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10-18-2009, 09:39 PM
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Saturn Return in a transit hell...
If I didn't have astrology to explain how I'm feeling these days, I'd probably just completely lose my mind. I think I'm posting here mostly for reassurance that there's good reason to feel this terrible, that others have survived such transits...and maybe get advice on how to make the best of this time in purgatory. I have a feeling that I MUST learn now, MUST grow now, or it will all be a huge loss. But still trying to figure out just what it is that I must learn...
Transit Neptune and Chiron have long been conjoining my Sun in my 1st House. Transit Jupiter is opposing my Pluto in my 7th. Transit Pluto has been conjunct my natal Chiron (11th) and is now squaring my Saturn (8th) - and I'm soon to have my 2nd Saturn Return, with an exact Pluto square to my Saturn at the same time.
I'm exhausted in body, mind and spirit. I seem to have only two emotions left - dread and sadness. My mind keeps rehashing my difficult past...feeling only a painful sense of loss. I look to the future with nothing but dread. Lacking any motivation whatsoever, just want to stay in bed all day, but my dreams are so dark and gloomy that even that is not an escape. I'm thankful that I still have to pull myself together and go to work or I might never leave the house.
Frankly, I'm afraid of what's coming as the orbs get tighter...when transit Saturn and Pluto are exactly square to each other in mid-November, they'll be smack on my natal Saturn (1LIB30)...scares the #@%& out of me.
Thanks in advance for any helpful words.
Byron
12 feb 1951
5:55am CST
26N,98W
Last edited by Byron; 10-19-2009 at 04:32 AM.
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10-19-2009, 07:42 PM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
"If I didn't have astrology to explain how I'm feeling these days, I'd probably just completely lose my mind."
a big AAHHmen to that my brother.
If you put in your place of birth, maybe we can answer your implied question.
LIN
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10-19-2009, 09:33 PM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lin
"If I didn't have astrology to explain how I'm feeling these days, I'd probably just completely lose my mind."
a big AAHHmen to that my brother.
If you put in your place of birth, maybe we can answer your implied question.
LIN
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Thank you, Lin. The 26N,98W in my signature is my place of birth. That's near McAllen, Texas.
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10-19-2009, 11:26 PM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
First I have discovered that it is often not the exact aspects of the larger planets that trip us up it is the trigger planets that seal the deal.
You do have a lot going on and I am feeling your pain....seriously.
The transiting north/south node have just passed your AC/DC axis a prelude to soul changing events as one possibility.
Your sun is in trine to neptune natally so the extra energy dissolving and loosing boundaries of the ego is an energy you should be fairly familiar with but this is in concentrated doses with Jupiter, chiron and Neptune.
Your natal Pluto is in the 7th indicating that this house for you, relationships and partnerships is the source of transformation for you. It is at the core of not only a great strength but also your greatest limitation. In the sign e sign of Leo showing that ego, loyalty the me focus in relationships are key words.
Your north node in Pisces ruled by neptune tells that Neptune is how your soul may want to develop and in the second of self worth. Neptune is compassion for others and in the second a gaining of self-worth through compassion. The virgo south node tells of how you may tend to respond..analytical, methodical. Ruled by Mercury in your first ..you may tend to think first. See how mercury squares the tender moon.
Pluto in your natal chart does not touch natal saturn thus saturn and Pluto do not have a natal relationship. Thus the two pairing will not be as significant as someone who has them in aspect. The square of pluto to saturn will touch your natal Chiron . Saturn to chiron (a repeat theme) with Pluto tells of a theme of tranformation of a very old wound and healing. As Uranus is opposite this will feel disruptive.
Mercury in Aquarius, the sun in Aquarius enjoys thinking, above, seeing the bigger picture, is cool and lofty. See how Saturn trines it making for a stable mind. And here is Uranus, electric, disruptive opposing Chiron, squaring the Saturn, turning your world upside down.
Chiron is in the 11th house of others, of things we cannot control, of larger social structures, and friends, hopes and dreams. In the sign of Capricorn no less again a wounding of structure and loss of stability. The square will be a repeating stress for you. It should be quite familiar.
