Will she survive the Luekemia?

[millionora]

Hello,

Ok my sister was diagnosed with Luekemia a couple of days ago..
but with technology advancements we are hoping for the best and fastest recovery for her.

my horary question:

Will she survive the leukemia?

Asc-Saturn in the 8th clearly showing signs of fear.
Sister-ruler of the 3rd is Mars in my 6th or her 4th
Moon-in Libra in my 8th or her 6th house.

so the moon will next square Mars (my sister) then will trine jupiter ruler of her 8th house and 12th house... doesnt look good at all even though jupiter is a benefic. So my skills are giving me a negative that she will not survive this..but then again we have the moons last aspect b4 leaving the sign which is a sextile to venus..so i am unsure of the result especially as i am too charged to be able to read clearly..

Perhaps another more skilled horary artist could give a more objective answer..

thank you

love,light,truth
blessings

[hermetic]

I just want to say I am sorry this is happening to your sister and I hope God helps all your family thru this. I know how hard is this.

Other thing I wanted to comment, with a question like this I seriously doubt anyone will be brave enough to enter astrological discussion. I for one, do not dare.
Although I am not really good in horary, even if I saw answer being positive or negative, I would just not be able to tell with certainty.
Ok, this may be debatable subjects, some astrologers value the 'truth' above all, and there have been harsh oppositions on this forum in the past. Imagine someone telling you she will not survive, you know? everyone would probably jump onto that person. and they would say you wanted an answer. ... saying that I think it is not good posting questions like this. also - do you really want an answer? and I hope you don't take this the wrong way
Take care!

[millionora]

Originally Posted by hermetic

I just want to say I am sorry this is happening to your sister and I hope God helps all your family thru this. I know how hard is this.

Other thing I wanted to comment, with a question like this I seriously doubt anyone will be brave enough to enter astrological discussion. I for one, do not dare.
Although I am not really good in horary, even if I saw answer being positive or negative, I would just not be able to tell with certainty.
Ok, this may be debatable subjects, some astrologers value the 'truth' above all, and there have been harsh oppositions on this forum in the past. Imagine someone telling you she will not survive, you know? everyone would probably jump onto that person. and they would say you wanted an answer. ... saying that I think it is not good posting questions like this. also - do you really want an answer? and I hope you don't take this the wrong way
Take care!

Thank you dearly Hermetic for bringing light to this specific question. You are absolutely right, but since we found out she was diagnosed with this while mercury is retro i was somehow hoping that there would be a glitch somewhere, annd i have seen amazing things in the past with horary when done the right way.

Also the fact that i am far away geographicaly from my sister and family i would like to have some idea as to what to expect so that i may take measures to be there with them if possible. Oh and i have natally mercury in scorpio in my 8th house so thats also another reason for my Plutonian question..

Thank you dearly again Hermetic for having the courage to state your thoughts. May you be blessed.

love, light,truth
blessings.

[Apollo686]

millionora: I just recently posted a similar Horary question and I, too, was wondering if a Mercury Retrograde changes the picture. Hopefully someone here is knowledgeable enough to at leash shed some light on that even if they don't want to engage in a discussion on a life/death matter.

I've been reading through William Lilly's list of aphorisms and for the life of me I cannot find a clue as to how to definitely answer "yes" or "no" to this type of question.

[tikana]

Millionora

I do not want to even type out what i think of this chart.. I AM SOO sorry for your sister being ill.

I dont look at health charts at all but spend as much time as you can with her.

she is 3rd house ruled cause she is your sister
it is very very very very weak plus it is squaring with moon her 4th house

i am sorry hunny .. i am just trying to find a ray of hope..

hugs and kisses
T

[lillyjgc]

Interesting delineation, Joseph. It's actually rather uncommon for a person to die from leukaemia these days so I'm surprised by what the chart's suggesting here.

If we take h3 cusp to rule your sister, Mars is her ruler and Mars is very weak, and in her h4 as Joseph says above.
There are 4 planets in her H6 of illness, which is ruled by Mercury. Mercury is combusting with the sun (this could also signify radiation treatment btw as mars applies a sextile to Uranus in her turned h12 but retro and moving toward her h11.)
As mercury rules the illness itself we have to decide on the basis of this chart if mercury is stronger than the quesited, Mars in cancer.A retro planet signifying an illness can also indicate a condition prone to returning, which leukaemia can do following remissions.Nothing good is happening to the illness itself.Mars will be squared by the moon which does suggest obstacles.
Treatment and doctors:
Doctors/Medics ruled by h10 cusp.Saturn.Treatment by h11 cusp- Saturn too.Saturn is also very weak, but is Saturn stronger than Mercury here, the illness?The sun's conjunction to Saturn also suggests blood diseases of a chronic kind.

