Equal house or Placidus?

[Cupcake]

which one do you use? which one do you find is more accurate?

[Frank]

Neither. I use Regiomontanus and Whole-Sign houses.

They work well for my needs.

[astrologer50]

I use Equal House system and am a modern astrologer. Lots of people that come into Astrology get their free charts calculated at www.astro.com and the default ‘house system’ used is Placidus and think that’s just the norm and all that there is……..BUT that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can change the default on astro.com in Extended Chart selection to Equal house and a few more.

Throughout the forums but mainly in natal astrology there are two main branches Placidus (unequal size houses) v Equal House (whereby each house is same size) but lots more……. For more information on these go here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(astrology)#Description
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm

For further research try here...
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3280&highlight=placidus+equal
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=638&highlight=house+system
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=152849#post152849

It's only with study and research will you be able to assess where your planets are deposited and in which houses... thus see which 'glove fits'

How then does an astrologer choose a house system? Well, the individual studying alone is more than likely to use Placidus Houses. The reason for this is simple - he has to consult an ephemeris in any case, and Raphael's Ephemeris is the most widely used, which gives the information needed for Placidus Houses. Please read pink link for more info. on this.
http://www.magicaura.com/eng/article/121/
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/systems.html


[Parts of this post deleted because it is plagiarism. Everything written was wordly copied from magicaura.com. Moderator]

[Frank]

Equal House is NOT the oldest house system. That would be Whole-Sign houses.

Equal Houses came about from a misreading of Ptolemy in later ages.

[astrologer50]

apologies Frank --- I have amended my earlier post...

Equal House System:
A simple, yet highly effective system, this was the method that the ancients used before the various unequal houses systems developed. Any table of houses may be used because once the ascendant degree is discovered, the divisions of the chart wheel are equally divided with the same degree as the ascendant on each house cusp. The signs on the cusps then follow in order around t he wheel beginning with the rising sign. There are no intercepted signs in equal houses and therefore each sign is represented on a particular house cusp. The Equal house system does not create very large or small houses that become even more pronounced the higher the northern or southern latitudes used to calculate the chart.
-The Equal House System avoids the problem with the Placidus which results in extremely uneven houses if the native should be born in extreme northern or southern latitudes.
-Each sign is fully represented on a house cusp.
-Debbie Kempton Smith the author of Secrets from an StarGazer's Notebook recommends either Equal House or Koch (unequal).
-Margaret Hone puts forth an excellent argument in favor of Equal House in her book, "Applied Astrology" which is why it is the default for SkyViewZone.
Jeff Mayo and the Faculty for Astrological Studies also favors this house system.
http://www.solsticepoint.com/astrologersmemorial/hone.html
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm

[freedomlover]

Originally Posted by Cupcake

which one do you use? which one do you find is more accurate?

For natal charts, I've always used Placidus with good results. However the more I've used Regiomontanus for horary, and experimented with it on natal, I often find myself choosing Regiomontanus for natal, as well. So I kind of second Frank's view on the subject. I've experimented a little with both equal and whole sign, and find whole sign speaks to me better than equal. (No offense, astrologer50- whatever works for you is great!). However, I miss the extra layers of meaning given to the chart through the intercepted and duplicated houses of Placidus and Regiomontanus, so I'm sticking with that. Plus, I've just been with it so long, it's hard to re-train my brain. LOL

I really think it comes down to the system that really feels comfortable to you, Cupcake. However, I do think Regiomontanus seems to be vastly preferred over Placidus for horary, as far as accuracy goes.

[Lin]

As I've stated on other threads, I've used Placidus-tropical for over 30 years and have never questioned it's validity.
However, if you mean to seriously study astrology, and if you for some reason feel that Placidus may not be for you, you can study a control group of people...say 10 to 15 subjects and use 3 or 4 different systems, and without prejudice study their lives for a year or so and discuss their lives with them, and see which of the charts most closely correlate to what is actually happening.

And once you decide on a system, stick to it or you will confuse yourself no end. You need to have confidence in the system you use or others will not have confidence in you.
LIN

[astrologer50]

With placidus and very high latitudes it screws around with the houses too much. For example it moves my stellium of planets for fourth to second and that really affects the whole chart and it's intrepretations.

