Free Will and Destiny in Electional Astrology

[Radu]

I've created this topic for comments around the issues discussed in this article:
http://astrologyweekly.com/astrology...ll-destiny.php

Free Will and Destiny in Electional Astrology

First, how would you define the Electional Astrology?

This is an almost childish question, because everyone knows it is the astrological art of electing the most propitious moment for performing an action.

How does it work?

Another real simple question: the client comes to astrologer with the intent of improving his/her chances of success by starting a certain venture at the right time and asks the astrologer to calculate the most auspicious moment. The astrologer takes a look at the natal chart, then goes to the ephemeris and looks for those astrological positions and aspects that will insure a very good outcome.

Why does it work?

Every event of our lives has its own existence according to the astrological elements that influenced its beginning. Making sure that an event starts under positive astrological influences improves its outcome.

Now, there are some philosophical or metaphysical issues concerning the electional astrology.
Is this a way to alter one's destiny?

Technically, it is. The marriage chart for instance acts like a very powerful trend that influences the entire life. Choosing a different marriage chart equals to choosing a different marriage.

Couldn't it be also a spiritual path? Trying to live in harmony with the Universe, according to its astrological laws, does it really help the person to be more harmonious, or does it just emphasizes the "lazy" side of that person?

There are so many astrologers out there that state that the electional astrology should be used only for the major events of our lives like wedding, changing residence or jobs. There are also astrologers that claim that they prefer not to use astrology in their daily living because it'd be too much asking of it or it'd subdue their lives to the stars or maybe the astrology just doesn't work for them.
This is just a matter of how one looks at astrology. If one sees the astrology as an exterior set of rules, like the driving rules, then it is explainable, but the astrology can become a natural part of life, like the weather.

Free will versus Destiny

Getting to the much-disputed free will versus destiny issue in people's lives, one may wonder couldn't the electional astrology reading be also a part of the destiny?
For it is not rare to find very significant correlations between the natal charts and the electional charts. In my experience, I've seen many times on the elected day & time for a significant event, generally marriage, that there is a wonderful correlation with the natal charts of bride and the groom, as if that day was meant to be their wedding date from the beginning. Couples come and say: "We want to get married next year. Please pick a good marriage date". And from the entire range of days of the next year, on the elected date Venus is conjunct the progressed Moon of the bride and trines the Descendant of the groom, although this was not a primary element considered when I elected that day. I've just noticed it afterwards, and said to myself "wow, that's nice!" Or, on other occasions, for instance, I noticed another very special astrological element such as Juno (the asteroid of marriage) conjunct the Ascendant of one of the spouses.

In order to explain this phenomenon, we may consider the marriage chart both as an electional chart (from astrologer's perspective) and as an event chart (from everybody else's point of view). Therefore the marriage chart must incorporate characteristics of both. Ultimately, it is not hazard that the bride and the groom consulted an astrologer before setting their marriage date, this must have been part of the divine plan for their lives called destiny. Then again, what is free will and what is destiny in our lives?

I think that everything that happens is both free will and destiny. We live in this Universe as biological or spiritual beings, as you prefer, therefore we must obey to its rules. This is our "destiny". It is what we do with these rules that is called "free will".

However, every one of us has his/her own destiny. We are bound to some life patterns, according to the natal chart. Therefore, we have different degrees and forms of "free will"...

Please, comment the above ideas, if you wish...

My two cents-Personally I believe that everything appearing to our senses and mind is a result of our karma. We have free will only in our reaction to it. There is sight sound feel taste smell and thought karma as well as environment - physical body karma but they are all manifesting from the king of karma which is our mind. We also have free will to purify our karma through purifying our mind stream but to be able to do this also requires good karma-past karmic seeds which ripen into the ability and wish to do it.

[baker]

Radu: Cool new sites, thanks for bringing them in!

[Elianah]

I am not going to try to define electional astrology because I am not that well-versed in the subject to have an intelligent discussion on it.

I would like to talk about the following quote:

I think that everything that happens is both free will and destiny. We live in this Universe as biological or spiritual beings, as you prefer, therefore we must obey to its rules. This is our "destiny". It is what we do with these rules that is called "free will".

However, every one of us has his/her own destiny. We are bound to some life patterns, according to the natal chart. Therefore, we have different degrees and forms of "free will"...