Can mars survive here? Nothing much is going to happen for a while here.One thing I can say, to recover from any illness one needs to have and maintain a strong willpower. Mars in cancer can be tenacious but risks being over emotional.The moon will enter the via combusta then go into mars sign-she'll feel more *like herself*, but the sun which rules such matters as health is to move into the sign of its fall, Libra.It approaches the anaretic degree.
i dont think this chart is at all a *fait accompli* regarding the outcome. It does show a tough journey.
I wish your sister all the best.
Election astrology can be used very successfully to choose treatment times etc and horary can be used to select treatment options.There are ways of maximising positive outcomes, even when the sky isnt helping, like now.
I hope your sister will feel she can seek further guidance from astrology.
Cheers
Lillyjgc

[millionora]

Hello All,

I would like to thank you all. Tikana you are awesome your kind words mean a lot and go a long way with me. Joseph and Lillyjgc your dissecting of the chart is amazing to say the least, i learned somethings also. I will for sure update the thread with any developments so that we may learn more.

Thank you all again.

wishing you all love,light,truth

Loads of blessings too.

[hermetic]

Originally Posted by Joseph Ledzion

The ray of hope that I have is that life never ends that evil does not exist. Always are we in a state of grace, even in death, because reality is a big place, and we live many lives. There is no room for sorrow in the kingdom of heaven, which is here and now, and can only exist in this very instant. Fear not death, for it is not the end, but a beginning.

I wouldn't mind looking at her natal chart.

Joseph

excuse me but what was your first post about this chart being radical/or not, and therefore cannot be judged.
and did yoou ever have sibling die on you?
I am sorry but i find these post really disturbing.

[smilingsteph]

I wont get into horary here,
but having a mother die recently I would love to share some advice.

Whether a family member is sick or dying:

I found it very soothing to have spent two weeks with her before she passed away.
We decided to do a journal of the funny things she would say, of our conversations and advice she would want us to know as we got older.
Some of her advice- due to the morphine was quite funny.
Like my sister needed Proactive for her complexion
I needed to quit eating- because I was going to get fat
My sister other sister needed to realize she is stronger than she knows and can use her toilet anytime.

Things like this make me laugh and comfort me.

We videotaped her telling us secrets of how to care for our children, even though we dont have any yet.

We took down how all of her feelings she had about every family member. When she passed we were able to tell each person what she had said and it brought a great deal of comfort.

We also no matter what, made her feel like she was a part of us. We kept her involved in all of her care. We allowed her to make choices. We helped her to put her clothes on, if she needed it (to not make her feel like we were taking away her right to be human). She would sometimes have her shirt on backwards, but felt so accomplished to have done it herself.

We planned her funeral, memorial, with her involvement, even though she at times didnt want to talk about it. We let her do this when she felt it was ready.

Take pictures, lots of them.

Get a journal for everyone, your sister, yourself, other family members. Get the same ones, so you all can have something close to keep near your hearts.

Most importantly, take care of yourself!
So many people neglect their own care when a family member is ill. You dont want to leave their side and are afraid to leave so you forget that you are alive too.
Shower, eat healthy foods, sleep, write in your journal, have a support system for yourself.

Leukemia is not always a death sentence. After taking a Fundamentals of Oncology class just last week, I found out that there are many great and difficult treatments.

No cancer is a death sentence. It is estimated that one out of three people will get some form of cancer in their lifetime.

I dont believe in extending life if the life that is going to be extended will be one of suffering. That is a choice she will have to make. It is very personal to make the choices between what sort of therapy she would like to take.

I just cared for a breast cancer patient and she was a delight. Had more energy and love eminating from her than anyone else I had come across in a long time. She had on her wig and told me she had brown hair and decided to go blond, and "blonds do have more fun." She always smiles and had three more rounds of chemo to go. What a strong woman she is!