I was born in UK and at certain times of the night when aqu and pisces are rising it seems to really mess around with the size of the houses disproportionally. Placidus seems ok if there are hardly any movements of planets, but when there are huge differences that's when your own discernments are important, cos as I said earlier to have to analayse which glove fits...

[Frisiangal]

Astrologer50:
Raphael's Ephemeris is the most widely used

Ummmm.......this might be so in the U.K but it isn't so world-wide. I failed my diploma exams for the U.K Faculty of Astrological Studies back in the 1980's partly because I couldn't get my head round Raphael's midday ephemeris, having been taught for 5 years in my country from 'Michelsen's Midnight American Ephemeris', the most popular ephemeris available. Try buying a second hand one; it's worth more than gold dust. The faculty wouldn't allow me to use the midnight version for calculation....possibly because their own tutors didn't know how to work with it?????.....and I failed the calculation for a Southern latitude birth very miserably.

With placidus and very high latitudes it screws around with the houses too much...........

I was born in U.K..........

The U.K. scrapes in with the use of other house systems, including Placidus. It is, indeed, in the arctic region that the houses are very close together. But then I think, "Who's going anywhere in the Arctic region?"

My personal 'grumble' about Equal House is that it implies that all realms of life are of equal importance. Are they? All men may be created equal, yet their living circumstances vary immensely. At least the other 'irregular house' systems can often show a prominence of a particular theme.

For me the Placidus system has proven its accuracy and excellency, even to transits/progressions from and over house cusps.
My own chart has 10+Virgo Rising and I have a Mercury-Venus conjunction on 7-9 Taurus. Equal house puts this in the 8th house because 10+Taurus is then on the 9th house cusp. I have a tongue for smatterings of languages (Mercury 9th?), yet speak but 2 fluently (9th specialisation?). I met my foreign husband(Venus 9th?) as a result of a pen-pal club(Mercury 9th?). Living abroad I worked in daily routine positions where I dealt with foreigners in a publishing company(ruler 10th in 9th) and, changing jobs, handled foreign currency from all over the world(Venus Taurus in 9th?). Later still, I sold expensive objects of beauty( Venus in 9th?) to rich foreign tourists( Mercury Taurus 9th?). To me, these three facts alone wouldn't explain an 8th house conjunction sufficiently, but they sure as heaven fit a 9th house placing.

I strongly believe it's the personal emphasis one places on any house system that 'makes' it work. Most of us live with blind spots regarding our lives and the various systems may bring out each of them individually.

Frisiangal

[EJ53]

Originally Posted by Frisiangal

...My personal 'grumble' about Equal House is that it implies that all realms of life are of equal importance.

I agree strongly with this.

Placidus gives me a 3rd/4th/9th/10th house of 37 degrees, reducing the others accordingly......and these four houses have undoubtably played a more prominent part in my life than the rest.

For natal chart interpretation though, Equal House and Placidus seem to give me the same conclusions (via different routes/significators)......But, with progressions and transits, the Placidus house cusps appear to be more reliable than those of Equal House (in my experience).

EJ

[astrologer50]

My personal 'grumble' about Equal House is that it implies that all realms of life are of equal importance. Are they? All men may be created equal, yet their living circumstances vary immensely. At least the other 'irregular house' systems can often show a prominence of a particular theme.

To me each house is equal not cos of Equal house system but cos the 'meanings' of the houses are unilateral. It's only the 'planets' in houses that emphasise the areas of life that are more important to the individual-- as with any house system. There are pro's and con's for everything-- so let's not allow this to deteriorate any further

[starlink]

Ah Frisiangal, what a shame! I must have been luckier then. It was a few years later and because I did the correspondence course with them and they could not see I used the American Ephemeries for midnight!. Even so, I also failed the mathematical part of the exam the first time round (I dont remember anymore what the reason was) so I had to do that part again (thank God not the whole exam)the year after! Dreadful, but I did it!

I use Placidus ever since I started astrology at the age of 28. I sincerely do not think that one system is better than the other (I agree that in higher altitudes whole sign or Equal looks better. You dont get these weird big houses). I strongly believe that looking at a chart brings our intuition to the surface, so whether you use one or the other system, the endresult should be the same. However, Placidus for me gives me a bit more information somehow. I also find the two MC's a bit confusing with Equal House.

