Does he love me and what will happen?

[ALST123]

Hi,

Ok (she says covering her face with her hands!) I am asking the question/s above about a man who I work with, and who I can't get out of my head. I have tried numerous times to shelve this, but it has now become glaringly obvious to me that I have serious feelings for this man. I think it is becoming more serious than a simple flirtation for him, and maybe something that he feels he will have to consider properly. Things don't seem to be dying down between us, no matter how much we try to damp things down.

Here's the chart:-



So, looking at significator placements I can see that Jupiter (him) has Saturn rx on his mind at the mo, but what is Saturn rx? It rules H5 & 6, so love affairs, dates, flirting etc & daily routine, work. Baring in mind he has a fiancee (yes, please don't judge me, like I said I have tried to make this go away many, many times) perhaps that indicates why he is particularly thinking about love affairs. Infact, perhaps Saturn rx IS the fiancee. Jupiter is not specifically linked to Mercury in any way in terms of influence, only to Saturn rx (rulership & triplicity) - so does he want an affair/bit of fun in general?

I am Mercury in my own dignity in Gemini and just coming up to the MC. Am I going to have some success at work? Or is this alluding to my wanting to make my feelings known to him (i.e. being more public about it)? I seem to be in quite a powerful position. I am in Jupiter's detriment, however. Surely that means I DON'T like him. I don't like what he's doing, i.e. marrying a woman (in July) who he moans about, who makes him bored, irritates him etc, etc. (Perhaps this is for financial reasons or just a simple life?).

I am in the triplicity of Saturn rx and in face of Jupiter, but in term of myself. Perhaps I am also wanting a love affair (Saturn) with him (Jupiter), but it is becoming more than that.

I am going to post this now, and then deal with aspects. (Don't want to lose where I've got up to!)...

Smiles,
Ax.

[ALST123]

FYI, I thought of the Vedic Number 62 when this question came up.

So, part 2:- ASPECTS...

The moon (sat in H1 interestingly = female helper + changes coming up quickly?) will oppose both Venus and Mars before the matter ends. I am wondering if Venus also signifies me (in Mars' dignity therefore in love with him). Our story has certainly been following the Venus/Mars action in the skies lately... Does Moon in h1 also signify changes in favour of the querent? I know an oppostion is not good, though.

I am really interested in the Moon's action with Mercury and Jupiter. It looks like the Moon will trine Jupiter and Mercury at the same time. Admittedly in about 23/24 somethings. Checking the ephemeris reveals that:-

a) Mercury rx (starting tomorrow) means that Mercury will backtrack through Taurus and will conjunct Sun on 18/19 May. I will be ruled by Venus from 15/5 - 15/6!!! Although I suppose that means that I will be Kazimi on those days (i.e. really powerful???).

b) Venus will catch Mars up in Taurus and conj on 21/6!!! At that point Mercury will also be dignified again in Gemini. And Merc will no longer be under sunbeams!

c) On 1/7, Moon will be at 27 Libra, Mercury at 24 Gemini, and Jupiter at 26 Aquarius THEREFORE TRINING BUT Jupiter will just have gone retrograde! What does that mean? Will he retreat as that is the month he's getting married? AND Mercury will still be under the Sunbeams (Sun at 9 Cancer) . (Jeez, some exciting stuff coming up! ). Until Nov, Jupiter will backtrack through h5, only going into h6 again at about Xmas time.

Considering Jupiter also signifies the end of the matter, I guess Jul 1 will be a pretty momentous day, whether for good or bad. Is there a significator for the marriage, though?

One final point... what does Uranus sitting in his h1 mean?

For anyone who has kept up, thank you and please comment.

Thanks,
Ax.

[starlink]

OK ALST, lets look at this realistically. A Saturn in the 1st house always spells trouble of some kind, it is a bit of a red flag unless Saturn rules the quisited. This is not the case here. The quisited is Jupiter in Saturns sign Aquarius. That is different. It has more to do with you, being in a romantic mood (Saturn ruler 5) about all that rules Jupiter. (his looks, his body, his manners). You have been clearly sexually interested, as the ruler of romance is past the trine to the Sun, his male animal side.

