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  #1  
Old 04-15-2009, 02:08 AM
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mayin mayin is offline
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4th house stellium and other stories

hello all,
i'm trying to understand this stellium, any thoughts?

i have a 4th house stellium in libra with pluto, saturn and mars on my IC. this squares my venus in Cap 7th, and also my Asc of course (conjunct north node). since this is quite the focal point of my chart, i feel i really need to understand the underlying pattern. i can identify with early home-life disturbances, trouble finding the ground beneath my feet so to speak, restlessnes. perhaps lack of stability in more than one sense. my private space - 'home' - is crucially important to me. yet i always seem to looking for my place and move a lot. so far it makes sense.

this stellium acting as one unit makes it hard for me to be to perceive they energies of the planets separately, and being 3 such intense planets conjuncting my IC is pretty scary to be honest. i feel its important that i learn to unravel this and find a way to understand what its trying to do.
what more should i know about this entity? it squares my 7th house venus in cap which makes inter-personal relationships challenging. how do i qualify that tho? i can't experientially separate these the planets and thats so frustrating. do you have anything like this? how does it affect you?
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Last edited by mayin; 04-17-2009 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 04-17-2009, 07:54 AM
kacena kacena is offline
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Re: 4th house stellium and other stories

hello mayin,
one of my best friends has a stellium in the 4th house in libra consisting of mars, mercury, pluto and venus. his father was murdered when he was 9 years old. he is very secretive about his home and his job involves frequent moving. I have read once that with pluto in the 4th you should leave your birthplace and move as far as you can.
In order to "feed" the plantes you might want to have a small gym in your home (mars) and a workroom (saturn).
I always consider a stellium as the biggest force, there is nothing so powerful as a stellium for me and you just have to find the way to make it work for you. Good luck!
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Old 04-19-2009, 04:10 PM
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Re: 4th house stellium and other stories

Quote:
Originally Posted by kacena
hello mayin,
one of my best friends has a stellium in the 4th house in libra consisting of mars, mercury, pluto and venus. his father was murdered when he was 9 years old. he is very secretive about his home and his job involves frequent moving. I have read once that with pluto in the 4th you should leave your birthplace and move as far as you can.
In order to "feed" the plantes you might want to have a small gym in your home (mars) and a workroom (saturn).
I always consider a stellium as the biggest force, there is nothing so powerful as a stellium for me and you just have to find the way to make it work for you. Good luck!
hello kacena
i always wanted to leave my birthplace and have indeed moved as far as i could! my motivation for moving has been to get miles away, but i also really like being a foreigner. i think there is more moving due in my near future, and its good in some ways, but i would like very much to connect to a place and feel like its my home. i've never really had that.

i'm reading some very interesting descrptions on this from sue tompkins' book on aspects (on pairs of planets, not the stellium). its all rather fitting, but i'm still looking to understand what this stellium is over and above the sum of the cunjunctions.
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Old 05-05-2009, 12:02 PM
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hermetic hermetic is offline
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Re: 4th house stellium and other stories

ok, I have a similar thing going on, look at the link in my sig

regarding living away from home, I got very different opinions so maybe this thread would be interesting read for you
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=13515

you have Moon in 9th house, so this is very indicative of you living away, and as you say 'looking for your place(Aries Moon)'

beside those bad planets you also have Jupiter in your 4th, but what I find strange is that all those are retrograde - meaning the resolving of these childhood home disturbances will happen internally, and quite possibly later in your life
and since Venus is involved which is in the 7th - maybe some partnership will force you into going back to your home place

I wouldn't see this 4th house planets as conjunct IC, only Mars perhaps. IC is a point so you can't really count wide orbs for it.
hope this helps some
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Old 05-05-2009, 03:18 PM
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amzolt amzolt is offline
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Re: 4th house stellium and other stories

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayin
i'm trying to understand this stellium, any thoughts?

i have a 4th house stellium in libra with pluto, saturn and mars on my IC. this squares my venus in Cap 7th, and also my Asc of course (conjunct north node). my private space - 'home' - is crucially important to me. yet i always seem to looking for my place and move a lot.
I notice that all the planets in the grouping are retrograde. This gives you a tremendous opportunity to draw on extremely individualized uses for those functions and gives you an ability to act against the grain of social inertia in terms of their actions in home and soul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayin
this stellium acting as one unit makes it hard for me to be to perceive they energies of the planets separately, and being 3 such intense planets conjuncting my IC is pretty scary to be honest.... i can't experientially separate these the planets and thats so frustrating.
As far as "separating" these functions, try this exercise from my book. There a set of words below for each planet, another set of phrases for the sign, and a set of phrases for the house. Take a word from the planet set and mate it to a phrase from the sign set. Then add the words "in order to" and mate a phrase from the house set to all that. Try all the combinations and I think you can get a better grip on how they all work together as a "triple planetary function".
Here are examples by choosing the first options in each set for Mars, the second for Saturn, and the third options for Pluto:

Mars:
Externalizing a Harmonizing Attitude in order to Anchor Myself.
Saturn:
Clarifying Awareness of Others in order to Nourish My Roots.
Pluto:
Purging Considerations of Sharing in order to Fertilize the Situation.