[noideaaboutastro]

I'm a beginner but I use Placidus for natal charts which is the only astrology I can sort of understand. It just feels and looks right to me so I use that one.

[astrologer50]

Starlink,

I also find the two MC's a bit confusing with Equal House

What's this MC is MC in any houses systems as is a house cups is a house cusp. Equal is just seeing certain planets move from one house to another and therefore altering the planets, signs meanings.....

10th house cusp is treated just the same as rest---- 8,9,11,12,2,3,5,6

[Mechanical Designs]

@Cupcake,

I generally prefer Placidus system of Astrology for me its accurate . But all depends on the a person experience when dealing with the type of the system. I am not Pro Astrologer so I don't know much about the Whole house system .

Mechanical Designs

[Frisiangal]

Originally Posted by astrologer50

To me each house is equal not cos of Equal house system but cos the 'meanings' of the houses are unilateral. It's only the 'planets' in houses that emphasise the areas of life that are more important to the individual-- as with any house system. There are pro's and con's for everything-- so let's not allow this to deteriorate any further

Who's deteriorating?
I don't understand what you mean by 'unilateral meanings'. You mean every realm is just as important as another, and one is not necessarily of more/less importance in one's life than another? Would this not counteract what you have written in bold type?

Planets in a house emphasise a realm of life, yet those planets can also be rulers of houses other than that in which they are situated. The ruling house can also influence the area of life in which the natal planet is situated. This is a good method to use to discover which house system 'fits' when the ruling house doesn't follow the Equal House system.

Starlink: Ah Frisiangal, what a shame!

No problem. Changed loyalties; took and got the qualifications in Dairyland.

Starlink: I also find the two MC's a bit confusing with Equal House

.

For anyone scratching their head about this, there is but one MC. The M.C (medium coeli -Midday Sun)-I.C. axis for the location of one's birth remains the same in whichever house system is used. For most house systems its positional degree marks the beginning of the 10th house. M.C and 10th house cusp are the same, yet the M.C. is not the 10th house, which is a realm of experience.
Using the Equal House system, all further house cusps are taken from the Ascending degree. The 10th house begins on the same degree of the 10th sign following the Ascending sign but it is not the M.C. The positional MC-IC degree axis does not necessarily even fall IN the 10th-4th houses. It's often across the 9th-3rd houses (as in my chart!) and in some rare cases it can fall across the 8th-2nd. As the MC is said to be significant of 'one's destiny/position of importance in the world', Equal House implies that this can be found in other realms of life other than 'the career house'. There's something to be said for that....although it doesn't ever appear to be in the 7th house of private relationships or the 12th of willingly sacrificing all.

The 4th house is 'home roots', but what does the I.C. actually stand for, especially when in a house other than the 4th?

Frisiangal

[Virinchi]

no zodiac sign is exactly 30 degrees but most of us assume its 30x12=360
i use placidus because it gives me exact cusps which proved to be right in vedic

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by Frisiangal

Who's deteriorating?
I don't understand what you mean by 'unilateral meanings'. You mean every realm is just as important as another, and one is not necessarily of more/less importance in one's life than another? Would this not counteract what you have written in bold type? All houses have the same meanings, whatever the house system involved.

Planets in a house emphasise a realm of life, yet those planets can also be rulers of houses other than that in which they are situated. The ruling house can also influence the area of life in which the natal planet is situated. This is a good method to use to discover which house system 'fits' when the ruling house doesn't follow the Equal House system. please explain, this doesn't make sense? a house cusp ruler is just the same in any house system and that cusp ruler can be placed anywhere --- in any house system



No problem. Changed loyalties; took and got the qualifications in Dairyland.

.

