Discovering my birth certificate resulted in my having a different chart!!

sunshine7 · #1 09-18-2009, 10:00 AM

Hello! Upon finding my birth certificate yesterday, I guess I realized that I had been studying the wrong natal chart for myself as the timing was off by about two hours. The strange irony I guess is that upon studying the "wrong" chart with entirely different rising and moon signs... it actually really resonated as being true for me...it made sense....it seemed to make more sense than the chart I now have before me... perhaps because I am not yet aware of the new dynamics in this new chart. I guess that the two hour difference affected the natal chart in that it moved the houses up one. I don't know what to make of that... Also, the chart which I felt more comfortable with seemed more positive and open than the one I am looking at here, So, I hope to gain some positive insights into this so that I can look at this with fresh perspective.
So, technically I am an Aries sun, Virgo ascendant and Capricorn moon.

I would really appreciate hearing any insights / observations you may have regarding my chart. I have so many questions, but what i'm wondering right now is about the Virgo ascendant with Pluto in the first house. (for years, i thought i was a Libra rising with Uranus in the first house....and that seemed right! lol) So, what am i to make of this? Also, I think that the moon would be the same as my mother's sun sign (Aquarius). My father is a Virgo sun.
I am wondering about the Pluto in the first house in Virgo, and the corresponding grand trine it forms to my moon in the 4th house (cap) and Venus and Mars in Gemini in the 10th house. and if it makes a "kite" to Neptune in the 4th.... and really, what all of those things are put together, what in the world it means! i'm confused! haha
(and then also the questions about career, marriage and children and family)

Thanks and Best Wishes :O)
-sunshine7

i'm posting a link to my chart here:
http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?r...&nhor=5&nho2=2

waybread · #2 09-19-2009, 05:07 AM

You have a really interesting chart, with 3 "kite" formations pointing to your Neptune (conjunct IC), moon, and Mercury.

I studied astrology for a while before I actually got an accurate birth time. When I did, I found that the house placements were off, but in interesting ways. I was still a "5th chord" person, in the sense that I lost my Leo ascendant, but gained a 5th house stellium that includes my sun.

Unfortunately we are all subject to the "Barnum Effect", named for the 19th century circus owner P. T. Barnum. He basically demonstrated that it is very easy to get people to believe something via the power of persuasion, whether or not it is true.

I have Virgo rising. I am a fairly analytical person. And probably one who fault-finds more than I care to admit. You could count Pluto as in your 1st house but it is so close to your 2nd that many astrologers would count it as in the second. In the first house, Pluto confers a lot of intensity and sometimes ruthlessness or secrecy about oneself.

Your chart suggests someone with a lot of interest in "occult" or metaphysical andspiritual matters. [Ruler of your chart and MC in the 8th, Neptune conjunct IC, squares to Jupiter.]

sunshine7 · #3 09-19-2009, 06:27 AM

waybread,
Thank you for your insightful reply. Yeah, it seems that there can be little bit of a blur between "who we really are" and what we regularly affirm about ourselves to be true via our thoughts and actions. To that end, I am stumped by this personal turn of events as regards finding out that which is defining who i am in Astrological terms. It is interesting that you had a similar experience as I have, and also that you are a Virgo rising as well.
As much as I do like to research endlessly all subjects of interest and like to seek answers and definitions, I have a hard time with labels because both we as individuals and the world at large are so dynamic and are constantly evolving and expressing everything in a multitude of ways at each and every moment. So, I guess the question I am asking myself right now is how to look through this new prism (the "correct" natal chart) in an open minded way without getting stuck...if that makes sense.

