Analysis of the Stimulus package(Reinvestment Act)

[Awakened_Pisces]

If anyone happens to have a clarified time, please tell me but I chose 8:30 given it's timing into the evening and that's when most people want to do things.

Possibly the late degree Aquarius Sun shows that I may have messed up with the timing but I do find the rest of the chart interesting:

A T-Square consisting of 3 planets:

Moon in Saggitarius

Saturn in Virgo

Uranus in Pisces

Now, given the Saturn-Uranus opposition being a global transit to an extent people normally don't read into it. But I think it matters here, given that Uranus is in the 6th house of public work, relations and that Saturn(The greater malefic) is inside of the 12th house of secret enemies.

Perhaps I should up the time by 5-10 mins as the Sun is obviously unaspected at 29 degrees. But there's a slim Venus-Pluto Square and Venus is the ASC/8TH house.

Interesting stuff, so if anyone can give me an more probable time, I'm more then welcome

[This astrology is the astrology of current issues, so moved to Astrology Now! - Moderator]

[venusfriend]

this is the time it was signed. Watson was watching it live and allowed 1 minute for delayed telecast.

[Awakened_Pisces]

This chart is also good and it clearly shows the situation we're in

It shows Venus in the 10th house of Government applying in a Bi-Sextile with the Moon in the 6th house to the 8th house Jupiter in Aquarius

It makes sense as Venus=Giving out money, etc> to the Moon(Ruler of the ASC the people). to Jupiter(Inflation)

Even More interesting is that Uranus and Saturn almost hit on the angles. Saturn by 2 degrees and Uranus by n4 degrees. On the IC/MC axis.

I can't help but worry about Saturn on the IC. The 4th/10th opposition axis is one in politics that screams "It doesn't work", especially on the AXIS interests me.

I wouldn't be surprised if indeed the signing was a bit earlier. I'd have to modify the chart accordingly to see the speed of Saturn/Uranus. If the speeds can be worked out then I am damned going to assume they were signed exactly on the 4th/10th axis. Neptune is also applying in a square to Chiron, the wounded warrior/experiences in love etc.

Needless to say, it's played out that way. The Stimlus package has been very very far from productive for America.

[Matthew The Astrologer]

I dunno... I look at it and see an applying Moon/Venus trine, an elevated Jupiter ruling that Moon, a Mercury/Saturn mutual reception (by traditional rulerships), and half the planets in the chart ruled by an elevated Uranus/Neptune mutual reception. And the date in question was less than a month ago... has there been time to say it has been "very very far from productive"?

[Awakened_Pisces]

I didn't know Jupiter Ruled the Moon, I thought it would rule Saggitarius and that's it Matt. Care to elaborate? You are right about that.

I think the Venus-Moon application again points to me as the Government willingly giving the money away=bailouts.

I assume traditionally Uranus rules Capricorn and Neptune of course rules Pisces.

We the people are the Sun. The Sun is in an Aneric degree. Go figure.

Change, we can believe in that. Have fun looking for pennies.

[Matthew The Astrologer]

The Moon is in Sagittarius in this chart, thus it is ruled/disposited by Jupiter.

Traditionally, Aquarius is ruled by Saturn. And Uranus rules Aquarius in modern terms, and Neptune rules pisces. being in each's others signs, there is thus a mutual reception. Uranus doesn't "traditionally" rule anything, not being a "traditional" planet.

This may very well be a case of seeing what you want to see in a birth chart, in both our cases. Now, you quote Reagan and i quote FDR, and a year from now we'll see who was right.

[Awakened_Pisces]

FDR was on the right track before he introduced the "new"(NO) Deal. What a stupid concept, outspending debt. It didn't work in Japan in the 90's and it sure as hell isn't going to work now.

Don't get me wrong, you might prolong the hurt but that's all you can hope to accomplish on Stimulus.

If the Mods don't mind me explaining here: It does deal with the topic of discussion IMO.

In order for a stimulus to be completely and utterly productive, you will have to spend enough money to create as many programs as possible. But then, it boils down to how much money those jobs net. Remember, Spending Resources that you have is creating debt. Spending Resources that you DON'T have is adding MORE DEBT.