The ego dissolving, an old wound appears, maybe now you can recognize this pain, transform it and allow healing thus allowing your own esteem to grow and ultimately increase your compassion for others..your evolutionary process.
I hope this helps you in some way. From a fellow student going through 'stuff'too
Last edited by gemini59; 10-19-2009 at 11:29 PM.
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10-21-2009, 12:00 AM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
I'm wondering if you have ruled out any physical issue that may be present. Have you had blood tests recently? Yes, some of these transits are really awful, but they will pass. But if you have any physical issues that are unaddressed, they need to be taken care of first.
LIN
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10-21-2009, 05:41 AM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
Much appreciation, Gem', for your reading of my astro-situation! Your very astute first statement - "I have discovered that it is often not the exact aspects of the larger planets that trip us up; it is the trigger planets that seal the deal" - was driven home to me almost immediately! About 1:30 Tuesday morning (10-20), I woke up out of a dead sleep having an anxiety attack, and I could not get back to sleep. I finally left the bed, ended up at the computer and decided to fire up my astrology program. To my surprise, the Moon had just started squaring my natal Sun, which is "socked in" right now by transit Chiron and Neptune. The Moon was the trigger! I was a bit calmed by this knowledge (which you reminded me to consider), waited out the Moon passage, and suddenly fell back asleep around 4:00. (Don't even ask how much coffee I've had to drink to make it through this day!)
I think Neptune on one's Sun makes a person extra sensitive, vulnerable to everything, feels like a turtle without its shell, and those everyday transits like a little Moon square turn into major blows when they correspond with these larger planets making negative aspects. You mentioned that I'm likely familiar with the Neptunian kind of ego boundary loss, which I most definitely am. I tend to take on everybody's problems and feel responsible for things that logically aren't my problems. Plus I'm often blamed for things that I didn't do - didn't even know about! Add Chiron, the unhealed wound, to the mix and the result is great sensitivity to the pain of these unhealed wounds...to the pain of the whole world. I read about the mysterious dying off of honeybees, and frogs, and now the bats, and I feel so heartsick and stupid that I cannot do something to change it. I think of all the abused children (of whom I was one), the starving people, those who have been laid off, and it's agonizing. I drive a Saturn (a company now closing for good) and going to my dealer for the last time was one a traumatic moment - my heart ached to see all these sad and desperate people whose whole lives were built on their career with Saturn Motors...now lost and with nowhere to go. It's sadly ironic that I'm now having my "Saturn Return".
Lin, your mention of health issues is appropriate. I have had fibromyalgia for decades. The modern interpretation of fibromyalgia is hypersensitivity to sense perceptions, particularly to pain. We fibromyalgics have about three times as much "Substance P" in our nervous systems, a neurotransmitter that is associated with the sensation of pain and development of inflammation in our body; any pain stimulus to a fibromyalgic like me is at least three times as painful as it is to the average person. I'm also allergic to mold, and right now the mold spore count is sky-high in my area - so I'm suffering inflammation of the respiratory system, eyes and inner ears. (I would imagine that mold is ruled by Neptune, as it grows best in wet, dark places, and needs no light to flourish. And fibromyalgia too since it's a mysterious ailment characterized by hypersensitivity.)
By the way, I have had extensive blood work, and everything is within normal range. My only physical issues besides the enigmatic fibromyalgia and the mold are high blood pressure and poor sleep, which are helped more by anti-anxiety meds than by traditional hypertension meds or sleeping aids. That seems to tell me that my emotions are hurting my body rather than vice-versa.
Yes, Gem', you're so right again. I am long familiar with the Chiron in Capricorn in the 11th wound of the loss of a friendship structure and stability. My alcoholic mother (whose Sun was conjunct my Saturn and square my Chiron and Uranus) had put me in 9 different schools by the time I had finished 4th grade, and I think I was already pretty damaged by then. No friends, no sense of home, no familiarity with my surroundings. Just guess what that did to a Taurus Moon like mine, a Moon that craves security and familiarity and stability so much. That's when my Aquarius Mercury trine Saturn had to save me from insanity - I lost myself in the world of knowledge and logic. I tried my darnedest to reason away all my loss and pain with science...and science fiction - pulling in my Piscean/Neptunian ability to "escape" to my benefit.