You are Mercury, indeed strong in Gemini and in face as well as detriment of Jupiter. These two dignities/debilities are both very weak. Now what does that mean? You seem to not really like him, certainly not love him, even though you might think that now. It is probably more a sexual attraction than a sincere feeling of love.

He is Jupiter and in his own term. He thinks about himself and if you want to look at that Saturn ruling him, then that Saturn is also in term of Jupiter and retrograde, pulling back. He is indeed in your house of work and he is VOC, he wont take action or cannot take action (probably because he is already engaged to be married).

This is a complex situation which we can look at from difficult angles. Mercury can show his future wife whom he apparently does not really love (or she him as Mercury moves towards a square with Jupiter). This leaves the Moon as being you. Moon in partnership sign Libra where Moon is in fall but in own face, not strong at all. Moon moves towards Jupiter but the orb is too wide and besides Moon will oppose Venus and Mars first before even reaching the trine to Jupiter.

If we dont look at Mercury being his wife, Merc represents you and Mercury is also moving towards that square with Jupiter before leaving Gemini. It really does not look like he loves you and I truly think that the attraction is purely sexual from his side (as well as from yours).

There is no mutual reception between Mercury and Jupiter, nor Moon and Jupiter but there is a translation of light from Moon, leaving trine to Mercury and eventually trining Jupiter. Now this can show that you will get in contact with him, but it does not answer the question whether he loves you. I think he does not and as you also are insinuating, he is probably only wanting an affair.

One positive thing: Moons last aspect is a trine to Jupiter and I cannot place this to be honest. Both end of the matter planets, his and yours (Merc. and Jupiter) will square one another. I would say that it might look as if things look good between the two of you but eventually no happy endings. There is no real love, probably just desire. Sorry Alst. Maybe AG has better things to say? She usually sees what I dont

Cheers, Starlink

Looking at house 4 on how this matter will end, again we see Jupiter VOC. This to me shows that there will no progress in this situation, no matter how it seems to look right now. Jupiter cannot do anything.

[ALST123]

Originally Posted by starlink

OK ALST, lets look at this realistically. A Saturn in the 1st house always spells trouble of some kind, it is a bit of a red flag unless Saturn rules the quisited. This is not the case here. The quisited is Jupiter in Saturns sign Aquarius. That is different. It has more to do with you, being in a romantic mood (Saturn ruler 5) about all that rules Jupiter. (his looks, his body, his manners). .

Ok then. Do you think Saturn in H1 literally means "you're just fantasising, love(!)". Perhaps the chart is telling me to get over myself!

In all seriousness, this is wierd! I definitely have strong feelings for this guy, but it's not showing, unless I'm also Venus. I don't understand.

Perhaps he's just enjoying the attention or something. I just think something surprisingly good will come out of this. But what? Perhaps that's the Moon trining Jupiter at the end.

This is a complex situation which we can look at from difficult angles. Mercury can show his future wife whom he apparently does not really love (or she him as Mercury moves towards a square with Jupiter). This leaves the Moon as being you. Moon in partnership sign Libra where Moon is in fall but in own face, not strong at all. Moon moves towards Jupiter but the orb is too wide and besides Moon will oppose Venus and Mars first before even reaching the trine to Jupiter.

Hmm, that seems to reflect what I think about their relationship. I wonder why they're getting married then. Materialism? Convenience? Could they not be Mars and Venus? If so, she loves him, but he doesn't love her, and Moon will oppose them. Or perhaps he and I are Mars and Venus which do a little dance in Aries and Taurus over the next couple of months, but the opposition from the Moon is prohibitive.

there is a translation of light from Moon, leaving trine to Mercury and eventually trining Jupiter. Now this can show that you will get in contact with him, but it does not answer the question whether he loves you. I think he does not and as you also are insinuating, he is probably only wanting an affair.

I thought a translation of light would have more positive consequences. Such as a more concrete "getting together" or committment (of whatever type). Only Merc is dignified, though. Hmmm...