In this case, we're hoping that we get enough money to pay off both the stimulus and the DEBT. It NEVER works that way. Stimulus does indeed end up "paying for itself" Which is a BAD THING. It was supposed to pay off the debt you morons.

You can never outspend debt, Kensyean Economics was the worst thing to happen to America. 20 years after the end of the WW2, we suffered the 10 year recession.

5-15 years, always and will continue as long as we support Kenyan Economics.

Save your money

Continue to work hard and earn more money

Slowly pay off the debt.

Yes, the Markets will run slower, the economy will continue to be in a downturn. But guess what? They were anyway, you just added a BIGGER debt to deal with when the stimulus runs out of steam.

This crisis started because there was far too much spending and not enough saving. Whether the Dems or Repubs did anything with Fannie and Freddie wouldn't have mattered. They already ******* up when Bush allowed the Minorities in this country to grab everything and expected them to pay legitimate majority wages.

Combine that with Banking Manipulations(Consistency in the market place is CRUCIAL) and you have one of the worst managed economys in years. And Obama is turning to Kenysean Economics of ALL FAILED IDEAS.

**Shakes his head in disbelief**

[Matthew The Astrologer]

Um... I had an amusing response planned to your statement...

http://matthewastrology.blogspot.com...an-monkey.html

...until I got to your part about "when Bush allowed the Minorities in this country to grab everything and expected them to pay legitimate majority wages."

Let me be really clear on this: you are blaming a large portion of the world's current economic problems on... minorities?

Please, can you be specific? Which minorities are we talking about?

[Awakened_Pisces]

Minority homeowners, minority bankers. Anyone with a low-level income that tried to grab something that normally would have taken them years because of that idiot Bush.

[Matthew The Astrologer]

So, *ethnic* minorities? Come on... say it. Which minorities? Please, be specific.

[Awakened_Pisces]

I was being specific. Those with low-level incomes. The ones George Bush targetted with his 2005 Mortgage plan.

[Matthew The Astrologer]

Ah, so by "minority" you mean "low income."

Which "low income" bankers were involved?

[Awakened_Pisces]

Perhaps the term "low-income" + bankers isn't exactly accurate.

But the world economic crisis was caused by those two main things.

1)Bush's de-regulation(Which is NOT Free Enterprice, it's reckless enteprise there's a difference. And it isn't capitalistic it's STUPID. Like the Kenysan econmics are.

2)The World being so heavily brought into the US System.

Since Obama supports Kenyesean Economics, we might see a 1980's style depression. Hopefully he isn't too dumb to bring us to 1940 levels. Then GOD have we elected change alright.

It's like choosing between a pre-teen(Bush) and a baby(Obama). Both are utterly incompetent and inexperienced for such a job/field. But to each to one's own.

[Matthew The Astrologer]

Ah, glad we cleared that up. "Bush allowed the Minorities..." sounded a little, um, Mein Kamph for my tastes.

I agree that deregulation is the cause of it (especially given that the healthiest banks in the world are now in Canada and sweden, which didn't go through the same frenzy of diminished capitalization requirements the rest of the world did through the 90s and 00s).

But, how do you explain the 80s recession, which happened under the purview of Ronald Reagan, who was about as anti-Keynsian as you could get?

And I'm wondering which 1940s levels you are referring to, given that the 40s were generally a lot healthier than the 30s.

Is your objection to Keynesian economics based, at all, on your apparent belief that President Obama is the Antichrist, as stated here:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=12412

?

[Awakened_Pisces]

My objection to Kernesian Economics is mostly because it is the stupidest thing I have ever read or heard of and I honestly want to choke the guy who came up with it.

Listen to yourself: You can outspend your debt? Frankly, THAT'S impossible. Even Republican Alan Keyes admits it(He should run in 2012 with Ron Paul. Now that's change we can believe in)

"We believe a bankrupt government can save a bankrupt bank now tell me how that happens"-Alan Keyes

Sir, I can't. But everyone else claims that you can lol. No, that's not how it works in economics. We might wanna restudy and get our heads out of kiddy science.

The money that you have are RESOURCES. You are a Resource to GET that money, Whenever you spend money, you LOSE your resources. In exchange for other resources(Food, Clothing, ETC). In order to have a net worth or a surplus. You must have money leftover, money you saved.

