Aries or Pisces Rising and is it a T or a Cross?

[Coyote]

Hello... This is my first post on this forum, but I look forward to becoming an active member. About a year ago, I bought the Only Astrology Book You'll Ever Need by Woolfolk. I cast my chart, but if she mentioned daylight savings when calculating the rising sign, I missed it and didn't think of it on my own. I showed to be right smack in the middle of the Aries band. Astroadvice.com also said that my rising sign was Aries when I chose Equal House system to be used in calculating it. I read my profile, thought it was real interesting (and accurate) and then got distracted. I put the book away and didn't get it out again for a while.

Three days ago, I was seized by a sudden compulsion to learn more about astrology. I downloaded a demo version of Astrology Explorer 3D and calculated my chart again with the computer this time. Default House was the Placidus House system. It told my my rising sign was Pisces. Every house system it gave me as an option says Pisces is my rising sign, except Equal House 0 Degrees Aries=First House Cusp. I can see that this rotates everything slightly to put Aries on the Cusp. It's not a big shift, because Aries is nearly there already. And yet, to put Aries on the Ascendant in Placidus, I have to shift my birth time forward 19 minutes.

This is a concern for me, because I only slightly relate to Pisces Rising, but strongly relate to Aries Rising. I'm inclined to consider myself Aries Rising, because I do relate strongly it. I identify so much more with Aries that I almost wonder if the time is recorded wrong on my birth certificate (unlikely, I know). Because I'm such a novice, I don't know how much importance to put on the fact that Aries was technically 19 minutes away still when I was born. Rising sign is of enough importance that I don't want to be operating under an erroneous assumption as I continue to explore my natal chart, especially since the ascendant is involved in what looks to me to be either a T or a grand cross (Neptune shows to be in opposition to Mars, which is square to the ascendant and the sun--although Neptune itself doesn't show to be square with the sun and the ascendant. Again, my lack of experience makes me unsure what to make of that).

I'm attaching my natal chart. Any advice on what to make of it would be much appreciated. Thank you!

[gaer]

Originally Posted by Coyote

Hello... This is my first post on this forum, but I look forward to becoming an active member. About a year ago, I bought the Only Astrology Book You'll Ever Need by Woolfolk. I cast my chart, but if she mentioned daylight savings when calculating the rising sign, I missed it and didn't think of it on my own. I showed to be right smack in the middle of the Aries band. Astroadvice.com also said that my rising sign was Aries when I chose Equal House system to be used in calculating it. I read my profile, thought it was real interesting (and accurate) and then got distracted. I put the book away and didn't get it out again for a while.

Three days ago, I was seized by a sudden compulsion to learn more about astrology. I downloaded a demo version of Astrology Explorer 3D and calculated my chart again with the computer this time. Default House was the Placidus House system. It told my my rising sign was Pisces. Every house system it gave me as an option says Pisces is my rising sign, except Equal House 0 Degrees Aries=First House Cusp. I can see that this rotates everything slightly to put Aries on the Cusp. It's not a big shift, because Aries is nearly there already. And yet, to put Aries on the Ascendant in Placidus, I have to shift my birth time forward 19 minutes.

This is a concern for me, because I only slightly relate to Pisces Rising, but strongly relate to Aries Rising. I'm inclined to consider myself Aries Rising, because I do relate strongly it. I identify so much more with Aries that I almost wonder if the time is recorded wrong on my birth certificate (unlikely, I know). Because I'm such a novice, I don't know how much importance to put on the fact that Aries was technically 19 minutes away still when I was born. Rising sign is of enough importance that I don't want to be operating under an erroneous assumption as I continue to explore my natal chart, especially since the ascendant is involved in what looks to me to be either a T or a grand cross (Neptune shows to be in opposition to Mars, which is square to the ascendant and the sun--although Neptune itself doesn't show to be square with the sun and the ascendant. Again, my lack of experience makes me unsure what to make of that).

I'm attaching my natal chart. Any advice on what to make of it would be much appreciated. Thank you!

According to birth data given, your rising sign is what the chart says: 22Pis25.

Equal house will not change the rising sign.

All sources show that DST existed where you were born. Did you get your birth time from a birth certificate?