One positive thing: Moons last aspect is a trine to Jupiter and I cannot place this to be honest. Both end of the matter planets, his and yours (Merc. and Jupiter) will square one another. I would say that it might look as if things look good between the two of you but eventually no happy endings. There is no real love, probably just desire. Sorry Alst.

S'ok. I'm getting used to bad news on the relationship front. (Maybe it's because I have n. Saturn rx in h7 ). I would have thought moon trining Jupiter would be more positive, too. Unless, she's the Moon and he's Jupiter and it means them getting married. But, I would have thought considering the way the question is worded (when I drew up the chart I only asked "Does he love me?" - the "what will happen?" was added on when I typed up the thread), I would have thought that might allude to a concrete expression of romantic feelings, perhaps even love. (Grasping... straws!).

UNLESS (!!!!!), he tells me that he loves me (Moon trine Jupiter), but he only really wants an affair (Jupiter ruled by h5 ruler and conjunct h5). OOOO! That would be REALLY bad, and may explain Merc's position in Gemini i.e. disliking Jupiter. AND maybe that is why Saturn rx is the warning flag in h1. .

Now I'm getting angry .

Comments anyone?

Thanks,
Ax.

[hiimnotcool]

I'd say No as well. I'm pretty simple with my interpretations though. No aspect, no yes answer.

If the translation of light occured then it would have been a yes, but there is no translation. Moon will aspect Venus and Mars before it trines Jupiter therefore it is called 'Frustration'.

lol should have asked the question a couple hours later

[starlink]

I'm pretty simple with my interpretations though. No aspect, no yes answer.

The simplest interpretations are usually the best hiimnotcool. We always try to keep it a simple as possible in horary. It is easy to loose yourself in all sorts of interpretive acrobatics

Starlink

[barbh]

Hi ALST123

Well, Mercury, you, is stationary and just about to go retro. It will indeed retrograde and come back to square Mr. Jupiter, so you'll probably get together again, but its still a square. Problematic for sure. You're stationary, so you're in a paralyzed or confused state right now, not sure which way to move, or if you do move, will it be the right move. You have power here, being in Gemini on the MC, so you can make something happen if you wanted to (you already know this though ).

As you retrograde back into Taurus, you will no longer be in the detriment of Jupiter, and you'll also no longer be in your own rulership, so you're going to start liking him more, and he may have more power over you. Uh oh.

I think Saturn is the fiance, as he is disposited by her, and she's right there in your house, which is also the house of his 7th. He is in her rulership and triplicity, so she has a lot of power over him. She's not going anywhere!
Or, should we use Venus for her? Venus is very weak here, in her own detriment, and only in the terms of Jupiter. I think I'd make her Saturn instead of Venus. Whatever, the point is about you and him.

As Jupiter, he doesn't have much interest in you. If we use the Sun for him, the animal sexual side of him, then he is in the face of Mercury, and has just recently been in the terms of you as well, but that's ending now. If we use Venus as your animal sexual female side, then you actually exalt the Sun, and are in the terms of Jupiter. Yep, this is just lust on his part...and also on yours too, except that you have more regard for him than he has for you.

From past experience, since I was in the same situation as you, if he's with her and has made no move to call it off, then he won't. He'll say whatever he needs to say to keep you as his mistress. Its sad, i know, but let his actions speak for him.

That merc retro jupiter square could mean a breaking apart as well. A coming together, finally realizing it just isn't worth it, and then breaking apart. Squares usually imply too much work to make it work.

so, good luck on this one
keep us posted as merc retrogrades
barbh

[starlink]

Barb, great you got in on this one. Mercury stationary, boy, I missed that one!! (banging myself on the head) Shows me once again that 4 eyes see more than 2!
I also would take Saturn as the fiancé. Usually Saturn is taken as the woman who is cheated upon. But what does the retrograde mean I wonder. Maybe she realizes that he does not love her either and will pull out? or some other reason?
I am curious to know the end of this situation, so ALST, please keep us posted.