For anyone scratching their head about this, there is but one MC. The M.C (medium coeli -Midday Sun)-I.C. axis for the location of one's birth remains the same in whichever house system is used. For most house systems its positional degree marks the beginning of the 10th house. M.C and 10th house cusp are the same, yet the M.C. is not the 10th house, which is a realm of experience.
Using the Equal House system, all further house cusps are taken from the Ascending degree. The 10th house begins on the same degree of the 10th sign following the Ascending sign but it is not the M.C. The positional MC-IC degree axis does not necessarily even fall IN the 10th-4th houses. It's often across the 9th-3rd houses (as in my chart!) and in some rare cases it can fall across the 8th-2nd. As the MC is said to be significant of 'one's destiny/position of importance in the world', Equal House implies that this can be found in other realms of life other than 'the career house'. There's something to be said for that....although it doesn't ever appear to be in the 7th house of private relationships or the 12th of willingly sacrificing all. where have you got this impression or mis conception from?

The 4th house is 'home roots', but what does the I.C. actually stand for, especially when in a house other than the 4th? not a lot actually it's not really that important 'where the MC' falls.... MC is MC and so is IC

Frisiangal

The MC retains its commonly agreed significations, but it doesn't act as the starting point of the 10th house, therefore in Equal house it adds extra definition and meaning to MC and the cusps involved, but always MC is same in interpretations as other house systems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_h...em#Equal_House

[Frisiangal]

Astrologer50: please explain, this doesn't make sense? a house cusp ruler is just the same in any house system and that cusp ruler can be placed anywhere --- in any house system

Actually, it makes a lot of sense.
Let's say that, using Equal House, a person has planet X in the 11th house. Planet X is yellow, the house is blue, so planet X takes on a 'greeny' tinge when dealing with the realm of life that the sign on the 11th house cusp implies. Yet planet X is ruler of the 2nd house. So, would the 'greeny' tinge that occurs through the 11th house say anything about the values/self worth the person experiences of and in the 11th house realm?

Yet, using another house system which provides different house cusps, planet X is still in the blue house, but it is not ruler of the 2nd house but of the 1st or 3rd house. It's these house realms that will be influential in dealing with 11th house circumstances. So, would being a member of an 11th house green gang give him/her (X, ruler 1st house) personal importance, whilst the 3rd house influence could be suggestive of joining the 11th house green gang in order to teach/learn (from) them?

This is the method I was taught years before Bernadette Brady explained the same system (with diagrams) in her book, 'The Eagle and the Lark' a.k.a 'Predictive Astrology'.

where have you got this impression or mis conception from?

Well....considering I was only ever taught the use of Equal House system by one Faculty????? But that which came after 'although' was my own deduction.

it's not really that important 'where the MC' falls.... MC is MC

I guess that's a question of personal perspective for those who work with Equal House, especially if one is more 'conscious-raising' inclined.

I'm not 'knocking' usage of Equal House, which I have come to understand is your personal preference; just mentioning to those new to astrology how different techniques can be tested without prejudice to find their own personal preference.

Frisiangal

[Cupcake]

Thank you all! Whole signs works best for me.

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by Frisiangal

Actually, it makes a lot of sense.
Let's say that, using Equal House, a person has planet X in the 11th house. Planet X is yellow, the house is blue, so planet X takes on a 'greeny' tinge when dealing with the realm of life that the sign on the 11th house cusp implies. Yet planet X is ruler of the 2nd house. So, would the 'greeny' tinge that occurs through the 11th house say anything about the values/self worth the person experiences of and in the 11th house realm?

Yet, using another house system which provides different house cusps, planet X is still in the blue house, but it is not ruler of the 2nd house but of the 1st or 3rd house. It's these house realms that will be influential in dealing with 11th house circumstances. So, would being a member of an 11th house green gang give him/her (X, ruler 1st house) personal importance, whilst the 3rd house influence could be suggestive of joining the 11th house green gang in order to teach/learn (from) them?

This is the method I was taught years before Bernadette Brady explained the same system (with diagrams) in her book, 'The Eagle and the Lark' a.k.a 'Predictive Astrology'.

Thanks, I see exactly where you are coming from, due to intercepted signs/houses with placidus. Yes, technically I agree,but most beginners (usually) cannot even make this house connection from planet to house -- let alone understand that connection, cos it takes a 'lot' of objectivity and self analysis. Having said this I have proved time and again the validity of Equal in my own chart using Equal


Well....considering I was only ever taught the use of Equal House system by one Faculty????? But that which came after 'although' was my own deduction. Gosh I quite agree, I'm qualified to teach in Adult Educ and have written my own beginners Diploma and lecture publicly....



