Working through a natal venus pluto conjunction

[sherrytatiana]

I am fascinated by the effects pluto can have on an individual. There has been a lot of discussion on how harsh pluto aspects might manifest, but comparatively less discussion on how the issues they reflect can be resolved, leading to a life that reflects the most evolved expression of the energy of venus or any other planet that finds itself in aspect with pluto.

I happen to have a lot of pluto in my chart. Pluto in libra is conjunct mars and venus in the 12th house, close to the ascendant and in aspect to lots of my planets. This manifests as strong, often overpowering relationships which are more like obsessions. The relationships are dominating but do not ever fully manifest themselves (owing to the idealistic quality of libra?). Either they are never consummated, are affairs, or are just intense attractions (either my attraction to another or vice versa) which never become relationships. It's all getting a little annoying for me, and I am wondering how such an intense pluto presence can be worked through so that it can have a more comfortable or at least a more fulfilling expression. Any ideas?


http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?;...rN-u1248634055

[sherrytatiana]

...or maybe I'm doomed. I should add that there doesn't seem to be much of a pattern in how these relationships occur. It's pretty much one of each of the types I've described. On that note, do I have to experience a bunch of these types of power imbalances within relationships before integrating my imagined ideal into myself and then eventually having a 'normal' relationship? I dunno... Any ideas?

[R4VEN]

sherrytatiana, perhaps you should read this first. I think it's pretty important in the grand scheme of your chart.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astro...unct-venus.php

Whilst not necessarily a doomed placement, Pluto-Venus conjunction can be difficult to grasp when in the 12th house. In this house it is quite illusionary, where you see the ideal partner in another, only to have it evaporate when you try to get hold of it. It is very intense, and can even overshadow almost all that the rest of your chart offers.
[I know a man in his 50's with Pluto-Venus conj - don't know what house - and due to his personality being under-developed and immature, he can only get close to quite young women, who all reject him, considering him `creepy'. The only young woman who has not (yet!!!) rejected him is his 22-yr-old daughter. He attaches himself to her, and gets overly involved with her life, and has in the past even moved (uninvited) into her house on the pretext of `protecting' her. So far she is reading this as father-love (and this seems to be her own personal illusion). Seeing them together is a strange experience, because it's obvious to observers that he views her as his girlfriend............. this is his own personal illusion in which his daughter is colluding.]

Adding to that Pluto-Venus conjunction is Chiron in the 7th house in Taurus, which may turn out to be the focal point of all the activity in your chart. Chiron in 7th is not all that easy, as relationships with partners tends to be wounding, and you can tend to attract wounded people as partners. You use the terms, `obsessive' and `overpowering' in describing your usual relationships. This is indeed the Pluto-factor, but it can also be the Chiron-factor. A 12th house Pluto-Venus would also lean towards affairs and secret liasons, where the actual relationship is more in the head or the imagination than in your real life. You could tend to building someone up in your imagination, and then when you get to the relationship-side of things, there is nothing there, or they do not return your feelings, or they are nothing like you imagined.

Your Pluto square, when it arrives in a couple of years, should provide some opportunities for adjustment to these habitual behaviours.

[sherrytatiana]

Originally Posted by R4VEN

sherrytatiana, perhaps you should read this first. I think it's pretty important in the grand scheme of your chart.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astro...unct-venus.php

Whilst not necessarily a doomed placement, Pluto-Venus conjunction can be difficult to grasp when in the 12th house. In this house it is quite illusionary, where you see the ideal partner in another, only to have it evaporate when you try to get hold of it. It is very intense, and can even overshadow almost all that the rest of your chart offers.
[I know a man in his 50's with Pluto-Venus conj - don't know what house - and due to his personality being under-developed and immature, he can only get close to quite young women, who all reject him, considering him `creepy'. The only young woman who has not (yet!!!) rejected him is his 22-yr-old daughter. He attaches himself to her, and gets overly involved with her life, and has in the past even moved (uninvited) into her house on the pretext of `protecting' her. So far she is reading this as father-love (and this seems to be her own personal illusion). Seeing them together is a strange experience, because it's obvious to observers that he views her as his girlfriend............. this is his own personal illusion in which his daughter is colluding.]