Cheers, Starlink

[ALST123]

Originally Posted by starlink

Barb, great you got in on this one. Mercury stationary, boy, I missed that one!! (banging myself on the head) Shows me once again that 4 eyes see more than 2!
I also would take Saturn as the fiancé. Usually Saturn is taken as the woman who is cheated upon. But what does the retrograde mean I wonder. Maybe she realizes that he does not love her either and will pull out? or some other reason?
I am curious to know the end of this situation, so ALST, please keep us posted.

Cheers, Starlink

Oh, Lord in Heaven! (Head in hands.). This is depressing! My horaries never seem positive! Trouble is Saturn rx also represents the love affair (if it ever really becomes that - perhaps that's what the rx refers to). Perhaps if she is Saturn rx she is becoming a little erm ... irritating and restricting for him. Dunno, just a guess. I can't see her pulling out. From what he says she is gung-ho about the wedding. She even buys soup called "Italian Wedding Soup" because their wedding will be in Italy! Lawd above!

I have a funny feeling that the last time this relationship surfaced, it was the last Mercury rx period. I will check my other posts. I remember something about Mercury going backwards and conjuncting with Mars, but not catching Mars up again.

I hesitate to say this, but I almost don't see an end to this situation. My gut tells me that if I don't do anything about this, it will just roll on down the track with this cyber relationship sometimes popping up and sometimes being dormant. They will get married and live their cosy, simple life, no-one gets challenged, and he and I will always feel like this about each other. Whereas, if I do something about it, help him understand how things could be and show him what his choices really are, it will unlock something positive causing him to change direction and be with me. It feels like he is hesitating about his future. I know this has started off as lust, but I think it could be much more than that. Maybe I'm very deluded, though.

Thanks for getting in on this, Barbh.

Cheers,
Ax.

[Serendipity]

Non astrological and I'll probably be scolded by a mod for this but......

ALST you're heading down a bad path here. Why are you letting this guy play head games with you and string you along? Also, I'm not being judgemental but...... let's also think about this: whether or not he is "happy" in the relationship is neither here nor there. The fact is, he's in a relationship, period. Consider his fiance's point of view and how you would feel if you were her. And what I mean by that is the karmic implications of what you're thinking and doing. karma=natural law of the universe

[ALST123]

Originally Posted by Serendipity

Non astrological and I'll probably be scolded by a mod for this but......

ALST you're heading down a bad path here. Why are you letting this guy play head games with you and string you along? Also, I'm not being judgemental but...... let's also think about this: whether or not he is "happy" in the relationship is neither here nor there. The fact is, he's in a relationship, period. Consider his fiance's point of view and how you would feel if you were her. And what I mean by that is the karmic implications of what you're thinking and doing. karma=natural law of the universe

Hmmm, an interesting point and I was waiting for someone to say that, thanks S.

The thing is, I've been through a horrible marriage which should never have begun (although certainly didn't know that at the time). I can see that this relationship is wrong for the guy and the fiancee (and so can he!). Is it right therefore to let them make a very costly mistake? Even without my getting involved in a romantic way, I would want to point this out to him. What about laws of karma now? Would you let a friend make that kind of mistake? I certainly wish someone had tried to tell me... (And no, I'm not projecting my past experiences onto this and getting the wrong end of the stick.).

Hope that didn't sound . It was meant to be a bit more .

I am open to advice and comments, especially astro ones.

Thanks,
Ax.

[barbh]

Well, just remember that you're not responsible for him or his feelings. He's a big boy and can take care of himself. Who knows what kind of karmic agreements he has made with his bride to be? Maybe they agreed to be together in this lifetime to work out whatever they need to work out. Only he and she know what is best for them, even if outsiders don't get it.
The only important thing here for you is your own feelings. I'm the last person to judge your actions here, but its true...you do deserve better. You deserve someone who is actually available to be with you. Even if you were to be with him, how could you ever trust him? You know now for sure that he does indeed lie...and would cheat in an instant. Consider the bride to be a universal godsend in a way.,..keeping you away from a man who would most likely cheat on you and only cause you pain.
Ok, that sounds a bit harsh.......but I suppose its good to be reminded that you deserve someone who will adore you and only you, and be loyal and trustworthy. I've had to keep reminding myself of that one too. I know how hard it can be though once your heart gets attached.
It's apparent to everyone on this forum (well, especially to me :-) what a kind heart and giving nature you have. Of course you can only see the best in him. Which is also why it may be good to get perspective from others who understand.

