I've been `channeling' my mother - agghh!!!

[R4VEN]

OK, I'm sticking my neck out a bit here, and am about to put more information about me here than which I'm totally comfortable. Bear with me as I try to be brief..................and as I lay myself bare...........

I have a difficult moon placement - in Cancer, in 6th house, and squaring a conj of Neptune, Mars & MC, all in Libra. (see chart below)

My mother, despite her best intentions, was at times very verbally and physically abusive, and I was a sensitive kid. I'd try to please her, but nothing seemed to work. I've done a huge amount of personal healing work in relation to this (she died in 1997) and I recognise her own wounding in relation to her own life, and her unfulfilled dreams. I believe she was very gifted, but never had any opportunities, then she married a farmer (my father) who kept her down so that she wouldn't make him look bad. I no longer blame my mother for this; she had a seriously difficult relationship with her mother. I was relieved to have sons and not daughters, and now I know why.

I've been aware for some time that I've lived her life - the good with the bad - and her unfulfilled dreams, and I have a powerful sense of not having got around to living my own life yet. I didn't particularly want to become a teacher, but I did - this is what she would have done had she had the opportunity. I married a man somewhat compulsively, and he ended up being very much like a combination of my father and my dead brother - the death of this brother was never ever dealt with by my mother. I could go on & on & on. Almost every experience I have had as an adult has had powerful links to her. My life has not just been a bit like hers, it has been hers, and it has come directly from her!!

I visited my kinesiologist last week, and he asked me had I ever been sexually abused - well, no, I hadn't. He said the `signature' of this was in my body. I know that my mother had been. It occurred to me this morning that the depression I've experienced for much of my life, but more severely in the past 25 years, was in relation to her life, and actually has little to do with me!! Weird. It's as though I've been expressing her wounds, her thoughts, her unfulfilled wants and dreams, her desires from this place in my body where she wounded me. It's as though she `transplanted' her wounds into my body - like she swapped my hard-drive for her own. There actually was a serious event of abuse by her when I was about 4, and a certain part of the body was the focus; it's that part of me which is currently playing up, almost as a sign to me that `something', like the sum total of her wounds, was `implanted' in me during this event. Back in the 90's I used to watch The X-Files, and I'd get shivers when Scully discovered the implant in her neck.

I feel as though my interest in astrology and numerology has been the first interest of my own I've pursued - and stuck to - in my whole life! I've had interests which were purely my own, but I always gave them up, like I wasn't `allowed' to do it.

Any thoughts about this?
Has anyone else ever heard of this?
Note also I have Uranus almost on the 6th house cusp, so body/health weirdness is totally possible.
(Sorry this post is so epic, but I felt I had to get this message across accurately. I've not been `copying' my mother, I have never wanted to do that - I have been her!)

[freedomlover]

Any thoughts about this?
Has anyone else ever heard of this?
Note also I have Uranus almost on the 6th house cusp, so body/health weirdness is totally possible.
(Sorry this post is so epic, but I felt I had to get this message across accurately. I've not been `copying' my mother, I have never wanted to do that - I have been her!

I'm still reeling from your post, Raven.
For now, all I can get out is I think you and I were Siamese Twins separated at birth.

FL

[Moulin]

Perfectly possible, and as a fellow Kinesiologist l concur that memory or implanted memory/life experience can be seen in Kinesiology.

[freedomlover]

Another quick note...

I took a look at your chart, and felt led to check for solar arcs. Solar Arc Mars and Neptune in Libra/9th house both hit your MC at age 4. 9th house has a connection to our belief systems, and patterns of thinking carried over from past lives. Very likely whatever happened at age 4 triggered the event from your past life.

The ruler of your MC is Venus in Cancer, the sign of the mother, in the 6th house - your house of health. 6th house also rules discernment, judgments we make about certain things. Cancer also rules our soul memory/history - as well as a connection to the mass consciousness.

Also, your Solar Arc Sun in Leo, ruler of your 8th house, hit your natal Pluto in Leo in the 7th at age 4. This natal Sun/Pluto conjunction ( natally 4 degree orb) is sextile your Mars/Neptune conjunction.

The ruler of your 7th, the Moon in Cancer is semisextile Pluto ( and so the Sun's Solar Arc to Pluto at age 4, as well.) I always think of a semisextile as a "blind spot"- something that is there with you, but you don't see it, kind of thing. It can also have a "snake in the grass" kind of meaning.

What's your take on these things I've pointed out? I would guess that they point to the nature of the wounding.

FL

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by freedomlover

Another quick note...

I took a look at your chart, and felt led to check for solar arcs. Solar Arc Mars and Neptune in Libra/9th house both hit your MC at age 4. 9th house has a connection to our belief systems, and patterns of thinking carried over from past lives. Very likely whatever happened at age 4 triggered the event from your past life.

The ruler of your MC is Venus in Cancer, the sign of the mother, in the 6th house - your house of health. 6th house also rules discernment, judgments we make about certain things. Cancer also rules our soul memory/history - as well as a connection to the mass consciousness.

Also, your Solar Arc Sun in Leo, ruler of your 8th house, hit your natal Pluto in Leo in the 7th at age 4. This natal Sun/Pluto conjunction ( natally 4 degree orb) is sextile your Mars/Neptune conjunction.

The ruler of your 7th, the Moon in Cancer is semisextile Pluto ( and so the Sun's Solar Arc to Pluto at age 4, as well.) I always think of a semisextile as a "blind spot"- something that is there with you, but you don't see it, kind of thing. It can also have a "snake in the grass" kind of meaning.

What's your take on these things I've pointed out? I would guess that they point to the nature of the wounding.

FL

Thank you, Moulin, for your comments re kinesiology and body memory.