For myself, I live in this universe as both a biological and spiritual being. I do know people who do just live as biological beings and others who choose to be spiritual beings who are fighting their way out of physical incarnation. This always makes me wonder why these spiritual beings chose to incarnate in the first place if they are so desperate to escape it once they are physicalized.

As a spiritual being I know I chose to incarnate this lifetime to release some emotional baggage so I could put my knowledge-experience-skills base to use for the greatest and highest good of all. I think that is one of the things my natal chart shows.

I also believe that my natal chart shows how can I martial the energies of this universe to bring forth those special, unique gifts that are to be used on this planet at this time. I do not believe that my natal chart predicts my destiny, only shows how I blend and use the energies of this universe and dimensional space to forward my evolution and the evolution of others.

I don't believe in being bound to a destiny, whether that is in a chart or a family "destiny" of being a lawyer, doctor, priest, etc. Binding implies something that is forced upon the person. However, bindings can be broken. What an astrologer might see as "destiny" in a natal chart might not come true because the astrologer does not know how the client has been blending the chart's energies up until that time or how the flow of the energies might change based upon the new information.

For me, the idea of destiny always feels like it is something preordained to come true and there is nothing that can change it. Yet the only constant in life is change until the spiritual being vacates the physical body. Destiny can be changed, and if that is so, then it is not destiny.

That brings us to the question of whether rules are to be considered destiny. Rules are structures (good ole Saturn) that the spiritual being constructs to live on the physical plane. Right now as a physical being I cannot walk through a wall because I cannot physically match my vibration to the wall's in order to walk through it. That is a physical rule for this lifetime. Yet, as I evolve and develop through using my natal chart, progressed, solar arc and transit energies, a few lifetimes from now I may have the ability to choose to match my physical vibration to walk through a wall and then return to my normal physical vibration. That rule thus has changed, albeit at a slower pace.

Rules are constructs spiritual beings develop in order to live in the physical plane to the fullest extent possible, in my opinion. They do not constitute destiny because rules can be changed, even in one lifetime.

Now these are my views and I don't expect people to agree with them. I do hope that it will spur some interesting, thoughtful and thought-provoking discussions. My views are right for me and that is the way I share them. Find what is useful for yourself and jettison the rest.

[Radu]

I think I understand what you mean. You're saying that as you live your life as a spiritual being, you consider the otherwise restrictive rules that apply to anyone like steps in your evolution rather than destiny.
It's like the old saying "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" - in this case the concept of Destiny or Free Will is also in the eye of the beholder.
That's nice !

Thanks for taking the time to share your views!

[Springup]

to me, there is free will and destiny. There are some stops in life you are destined to walk but its your free will to decide how you want to walk to your destined points and what experiences you want to have during the walk. Ultimately, there are some stops in life you can't avoid and it is your destiny.

[Elianah]

Exactly Radu, exactly!

Thank you, Radu, for this new topic and hi to you, Elianah and SG writing about free will!

I am a student of I Ching. I am using 4 books, the latest is Carol K. Anthony and Hanna Moog's I Ching, The Oracle of the Cosmic Way (ICHINGBOOKS). When I met them and said their book was "the best"... they said to me, "But, it's not the book....
it's the inner truth in your own heart that guides you..... get it?!" :shock:

I could spend all day looking at astrological aspects and consulting I Ching and then, throughout the day, noticing the feelings and often defensive thoughts a n d "self"-protective attitudes
generated by my ego all day long
as I try not to open
my heart to being guided.

Removing the "poison arrows" (which are wounds and mis-perceptions about our own nature....) that are buried deep in the deepest bog-muck of our psyche.....that is a life-long process of becoming one in harmony with the Cosmic Harmony. We have to find them and yank them outta there to be free!

That's what I understand by having the ability to overcome "fate" --

and, in a way, the gift of astrology, and of our ability to consult the
I Ching and tap into our Inner Truth, is the path of freedom on this physical plane. By the lights interacting on Earth with our evolving consciousness....our hearts open to the truth.

Life is our opportunity to dispel the control of "collective ego" and of our tricky, demonic, individual ego-ness.

There is great pressure on us from that Collective Ego.

This morning my new housemate, the midwife, said that she and her sister were talking on the phone last night about STAR WARS--the movies--and the theme of subtle control of the masses through fear....

