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  #1  
Old 09-03-2009, 11:41 PM
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The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

Western astrologers generally consider the Sun as the most important planet in a natal chart.

Some use the chart ruler, some the most elevated planet, while others, the final dispositor.

Vedic astrology emphasizes the Moon.

Ultimately, there can only be one right answer, so what planet is the most important in a natal chart, and why?

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Old 09-04-2009, 12:16 AM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

The answer is:

It depends on each individual chart.
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Old 09-04-2009, 05:03 AM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

I would have to agree with Frank.

If you type in on a google search, for example, any famous person (it doesn't matter how they became famous, just that they have the notoriety to be visible in a search) then click on a link that features their name via an "astrotheme.com" link, you'll see, when you scroll down, a bar chart that shows which planets are more dominant than others in their natal chart. In my opinion, this tends to show which planets are the most significant. I had been trying to see if there was a free sample version, since I've had my chart done and interpreted professionally twice now and only needed to know which planets were dominant. However, given what a friend shared with me, I believe I already know. Still, it would be nice to confirm it.

A while ago, there was a briefly heated discussion on another thread about the Sun being the most significant, citing a link between astronomy and astrology, but as I saw it, the size and non-astrological impact had little, if no bearing on its astrological influence.

As for how--given one's natal chart and the aspects involved--dominance is calculated, at the moment that feels beyond my knowledge, although I'd be very anxious to learn.

Longer answer to a shorter question, lol.
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:42 PM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

Even I would like to learn
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Old 09-04-2009, 02:55 PM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

Like you said, it depends on which system for evaluation to follow, ie: vedic, western, Traditional astrology, modern astrology, a point system.

To me the 3most important are sun, moon and Asc...
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Old 09-04-2009, 07:58 PM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

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Like you said, it depends on which system for evaluation to follow, ie: vedic, western, Traditional astrology, modern astrology, a point system.

To me the 3most important are sun, moon and Asc...
Thank you for being open; and God bless you for taking a stand!

Naturally, each individual chart should be considered; but in general, I will say the Sun is the most important planet. It's sign, location and aspects are most telling, if you could choose no other information to have.

I was very close to saying the final dispositor, but I am going to stick with Sun.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:18 PM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

Here's a post I made a while back in a similar thread that I thought was gone forever - but it appears starlink rescued it. I found it by searching some terms I knew I used in the post. It's not just as simple as picking one "most important planet" and sticking with it.

Here it is:

In Classical astrology (and I'm going to talk about some Hellenistic stuff also here), there are several methods to determine the most important planet(s) in a chart.

The simplest is to just use the ascendant Domicile ruler as the "chart ruler."

An alternative is to use the Almuten ruler of the rising degree - which can differ from the Domicile ruler due to other dignities.

If a chart does have a Final Dispositor (the ONLY planet in its own Domicile with no Mutual Receptions by Domicile), it is considered very important.

Also, the planet highest in Essential Dignity should be considered, as well as Accidental Dignity.

Hellenistic tradition places great emphasis on the Sect Light (sometimes called the Predominator) - the Sun in a daytime chart and the Moon in a nighttime chart.

There is also what the Hellenists call the Oikodespotes, or domicile master - which is the Domicile ruler of the Sect Light (as long as it isn't placed in a cadent house, then you take the opposite light, Moon by day and Sun by night - if both are cadent, use Fortune). In the nautical metaphor, this is the owner of the "ship" of the nativity.

The Kurios (captain of the ship) is the one that executes the orders or agenda of the Oikodespotes (owner). The Kurios is determined by these criteria:

1. Planets in the bounds (terms) of the ascending degree
2. Domicile ruler of the the ascendant
3. Moon and its Domicile ruler
4. The tenth sign from the ascendant and its domocile ruler
5. Fortune and its Domicile ruler
6. Planets in Phasis (heliacal rising up to first station or from second station up to the heliacal setting)
7. The bound (term) ruler of the Lunation prior to birth

Each of the Hellenistic determinations depend completely on its fitness to perform based on other factors, such as not being cadent, in Essential Dignity, Sect, etc.