Adding to that Pluto-Venus conjunction is Chiron in the 7th house in Taurus, which may turn out to be the focal point of all the activity in your chart. Chiron in 7th is not all that easy, as relationships with partners tends to be wounding, and you can tend to attract wounded people as partners. You use the terms, `obsessive' and `overpowering' in describing your usual relationships. This is indeed the Pluto-factor, but it can also be the Chiron-factor. A 12th house Pluto-Venus would also lean towards affairs and secret liasons, where the actual relationship is more in the head or the imagination than in your real life. You could tend to building someone up in your imagination, and then when you get to the relationship-side of things, there is nothing there, or they do not return your feelings, or they are nothing like you imagined.

Your Pluto square, when it arrives in a couple of years, should provide some opportunities for adjustment to these habitual behaviours.

Very interesting. Thanks. I should add that I have been effectively single for about 9 years. The self sufficiency mentioned in the link has been a great focus for that period of time, as I have been living all over the world, independently, and just returned 'home' a couple years ago. I would tend to believe that the action with chiron, neptune and jupiter trining my natal pluto stellium and pluto sextiling it now-ish could help out... Or is that just wishful thinking? I'm rather new at considering the effects of Chiron... as well as the remedying of any seemingly hopeless situation like the one reflected in my chart, while working with the determinism of an astrological perspective. I remain confidant, however, that it can and will be resolved.

Also, what would be the effect of an individual with natal venus conjunct my natal Chiron? Any further info about Chiron, links, etc, would be greatly appreciated!

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by sherrytatiana

I have been living all over the world, independently, and just returned 'home' a couple years ago.

Interesting what you say here. Also, you write `home', like home is wherever you are - which I suspect is true for you. Your Jupiter-Moon conj MC so closely would have you up and going away pretty regularly.
I suspect that the triple conjunction - Chiron/Jupiter/Neptune - in your 4th house of home/heredity/roots has drawn you `home' for the purpose of looking at who you are, where you come from, and if your original `home' has any relevance to your life now. You will be seeing this area of your life quite differently no doubt.

Originally Posted by sherrytatiana

I would tend to believe that the action with chiron, neptune and jupiter trining my natal pluto stellium and pluto sextiling it now-ish could help out... Or is that just wishful thinking? I'm rather new at considering the effects of Chiron... as well as the remedying of any seemingly hopeless situation like the one reflected in my chart, while working with the determinism of an astrological perspective. I remain confidant, however, that it can and will be resolved.

Also, what would be the effect of an individual with natal venus conjunct my natal Chiron? Any further info about Chiron, links, etc, would be greatly appreciated!

sherryt, I don't see your chart as hopeless at all. Perhaps you have a lifetime in which you have to face some of your illusions about the love/romance thing (all hugely over-rated IMHO !!!), and this journey is likely to be quite a long one for you, because your illusions may tend to over-power the reality of your life. Depending on how habitual/addictive a behaviour it is for you to live in your imagination and actually conduct your relationship in there will determine how easily you can modify this tendency.

And a person with natal Venus conj your natal Chiron would be quite an intense love match, but with healing opportunities - perhaps for you both.

[katydid]

And a person with natal Venus conj your natal Chiron would be quite an intense love match, but with healing opportunities - perhaps for you both.
__________ by Raven

I agree completely with what Raven said here. Having some one's Venus on your Chiron could be very soothing to your soul. Chiron holds sway over some deep wounds from the past. When someone has a conjunction there with you, it can be very intense. If someone has their mars or pluto on your Chiron, you will be feeling it, and it may hurt some, but you will be actively dealing with those painful areas. But VENUS there, now that is soothing, and comforting, and you may learn to love and accept things that you used to dislike about yourself.

[astrologer50]

Also, what would be the effect of an individual with natal venus conjunct my natal Chiron? Any further info about Chiron, links, etc, would be greatly appreciated!

Chiron thread
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9786
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17165
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11976

Further discussions on AW and links from this thread….
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17165
http://www.moonsweb.com/ast/chiron.shtml
http://www.aquarianage.org/west/planets/ch-nat01.html
http://www.astrotherapy.eu/Chiron.htm
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/chiron21.5.html
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/chiron.html


When a sun sign is conjunct a heavyweight planet from Saturn onwards, ie: Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, that sun person automatically becomes and honorary Saturian, Uranian, Neptunian and Plutonian cos the contact with very strong

Your sun is conj Saturn which could also have been felt as a restrictive father influence from childhood, in the 11th house of hopes wishes and friendships. I suspect your friends are prob an older generation and you feel a strong duty and responsibility towards them to.

