

Dear Starlink,

Thank you for asking. What I meant when describing the Ascendant/Midheaven midpoint is the following:
Whenever a Focal Point is within orb (2.30 maximum) of the Asc/Mh midpoint, is suggests and identifies a significant way for the two angles to peacefully and productively coexist, whether they form a mutually beneficial alliance or instead play creatively on their collective diversity.
Convention has determined that the right-hand side of the equation is always the Focal Point not the Midpoint itself. A midpoint is the combination and merge of two planets or angles into tangible expressions, that are profoundly useful in the analysis of the Horoscope.
In this unique technique there are three distinct components represented by each midpoint picture. The usual way to express and describe these three-way interactions is for example the equation below:
Sun ( This is the focal Point) = Mercury/Neptune ( these two are in fact the midpoint) ;The full equation is called Midpoint picture.
Thus to discover each midpoint picture you should use the 90º Midpoint sort. It is the appropriate way to find the focal points to the midpoints.
Finally, keywords to the focal point it is “ what can be accomplished “ and for the combination of the two planets or angles “ how it can be accomplished”.
If you haven’t yet experienced the subtle yet dramatic power of midpoint pictures those same discoveries await you.
Midpoint pictures not being a static description it captures the dynamic common sense of astrological synthesis.
Concerning to Tora ‘s chart she hasn’t a specific planet or point linked to the midpoint within the given orb. The closest midpoint picture to the Asc/Mh is = Mars/Asc ( not a single planet or point).
I am deeply thoughtful on teaching this powerful technique through my website.
I hope that helps you!
Lila Viana
www.astrologylanguage.com

[EJ53]

Originally Posted by Lila

......to discover each midpoint picture you should use the 90º Midpoint sort. It is the appropriate way to find the focal points to the midpoints.

Hi Lila,

Can you please confirm that my understanding of this is (or is not) correct, using the following example :-

I have Jupiter at 0.56 degrees Capricorn and Ascendant at 29.56 degrees Virgo......So, Jupiter/Asc mid-point = 15.30 degrees Scorpio.

My Mercury is at 15.0 degrees Scorpio.

So, is this a Mid-point picture of Mercury = Jupiter/Asc.....?

And (if it is) why is the "focal point" different from the "mid-point" (since I would use transits and solar arcs to the latter in exactly the same way as you apply them to focal points).

Apologies if I am misunderstanding you here Lila, but I am trying to ascertain whether there is something new for me to learn here...or whether you are using different terminolgy for a technique that I might already be familiar with.
EJ

[Lila]

Hi EJ,
From my point of view that’s incorrect because you are just considering trines and sextiles. With this new and modern technique by using 90º Midpoint picture sort the software computer will find just conjunctions, squares and oppositions, in other words the tensional structures in your life development. Without tension there is really no motivation to change, grow or evolve. This 90º Midpoint sort visually compresses the entire 360º of the horoscope into just 90º-
By doing so, all cardinal, all fixed, and all mutable signs are grouped together and arranged. Their close proximity in the list highlights and emphasizes the tensions and adds to the significance of the resultant midpoint pictures.( by conjunction square or opposition ).
All the Best,
Lila Viana

[Lila]

Hi Tora,

It is exacly as you wrote except the fact that when Pluto hit your Asc/Mh midpoint ( Pluto=Asc/Mh) you had that powerful struggle.

Which house rules Pluto at your chart???! the 11 house... which is arena dedicated to friendship, or friendly companions.

The midpoint picture is precisely describing what really happened to you.

Look into in this way :Pluto, ruler of your 11 th house ( friendship fellowship etc), arrived at this significant midpoint and you were able to deal with the situation changing your entire life direction.

Clear and crystal astrological symbology!

All my best,
Lila Viana

[gemini59]

Hmm so my Asc at 5'40 Aries and MC at 3'23 Capricorn gives me a mid point of 19'32 Aquarius. Jupiter rules my 9th house and is now transiting at 17' 20 Aquarius thus I should now be looking at some significant change in 9th house related concepts ie religion, legal, education or state of mind that will change me forever? And this 19'32 or 17 '00 can be found at the corners of the chart so to speak?
This somewhat makes sense as I have been going through a profound struggle with my thoughts and how to handle a situation....hmmmm.
Does this sound correct?
I guess when Neptune traveled that area some time ago that should have been a very significant moment too...
and of course Chiron or now also saturn in Leo? Scorpio and too Taurus. Lots to think about and no pun intended. Always excited to learn something new. Thank you,

[gemini59]

My natal jupiter is in Scorpio in the 8th. Would a transit by Jupiter to the ASC/MC reflect the intensity of the natal Jupiter? I wonder as my feelings and thoughts have a certain scorpion tendency? That doesn't make sense in a way though right now natal jupiter is being transited by square by neptune. Maybe that is the 'awakening' feeling I am having.