In brief, determining the "Most Important Planet" can be quite a complex business for some charts, but less so for others. Astrologers throughout the ages have devised many differing systems for deterning important planets, from Ptolemy and Valens, Bonatti and Al Biruni, Lilly and Gadbury, and Forrest and Marks.

There really is no cohesive way for *every* astrologer to agree on what constitutes the most "important planet" in a chart. However, in my opinion, the farther back you go, the more interesting an illuminating the techniques are.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:35 PM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post
Here's a post I made a while back in a similar thread that I thought was gone forever - but it appears starlink rescued it. I found it by searching some terms I knew I used in the post. It's not just as simple as picking one "most important planet" and sticking with it....

...In brief, determining the "Most Important Planet" can be quite a complex business for some charts, but less so for others. Astrologers throughout the ages have devised many differing systems for deterning important planets, from Ptolemy and Valens, Bonatti and Al Biruni, Lilly and Gadbury, and Forrest and Marks.

There really is no cohesive way for *every* astrologer to agree on what constitutes the most "important planet" in a chart. However, in my opinion, the farther back you go, the more interesting an illuminating the techniques are.
Thank you for digging for all of this information, Frank and Starlink.

I have read some of your prior posts; and recognize you are an advanced astrologer, so if you HAD to choose one planet, which one? Or, which planet in your chart is responsible for your own unwillingness to choose?

I love techniques; but I really enjoy seeing what people actually use most in practice. Truth-be-told, the more I learn, the more I realize that there is something exceptionally relevant to basic astrological simplicity, beginning with your Sun sign.
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Old 09-04-2009, 10:12 PM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

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Originally Posted by MamaMinnee View Post
I have read some of your prior posts; and recognize you are an advanced astrologer, so if you HAD to choose one planet, which one? Or, which planet in your chart is responsible for your own unwillingness to choose?
It varies based on the each individual birth chart - and some charts won't even have one "most important planet" - they'll have two or even more. It's not an "unwillingness to choose" - but a willingness to delve deeper into a chart than saying "The Sun is the most important planet in any chart."

In some charts, the Sun might well be the most important planet - if it is in a day chart, high in Essential Dignity, has Dignity in the rising sign/degree, and is in an angular or succedent house.

In a night chart, the Moon would take precedence over the Sun if it is well placed or not debilitated, and has dignity in the rising sign/degree.

Normally, if the Domicile Ruler of the rising sign is well placed by both essential and accidental dignities, that would be the most important point in the chart. If not, then final/multiple dispositors and mutual receptions by Domicile would be considered.

As an example, take my chart (it's in my profile, if you want to look at it). It's a Night chart, and my Sun is placed in Aquarius, Peregrine, in the 2nd House. It has no Essential Diginity and therefore it is not a comfortable placement.

My Moon fares somewhat better. She is the Sect Light in a Night Chart, in Virgo and therefore in Triplicity - but she's in the 8th House in Regiomontanus and the 9th in Whole-Sign houses. So not a good placement in the 8th, and Cadent if considered in the 9th.

Mercury is the Domicile ruler of the Sect Light, but he is in Detriment, Fall, and Peregrine in Pisces. Not much help there. Since the Sect Light would be considered cadent by the Hellenists, the Oikodespotes would then be based on the Light out of Sect. We'll get back to that.

Looking at Essential Dignities, my highest-ranked planets are Jupiter in Sagittarius, in Domicile and Triplicity (+8 - according to Lilly), Mars in Capricorn in Exaltation and Term (+6), and Saturn in Capricorn in Domicile (+5).

However, Jupiter is cadent in the 12th House - so although he's comfortable, he really can't operate very well.

Mars in Capricorn, in Exaltation and Term, is very strong and angular - a very good candidate for the strongest planet.

Saturn in Capricorn is within a degree of the Capricorn ascendant, in the same Term.

The Almuten of the ascendant is a tie between Mars and Saturn.