I wish you and your family the strength to get through this. It may be at times the worst thing ever and the best. Maybe nothing in between. It is a road of ups and downs. Looking back only 8 months have passed since my mom died, and I have had my ups and downs for sure. It was one of the best things that I have been through. My mom is free from her pain my sisters and I are closer than ever, I have more compassion in my job and I am still a daughter to an amazing mother.

I send lots of hugs your way!

[starlink]

Millionaria, by posting a question like this, you must have felt prepared for a negative outcome and I find this a brave act on your part. I very much sympathise with your sister and yourself having to see her getting weaker and having the prospect of death.

Your shimmer of hope regarding Mercury retro going direct I can understand but in this chart it rules her 6th house. Going retrograde could suggest that her illness was still holding back, but going direct after that, it could well mean that the illness will advance, not getting better. Mercury is in term of Mars and Mars rules her 8th house. Also her 8th house ruler Mars is also the ruler of your sister and falls in her 4th house of endings.

Joseph's interpretation is indeed a very good and precise one, but Lillyjgc's more hopeful interpretation is one which we should definitively not put aside. What I like about that one is the comparison between the strength of the rulers involved here.

I see that the angles are fixed which could indicate that the situation remains the same momentarily. What also immediately caught my eye is that the degree of Venus, ruler of how the matter will end for you, and Mercury, ruler of her house of illness of your sister, arethe same as the Nodes and this often shows a fateful event.
The ruler of your sister is the same as the ruler of her 8th house: Mars.

NorthNode is found in the unfortunate 12th house and all three, Mercury, Venus and Nodes are Void of Course. Void of Course shows no action, so again in my opinion, there will, for the time being anyhow, be no betterment.

Venus will enter the sign of her fall so the end of the matter for you does not look very good. Venus also rules the doctor who treats your sister and this to me shows that he cannot do much for her. He probably also has to wait and see if his prescribed treatment will work or not.

Mercury rules your sisters 6th house, her illness and Mercury, when entering Libra, will get weaker and Mercury will also enter into the term of Saturn who also rules the triplicity by day in that sign. Saturn , according to Chaldean order of the placements of planets, also serves as co-significator of the 8th house (as of the 1st house), but apparently only used in medical horaries. In any case, getting into a term of a malific planet cannot really be good.

According to William Lilly, when the sign of the 6th house is a moveable sign (hers is) then the illness could be of short continuance but for the most part an alteration of the disease, and return of it again (which the retrograde movement also indicates of course). A retrograde planet also shows that an illness could extremely prolong the illness, especially with the ruler of the 6th in the 6th.(her 6th!)

When the lord of the 6th is stronger than the lord of the Ascendant, the illness is likely to increase according to W.Lilly

Mercury is strong in own sign (+5 points)but weakened by retrogradation (-5 points) and also combust by the Sun (another -5) but occidental (+2), so the illness is weak in points. Total of -3 points.

Mars, your sister, is in her 4th house, angular (+4 points) and rules the triplicity of cancer by day and night (+3 points). However, he is in fall (-4), occidental (-2). Total of -1.

So according to the accidental dignities and debilities of each planet, Mars is stronger than Mercury, but not much.

The unfortunate thing is that both are in mutual reception by term with one another. Mars in term of Merc. and Merc. in term of Mars. This is a weak mutual reception and also shows the close connection between your sister and her illness as well as the illness and death.

The Moon applying to a square aspect with the ruler of your sister (her Asc.ruler), Mars, shows, according to W.Lilly, that the illness will increase and is not yet at it's hight or full growth.

According to the "Yes or No" technique of Marc Edmund Jones, the two signifiers (ruler of house of illness and it's opposite, Mercury and Jupiter) do not make an ingoing positive aspect, so here the answer would me a "no". I am experimenting with his theories, so dont take this one as a definite thing.



[QUOTE by Lillyjgc]
Doctors/Medics ruled by h10 cusp.Saturn.Treatment by h11 cusp-
[/QUOTE]

I am not sure about this. Archergirl told me that house 7 is the treating doctor (house 6 the place, office where the doctor works) and house 10 the prescribed treatment. House 2 the medicine taken by mouth (personally I dont really understand this one).
So I will deduct following her instructions which are taken from Frawley's teachings I presume. Also the Rulership book (Rex Bills)gives the 7th to doctors, the 6th to the doctor's office. Medicinal drinks however he gives to Mercury and treatments (in general) to Venus.