[gemini59]

Well thanks for the upside. since my sun/moon midpoint at 7' 43 Leo I have a bit of wait. Saturn won't square that till it hits Scorpio. When is that?
Now progressed sun hit that spot and nada happened ....of course I was looking for fire works but nothing.
Progressed moon will hit that in about 7 months so maybe
Yes, jupiter has been more philosophic.

[EJ53]

Originally Posted by Lila

...From my point of view that’s incorrect because you are just considering trines and sextiles.

Thanks for the clarification Lila/Tora/Cassandra......I get it now.

[Lila]

Hello
Keep in mind that when using midpoint pictures they very neatly support synthesis of three or more different measured positions whereas simple aspects synthesize two variables. When interpreting contacts with a focal point- by transit or Solar Arc think carefully of what is written below.
Think of Midpoint pictures as a child involved with parent 1 and parent 2:
Child= mother/father. It can’t be otherwise and stands as a statement;
Child= child/mother (???) Child=child/father (???) child/mother or child father would suffice.
There are several telling natal midpoint pictures that reinforce the major measurements presented in the chart.
When considering transits and SA never take into account planets or points which are also included in the Midpoint pictures. For example:
You are dealing with a Jupiter transit to your Jupiter/Pluto. This is obviously a ineffective measurement because as I explained earlier you have to work with three or more distinct planets/points.
Regards,
Lila Viana

[EJ53]

Originally Posted by Lila

...Think of Midpoint pictures as a child involved with parent 1 and parent 2

I'm not quite "getting it" again, Lila......If (say) Venus is transitting my Jupiter/Asc mid-point......which is the child, parent 1 and parent 2?

Child=mother/father. It can’t be otherwise and stands as a statement;......Child=child/mother (???)......Child=child/father (???)......child/mother or child father would suffice.

And I'm really struggling to understand this part, Lila......Can you please clarify with an example?.....(Perhaps, but not necessarily, using my Venus transit to Jupiter/Asc mid-point)

Thanks.

EJ

[Vinyasa]

Originally Posted by Lila

Hello
Keep in mind that when using midpoint pictures they very neatly support synthesis of three or more different measured positions whereas simple aspects synthesize two variables. When interpreting contacts with a focal point- by transit or Solar Arc think carefully of what is written below.
Think of Midpoint pictures as a child involved with parent 1 and parent 2:
Child= mother/father. It can’t be otherwise and stands as a statement;
Child= child/mother (???) Child=child/father (???) child/mother or child father would suffice.
There are several telling natal midpoint pictures that reinforce the major measurements presented in the chart.
When considering transits and SA never take into account planets or points which are also included in the Midpoint pictures. For example:
You are dealing with a Jupiter transit to your Jupiter/Pluto. This is obviously a ineffective measurement because as I explained earlier you have to work with three or more distinct planets/points.
Regards,
Lila Viana

If I understand it correct, you mean that whatever makes part of the equation after the "=", cannot be part of the equation also on the other part, either transiting or progressed. This is why Cassandra got no fireworks in Sun=Sun/Moon [and under this light, should not expect to see again in Moon=Sun/Moon], right?

[gemini59]

Oh wow...thanks Vinyasa...I so did not get that till you explained it. I knew there had to be some explanation. The e sun and moon will progress to the Venus/uranus midpoint in 10 months. The sun is about there now. Does that count LOL I have no idea what that means!.
Gosh with so many midpoints I guess it would be a good idea to focus on the important ones and the aspects that create the most energy.

[EJ53]

Originally Posted by Vinyasa

...whatever makes part of the equation after the "=", cannot be part of the equation also on the other part, either transiting or progressed....

I get that, V......but the child/parent1/parent 2 relationship puzzles me.

Are you able to clarify the latter for me with an example?

EJ

[Vinyasa]

Originally Posted by EJ53

I get that, V......but the child/parent1/parent 2 relationship puzzles me.

Are you able to clarify the latter for me with an example?

EJ

I found also the family metaphor rather confusing, because it creates family nodes and subordinating connotations, ie. there are two "parents" who create a "child", and this I do not think it is our case.... So I changed the context - just for my understanding - in mathematical terms, resulting into an equation with three variables, let's say x, y, z, to get:
x=y/z

I have the feeling that Lila simply wants to say that
x ≠ y ≠ z

and that you cannot have an equation where
x=x/y
because this is then void, even when eg.
x²=x/y, whereas x² (= x transiting)
or x³=x/y, whereas x³ (= x derivative, such as SA).