However - remember what I mentioned about the Sun determining the Oikodespotes in a chart where the Moon as Sect Light is Cadent? With the Sun in Aquarius, Saturn becomes the Oikodespotes. And also the Kurios by virtue of it's position in the Term of the ascendant and other factors.

So Saturn turns out to be the most important planet in my chart, followed closely by Mars, then Jupiter, then the Moon. The Sun isn't really all that important in my chart.

I hope this example clarifies things for you a bit.
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Old 09-05-2009, 12:44 AM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

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It varies based on the each individual birth chart - and some charts won't even have one "most important planet" - they'll have two or even more. It's not an "unwillingness to choose" - but a willingness to delve deeper into a chart than saying "The Sun is the most important planet in any chart."....

....So Saturn turns out to be the most important planet in my chart, followed closely by Mars, then Jupiter, then the Moon. The Sun isn't really all that important in my chart.

I hope this example clarifies things for you a bit.
It sounds so complex, so educated--I am impressed; and I do not mean it facetiously.

But, to me, you could simplify it with: you are an Aquarius Sun and your dispositor (or co, if you roll like that) is Saturn; and therefore important. To me, the Sun still ultimately tells the story.

And, Aquarius Sun astrologer--that is practically cliché.

But, I do LOVE the breakdown you so graciously took the time to post.

Thank you.
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Old 09-05-2009, 02:14 AM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

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But, to me, you could simplify it with: you are an Aquarius Sun and your dispositor (or co, if you roll like that) is Saturn; and therefore important. To me, the Sun still ultimately tells the story.
No, it's not quite that simple. Had I had the same chart, but with the Sun in Pisces and keeping the same angles and approximate placements, Saturn would still have been the most important planet - not Jupiter.
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Old 09-05-2009, 12:14 PM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

Thanks for the link ... I am exploring it !
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Old 09-06-2009, 12:29 PM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

Haizea, thank you for the site, it's really great! The issue about the most important planet in a chart has been bugging me for some time now, and the more I read, the harder I find it to make up my mind about which is it. I wonder whether some of you have used Walter Pullen's Astrolog programme - it's available on astro.com. There the power of each planet is being calculated according to its placement by house, sign and aspects. Still, I am not sure whether this is the most precise method. The site Haizea has posted shows very different results from those in Astrolog (in my case). I've always thought that the sun is the most prominent planet in my chart as long as I am leo with leo asc, yet my sun is "imprisoned" in the 12th house which makes great difference. So, in my case the rule that the chart ruler is the most prominent and important planet is not applicable. I begin to think that mercury is the strongest being in the 1 house in virgo which rules my moon, mars and venus. Still, I have some doubts about Jupiter and Saturn, since Jupiter is the only planet in the south hemisphere, apart from the sun in the 12, and the highest point in my chart, yet it receives very negative influences from saturn, moon, uranus and neptune. It's really very complicated
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Old 09-06-2009, 05:17 PM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

Just to add a little more into the cake mix--- midpoints espec Asc/MC and sun/moon are the most important. I have my chart ruler Uranus conj sun/moon and mercury conj Asc/Mc along with Ceres....

So, if you cannot find, explain certain things within a chart after all the usual protocols, go look at these midpoints and any planets conj cos it will explain matters or perhaps why you identify so much with a certain planets and it's energies..
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Old 09-15-2009, 02:43 PM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

All my planets are important. But for me, it's Saturn because it's opposing most of my planets on the MC. But that's just my interpretation of my chart.

A seasoned astrologer gave me some good advice.. If the handle (Saturn) of your chart (bucket/funnel) isn't focused on, none of the other planets can adequately be expressed.

This is an art not a science. I interpret it subjectively.
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Old 09-15-2009, 03:34 PM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

If one planet in particular is highly aspected, that seems to "weight" it, so to speak and one's focus definitely turns there (if it's the apex of a T square, for example).

I tend to look at the chart's ruler, planets on angles, along with very highly aspected planets, when considering the most important planet.