I guess that's a question of personal perspective for those who work with Equal House, especially if one is more 'conscious-raising' inclined.

I'm not 'knocking' usage of Equal House, which I have come to understand is your personal preference; just mentioning to those new to astrology how different techniques can be tested without prejudice to find their own personal preference.

Frisiangal

Cos this is GL and newbies may find all this a little daunting I'm posting some links for further research.

Where in a chart does a person see himself
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=157562#post157562


Researching rulers of houses will help you understand more where I joining the dots so to speak
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/rulersofhousesinhouses.html
http://www.trans4mind.com/personal_development/astrology/LearningAstrology/housesDerived.htm

House systems Traditional v Modern
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8463

[starlink]

this is GL and newbies may find all this a little daunting

Astrologer50, I wished they indeed were all "newbies" to astrology, but many posters know quite a lot of astrology but just dont want to make a bit of an attempt to interprete their charts /questions and so end up here because we have to move them here!! Pity really. But thanks for the links anyways, those are always helpful.

Frisiangal, I find that example you gave from Bernadette Brady very useful indeed, especially for those who get totally confused about houserulers etc.!

I also understand Astrologer50's point of view. The Equal House system is indeed much more simple to start with instead of getting involved with intercepted houses and all that. I also think that the system you were initially taught, is the one you tend to stick to, unless you are a real "investigator" type and want to try out each system. I never did that. I am happy with the one I used from the beginning and that was Placidus. Had I started out with Equal or Whole house system, then I guess I would have stuck to those.

[lynnhayes]

I found this thread when I was researching the Equal House system. I've used Placidus for almost 30 years and have always found it accurate, but over the past five years or so I've had many more interneational clients than before. So recently when I have a client from the northern latitudes whose Midheaven lends itself to easy testing I've been looking at both Placidus and Equal House, and after doing this with five charts now I have found that Equal House is not accurate, at least not in my practice with these clients.

Yesterday I had the best test case ever - six planets in one sign (including the Sun) and two more grouped right next to the six, so they were all in the twelfth house (Placidus) or eleventh (Equal House). It was clear that the twelfth house was where his world was centered. His Midheaven was either 27 Sag (P) or 24 Sag (EH), so we looked at major events and found that they definitely lined up with the 27 Sag MC. His Moon was either in the 8th house (Placidus) or 9th house (EH), and it was clear that the 8th house Moon was the one that fit.

Placidus has always worked well for me and provided accurate chart interpretations, but when I started reading about Equal House for northern latitudes I thought maybe that would be worth checking out. But after this experiment I'll stick to Placidus.

[RockFish]

Originally Posted by lynnhayes

Placidus has always worked well for me and provided accurate chart interpretations, but when I started reading about Equal House for northern latitudes I thought maybe that would be worth checking out. But after this experiment I'll stick to Placidus.

Same here. I didn't do an extensive research, but I have friends in Norway and I tried to read their charts in Equal house and didn't make heads with tails...

Example: one of them was a woman. Her 1st and 7th axis was huge and the other houses were all squeezed. I checked the birth of her children and there was always a 5th or 11th house situation going on when they were born, while Equal house didn't seem to make that much sense with the theme.

The look of the charts for people born up north may turn people off the use of Placidus, but I got past the first impression and actually read the chart, squeezed as it was, and thought Placidus was more accurate.

[MTTY05]

For a while now I've been using placidus. However, I took a look over my equal house chart and noticed that Jupiter moves from the 3rd to the 4th, and Saturn moves from the 11th to 12th. I think the equal house placements of Jupiter and Saturn apply to me more than placidus.

However, in placidus there are interceptions/duplications, and I think there is something to that. I can't really just ignore the interceptions. There must be some kind of meaning. I have indeed noticed that my intercepted planets do seem to be "locked away" at times like people say.

But yet, I don't really feel Jupiter's energy at all and it isn't even intercepted. Which makes me wonder why I feel Jupiter may apply to me more in equal house, when I can't really feel it's influence. Makes no sense at all, but that's still what I think.