The only case actually where you can see
x=x/y,
is in synastry.
In which case you can see also
x/y=x/y.

Turning back to astrological terms now:
your example Venus=Jupiter/Asc
whereas "=" can be any of square/opposition/conjunction, makes perfect sense (though I don't know which )
While the example of Cassandra
Sun=Sun/Moon
is void, because a transiting or progressed/solar arced planet cannot trigger a calculated point to which he contributes from natal placement.
Meanwhile, this is perfectly ok
Moon=Sun/Moon
for my Moon at 26° Leo squaring someone's Sun/Moon at 23°Scorpio...
Whereas - theoretically - I should see some "fireworks" - to paraphrase Cassandra - with
Sun/Moon=Sun/Moon
provided that the second person would have Sun/Moon at 29° Gemini (like me) or else Virgo/Pisces/Sagi...

This is how i have understood this statement, however it could be that I have misinterpreted or skipped something.

[EJ53]

Originally Posted by Vinyasa

I found also the family metaphor rather confusing, because it creates family nodes and subordinating connotations, ie. there are two "parents" who create a "child", and this I do not think it is our case....

I get your very clear mathematical explanation of the need to avoid "double-counting" the influence of planets contained in the natal mid-point picture......but, I do think Lila is also saying something else with her reference to child/parent1/parent2.

However, she doesn't explain it on her website and hasn't come back with an explanation here......so maybe it's copyrighted by Noel Tyl, whom she appears to have studied with.

EJ

[Vinyasa]

Originally Posted by EJ53

However, she doesn't explain it on her website and hasn't come back with an explanation here......

Then hopefully she will come back, because I have been reading the statement again and again and can't figure out what else I am missing...

From my side, turning to the original question, Pluto=Asc/MC, I have Asc/MC at 17° Cancer and Sun/Moon at 29° Gemini.
With Pluto=Sun/Moon "I saw fireworks" of all colours and shapes, included job, career, income, philosophy, lifestyle, friends, health, relationships. I can't attribute the full reconstruction to Pluto, some structures were necessarily dissolved due to Saturn transiting 12+1H, however I had throughout 2,5 years a very intense feeling of endings, the moment something was happening I knew it was "THE END"... Most probably the fact that I have the critical degree of 29° Gemini has added to the flavour. Overall now I start to enjoy the idea of how we are given the possibility to raise from our ashes, to start a new life: it is actually like a rebirth, you have to reinvent structures and people and places and follow a new path, find a new philosophy to embrace the truth. For Pluto=Asc/MC I have to wait until 2016, I think...

[Lila]

Hello,

I’ ve been very busy. Basically what I wanted to state concerning the child= father/mother expressions certainty was trying to demonstrate it in pure mathematical terms.

We have distinctly three points or planets. (There is no metaphorical expression, just keep everything simple and organized. Astrology could be uncomplicated when it is well applied.

If you had read carefully my previous posts you would be able to understand this. I always said it was an equation. An equation is composed by different variables working at a mutual goal.

Here it goes what is said previously just in case you did not notice it:

“ Finally, keywords to the focal point it is “ what can be accomplished “ and for the combination of the two planets or angles “ how it can be accomplished “….

Therefore when I was referring to child-father-mother I was describing you that all the elements were different. They are connected by transiting or SA activities and they provide us much more detailed information/message over a Horoscope on a specific topic.

With regard to your example of Venus = Jupiter/Asc I’ll present shortly how to manage it:

a)Venus, in astrological terms is traditionally concerned with romances, art appreciation, the social, the aesthetics etc, etc.

b)Jupiter/ Asc, normally it is identified with trusting and/ or showing off personal abilities and talents/ with the seeking of exposure to build confidence and so on.

The house rulerships they maintain in the Horoscope will define the scenes of actions the individual need to perform in order to get what is defined in the focal point (always in perfect consonance with the other astrological measurements).

At first I highly recommend you to locate in your chart your Sun/Moon midpoint and the horoscope’s house where it is situated. The second step is to recall significant events that occurred at your personal life (romantic/familiar etc). The third step is to check out the Sun/Moon.

You will note that through transits as well as through SA motions that midpoint is certainty active.

Finally ascertain the house the planets rule or co-rule in the chart.

I'll post on my website more detailed information.

Lila Viana