Stimulus doesn't do that. Stimulus pays for "itself"(IE: Can't make enough money to pay for itself and the debt).

Stimulus is like shocking a guy with electronics so he can live and we've been doing that for a while now. So now we're at the point where we gotta give him one big mother of a jolt to live. And hey, it may actually work.

Or it could cause eventual/immediate heart failure and he dies.

With the World Economy suffering because we ask them to keep on piling up debt, we will all die.

Kenysean Economics=STUPID, STUPID STUPID.

[venusfriend]

Originally Posted by Confusedpisces

Stimulus is like shocking a guy with electronics so he can live and we've been doing that for a while now. So now we're at the point where we gotta give him one big mother of a jolt to live. And hey, it may actually work.

this is what i have been thinking about the stimulus package, but with a different analogy.

the moon is strong aspected in the chart, sextiling mars/jupiter and trining venus. that sounds positive because of the harmonious aspects. but this combination i think points to a good spend up, which may help the economy, but may ultimately do more damage because of the increased national debt. it may proove difficult to dig upwards out of the gaping hole.

the moon in conjunct ANTARES (08') "favorable for business and domestic matters, active in local affairs, great power, honor and wealth but benefits may not prove lasting,"

spending up on the foreign credit card sounds risky for the USA, especially if the creditors turn out to be future enemies. they already have the USA bent over, they might ask for the pants to come down soon.

[Mr stellium]

That does look like a good chart but there is one major fly in the ointment:
The Saturn/Uranus opposition occurs on the MC/IC axis virtually unaspected warning of a runaway crisis which will rock the foundations of the country if this stimulus package fails.

[venusfriend]

Originally Posted by Mr stellium

That does look like a good chart but there is one major fly in the ointment:
The Saturn/Uranus opposition occurs on the MC/IC axis virtually unaspected warning of a runaway crisis which will rock the foundations of the country if this stimulus package fails.

"rock the foundations", couldn't have put it better myself. retrograde i guess doesn't help things.

the recent full moon conjuncts this saturn (49'), putting in focus for the next 2 weeks. the full moon is on DENEBOLA (74'). that's a wide orb for a fixed star but i still think it is important because of its uranian nature, and being involved in this opposition to uranus.

"The 'Tail of the Lion' has a Uranian nature and it is supposed that, in mundane horoscopes, major catastrophes are triggered off by it."

[Matthew The Astrologer]

Well... Keynesian economics may be "the stupidest thing you ever heard of," but there are an awful lot of economists (and others) who would disagree with you. Like, about three generations of them. It may seem counter-intuitive to you... but that doesn't make it "stupid."

It's like Schrodinger's Cat in Physics... or the notion that a ball of rock that NASA lands probes on has anything to do with your sex drive or blood pressure in Astrology. It rubs a lot of people the wrong way, but honest investigation shows it's real, and it works. Dismissing it as "spending your way out of a recession" assumes the mindset that you are a shopper blowing it all on credit. It's not like that. It's more like your boss spending money on your paycheque, and then in turn you work to produce value for your boss.

Put another way: FDR, Keynesian, brought the world out of the Depression and gave America the infrastructure in needed to lead the world throughout the 20th Century. Clinton, modified Keynesian, ran a balanced budget. The Bush lot listened to Milton Friedman (and by the way, even Milton Friedman called Keyne's central work, "The General Theory"... "great".) And look how that ended up. It just seems to me that you've relied on dogma rather than research to reach you conclusions, and then ignored an applying Moon-Venus trine (with the Moon aspecting it's own dispositor, Jupiter, to boot... Thank you, Venusfriend) in favour of a biseptile because of that bias.

[Awakened_Pisces]

Let's look at the Astrology:

Sun Trine Pluto: This aspect has generally been associated with a boost in confidence, power, etc. As we look into the Sixth House of PUBLIC Work. I would venture that the majority of the money went to the Public, not Private Sector. Oh well.

Moon Quntile Chiron: Too bad the aspect is seperating. Had Obama waited a bit longer and the Q applied, maybe that would've shown a possibility for Recovery. But a seperating aspect shows that the time for that is up. But since the aspect is tight, who knows. It might indicate that early on, recovery goes well but l8r on it struggles.