Mars:
Externalizing
Motivating with
Asserting
Being Driven by

Saturn:
Defining
Clarifying
Structuring
Organizing

Pluto:
Getting to the Depths of
Transcending
Purging
Regenerating

Libra:
a Harmonizing Attitude
Awareness of Others
Considerations of Sharing
Seeing Things from Other’s Perspectives

4th House:
Anchor Myself.
Nourish My Roots.
Fertilize the Situation.
Ground Myself.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mayin
it squares my 7th house venus in cap which makes inter-personal relationships challenging.
Squares are the workhorses of astrology. Yes, they're challenging but they also remind us that the things of most value are those we work hardest to accomplish.

Try the exercise on Venus in Cap in the 7th. Here's an example using the first option in each set:

Being Discriminating about an Objective Attitude in order to Begin (or, Refresh) a Relationship.

Venus:
Being Discriminating about
Attracting
Valuing
Evaluating

Capricorn:
an Objective Attitude
a Desire for Enduring Patterns
Constructive Initiatives
Structural Innovations

7th House:
Begin (or, Refresh) a Relationship.
Be Aware of the Other Person’s Perspective.
Initiate Sharing.
Find a Compensating Viewpoint.
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  #6  
Old 05-05-2009, 04:46 PM
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mayin mayin is offline
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Re: 4th house stellium and other stories

hey hermetic, the other thread was indeed very interesting, thanks for that! looks like we have similar issues regarding this... i've just posted on there too. you're spot on about the aries moon in the 9th.
Quote:
Venus is involved which is in the 7th - maybe some partnership will force you into going back to your home place
maybe! i wonder what else those venus aspects could suggest?
amzolt
, thats a pretty cool way of understanding the functions! i'm enjoying playing around with that, thanks

both of you refer to the planets being retrograde... but i can't really digest what that suggests...
amzolt:
Quote:
This gives you a tremendous opportunity to draw on extremely individualized uses for those functions and gives you an ability to act against the grain of social inertia in terms of their actions in home and soul.
and hermetic:
Quote:
what I find strange is that all those are retrograde - meaning the resolving of these childhood home disturbances will happen internally, and quite possibly later in your life
so the energy is internal, personalised and contrary to others' expectations? i'm going to have to scratch my head over this one for a while....
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Old 05-05-2009, 05:58 PM
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Re: 4th house stellium and other stories

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayin
{concerning retrograde planets}
so the energy is internal, personalised and contrary to others' expectations? i'm going to have to scratch my head over this one for a while....
You have it right, mayin. Retrograde planets are anything but negative. Like many things in astrology, the traditionalists and the media cast things in black/white, good/bad molds which leads to astrological understanding moulding when it could be growing...

More than just contrary to other's expectations, retrograde planets are, in fact, a potent force for change and moving society out of its slumbering inertia...
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Old 05-05-2009, 08:49 PM
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astrologer50 astrologer50 is offline
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Re: 4th house stellium and other stories

The only planet conj IC is Mars on fairly wide orb, albeit others just deposited in 4th. Mars conj Pluto could have been some physical violence in early childhood, plus saturn, a cool, aloof, distance or even absent father.

I tend to agree the fact that your Moon is in 9th house suggests living abroad or to marry a foreigner. Your chart lacks the element of earth which although you may not be too practical suggests the sign of a 'moneymaker'

My keywords for Saturn, duty. responsibility, hard work, wherever saturn is placed, is where we feel a lack of confidence and where we tend to put extra effort in by way of compensation, but conj mars suggests, doing ones duty in a cautious and constructive manner, but may also be felt as frustration of your physical energies

Pluto in 4th suggests someone was controlling, demanding, manipulative, subversive, secretive, very anlaytical, poss played mind games. Now all the overt things going on in your childhood suggests you withdraw, went inwards and probably didn't show any aggression at all for fear of physical punishment. Hence all the retrograde planets, they all go inwards for outward expression and the only ones worth considering are mars, jupiter and saturn.

Will send you PM as the forum rules stipulate that only 100words can be used from another author without stating the author, book or website and as I don’t recall exactly where or who and don’t want to commit plagiarism, don’t have any choice but to PM as I do want you to have the full information or quote……

Your Venus has 3 challenging aspects to mars, saturn, pluto
Venus square mars = highly sexual
Venus square Saturn = feeling unloved, uncherished from childhood
Venus square Pluto = emotionally controlling, demanding, obsessive

Obviously where you do want the control is your home roots with pluto and venus ruling the cusp.
Going back to basics, Cancer Asc is a born worrier and any partner must be involved in your family matters/home roots, ruler of 7th in 4th.
Pluto in 4th also rules 5th house of love affairs, romance, children etc and Uranus there suggests that your relationships prob start suddenly and end suddenly and you may have unusual kids or very independant inventive and you may have unsual hobbies, recreational activities also..