The treatment prescribed is ruled by her 10th house: Saturn, in her 6th and burned by the Sun. I dont think the treatment therefore will be effective.

All in all, I think that she could have a 50/50 chance here, when looking at the strength of illness versus herself which also is the illness versus death (because Mars rules both her 8th house and herself). Problem for me is to distinguish here. When looking at Mars as being your sister, she is stronger then the illness and when we take Mars as her 8th house ruler, then Mars is stronger than the illness. So, like Lillyjcg, I also would not yet giving up all hope. Miracles do happen and I wish you and your sister all the very best and much strength for the time ahead.


Looking at it from all perspectives,

Starlink.

I guess time will tell and although according to this chart things dont look very positive, I just hope that

[smilingsteph]

One more thing I would really like for you all to notice is that leukemia can be put in remission, for many many years.....

Therefore I wouldnt necessarily treat the situation as one where she will die soon.

She could have leukemia now and then it go into remission and it may come back years down the road.....which she may not fair as well then.

So even if we say no to this question we are then playing with a timeline scenario.......

If anyone did have a timeline, are we looking at whether or not it will be soon or later....

Now that you all said she wouldnt survive, suspecting that the horary is true, then should one ethically give a timeline?

Kind of like the MD going into a patients room telling them they only have 3 months to live, and the patient then lives by this rule and ends up surviving for many years.

I ran into a situation like this, where a patient did have leukemia just weeks ago. He/she was on hospice and told he/she had a week to live. The family came in and all the prep was done. The patient told me he/she was ready to go and wanted to be with the significant other whom passed away several years ago.
Well he/she was placed in a facility as the hospital could not take the patient for too much longer because of $$$ issues. The odd part of the whole thing was that this patient took a round of chemo that actually started to work around the week he/she was told that they were going to pass away! The blood counts remained stable, and the patient was comfortable. It was great that he/she had more time with family. So this person who we all thought was going to pass is still alive 3 weeks later, comfortable and the disease is stable!


Again we come to an ethical situation.

Millionora-
I am so sorry for this horrible diagnosis for your sister and your family. I have three sisters and to hear of something like this makes me want to even make our relationships closer. Time may be on your side and I pray that the universe gives you strength to get through this time. If you ever need to talk or have any questions or anything that I may be of help with, just ask.

[millionora]

Originally Posted by smilingsteph

One more thing I would really like for you all to notice is that leukemia can be put in remission, for many many years.....

Therefore I wouldnt necessarily treat the situation as one where she will die soon.

She could have leukemia now and then it go into remission and it may come back years down the road.....which she may not fair as well then.

So even if we say no to this question we are then playing with a timeline scenario.......

If anyone did have a timeline, are we looking at whether or not it will be soon or later....

Now that you all said she wouldnt survive, suspecting that the horary is true, then should one ethically give a timeline?
Again we come to an ethical situation.

Millionora-
I am so sorry for this horrible diagnosis for your sister and your family. I have three sisters and to hear of something like this makes me want to even make our relationships closer. Time may be on your side and I pray that the universe gives you strength to get through this time. If you ever need to talk or have any questions or anything that I may be of help with, just ask.

Hello SMilingsteph,

thank you dearly for your kind words. I dont have any ethical issues about getting a right timeline in this situation (ethics are relative IMO), the fact that we are all here in search of TRUTH using astrology as a tool is enough for me.

Liiljgc and Starlink in the past i have seen and had right results from your expertise in timing within Horory. So i clearly would accept any dilineation with regards to timing as it would help me travel from where i am to where she is located. I do also beleive in miracles the fact that we are all virtually here (even on this forum) is a miracly itself, but we must use what tools we have to better our futures.

Thank you all again genuainely, this Forum has brought me solace and Truth on my journey.

I wish you all HEALTH , love,light, truth

Infinite Blessings to you all forever.