And Gem', it is true that my self-worth rests upon my Pisces qualities. I am appalled at how cold and judgmental I have been of people "who have failed me" in the past. I never thought I was good enough, but I needed THEM to be perfect for me - that critical South Node in Virgo, that distrustful Capricorn Rising. People I admired could not be weak and disappoint me - I couldn't bear any more disappointment! But I realize that I was always trying to find the perfect surrogate family - good, strong, stable parents and siblings that I never had. I was trying to force these impossible roles onto so many poor unsuspecting, wounded human beings like myself.
As for my Leo Pluto in my 7th opposed to my Sun, my relationships have all been passionate, explosive, filled with jealousy and suspicion, power issues, and even violence. I finally decided that it was better off for me and whatever poor soul that might be my partner that I go it alone this lifetime. I feel that I am never to have a compatible relationship in this life.
Yes, compassion and nurturing and forgiveness for others is something that I want to be able to say that I have fully developed before I die. But I'm not completely there yet. I'm still selfish with my time (I need so much solitude, as if to recover from dealing with the outside world), self-absorbed (well, I am a 1st House Sun?), and more needy than giving. I've been given all this Pisces and Neptune in my chart for some reason...I need to work it to its fulfillment. Thanks, Gemini59, for making me focus on that.
Blessings,
Byron
Last edited by Byron; 10-22-2009 at 12:43 PM.
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10-22-2009, 08:54 PM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
Hi Byron,
I've also had Fibro since the early 90s. I'm also allergic to many things, but mine are not as bad as yours. Squares from the 6th house....planet in or ruler of....to the malefics tend to make one very "symptomatic". This is usually not life threatening, just really painful and depressing.
And you also have the Uranus inconjunct Merc (nervous system) on your asc.
The Pluto square to moon represents difficulties in relatinships.. often with internal or external violence accompanying them. Merc ruling both 5th and 8th houses, both having to do with relationship, and Uranus inconjunct Merc says that you will subliminally find relationships that press all your buttons. Also the Pluto oppose Sun doesn't help and will always make you both want a relationship and then be detached or seem unavailable emotionally within the relationship (seem that way to the other person, regardless of how you really feel)....Merc problems always keep us from communicating our feelings in positive ways....so over time, unless we get a lot of help from professionals who are experts in relationship therapy, we tend to repeat the same mistakes and patterns. If you don't know where it comes from, you can't fix it.
But a hint is this: it always comes from the childhood. That much Freud got right.
LIN
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10-24-2009, 06:04 PM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
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10-30-2009, 08:51 PM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
Thanks for all the references about Saturn Returns. I dearly wish that was all I had to deal with.
Here are my transits today...and the Pluto, Neptune, Saturn, Jupiter and Sun orbs are all applying. Mars will soon square my Moon, too. I'm going to bed and stay there. Prayers and good thoughts are welcome.
Byron
Last edited by Byron; 07-13-2010 at 05:59 AM.
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10-30-2009, 09:52 PM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
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10-31-2009, 01:44 AM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
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First I have discovered that it is often not the exact aspects of the larger planets that trip us up it is the trigger planets that seal the deal.
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Very clever, and, altho you're not exactly talking about orbs and perfection, you made me think about them.
In my experience, it's common that the worst periods concerning difficult transits are the immediate two or there degrees before perfection. Last july was a very troublesome period in my life: Saturn was two degrees away from the perfect conjunction to my Moon. The period of perfection wasn't even close to being so difficult. In general the "escalation" of the transit brings about the most stressful times, and, in the moment of perfection, everything is already worked out, or at least the greatest tension is diffused.............. So, Byron, don't worry too much about the perfection dates, they might bring about solutions, rather than problems. Maybe your present moment is the most difficult and tense, and november will be better.
All the best,
Rock!
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10-31-2009, 03:34 AM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
Muito obrigado, Rock! Your observations have made me feel a lot calmer. Recalling some of my rough transits in the past, I think you're right. It's the escalation that's the hard part. Sometimes when the transit goes exact, it already seems anticlimactic.