[Coyote]

I did get the time off my birth certificate. I wonder if the reason I relate to Aries is because that is what is in my first house, which I understand is your house of self? Might this be it? Perhaps the reason I don't relate so much to Pisces rising descriptions is that Capricorn Moon somehow mutes it? Because I do relate a little, but for the most part it seems... off. Although I'm highly intuitive, I'm not particularly emotional nor am I prone rose colored glasses.

[katydid]

I can see why you would feel an affinity with the Aries rising option. The co-ruler of your Pisces ascendant, Jupiter, is in your first house in Aries. And the other ruler, Neptune, is in the 9th in Sag, another fire influence. So your Pisces asc is modified by both rulers being in fire signs and houses. That adds a major Aries overlay to the Pisces.

[astrologer50]

Welcome,

Using solar arcs to check the time of birth then... SA Mars conjuncts IC/home roots age between 8.5 -9years old then, did your family relocate, was one parent much more aggressive, strict, were there fights going?
Age 28 SA Asc conj Jupiter 1st house. Did you start travelling, higher education, become much more sociable and at same time more direct and too the point (aries). Age 14 SA MC conj moon --- house move? Age 17 SA Neptune conj MC anyone pass away? did you separate from parents around that age? any mysterious illnesses going on?

It may well be that your Asc progressed very quickly into Aries in childhood, do you have any typical scars on your face/head at all?

Technically the Asc cannot be involved in a Grand square, but it may feel like that but it's not a planet and it has to be 4planets all square to each other. I have Grand square involving Asc and anything going over my Asc if very sensitive cos it 'sets off'/creates into a Grand square. This would be good for rectification purposes. Espec watch for T mars and merc crossing Asc cos these I have found are really noticeable and should help...

[Coyote]

Thank you, everyone, for the responses. It has really helped.

Katydid said: I can see why you would feel an affinity with the Aries rising option. The co-ruler of your Pisces ascendant, Jupiter, is in your first house in Aries. And the other ruler, Neptune, is in the 9th in Sag, another fire influence. So your Pisces asc is modified by both rulers being in fire signs and houses. That adds a major Aries overlay to the Pisces.

This never occurred to me, but it makes a lot of sense. Astrology really requires me to learn to think in a new way. I read the description of people born on the cusp of Aries and Pisces last night, because even though I'm not born on the cusp, I thought it would help me to see how Aries and Pisces look when they are blended. Both descriptions fit me to a T.

Astrologer50 said:Welcome,

Using solar arcs to check the time of birth then... SA Mars conjuncts IC/home roots age between 8.5 -9years old then, did your family relocate, was one parent much more aggressive, strict, were there fights going?

Yes on both and it was HIGHLY traumatic on me. My parents had a business that allowed us to be living in a very nice upper middle class area. We'd gone from ghetto in my pre-school years, to middle class suburb to a huge back yard that was landscaped like a park. Then when I was about 8.5, the business failed. My parents were back to stressing out about money and we moved to a working class neighborhood. The stressful part is that the entire new school totally rejected me on sight. I'm not sure why, but I suspect they took my uncertainty and shyness in my new environment as snottiness. Anyway, during this time is when my mom really started becoming rigid and obsessive, traits that only increased as time went by.

Age 28 SA Asc conj Jupiter 1st house. Did you start travelling, higher education, become much more sociable and at same time more direct and too the point (aries).

Yes, again. This is about the time I started being very blunt. It used to be that I considered everything I said before I said it. Absolutely everything. About this time some switch got flicked in my head and suddenly I was extremely blunt and what my mom called "crude". It was a shock for me, as well as everyone else, and I had to learn to reign it in. I'm still very blunt by nature but I've learned to control it so my relationships are less strained. It was shortly after this I picked up and moved to Texas, very abruptly, with nothing but what I could fit in my luggage for the plain trip.

Age 14 SA MC conj moon --- house move?


No... but I did a summer foreign exchange program in Europe. This was about the most harmonious time my family life ever had.

By the time I was 15, my mom had a mental episode and started homeschooling me. During this time she was convinced she was talking to God, she had a false pregnancy, and she told me I was going to marry one of the New Kids on the Block. I was very isolated from 15-17.