Now ruler of 7th mars is in 12th which doesn't bode well and mars is in detriment to. Notice your N Node is 27' conj 12th house cusp (Equal house) which suggests your karma/Lessons involved blending, sacrificing and in isolation, behind the scenes.

A tendency to worry unremittingly, to be plagued by vague feelings of guilt about under-performing, to lack faith and trust in a larger more spiritual plan, and to over-analyze ourselves and others are some of the issues this position suggests. we need to put some faith in spiritual powers to let go of our fears that we are not doing enough, to love ourselves and others with more compassion and understanding, to be humble, feeling safe in the knowledge that we (and others) are not perfect. We need to trust and develop our imagination, as well as capacity for compassion
http://www.cafeastrology.com/article...einpisces.html

http://www.cafeastrology.com/article...deinvirgo.html

Also having mars in 12th suggests your parents may not have let you express your ego needs or poss if you had temper tantrums, simply sent you to your room. Therefore you learnt not to express these cos it never achieved or get you what you wanted.

http://www.astrology.com/aboutastrol...s/house12.html

You do also have the 'divorce aspect' moon square uranus, which also suggests sudden breaks in relationship and with mum.
Sun square Neptune will also give you the pisces,neptune dreamy slant and prob no clear self image as teenager. I've often seen uranus in first house as a rebellious streak and wanting to 'appear different' with bright coloured hair and facial piercings. Your IC in Aquarius suggests your parents didn't have a 'binding affect' upon you and prob had unusual childhood.There's a thread here might interest you...
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=16855

Are you attracted to fire (aries) or earth (taurus) types?

[wintersprite1]

The thread did pick up on Venus and relationships and ran with that.

Venus has other roles in our lives, those things we find value in... our joys, our unconditional bottomless wealth of love, music and things tactile.
Pluto work with transformation and will intensify all Venusian pursuits.

Having the combo in the 12th (sub con) and near the Asc (our vehicle body) give some clues on where the combo will like to manifest. I would imagine that there is some issue with sensation and perception and how the senses intake information. You may find some colors more soothing and textures intolerable in some cases. You may seek out particular aromas... stuff that has to do with the 5 senses. Music will have a transformative effect. If the rest of the chart is inclined, you would make a great music or art therapist, as you are in tune to the subtleties. Working with cosmetics and transformations in that field would be appealing and I am sure that you could give any used furniture a make over that would raise the value.

When Pluto is involved with any planet in a conjunction, think of it as a magnifying glass, intensifying the other planet.

TK

[sherrytatiana]

Originally Posted by astrologer50

Chiron thread
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9786
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=286
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17165
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11976

Further discussions on AW and links from this thread….
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17165
http://www.moonsweb.com/ast/chiron.shtml
http://www.aquarianage.org/west/planets/ch-nat01.html
http://www.astrotherapy.eu/Chiron.htm
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/chiron21.5.html
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/chiron.html


When a sun sign is conjunct a heavyweight planet from Saturn onwards, ie: Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, that sun person automatically becomes and honorary Saturian, Uranian, Neptunian and Plutonian cos the contact with very strong

Your sun is conj Saturn which could also have been felt as a restrictive father influence from childhood, in the 11th house of hopes wishes and friendships. I suspect your friends are prob an older generation and you feel a strong duty and responsibility towards them to.

Now ruler of 7th mars is in 12th which doesn't bode well and mars is in detriment to. Notice your N Node is 27' conj 12th house cusp (Equal house) which suggests your karma/Lessons involved blending, sacrificing and in isolation, behind the scenes.