My problem is having so many big negative transits escalating at once. (And the small trigger transits are much more powerful right now - every Moon transit jerks me around like a feather in the wind.) But...I've managed to make it through today, so I guess I'm gonna make it to the partiles in November. Taking your advice, I'll look forward to those solutions instead of focusing on the present pain.
Tchau,
Byron
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10-31-2009, 04:01 AM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
Well how on earth did you all think I came to understand astrology?
It was my saturn return in the (8th house- whole signs) or 7th house (placidus)
It was awful and I was just like you, lost and confused!!!
You came to the right place....
I wish you the best of luck...
All I can say is to make your life as simple as possible...time for reflection and journal if you can...
Time set aside for you...
__________________
Life is about the eternal search for completion through unity and love
If God created the earth and the heavens then why cant we study the heavens through astrology?
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11-01-2009, 01:10 PM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
De nada, Byron!
Keep us posted, okay?
Best,
Rock!
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11-01-2009, 09:01 PM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockFish
De nada, Byron!
Keep us posted, okay?
Best,
Rock!
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Just happen to have a very interesting update!
Last night, t. Saturn squared my n. Chiron exactly. (T. Saturn is still 1°10' away from exactly conjunct my n. Saturn).
So I get an "urgent" call from my former neighbor, now several states away - a real drama queen like my mother was - who wants me to walk down the street and check her house because she's afraid her buyer is moving in renters before the deal is officially closed tomorrow. If so, she's going to call the police and have cars towed, renters evicted...just like Mother would have done. But she "needs" me to verify it first.
Well, not thinking like an adult, I responded like I was the cowed and dutiful son again and rushed down there with my camera to see if her property was being "trespassed" on - when I should have told her to have the police or her realtor do that. Well, on my way in the dark, I tripped on a crack in the sidewalk, and fell hard, badly bloodying my hands and my knees.
My mother's Sun was conjunct my Saturn and square my Chiron, and her afflicted Mars was conjunct my Chiron, square my Saturn and opp. my Uranus. And she wounded me more than any other person on earth. (She actually shot me with a gun, but that's just the physical wounding part.) And this neighbor woman was acting just like my mother, and I was acting just like me as a boy.
So now I have these deep, painful wounds that will take a long time to heal. Chiron in the flesh - literally.
How perfectly symbolic is that??? My lessons have begun. Get Mother and all raving alarmists like her out of my heart and my life. Say NO and stop hurting myself.
Byron
Last edited by Byron; 11-01-2009 at 11:20 PM.
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11-02-2009, 06:22 AM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron
If I didn't have astrology to explain how I'm feeling these days, I'd probably just completely lose my mind. I think I'm posting here mostly for reassurance that there's good reason to feel this terrible, that others have survived such transits...and maybe get advice on how to make the best of this time in purgatory. I have a feeling that I MUST learn now, MUST grow now, or it will all be a huge loss. But still trying to figure out just what it is that I must learn...
Transit Neptune and Chiron have long been conjoining my Sun in my 1st House. Transit Jupiter is opposing my Pluto in my 7th. Transit Pluto has been conjunct my natal Chiron (11th) and is now squaring my Saturn (8th) - and I'm soon to have my 2nd Saturn Return, with an exact Pluto square to my Saturn at the same time.
I'm exhausted in body, mind and spirit. I seem to have only two emotions left - dread and sadness. My mind keeps rehashing my difficult past...feeling only a painful sense of loss. I look to the future with nothing but dread. Lacking any motivation whatsoever, just want to stay in bed all day, but my dreams are so dark and gloomy that even that is not an escape. I'm thankful that I still have to pull myself together and go to work or I might never leave the house.
Frankly, I'm afraid of what's coming as the orbs get tighter...when transit Saturn and Pluto are exactly square to each other in mid-November, they'll be smack on my natal Saturn (1LIB30)...scares the #@%& out of me.
Thanks in advance for any helpful words.
Byron
12 feb 1951
5:55am CST
26N,98W
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Your Saturn return isn't that bad compared to mine.