[millionora]

WHOA!!!!! OK guys, my mother just called me from the States! My sister has been MISDIAGNOSED!!! The lab tech made a FREAKIN mistake and misdiagnosed my sister!!! AFter doing many exams, tests, Cat scans and MRI's my sister just has a couple of kidney stones and that is what caused her bleeding! Un believeable! We are happy for this miracle i guess, but are completely PISSED as we were in HELL for 3 weeks...making preparations for the end...when it was a mishap....so much for health care in the States...

but we are greatful that its just kidney stones..but how can we check it all by the chart?? im just amazed! really! and am greatful that it was a major mistake on the doctors part but how can we see this from the chart???

blown away...

love,light,truth
blessings

[tikana]

okay i am floored

the misdiagnoses has to be on the chart!

your sister is 3rd house, mars
her health is her 6th which is 8th, mercury
mercury is combust and it is retro
well mercury is strong yet combust
there has to be neptune involved somewhere
i dont know where to look
it is also possible that you assumed she had it but then it is geniunly ridiculous
it is possible that you assumed that she has leukemia
so question itself may not have shown ...

whew i hate when lab technicians are screwing things up

hugs
T

[freedomlover]

Originally Posted by millionora

WHOA!!!!! OK guys, my mother just called me from the States! My sister has been MISDIAGNOSED!!! The lab tech made a FREAKIN mistake and misdiagnosed my sister!!! AFter doing many exams, tests, Cat scans and MRI's my sister just has a couple of kidney stones and that is what caused her bleeding! Un believeable! We are happy for this miracle i guess, but are completely PISSED as we were in HELL for 3 weeks...making preparations for the end...when it was a mishap....so much for health care in the States...

but we are greatful that its just kidney stones..but how can we check it all by the chart?? im just amazed! really! and am greatful that it was a major mistake on the doctors part but how can we see this from the chart???

blown away...

love,light,truth
blessings

I am SOOOOO happy for your sister and all of you! What a relief!

Let's take a look at the chart.....

Your sis is Mars in Cancer in the 4th... not sure on that meaning by the chart.... unless it shows the energetic/emotional root of the kidney stones ..... "pis*ed off". Cancer/4th house also deals with "what you need right now" - the current step you're on. Moon in Libra rules this house and disposits her sig of Mars in Cancer.

Also, what would rule bleeding? Aries planets? Mars, I think.. well, Aries is on her turned 1st cusp, and her sig is Mars, so I guess that would fit. Moon in Libra ( kidneys) squares her bleeding (Mars)?


Mercury Rx in Virgo rules her turned 6th house of health, and is in the 6th. It is going backwards, going to hit the Sun and Saturn, respective rulers of her turned 5th, 10th, and 11th (Not sure what these would mean in a medical horary, but 11th rules technology)

Mercury stationed direct at 22' Virgo, on the cusp of her 5th/6th houses. (5th house coming into play... 5th/Leo rules back... was she having back pain?) Mercury stationed exactly inconjunct to Chiron Rx in Aquarius in her turned 11th. That might show the faulty lab test?

If you look at dispositors.... Moon in Libra ( Libra ruling kidneys) is disposited by Venus at 28' Leo in her 5th. Venus rules her turned 7th- lab tech, maybe? Venus is exactly semisextile to Mercury Rx at 28' Leo/Virgo!
Semisextiles often come up when there is a "blind spot"/ something that is right there but being looked over.

Mercury just re-entered Libra in last 24 hours. I'm wondering when this was made known to her, or to you, Nora - since you asked the question. Mercury in Libra could be a message regarding the kidneys. Mercury is applying tightly to a square to Pluto in Cap. I'm finding that Pluto in Cap has something to do with the body's ability to heal/regenerate. Pluto is in her turned 9th, which some horary articles I've read attribute to the physician.

Moon in Libra's aspects: first, a square to her sig of Mars in Cancer, then a bunch of trines to the Aquarian stellium in ther turned 11th, then an inconjunct to Uranus Rx in Pisces in her turned 12th ( very descriptive!), then semisextiles to Mercury Rx, Sun, and Saturn in Virgo, then lastly... a sextile to Venus in Leo.

Leo also rules energy/chi/life force, and Venus in Leo is exactly inconjunct the NN in Cap. I wonder who that is - lab tech? Or since Venus rules health matters, it is pointing to Leo issues- back pain? robust health?

Anyway, maybe I've pointed out something useful. I really think that inconjunct to Chiron with Mercury station, and the semisextile to Venus are worthy of attention for the oversight.

FL

[smilingsteph]

Glad in my first post to you that I wrote that 10% of those diagnosed with Leukemia are misdiagnosed!

There should always be hope!

I am so happy that your sister was one of the 10%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!