Saturn conj Pluto = ambition, hard work and discipline all connected to your home roots and family members and one to one relationships ie; 7th house


For further research try using AW 'search' feature and keywords or try here esp for Venus pluto square
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=10126


Hope this helps
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Old 05-05-2009, 10:02 PM
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mayin mayin is offline
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Re: 4th house stellium and other stories

thanks so very much for all that info astrologer50 thats a lot of stuff you sent by PM, i need mull over that and will get back to you!
can i please pick your brains about what you said here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrologer50
Mars conj Pluto could have been some physical violence in early childhood, plus saturn, a cool, aloof, distance or even absent father.
no physical violence, but absent father for sure!
Quote:
I tend to agree the fact that your Moon is in 9th house suggests living abroad or to marry a foreigner.
why do you say it suggests i'll marry a foreigner? isn't that signified by the ruler of the 7th (in the 4th in my case... so wouldn't that suggest i'd marry someone from my homeland? not that i really want to ) ?
Quote:
Your chart lacks the element of earth which although you may not be too practical suggests the sign of a 'moneymaker'
again, can i ask why you say that? Stephen Arroyo (Astrology, psychology, and the four elements, 1975) writes: "Those having too little emphasis on the earth element are not naturally attuned to... the limitations and requirements of survival in the material plane. They ... are not grounded in the here and now realization of their dependence on material things such as food, money, or shelter ...".
This was my understanding of having less earth in a chart, which is the opposite of what you are suggesting. I thought that those with a lot of earth would be likely to be the 'moneymakers'.... do explain!
Quote:
Now all the overt things going on in your childhood suggests you withdraw, went inwards and probably didn't show any aggression at all for fear of physical punishment.
Thats quite true... i did go 'inwards' but not to avoid physical punishment, there was just lots going on and i felt i had to keep my head down, stay out of trouble, and just get on with it.
Quote:
Your Venus has 3 challenging aspects to mars, saturn, pluto
Venus square mars = highly sexual
Venus square Saturn = feeling unloved, uncherished from childhood
Venus square Pluto = emotionally controlling, demanding, obsessive
i can identify with all of that from the past... but i think a lot is changing. i've been single for a long time now and altho its probably quite early to feel my saturn return (i'm 27), i feel like there's something fundamentally different in the way i think of (potential) partners... we shall see...

thanks people, i'm learning a lot with your help. glad to have found myself here surrounded by so much knowledge and support:44:
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Old 05-06-2009, 08:06 AM
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Re: 4th house stellium and other stories

Your moon in 9th has more importance I feel cos it's your chart ruler and one of the three most important in a chart ie; sun, moon and Asc. The possibility of marrying a foreigner, even on impulse (aries) is just that, a possibility. Which reinforces impulsiveness cos your Sun is square Uranus (which i have) and suggests impatience and wanting to do something different, unusual that will involve the ego and pride in some way.Also being in 8th house of Scorpio naturally and in your chart Aquarius, by blending all three then. Your ego, pride would be involving possibly in financial resources of other people, life after death matters, good of the deceased, insurances, inheritances, all things deep and meaningful and transformational.

Lack of earth element suggests the focus is on other areas, in your case water/the emotions empathysing, sympathising. What do you do workwise? Aries MC has good leadership qualities and cuts through any red tape, is good for military careers but placed in 4th home roots suggests you could even work from home, be self employed, work within family business. I have 4in fire 4earth and it doesn't suggest being a money maker, just that I'm practical down to earth and good with my hands..

Saturn returns are notoriuos for making us grow up, settle down into homelife, marriage and think about having family..

Mars/Pluto aspect can go both ways and suggests strong ego, sexual drives and cravings for power/control.

Mars‑Pluto Conjunction
When there is a conjunction between two planets that both have to do with the wish for self‑expression, with the wish to prove oneself and to make one’s mark, then there is an almost compulsive need to show off combined with enormous will‑power. Pluto intensifies the executive force of Mars and puts us in possession of an almost inexhaustible supply of energy and incredible resilience. The craving for power (Pluto) on the other hand is activated by the Mars so that we really want to take the reins in our hands and are fired by boundless ambition.

We can usually look after ourselves; we do not brook the least opposition but ram opinions down people`s throats and go our own way without fear or favour. The aspect has been termed destructive, but need not be so provided we have an outlet for our strong drive and ambition. A splendid way of using energy constructively is in competitive sport; politics is another option. We do not spare ourselves. Whatever we engage in ‑ politics, science, sport, occultism, etc ‑ we throw ourselves into it heart and soul, outstripping many of our rivals and making a name for ourselves. Life`s challenge attracts us and we get a kick out of playing for high stakes.

The activity of Mars is enhanced by Pluto and we are quick to push ourselves into precarious situations. In more placid times we can eagerly mastermind a strategy for pulling off some coup or other. The person with a Mars‑Pluto conjunction has a strong, extremely inflexible will, and is not to be balked. We will run our lives without reference to current rules and ­regulations. If we are thwarted, we can go to extremes, sometimes gradually cutting ourselves off from everybody.


From the book ‘Aspects and Personality’ by Karen Hamaker-Zondag
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