A tendency to worry unremittingly, to be plagued by vague feelings of guilt about under-performing, to lack faith and trust in a larger more spiritual plan, and to over-analyze ourselves and others are some of the issues this position suggests. we need to put some faith in spiritual powers to let go of our fears that we are not doing enough, to love ourselves and others with more compassion and understanding, to be humble, feeling safe in the knowledge that we (and others) are not perfect. We need to trust and develop our imagination, as well as capacity for compassion
http://www.cafeastrology.com/article...einpisces.html

http://www.cafeastrology.com/article...deinvirgo.html

Also having mars in 12th suggests your parents may not have let you express your ego needs or poss if you had temper tantrums, simply sent you to your room. Therefore you learnt not to express these cos it never achieved or get you what you wanted.

http://www.astrology.com/aboutastrol...s/house12.html

You do also have the 'divorce aspect' moon square uranus, which also suggests sudden breaks in relationship and with mum.
Sun square Neptune will also give you the pisces,neptune dreamy slant and prob no clear self image as teenager. I've often seen uranus in first house as a rebellious streak and wanting to 'appear different' with bright coloured hair and facial piercings. Your IC in Aquarius suggests your parents didn't have a 'binding affect' upon you and prob had unusual childhood.There's a thread here might interest you...
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=16855

Are you attracted to fire (aries) or earth (taurus) types?

Hmm.. Lots of interesting things here. It's hard for me to take the uranus-moon square too seriously, since it's a 10 degree orb and also hasn't characterized my life so far.

EDIT**I completely misread this part of my chart when I looked at it the first time. It is actually quite a strong aspect. When I was born, my mother had hepatitis and my father had to take care of me for the first couple of months of my life. He didn't want to have kids, so I suspect that he wasn't exactly the most nurturing person to be taking care of me during my first experience of the world. My mother and I never really bonded, but I do really care about her and we are very close, none the less.**

Also, I do have a very good relationship with my parents. I came back to my hometown to live and despite the fact that they have encouraged me to move elsewhere to finish my PhD and have even suggested the possibility of moving away themselves, I remain very loyal to this city and my roots in general, and would like to stay here and devote my energy to improving the area. As far as appearance is concerned, I have done some modeling, and my most defining characteristic is my long, thick, curly hair. I don't look particularly unusual, but I am hard to miss. I am almost exclusively attracted to taurus men. I have some very close female friends who are aries.

My friends are old and young.. Mostly young. I tend to be the old wise friend to many.

As far as faith is concerned, I have a deeply felt trust in life, but don't like organized religion very much. I tend to think that it always does an incomplete job of describing that which is unseen and often reflects the agendas of those in power within the given organization rather than what is true or right in some timeless sense. My belief that there is a great deal going on under the surface of things and that there are elements of truth in every religion permeates my value system. Truth, trust, loyalty, justice, forgiveness.. all very important.

You are absolutely right about the temper tantrums. When I was a child I would get extremely upset, and would be sent to my room, where I would cry hysterically for literally hours. I have also spent long periods of time in silent meditation as an adult. I think these are probably related.

The lack of self image did continue into university, and I have found myself dominated by either systems of thought (religions) or disciplines (ballet for over 20 years), which have limited my self expression. I used to restrict m diet in many ways (vegetarian, vegan, etc), but now just crave healthy food and make no restrictions on what I eat. I am happy to say, though, that these factors in my youth have led to my being extremely disciplined now that I am an adult. I don't find it difficult to work on something for days at a time with nearly no rest, and my ballet training comes through and helps out when I am doing more expressive sorts of dance. I also don't worry nearly as much as I used to.

[sherrytatiana]

Interesting what you say about sensation. I am very aware of how things feel and taste... I like to wear things that feel good and love to cook decadent food. I am a dancer.. I mostly improvise these days rather than choreographing, though; I work best responding to the music immediately, without planning.

[sherrytatiana]

Originally Posted by wintersprite1

The thread did pick up on Venus and relationships and ran with that....When Pluto is involved with any planet in a conjunction, think of it as a magnifying glass, intensifying the other planet.

TK

This is very interesting. I would love to discuss the opportunities presented by pluto a little more. How could a positive intensification of venus and mars be expressed in this position? Although the 12th house is normally thought of in a negative light, the whole of astrology is a 12th house art, as are the religions of the world, the unconscious (which everyone has access to and lives through the motivation stemming therefrom), and the art of psychology. These are certainly not bad, and I would think that a forum full of astrologers could easily (even happily) consider how this placement could present significant opportunities for growth -- especially considering the softening, justice/truth seeking influence of libra (impacting a generation of pluto individuals). Any ideas?

[Lin]

There is a wonderful book by Donna Cunningham called, "Healing Pluto Problems."
Intense Pluto aspects and transits take on a life of their own, and you do need extra help.
Check it out.
LIN