Age 17 SA Neptune conj MC anyone pass away? did you separate from parents around that age? any mysterious illnesses going on?


Unfortunately, I didn't separate from my parents at this time. I wish I had. What happened is that my dad finally convinced my mom she was talking to the devil, and not God and it was time to go back to church. Consequently, I escaped the house and went back to being a semi-normal teenager. It was, however, sort of a spiritual death for my family. As bad as it was to go through my mom's break with reality, it was harder on all of us to deal with the aftermath. It was a tough lesson for me as a child.

It may well be that your Asc progressed very quickly into Aries in childhood, do you have any typical scars on your face/head at all?


No, but I had a "number nine" scar on my bum for a long time, does that count? It was from the medical equipment used in my birth. I was born breach so what should have been on my head was on my butt. Speaking of which, would being born bum first have any relevance on my astrology, since my behind was the first part of me to interact with the cosmos? LOL.

Technically the Asc cannot be involved in a Grand square, but it may feel like that but it's not a planet and it has to be 4planets all square to each other. I have Grand square involving Asc and anything going over my Asc if very sensitive cos it 'sets off'/creates into a Grand square. This would be good for rectification purposes. Espec watch for T mars and merc crossing Asc cos these I have found are really noticeable and should help...

Ah, okay. I hadn't realized it didn't count if it wasn't a planet. That is very good to know. So I need to be paying attention to what planets cross the ascendant, as this can make me feel like I have a grand square? I don't really understand transits yet, so need to ask--is this something that happens once a day as they are rising on the eastern horizon? Or is it something that happens when the planet actually transits some sector? I'm having trouble sorting that out in my head.

[astrologer50]

I don't really understand transits yet, so need to ask--is this something that happens once a day as they are rising on the eastern horizon? Or is it something that happens when the planet actually transits some sector? I'm having trouble sorting that out in my head.

http://cafeastrology.com/predictiveastrology.html

At the top of every forum are 'sticky' and these advise, inform and guide you to information, how to's and links. We also have an Education forum, Recommendations forum for books software and alike....

It's usually from mars onwards and especially the outer planets if you want to become a modern astrologer like myself.

House systems Traditional v Modern
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8463

Researching rulers of houses will help you understand more where I joining the dots so to speak
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/rulersofhousesinhouses.html

Your natal chart is like a photograph as unique as your fingerprint, BUT the 10planets in the sky have not stayed where they were in your natal chart, they have all moved. Predictive astrology is mostly maths where those 10planets are now and the mathematical aspects they make to your natal charts ie: 180'=opposition, 90'=square, 60'=sextile and 120'=trine.

So your personality, grows, develops, changes, matures as we get older, this is reflected by your sun sign changing from it's natal position to the next sign along, so does your Asc and MC sign change. In fact from sun to mars espec are important, as the outer planets really don't move much, using a 'day for a year' secondary progressions.

If you want to research more into Secondary progressions try here
http://cafeastrology.com/secondaryprogressions.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression

No, but I had a "number nine" scar on my bum for a long time, does that count?

Sorry no, not usually but am sure someone here will contradict me...

http://www.cafeastrology.com/pisces_...isingsign.html

Just to throw something else into the mix, you use the default how system called Placidus, I use Equal house system....
Lots of people that come into Astrology get their free charts calculated at www.astro.com and the default ‘house system’ used is Placidus and think that’s just the norm and all that there is……..BUT that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can change the default on astro.com in Extended Chart selection to Equal house and a few more.

Throughout the forums but mainly in natal astrology there are two main branches Placidus (unequal size houses) v Equal House (whereby each house is same size) but lots more……. For more information on these go here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(astrology)#Description
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm

It's only with study and research will you be able to assess where your planets are deposited and in which houses... thus see which 'glove fits'

[Coyote]

Thank you... I've got so much to learn. This is all so complex.

Hmmm... I'm sure my butt first birth MUST have some sort of cosmic profundity. Since I entered the world "moon" first, maybe this means my moon takes the lead in other areas of my life? LOL. Just kidding.

[katydid]

Originally Posted by Coyote

Thank you... I've got so much to learn. This is all so complex.