I also love how Virgo(Ruler of IC=Us), Mercury is being squared by the Mars-Jupiter conjunction in the 8th house. Well, I don't love it from the aspect that I am an American who loves all other Americans.

But I do love how even Astrology says F U to Kenysean .

Sadly Mars is in the 10th house of Government, Sextile Venus. As was posted in Myspace, this looks like(and I projected it when I heard of the bill) as a gain in power for Government.

The people will fight this, as the active square to the ASC, Moon(Representive of Americans) shows. I just hope they do it in kindred spirit.

**Sigh** Do wait untill 2012, this administration has no intention for the American People as shown by the Uranus Conjunct MH. Even Saturn opposes the MH.

[Matthew The Astrologer]

Originally Posted by Confusedpisces

Let's look at the Astrology:

Sun Trine Pluto: This aspect has generally been associated with a boost in confidence, power, etc. As we look into the Sixth House of PUBLIC Work. I would venture that the majority of the money went to the Public, not Private Sector. Oh well.

Moon Quntile Chiron: Too bad the aspect is seperating. Had Obama waited a bit longer and the Q applied, maybe that would've shown a possibility for Recovery. But a seperating aspect shows that the time for that is up. But since the aspect is tight, who knows. It might indicate that early on, recovery goes well but l8r on it struggles.

I also love how Virgo(Ruler of IC=Us), Mercury is being squared by the Mars-Jupiter conjunction in the 8th house. Well, I don't love it from the aspect that I am an American who loves all other Americans.

But I do love how even Astrology says F U to Kenysean .

Sadly Mars is in the 10th house of Government, Sextile Venus. As was posted in Myspace, this looks like(and I projected it when I heard of the bill) as a gain in power for Government.

The people will fight this, as the active square to the ASC, Moon(Representive of Americans) shows. I just hope they do it in kindred spirit.

**Sigh** Do wait untill 2012, this administration has no intention for the American People as shown by the Uranus Conjunct MH. Even Saturn opposes the MH.

The first aspect you chose was a positive one, but then you chose the most sarcastic take on it. Then you skip over all the positive Moon/Venus/Jupiter stuff -- major aspects, strong house placements... the first place one would normally look for material prosperity in a chart... in favor of a quintile to an asteroid. Of course you didn't miss out on the potential negatives, which are always present in every chart, somehow. But it's interesting you point out the square to Mercury... perhaps the intent and function of this Act isn't being communicated properly. Or maybe if Ron Paul doesn't say it, the paranoia-prone don't hear it.

Astrology doesn't say F U To Keynesian economics... Astrology doesn't say F U to anything or anyone. You did.

Mars in the 10th House of Government? As in, "government takes bold action?" Yup. And again, you blow off the positive aspect to Venus.

Observer Bias is a hazard in any field of endeavor. If a client comes to you for a reading wondering if he/she is ever going to get married, and your first thought is "My God, you're fat," then you are much more likely to overlook all the potential positives and dig up obscure aspects and asteroids with silly names and unproven techniques to back your contention -- conscious or otherwise -- that the client is too chubby for anyone to get close to, let alone marry.

I think that's exactly the trap you've fallen into here. You've letting your dogma interpret the chart for you... like Rush Limbaugh wanting the President to fail.

[Awakened_Pisces]

Hey, I don't want him to fail I'm an American. Don't compare me to that drone Limbaugh. Again, Venus is positive for sure. But she only plays the role of distributing money. That's all.

That it's not being properly communicated to the people? As Mercury rules over that aspect of life it most definately is and has went that way. Normally, I'd intrepret it as such. But since Mercury is the ruler of the IC, she becomes much more significant then mere communication

Mercury also rules intelligence, the people perhaps were and are double thinking about whether they made the right choice on NOV.4.

The Sun being in a critical degree doesn't exactly make me feel too hot either.

I could be a pessimist like you state. Who knows, perhaps the power the Sun gains from Pluto and the rays of light the Sixth House recieve from Venus will result in the restructuring of the economy.

But as Stellium noted, and I did before: The MC/IC axis and the opposition which is still in very large effect. When it comes to 4th/10th house relations in Politics, it's a pretty fair warning that it's not going to go well or there's danger.