If a planet is angular and highly aspected, to me, it's the most important planet (and will over-ride the chart ruler).

If there's nothing much happening in a chart (no angular planets and no highly aspected planets) then I'd say the chart ruler is the most important planet.
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Old 10-09-2009, 08:02 PM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

I never implied that Hellenistic techniques used a point scheme.

I'm glad you are studying Hellenistic methods Joseph. I've been familar with the material for quite a while and was at the 1992 UAC where the seeds of Project Hindsight were sown.

I also was at Matrix Software in 1997-98 and worked directly with Robert Schmidt on the original Project Hindsight software, editing the help files and explanatory materials.

However, do do NOT practice strictly Hellenistic techniques. Just as I hope my doctor doesn't use strictly Hippocratic medical techniques.
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Old 10-10-2009, 03:07 AM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

I applaud those of you who have mastered traditional astrology.

But honestly, Joseph, there is no evidence that the people who developed it were divinely inspired or prophetic, however. Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos, just for example, contains a lot of material that seems laughable today. Take a look at his material on national character, or what astrological configurations produce temple robbers. The Renaissance astrologers sometimes made serious mistakes that have been recorded in the history books. The Bible itself makes a mockery of the "Chaldeans", whose predictions could be instantly overturned by God.

The idea that modern astrology is reduced to psychological astrology is simply incorrect. Yes, the influence of Liz Greene, Howard Sasportas et al., has been pronounced, but many fine modern astrologers have no background in psychology. They seemingly are astute judges of human nature and common sense, nonetheless.

As a modern astrologer with a lot of respect for historical antecedants, I would ask, Mama, "Why ask this question about the 'most important planet'? What is behind it?"

To me, the "most important planet" depends upon what kind of question you are asking. Is it about someone's personality/character, love life, money, or ideal career? Synastry? The year ahead? Her grandmother's missing car keys?

Depending upon what you wish to learn from a horoscope, the planets will more or less assume prominence or less significance.

I do think that too few modern astrologers work with planetary rulerships, which are really helpful for examining all kinds of phenomena.

The "most important planets" are also heavily culturally dependent. Today, the sun is one's identity. But now and especially in the past, it could also represent one's monarch, father, or husband (for women.)

So no, there is no "one right answer."

But this is a super question, Mama, in asking responders to think through their own beliefs about horoscope interpretation!

Last edited by waybread; 10-10-2009 at 03:15 AM.
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Old 10-10-2009, 08:33 AM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

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Originally Posted by MamaMinnee View Post
Western astrologers generally consider the Sun as the most important planet in a natal chart.

Some use the chart ruler, some the most elevated planet, while others, the final dispositor.

Vedic astrology emphasizes the Moon.

Ultimately, there can only be one right answer, so what planet is the most important in a natal chart, and why?
As you have seen there is a diversity of different kinds of astrologers here on AW and some will always use posts as a platform or soap box for espousing their systems views etc. I am of the opinion that people can make their own mind up with the correct information/links

House systems Traditional v Modern
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8463
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_astrology


Traditional astrologer mainly do 'horary astrology' cos different rules apply, but rememeber they don't go past or use any planets after Saturn!

Going back to your questions of only one right answer, it's not quite that simply as you have seen...
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Old 10-10-2009, 08:58 AM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

Hi MamaMinnee,

I don't think there is just "one" important planet in a horoscope. For sure, the important ones would be the lights (or life forces), the Sun and the Moon (like astrologer50 said), followed by the major angles - ASC, IC, DSC and MC. The most elevated planet is also known to have considerable strength, especially if it is aligned with the MC (by either declination or longitude), since it is the direct pathway from which the soul entered this world from the universe.

Planets in cardinal houses are stronger than those in the fixed and mutable houses. A planet that makes strong aspects the Sun and Moon is also strong. Also a planet that makes strong aspects to many other planets within the horoscope (including the Sun, Moon and angles), because it constantly shows up in what one thinks, does or is involved in.