As the transit of Saturn got closer to my natal Saturn in Gemini a lot of bad stuff happened. My dog died in December 2000. The manager I got along with the best at my job got transferred in March 2001. I got fired from my job in April 2001 by the new manager. A cousin of mine died in a car crash in May 2001. My grandfather died in June 2001. A cousin of my late grandmother died in early July 2001. I had a pre-cognitive dream of large skyscrapers on fire in late July 2001 which totally freaked me out when I had the dream and 44 days later when it happened for real. A former co-worker of mine at the job where I was fired was arrested for murder in August 2001. Then 9/11 happened in September 2001 as the transiting Saturn was almost on top of my natal Saturn.
As I look at my chart, I think the transit of Saturn in 2001 activated the T-square made up of Saturn in Gemini, Neptune in Sagittarius and Mercury in Pisces which triggered my pre-cognitive dream of 9/11. I checked out several astrology websites and they state if a Mercury in Pisces is heavily afflicted, like with a T-square, it can take a person near the state of "mediumship" as in ESP, Pre-cognition, psychic intiution, etc.
My Saturn Return was crazy for me and I'm just now getting back into the groove of things as Saturn transits Libra. It'll be rough going but you'll get through the Saturn return.
Last edited by dperez3894; 11-02-2009 at 06:32 AM.
Reason: Grammar and spelling errors.
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11-02-2009, 03:19 PM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
First, to Smilingsteph: ditto. I learned a tremendous amount of astrology when Saturn was in my 9th house sunsign. I had very little else to do because I had no social life...my astrology teacher at the time told me the reason I had nothing else to do was because I was supposed to be using my down time not to date or party, but to learn astrology. Living through these transits are the best teachers.
Personal planetary "triggers."
It's true that the heavy planets that line up in negative ways on your chart (I call it a conspiracy of negative energy) set you up for some bad experiences and events... but usually there has to be triggers from personal planets to really set them off.... Mars is very famous for doing this, but sometimes it just the Moon....if the Moon is very sensitive in your natal chart, aspects of the moon can be triggers throughout your life....both in positive and negative ways.
I remember the case of a gal who had a near death accident...was in hospital for months and had most of her face reconstructed. She'd been drinking and driving and was speeding home when she hit another car, whose driver had also been drinking. I did her chart for research because I wanted to know what saved her life. She had horrendous transits, and the moon was a trigger. But Saturn was trine her Venus in, I believe, the 2nd house. There was another planet that helped her survive, but I don't remember it now. Also Venus in her natal chart had some good aspects, and she was a Libra rising.
Studying this chart taught me a lot.
Well, studying anyone's chart teaches you...if you can monitor the life of the person whose chart it is.
To me, every chart is a mystery to be solved.
LIN
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11-03-2009, 01:12 AM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dperez3894
Your Saturn return isn't that bad compared to mine.
As the transit of Saturn got closer to my natal Saturn in Gemini a lot of bad stuff happened. My dog died in December 2000. The manager I got along with the best at my job got transferred in March 2001. I got fired from my job in April 2001 by the new manager. A cousin of mine died in a car crash in May 2001. My grandfather died in June 2001. A cousin of my late grandmother died in early July 2001. I had a pre-cognitive dream of large skyscrapers on fire in late July 2001 which totally freaked me out when I had the dream and 44 days later when it happened for real. A former co-worker of mine at the job where I was fired was arrested for murder in August 2001. Then 9/11 happened in September 2001 as the transiting Saturn was almost on top of my natal Saturn.
As I look at my chart, I think the transit of Saturn in 2001 activated the T-square made up of Saturn in Gemini, Neptune in Sagittarius and Mercury in Pisces which triggered my pre-cognitive dream of 9/11. I checked out several astrology websites and they state if a Mercury in Pisces is heavily afflicted, like with a T-square, it can take a person near the state of "mediumship" as in ESP, Pre-cognition, psychic intiution, etc.
My Saturn Return was crazy for me and I'm just now getting back into the groove of things as Saturn transits Libra. It'll be rough going but you'll get through the Saturn return.