Unlike the "mind controlling" paralysis generated by the power of the Collective Ego, the energy of "anxiety" we may feel now is different from that!

(I can't always completely understand how fear/paralysis or mind control or Collective Ego works, but I know that
I respond to my friends, family and neighbors' attitudes sometimes not from a place of love. And often it is true that their words and actions are themselves tainted by the experience of growing up in socities controlled for many generations by Church, government, patriarchy, corporate/military......)

So this is what freedom-choosing feels like--it's very moving.

Maybe "the warrior's wound" (that Chiron!)....

actually keeps us alive and free.

Maybe it's that "anxiety of being human and dancing in the fast current"

that is the heart of Chiron's tutoring.....so that we feel what it is to be a

warrior and NOT be paralyzed by fear.

So, being free--it is sometimes easy, sometimes very difficult, but ultimately it is ours to choose.

The impetus to overcome the mind control of fate is especially
active for us americano/as who like to
say we are a certain way (for example: rebellious, psychic, entrepreneurial, etc.).....but fail to really look at our shadow ops:

Maybe, we americano/as are somehow blocked from jumping
into the movement on an equal basis with other freedom fighters.

I offer this information as a free gift. We may choose to pursue.....

C1

[Buai]

...I feel that Free Will and Destiny are like the 2 sides of a set of scales.

We are each born with a unique 'Horoscope', a particular and very specific 'slice' of our Solar System, relative to our Galaxy, as it literally hurtles through the Milky Way at the speed of a bullet.
It reflects various qualities, and it describes numerous potentialities.
Within that 'horoscopic frame'...we have Free Will.
And that 'frame' is an evolutionary consequence (Karma) of the use or abuse of Free Will within previous 'frames' (horoscopes) journeyed through from past lives, and backward into 'relative eternity'.
Actually, 'an eternal now', but I'll get to that later.
The use and application of our Free Will within those 'frames' determines the qualities of the next ('now') frame we inherit, as a consequence.
(I hope this isn't too heady, it's easier to describe in person) :?

Did we abuse our Free Will in the past, or did we use our Free Will for the good of 'the whole'? (= every being on the planet, and the planet itself)
The highest potential use of Free Will is to the benefit of 'the whole', and not to the personal ego.

Suppose that being the case, as we journey on through this life with a 'personal frame' (horoscope) within which we have Free Will, the Transiting Planets 'alter and tweek' that 'frame' to inspire and sometimes challenge our sense of Self, in the hope of expanding and evolving our awareness and consciousness beyond it's boundaries for the purpose of eventually establishing Freedom in Enlightenment.
Ie, true divine Free Will, inline with Gods, not ours, Gods!

We can transcend the 'Frame that binds', but that doesn't occur just because we want it to. Thats the ego.
It occurs over lifetimes of spiritual discipline in preparation for 'Grace'.
Priests and Monks being a great point in reference, they do not feel they have the need to act out the 'Freedoms' we take for granted and generally abuse (as a collective) in order to experience a far greater sense of Freedom and Free Will than most of us are yet to know. (?)
Destiny is tied into the same principle, it depends on what we 'need' to bring us closer to true Freedom, or God.
And that is relative to how we used or abused 'Freedom' in the past. (past lives or here)
While I think of it. 'Freedom' and the sense of 'Free Will' is a state of mind, not an action...
Freedom, or Free Will, is relative. Destiny is relative...to that.
We are 'Free', to co-create it...

We are all in these bags of blood and bone for one reason, To Evolve!.
There is no difference between a biological being, and a spiritual being.
We are all spiritual beings occupying biological bodies.
If someone wants to walk through a wall, leave the body for a while, and do it, it is possible here and now.
We are not these biological bodies, we are merely using them to evolve, because they have a nervous system, the most advanced computer in creation!
Without one, we don't evolve. If we don't evolve, there is no point to being here.

That we perceive ourselves as seperate from one another, is the greatest illusion.
We are One!
Duality is an illusion, it's an invention created by the human condition to justify our apparent differences, and maintain separation.
Born of fear.

Time is another illusion. Time/Space is a hoax!
Time is the measurement of Space...It takes X amount of Time to travel X distance in Space.

Ever noticed how time seems to speed up as you get older, as your metabolism slows down?
Ommmmmmeditation really makes time fly right?
Relaxing holidays always fly by too fast.