I know it's not just one planet that I mentioned, but I hope this answer helps. Perhaps it can provide you with clues - or visual corroboration - as to why you may feel a planet(s) in your chart is the strongest.

Best,

A.T.
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:24 PM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

One must take in the entirety of the natal chart for proper evaluation. How could one say that the eyes are more important hat the nose or visa versa? However, the emphasis will be notably marked by the predominance of sign, chart, degree and positional location of the ascendent's ruling planet since this IS the mask of personality we are ripping away this time around.
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:34 PM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

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I would have to agree with Frank.

If you type in on a google search, for example, any famous person (it doesn't matter how they became famous, just that they have the notoriety to be visible in a search) then click on a link that features their name via an "astrotheme.com" link, you'll see, when you scroll down, a bar chart that shows which planets are more dominant than others in their natal chart. In my opinion, this tends to show which planets are the most significant. I had been trying to see if there was a free sample version, since I've had my chart done and interpreted professionally twice now and only needed to know which planets were dominant. However, given what a friend shared with me, I believe I already know. Still, it would be nice to confirm it.

A while ago, there was a briefly heated discussion on another thread about the Sun being the most significant, citing a link between astronomy and astrology, but as I saw it, the size and non-astrological impact had little, if no bearing on its astrological influence.

As for how--given one's natal chart and the aspects involved--dominance is calculated, at the moment that feels beyond my knowledge, although I'd be very anxious to learn.

Longer answer to a shorter question, lol.
Here you're implying that fame is the most important aspect of one's life.

That just isn't so
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:23 PM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

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Here you're implying that fame is the most important aspect of one's life.

That just isn't so
Read again what I typed. To make it easier, I'll italicize and place in bold print so you see that the focus wasn't on fame, but why I used famous people to see what planets were considered dominant, as a reference for studying. Big difference:

"If you type in on a google search, for example, any famous person (it doesn't matter how they became famous, just that they have the notoriety to be visible in a search)"

And not every "famous person"'s birth time will be known and listed, so atrotheme.com uses 12:00 noon by default. But those seem less reliable since they don't have the exact birth time. The point was using a famous person as a starting point since their charts will be easier to locate. Granted, you can practice with a family member's chart since they or someone in the family will have their birth information. But can you find any not-so-famous neighbor's chart (online or otherwise) if you don't have their birth information readily available?

No, fame isn't the most important aspect of a person's life. Nor was I implying it was. Please read carefully before putting words in my mouth, then criticizing the very words you put there. Thanks.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:59 AM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

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Read again what I typed. To make it easier, I'll italicize and place in bold print so you see that the focus wasn't on fame, but why I used famous people to see what planets were considered dominant, as a reference for studying. Big difference:

"If you type in on a google search, for example, any famous person (it doesn't matter how they became famous, just that they have the notoriety to be visible in a search)"

And not every "famous person"'s birth time will be known and listed, so atrotheme.com uses 12:00 noon by default. But those seem less reliable since they don't have the exact birth time. The point was using a famous person as a starting point since their charts will be easier to locate. Granted, you can practice with a family member's chart since they or someone in the family will have their birth information. But can you find any not-so-famous neighbor's chart (online or otherwise) if you don't have their birth information readily available?

No, fame isn't the most important aspect of a person's life. Nor was I implying it was. Please read carefully before putting words in my mouth, then criticizing the very words you put there. Thanks.
A simple misunderstanding. Relax, I wasn't being that critical

What you're saying makes sense, famous people are a great pool of raw astrological data.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:43 AM
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Re: The Most Important Planet in a Natal Chart

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Originally Posted by Paula Andrea Pyle View Post
One must take in the entirety of the natal chart for proper evaluation. How could one say that the eyes are more important hat the nose or visa versa? However, the emphasis will be notably marked by the predominance of sign, chart, degree and positional location of the ascendent's ruling planet since this IS the mask of personality we are ripping away this time around.
certainly agree, but would also add that when someone doesn't identify with their chart, to look at parallels in declination. A recent thread, post 7 nailed it..

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