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Can I ever relate! That's on the level of my FIRST Saturn Return, 29 years ago.
My parents disowned me, threw me out of the family, told me never to contact them again...simply because they found out I was gay (which ironically was something I hated being, and ironically, I had always been called the "good boy" of the family). I was locked out of my own apartment (because I was renting from my mother) and couldn't even get my furniture or my clothes. For months, I had nowhere to sleep except on a co-worker's sofa. I was arrested by a rookie park ranger for driving 35 mph in a 25 mph zone (I was cold sober driving through a state park with not a soul around...except the ranger) because my driver's license had expired a few days before...and believe it or not, I was handcuffed and put in jail for this!!! (Of course, it was later dismissed in court and all fines and bail refunded...but I'd already been totally humiliated and traumatized). Then I was robbed at knifepoint while depositing about $90 in tip money (I moonlighted as a waiter) in an ATM. My beautiful car was wrecked while parked in a parking lot and my insurance wouldn't cover it. Oh, there's lots more, but that should give some idea of how traumatic my first Saturn Return was.
This SECOND return I'm going through right now seems to be filling me with all the painful emotions of the first, but they now seem to be mostly internalized because I never dealt sufficiently with the real external trauma of the FIRST return. Like my cats, I just wanted to bury all that s*** and move on. But it's all coming back now...vivid memories of pain. Like I'm back there again...like the anguish of the time my alcoholic mother shot me in the leg after I had bought her a new washer and dryer (with my waiter money) because she imagined I had stolen money from her to do so...I look at the scar on my leg and it all floods back...
This second Saturn return of mine seems to indicate that if you don't deal with and resolve the trauma of that first Saturn Return, all that pain will come back in full force when you're 58. And it's so much harder dealing with that much pain - even if it's internal - than when you're 29.
Byron
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11-06-2009, 04:53 PM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
Just curious, when your crazy mother shot you did you bring charges?
And I agree with the 2nd Saturn return thing. It does bring back to the memory that which you haven't yet let go. Some things can never go away, and I always make a joke that if I got Altzheimers disease I could finally forget all the C r A p from the past. Because that's the only way it would be truly gone.
All full moon children have rough times with (usually) the mother. But I think your's tops the list.
LIN
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11-13-2009, 12:36 AM
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Re: Saturn Return in a transit hell...
I'm reaching maximum on my Saturn Return with Pluto in square, among the other simultaneous negative transits, and surprisingly, the effects now seem to have become entirely physical.
Emotionally, I've actually been okay and enjoyed interacting with my students and colleagues early today, but physically, I've been feeling worse and worse...my skin feels painfully sensitive all over, as if I'd had a bad sunburn (which I haven't, but this is a symptom of a fibro attack), and I feel like I'm succumbing to a fever and bad flu (but my temperature is 98.6F). My blood pressure shot up and my bowels have been killing me (IBS).
Today my transit aspects in orb were:
- Saturn conjunct and parallel my Saturn
- Pluto square my Saturn
- Moon conjunct tr. Saturn conjunct my Saturn (a midday "trigger" transit, when I started to feel very weak, sensitive, and painful all over)
- Sun square my natal Sun-Pluto opposition (making a T-square)
- Sun sesquisquare my Uranus (my ruling planet in Cancer in 6th)
- Neptune conjunct my Sun
- Chiron sesquisquare my Uranus
- Jupiter opposite my Pluto (part of the T-square formation above)
- Uranus semi-square my Moon
The short trines may have kept me from dying...maybe they've kept me emotionally afloat...
Despite the fact that the CEO is visiting our branch, I had to leave work early and go home to get some xanax, atenolol and aspirin in me. My fibromyalgia and IBS were causing me such excruciating pain that I could not focus on anything...and I have pile of work to do.
I only hope that the beginning separations tomorrow will allow me to get done the work that I couldn't do today. Geez, it's going to be Friday the 13th!
I sure wish I could say that I've learned or further matured from this second Saturn transit, but I could not tell you what that might be at this point. Just that I am perfectly miserable. Sure don't want this pain to be for nothing!
Byron
12 feb 1951
5:55am CST
26N,98W
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