Hmmm... I'm sure my butt first birth MUST have some sort of cosmic profundity. Since I entered the world "moon" first, maybe this means my moon takes the lead in other areas of my life? LOL. Just kidding.

Actually, it would be indicative of your Pisces ascendant. The asc describes one's birth, and Aries, the 'natural' asc, describes the optimum, of a crowning head, at birth.
Of course Pisces, being the very tail end of the zodiac, and being accused quite often of being late and confused , would appear at their incarnation , ashfirst.

[Coyote]

Originally Posted by katydid

Actually, it would be indicative of your Pisces ascendant. The asc describes one's birth, and Aries, the 'natural' asc, describes the optimum, of a crowning head, at birth.
Of course Pisces, being the very tail end of the zodiac, and being accused quite often of being late and confused , would appear at their incarnation , ashfirst.

ROTFL! Ashfirst, confused and late, just as described. My mom went into labor three days before I was born, but every time they gave her pain medication, labor stopped. So it was three days of "is she coming or isn't she?" I finally did get my err... butt in gear, though.

[Arian Maverick]

Yes, I must agree this sounds like a Piscean birth. To provide a means of comparison, my Aries birth was precipitated by an overdose of pitocin, which launched me into the world. This is quite different than a three-day protracted labor...

As Katydid indicated, your Ascendant ruler is located in the first house in Aries, which certainly gives an Aries flavor. Curiously enough, Aries is intercepted in your first house using the Placidus house system; a planet located in an intercepted sign often does not have the ease of a planet in a non-intercepted sign. Nevertheless, some astrologers use the ruler of an intercepted sign in the first house as a kind of co-ruler for the significator in a horary chart, although I'm not certain if one would apply this rule to a natal chart.

As far as your uncertainty regarding your time of birth, it's been my experience that the recorded birth time is often slightly later than the actual birth time, unless the clock in the delivery room is fast. Therefore, it seems likely that you have a Pisces Ascendant, unless there was some confusion with Daylight Savings Time.

It may be worth noting that Mars, the ruler of Aries, forms some significant aspects to personal planets in your natal chart; it forms a square aspect to your Virgo Sun (three-degree orb) and a trine to your natal Mercury (almost zergo-degree orb). Therefore, your sense of self (Sun) and mental processes (Mercury) are certainly influenced by Mars. This may explain your identification with Aries.

I am biased, of course, but it's also a very cool sign!

Arian Maverick

[Coyote]

Originally Posted by Arian Maverick

Yes, I must agree this sounds like a Piscean birth. To provide a means of comparison, my Aries birth was precipitated by an overdose of pitocin, which launched me into the world. This is quite different than a three-day protracted labor...

As Katydid indicated, your Ascendant ruler is located in the first house in Aries, which certainly gives an Aries flavor. Curiously enough, Aries is intercepted in your first house using the Placidus house system; a planet located in an intercepted sign often does not have the ease of a planet in a non-intercepted sign. Nevertheless, some astrologers use the ruler of an intercepted sign in the first house as a kind of co-ruler for the significator in a horary chart, although I'm not certain if one would apply this rule to a natal chart.

As far as your uncertainty regarding your time of birth, it's been my experience that the recorded birth time is often slightly later than the actual birth time, unless the clock in the delivery room is fast. Therefore, it seems likely that you have a Pisces Ascendant, unless there was some confusion with Daylight Savings Time.

It may be worth noting that Mars, the ruler of Aries, forms some significant aspects to personal planets in your natal chart; it forms a square aspect to your Virgo Sun (three-degree orb) and a trine to your natal Mercury (almost zergo-degree orb). Therefore, your sense of self (Sun) and mental processes (Mercury) are certainly influenced by Mars. This may explain your identification with Aries.

I am biased, of course, but it's also a very cool sign!

Arian Maverick

Ah, I can see what you are saying about the Sun/Mercury/Mars relationship. Mercury trine Mars... would that be an indicator that I tend to communicate in Arien fashion? I think I'm starting to understand the logic involved here.

When you say "intercepted sign" are you referring to the fact that in the Placidus system, Aries is entirely contained in the first house, touching neither cusp?