Alternatively, remember when you were 7 years old and the next weekend took a lifetime to come around? Your Birthday even longer?
In a car accident for eg, your metabolism speeds right up, and time and images go in s l o w __________ m o t i o n . . .
Imagine approaching your last breath for a minute.
Your metabolism gradually slows down to the point of stopping (due to death). As that occurs time speeds up relative to the speed of your metabolism slowing down, images flash by faster and faster.
In the end, as your metabolism nearly stops, images go by at the speed of light. We have all heard the stories of near death experiences.
So, with that in mind.
What happens to space once there is no metabolism, to metabolise time?
(ie, grasshopper!... does the tree that falls in the forest make a sound if there is no-one there to hear it?)
It disolves into 'Oneness'...no separation or duality, and no time.
Presto!
No illusions...only an 'Eternal Now'.
As it is. :P

Oh yeh, was that supposed to be about Electional or Karmic Astrology?
ooopz! got on a roll. :roll:
Thank you for the opportunity to fly for a while Radu.

[Radu]

You flew with your own wings...

Comparing with this vision, astrology seems to fade away or maybe transform into a mystery I cannot understand. Astrology as we know it is very 'worldly', it deals with 'objective' time and space.

And yet, you are so right in your quantum approach... There is no 'quantum astrology', is there, what do you think?

Spiritual, Astrology, Reiki, it's all ONE in the future, everything its connected and astrology is a sort of a "key" since our karma is rulled by planetary positions, and karma is spiritual, and everything energy related is reiki. In the end, we are using all of the esoteric sciences to describe EVERYTHING, and guess what, it makes perfect sense.

You'll see!

[MidnightDevil]

That was me above btw... lol

[Lapis]

This whole Galaxy is a 'Free Will' galaxy meaning that anything and everything goes! We have the ability here to be Masters or mass Murders, whatever we want to experience. Other dimensions and realities are not 'Free Will' areas of learning and are far more focused and specialized.

Prior to reincarnating here on Earth in this 'Free Will' zone, we or rather our Higher Selves decide what We want to focus on in our next lifetime. The larger us or our Self knows what It wants to work on and develop in another incarnation and It projects a much smaller portion of Itself to incarnate at exactly the best hour, minute, second and location etc. to achieve these specific learnings.

So we reincarnate with our individual, totally custom designed, unique kaleidoscope of planetary energetics (Natal Chart) that gives us the very best 'tools' to work with during that particular lifetime. We are naturally armed with exactly what we need to learn exactly what we incarnated for in the first place!

BUT........ Free Will exists allowing us to go to any extreme, to do absolutely anything within our original custom designed blueprint within that incarnation - our Natal Chart design. Now to go one more step with this business, forget about all of this stuff being linear, stretched out over 'time' like 'past-present-future' and visualize many, many, many of these 'incarnations', both physical and non-physical, all happening at the same time because Self and the many little selves are really Multidimensional. Its all happening at the same 'time'!

Numerous different colored, patterened, and vibrating kaleidoscopes or Mandalas all functioning at the same time like different facets (incarnations/selves/Natal Chart patterns) on a huge diamond (Higher Self). We do have complete 'Free Will' but within this larger framework of our individual Natal Charts in each incarnation.

Hey fellow moon worshippers peace to the entirity of man hood in the region of love man...

Wanna come hang in my moon crew smoke some jolly joints and moon dust mixs....


We'll hang out to the beats of the fairy dew band......


Lights and energy will surround your kettle when you make tea. Fear not your angel is guiding you ( to the nut house JOKE PEACE ) :shock:

Have a spank off to help release unkind energy

Love and hope and peace to the moon all jolly worshippers in the house

I use astrology to make my life easier .The chart is my blue print .
The first 90 days of life my unconscious mind took in what I needed to understand and how to use what comes forth in my chart.
I look up things to see what kind of energy I am working with.
We can either react or pre- act we have the choice so there is the free will part of it.
As for destiny the predetermind course of events considered beyond human. I will leave that scope to the beyond human maybe deem it a belief and trusting. I do not know for sure but personally I don't go in for the concept of destiny , maybe someday I will trust it and believe after it has been proven to me. I am more inclined to understand it on a mundane level more so .
If there are things we are predestined for it would have influence in a mundane way or level.
We will all somehow share in it.