good luck!

barbh

[starlink]

Hi girls!! Should I go : "scold, scold, scold" I dont feel like it, so I wont, but I will remind all participants to please stick to the horary definitions please.
All the advice, also i.my point of view is very much to the point. Turn a leaf ALST! He probably has to make a mistake for karma's sake

Starlink

[barbh]

Star is right. I hate receiving non astrological advice myself, so I won't give it.....(except for my previous post )

Astrologically speaking, I had mentioned that Merc was going retro and would be squaring Jupiter. I see now that the Sun will square Jupiter first, which is classic frustration. However, it may be seen as translation as well, as the Sun will first square Jupiter, and then go to conjunct Mercury, thereby bringing them together. The Sun is in the 3rd, so that could be his email or some sort of communication from him. Its still a square though, so it may not bring much about. Actually, is it really translation? Translation is supposed to be a faster planet separating from one sig and applying to the other. The Sun here has not as yet squared Jup. Hmmmm. Don't know if we can use it then. It could just be frustration...? The next aspects of the moon are oppositions to the angst ridden 8th house. I don't think that bodes well either.

again, please keep us posted
barbh

[Serendipity]

starlink

astrologically speaking I don't see much in the way of this chart that's in your favor.....what I do see that's good is your significator is in it's own rulership and although it's stationary and ready to retrograde I see this as your chance to go back and clear up the situation once and for all. You cannot control this situation nor persuade the person involved. You can only control your own behavior. You are in your own dignity and have some power here. What would be nice is to say 'hey I really like you a lot but you are engaged and don't seem to know what you really want, I think it would be better if we stopped talking but I wish you all the best with whatever you do'.

ALST I have your interest at heart and I hope you are able to resolve this soon and have peace of mind. I am sorry for the non astro advice everyone.

[ALST123]

Hi,

Thanks for all the feedback and soz Star.

I see now that the Sun will square Jupiter first, which is classic frustration.

Frustration in what sense though? Is it sexual as it's iro Sun? Or is it just literally frustration in not being able to act on his feelings?

The next aspects of the moon are oppositions to the angst ridden 8th house.

I thought h8 could also be passtimes of the bedroom variety . With Moon opposing, however, that ain't gonna be happening.

He probably has to make a mistake for karma's sake

Could be right, Star, but a mistake with whom? That's the big question for me.

Ok, that sounds a bit harsh.......but I suppose its good to be reminded that you deserve someone who will adore you and only you, and be loyal and trustworthy.

Not sure that exists, Barbh. At least, not for me. (N. moon in h12 & Saturn rx in h7).

It's apparent to everyone on this forum (well, especially to me :-) what a kind heart and giving nature you have. Of course you can only see the best in him. Which is also why it may be good to get perspective from others who understand.

Thank you, that's really kind. I am a bit of a sucker, actually. I've tried getting advice from others, but they all seem to have their own agenda and projections, and it made it v. confusing for me, that's why I did the horary.

I guess I just like to make everyone happy.

Cheers,
Ax.

[barbh]

Frustration in what sense though? Is it sexual as it's iro Sun? Or is it just literally frustration in not being able to act on his feelings?

I meant aspect frustration. Merc cannot get to Jup because the Sun gets there first. Mercury is frustrated. The aspect is denied. No getting together (unless the Sun is a translator...but don't know if we can use that, as I described below). however, as the Sun does rule his 3rd, it could be a communication....maybe.

I thought h8 could also be passtimes of the bedroom variety . With Moon opposing, however, that ain't gonna be happening.