You happened to mention the connections between Neptune, Mercury and the Moon...I am very "mental" lol and have quite an imagination, which sometimes I prefer to my little mundane reality, and beyond that I would like to be a writer, but have not figured out a way to manifest that dream into a real tangible reality = career.... You know, the dream of actually getting paid to do whatever it is that you might love...being presented with the opportunity to be able to sustain ones self in a practical and stable way - building a foundation - while flying free creatively. lol

Cheers!
What do you think?

girlcat · #4 09-19-2009, 10:29 AM

hello sunshine,

it seems to me that with the house shift in your chart, this now places your venus/mars/saturn stellium right on top of your MC. with venus and saturn at the top of your chart and being involved in a grand trine with your new found moon in the fifth house and pluto at the end of your first and into your second.

with your moon in H5 this is a very creative placement for the moon, you have natural creative abilities and trining your venus/mars/saturn stellium on your MC looks promising that you can likely channel this as a career but may be blocked some how or lacking in follow since being involved in a grand trine and things may be too "easy" or are too comfortable with the engergies and are therefore content.

your venus/mars/saturn also suggest that you may be hesistant to turn writing into a "a real tangible reality/career" due to a fear of rejection of your expression of your talents (your writing).
trining pluto in H2, i don't really know what this means or exactly what part pluto plays in your grand trine but with virgo being your "new" ascendant and it's ruler being in H8 and sextiling your MC stellium, have you ever thought about writing about astrology perhaps?
also with your sun in H8 points to a natural inclination toward taboo & occult studies, i'd imagine you could write a good mystery book.

Lin · #5 09-19-2009, 09:02 PM

First I'd like to address the 'familiar' feeling you had with your 'wrong' chart.
No matter what time you are born (within a few hours) all the planets in your chart will aspect each other the same way...only the moon will be a tiny bit off. So you should have felt familiar with it.
I have done readings for people with NO birth time....or "during daylight" or "nighttime" as the only clues, and they identify with what I am telling them.

Where the problem comes in is if you are attempting to "time" an event using a time chart that isn't accurate. But the traits you have will be very similar either way. Of course, doing a synastry chart (someone else's planets on your chart) could give you wrong information if their planets fall in totally different houses now.

My suggestion is to get rid of...literally....all previous charts and truly begin again. Erase all references to the previous chart of you will be wasting time comparing.
Embrace your real chart.

By the way I found it SO 'on target' that in this chart Neptune falls on the 4th house cusp (personal innermost identity), and what I would find interesting would be the transits and progressed moon of the moment you opened the envelope to find your "real" birth time. It's like a new birth.
LIN

waybread · #6 09-19-2009, 09:20 PM

sunshine, you might also think about astrology as a set of labels that do or do not fit very well, vs. astrology as a more dynamic set of strategies and goals. One of my favourite astrology authors, Steven Forrest, suggests that each planet sign, and house has a kind of evolutionary goal or endpoint, a set of strategies and assets with which to achieve it, and also some likely problems or shadow-sides that can inhibit our successful navigation. Hopefully you can locate his books The Inner Sky, and The Changing Sky.

So with Virgo rising, your outer personality would seem to be on a quest for perfection. You probably want to be genuinely useful to people. You may feel that one way to do this is through your powers of discernment. Your assets are great analytical abilities. The shadow side can be simply trying to "fix" other people, whether they want it or not; or being critical of people when a more relaxed "live and let live" philosophy might better suit you.

There are some labels in here, but also a more action-oriented approach.

sunshine7 · #7 09-21-2009, 12:37 AM

Hi ! Thank you for your thoughtful insights! It helps so much.

girlcat,
i really like deep psychology. i never get bored with that subject, ever! if i am drawn to the occult in one form or fashion over the years, it truly is so that i can understand in different ways or from different perspectives my own mind and the mass consciousness (which i will never be able to understand either fully, lol, but i like to have a look at it from different angles now and again.) i am a big dreamer and want so much to try to manifest my ideals in reality.... with the goal being genuine optimism based in reality! (while looking honestly and directly at the big picture, including the dark, painful things, to see what i can learn from it and all that)
i have two questions.... what is significant about the "MC" ? would that have to do with career or general purpose?
also, as regards a grand trine, and feeling that things can sometimes be easy, and to above all feel content.... (sometimes contentment can be a huge blessing, like peace of mind and gratitude for what i may have , however little it may be, and just really sitting here in the moment.) this feeling, of course is fleeting, however lol ...but at the same time, i would think that one would need a breather from constant struggle, and that that sort of inner safety and peace is what would really form a foundation for a person to do something new and creative, whatever it may be.
i dunno, what do you think.