Nope. Sex is strictly 5th house material...at least according to most experts in horary. 8th house has to do with loss...and of course other people's money , but in this case, it seems classic angst.

good luck!
barbh

[starlink]

Could be right, Star, but a mistake with whom? That's the big question for me.

It does not matter with whom ALST. It is making a mistake in the relationship sector and learning (life lesson) from it after hitting your head once or twice.

[misskitty]

I recommend the book 'will he really leave her for me' by rona subotnik. Sorry for the non-horary post but there doesn't seem to be anything else to add here anyway.

[ALST123]

I'm confused now anyway. He seems to have gone a bit cold. Perhaps that's something to do with the Jupiter Chiron Neptune conjunction, or maybe the Jupiter Uranus semi-sextile.

He doesn't seem to want to have much to do with me at the moment. I've not done anything wrong... or infact different the past couple of days. Wierd!

Thanks
Ax.

[katydid]

Originally Posted by ALST123

I'm confused now anyway. He seems to have gone a bit cold. Perhaps that's something to do with the Jupiter Chiron Neptune conjunction, or maybe the Jupiter Uranus semi-sextile.

He doesn't seem to want to have much to do with me at the moment. I've not done anything wrong... or infact different the past couple of days. Wierd!

Thanks
Ax.

Maybe it is the Mercury going retrograde. During this time people get the chance to re-think decisions, and to redo things a different way. Maybe he is
pulling back because he is engaged and about to marry someone else.

[misskitty]

It really isn't wierd though if he is just wanting a fling. It is just how men treat flings, so it is completely expected. I hate to say that, but I was in a situation almost exactly like yours and it took a pretty hard fall to come to that realization. I sympathize, but the sooner you walk away the better it will be for you and the less damage you will do to yourself in the long run.

[barbh]

Well, Mars has just very recently (days) left the terms of Venus. Mars in Aries is in the detriment of Venus, so Mars doesn't like Venus much right now, but at least he was in her terms there for a little bit. That's pretty much over right now. Mars is not happy with Venus! It makes sense with what ALST has just described. The same thing has happened with me. Dude is just freezing me out, after I thought we had come to some sort of an understanding. I think that until Mars goes into Taurus, things will be difficult. Once Mars goes into the rulership of Venus, things might look a tad different, and then of course as Venus moves into Taurus, things should be much brighter indeed!!! That's where you have more power, or are at least more able to use it!

barbh

[ALST123]

Originally Posted by barbh

Well, Mars has just very recently (days) left the terms of Venus. Mars in Aries is in the detriment of Venus, so Mars doesn't like Venus much right now, but at least he was in her terms there for a little bit. That's pretty much over right now. Mars is not happy with Venus! It makes sense with what ALST has just described. The same thing has happened with me. Dude is just freezing me out, after I thought we had come to some sort of an understanding. I think that until Mars goes into Taurus, things will be difficult. Once Mars goes into the rulership of Venus, things might look a tad different, and then of course as Venus moves into Taurus, things should be much brighter indeed!!! That's where you have more power, or are at least more able to use it!

barbh

My thoughts exactly, Barbh - you read my mind! I am really hanging on for that Venus dignity! Lol! At the moment all this plus the Jupiter/Neptune/Chiron/Lilith thing is making life suck!

Do you think the Mars in Aries thing is making men irritable, too? Or is it just that they are feeling more assertive? I get a real feeling of having to pull back and keep a lid on it all the time.

Thanks,
Ax.

[starlink]

The chart is set for this question and I dont think you should put your hopes up too high by looking what Mars is planning to do in the future and how strong you will become. Maybe you will be stronger and indeed strong enough to pull back like you really feel like doing, not becoming stronger in a "maybe he will now come to me" sort of strength.
Yes, Mars will enter Taurus, but after 4 weeks gone again into the next sign and that is that!

Do you think the Mars in Aries thing is making men irritable, too?

I dont think you can generalize this position. It all depends on what sort of Mars position people (not only men) have in their chart and when they have a really strong Mars, then Mars in Aries could add a bit of weight to it maybe, But instead of irritability which I rather connect with Mercury-Uranus than with Mars, it could show getting more active, doing more.