also, there is some sort of weird action with having the grand trine as well as a grand cross or square. there are and have certainly been swings to both extremes... luxury to abject hardship , glorious ecstatic, blissful joy to morbid aching depression seemingly without hope. I think that to one extent or another, this is a part of the human experience for all of us in one way or another.
i haven't figured out what to do with the writing...
i don't know right now.

sunshine7 · #8 09-21-2009, 12:43 AM

Hi Lin,

"My suggestion is to get rid of...literally....all previous charts and truly begin again. Erase all references to the previous chart of you will be wasting time comparing.
Embrace your real chart."

I am trying to do a lot more research about the "real chart". I kind of have mixed feelings about it right now, but maybe i will understand it better over time.

"By the way I found it SO 'on target' that in this chart Neptune falls on the 4th house cusp (personal innermost identity), and what I would find interesting would be the transits and progressed moon of the moment you opened the envelope to find your "real" birth time. It's like a new birth."
LIN[/QUOTE]

it's funny you should mention that, i was wondering the same thing lol. I think that I made that discovery on Monday afternoon (the 14th sept.) and even funnier is that shortly after i discovered the shattering new info, when i tried to log on to this website, i was unable to. i tried a whole bunch of times, and my computer was suggesting that this site was temporarily down or couldn't connect to it . lol

sunshine7 · #9 09-21-2009, 12:48 AM

"

Quote:

Originally Posted by waybread

sunshine, you might also think about astrology as a set of labels that do or do not fit very well, vs. astrology as a more dynamic set of strategies and goals. One of my favourite astrology authors, Steven Forrest, suggests that each planet sign, and house has a kind of evolutionary goal or endpoint, a set of strategies and assets with which to achieve it, and also some likely problems or shadow-sides that can inhibit our successful navigation. Hopefully you can locate his books The Inner Sky, and The Changing Sky."

Hi Waybread! thank you. i will check out that author.

"So with Virgo rising, your outer personality would seem to be on a quest for perfection. You probably want to be genuinely useful to people. You may feel that one way to do this is through your powers of discernment. Your assets are great analytical abilities. The shadow side can be simply trying to "fix" other people, whether they want it or not; or being critical of people when a more relaxed "live and let live" philosophy might better suit you.

There are some labels in here, but also a more action-oriented approach.

"

I think you are spot on right about that. No, I know that the real work I have to do is on myself, and that everyone is doing the best they can with what they have in this moment and that is , i guess, all we can do.

astrologer50 · #10 09-22-2009, 03:12 PM

Well over the past two years or so T Saturn has been going over your Asc and will soon conj Pluto in late 1st. Now I use Equal house system and Pluto is still in 1st,normally if it's within 5' of next cusp it's considered as having more effect in the next house, but to me in Equal it's 6' away. I call this the plutonic lid, always something held back, privacy, secretative, deeply analaytical but a 'worrier' churns things over and over and can cause stomach ulcers and mental stress.

YOu have a lot of squares to your Asc and well worth researching further. Neptune square Asc (I have this one) can cause a bit of identity crises in teenage years. Mars square Asc, Saturn square Asc
http://cafeastrology.com/natal/plane...astrology.html

Your sun only has one aspect an opp to Uranus which is basically impatience but will act as singleton as least aspected planet, placed in 8th house of secretive scorpio
Below is the modern and traditional meanings of 8th house, see which you resonate with....
http://www.astrology.com/aboutastrol...es/house8.html
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h8.html

sunshine7 · #11 09-26-2009, 07:58 AM

hi... thank you for your reply.

i looked at some of the neat links you provided.
i have been reading here and there about this chart... and i just don't know what to make of it , yet. who would think that finding out that i had been studying and relating to the wrong chart would be such a big deal....
it is weird. i don't know where to begin. I guess i'll come back to it when i'm ready. i am feeling really skeptical about astrology right now.

peace.