And freedomlover, I know less than nothing at all about solar arcs, so thanks so much for what you have written here. It certainly resonates.
I never know what to make of the whole past-life connection, because we cannot actually `prove' this, but I always felt that my mother and I had a kind of fated role with one another. There were times when we'd look at one another, and I'd feel such a sense of "Why me? Why us?" I know that she felt pained about me being in her life also, as I was an outgoing, upfront child who reminded her of everything she'd never be, had never been allowed to be. Her own mother was truly a twisted person...

The ages of 4 and 13 were times of dramatic events for me. At 4, I experienced maybe 3 or so `events' with my mother, and at around the same time my 3 older brothers electrocuted me (here's the Uranus factor) - and my mother's response to this was, "You should stay away from them. You know what they're like."
Other things happened at 13 - too complicated for here - but one of the most dramatic was the death of my oldest brother. The interesting thing about these ages is that when my mother was 4 she was sexually abused, and her mother was 13 when she was sexually abused. Thus, my body has carried this `memory', and I had different types of abuse at these ages.

And that semisextile interests me. I must do some research on that.

:39:

[freedomlover]

Raven

And freedomlover, I know less than nothing at all about solar arcs, so thanks so much for what you have written here. It certainly resonates.
I never know what to make of the whole past-life connection, because we cannot actually `prove' this, but I always felt that my mother and I had a kind of fated role with one another. There were times when we'd look at one another, and I'd feel such a sense of "Why me? Why us?" I know that she felt pained about me being in her life also, as I was an outgoing, upfront child who reminded her of everything she'd never be, had never been allowed to be. Her own mother was truly a twisted person...

The ages of 4 and 13 were times of dramatic events for me. At 4, I experienced maybe 3 or so `events' with my mother, and at around the same time my 3 older brothers electrocuted me (here's the Uranus factor) - and my mother's response to this was, "You should stay away from them. You know what they're like."
Other things happened at 13 - too complicated for here - but one of the most dramataic was the death of my oldest brother. The interesting thing about these ages is that when my mother was 4 she was sexually abused, and her mother was 13 when she was sexually abused. Thus, my body has carried this `memory', and I had different types of abuse at these ages.

And that semisextile interests me. I must do some research on that.

Solar Arcs are very telling for things like this, I have found. What your brothers did to you certainly seems to describe the Solar Arc activity. That is absolutely awful! I'm sure a child would think they didn't have much protection from abuse after going through something like that. Your Solar Arc Mercury in Leo hit your natal Pluto at age 13. Solar Arc Sun was conjuncting your natal Saturn in Leo, which rules your ASC and 2nd house, as well.Your Solar Arc Venus was coming into an exact hit with your natal Moon around this same time, but probably a few months later. Solar Arc Moon hit your DSC around age 12, but it could have been around 13, I guess, if your birth time is off by a couple of minutes- not sure.

Also, I just had the thought to see what Solar Arc activity you had going on right now. Your Solar Arc Sun is hitting your natal Mars/Neptune conjunction and your Solar Arc Pluto is hitting your natal MC!!!!!! I would say that that is why this is becoming so clear to you. It sounds like it is "coming up for healing". The Solar Arcs have triggered the root incident!

I have read where often the wound from the past life gets triggered in this one at about the same age. Perhaps it works the same in generational wounds, as well.

FL

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by freedomlover

Solar Arc Moon hit your DSC around age 12, but it could have been around 13, I guess, if your birth time is off by a couple of minutes- not sure.

Also, I just had the thought to see what Solar Arc activity you had going on right now. Your Solar Arc Sun is hitting your natal Mars/Neptune conjunction and your Solar Arc Pluto is hitting your natal MC!!!!!! I would say that that is why this is becoming so clear to you. It sounds like it is "coming up for healing". The Solar Arcs have triggered the root incident!

I have read where often the wound from the past life gets triggered in this one at about the same age. Perhaps it works the same in generational wounds, as well.

FL

My birth time is pretty accurate, although may be a minute out.

At age 12 my family moved to a farm in a remote area, and the family was fractured, with 2 of my older brothers remaining in `civilisation' to continue with their education. That was quite a turning point in my mother's life (she had to leave behind a brand new house to live in an awful old place in the bush - she never got over that...) and also in mine. My mother tried to be happy about the move, but I seemed to `push her buttons' and she had such outbursts of rage, all of which I can now understand, but at the time I was confused, thinking it was me.

I'm sure what I've been dealing with has been a generational wound - going back as far as my grandmother, perhaps even further. I've noticed that my 3-yr-old grandson has `repeated' some dramatic events in the lives of both his parents. As he turns 4 in July, I wanted to have this 4-yr-old stuff of mine at least `exposed' and named so that the poor little kid doesn't have to act out my stuff also.

And that solar arc stuff for now is a bit mind-blowing to say the least. I also have the tr Uranus-Saturn opposition across my 3rd-9th house, which seems relevant.

Thanks again, FL

[astrologer50]

You have prob seen my links around the forum for solar arcs but if you wanted to do bit more research....

Solar arcs are really simple, especially for beginners, just move the Angles, Asc, Desc, MC, IC 1' for each year of your life onto planets and vice versa. Not just used for rectification either. Under age 12 though these interpretations are directed towards family changes, maybe relocation, job changes, illnesses, additions to family etc. Another example is my Pluto is 28' Leo in 7th house and my Uranus is 3' Leo in same house to subtract these and you get age 25. That year my then husband and I had an almighty explosion (Uranus) and transformation (Pluto) of that marriage that started the demise and ultimate ending thereof....

Further research on solar arcs try these threads.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12024&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12958&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6691&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/rectification.html
http://www.frankstar.com/solararc.htm
http://thezodiac.com/arcs.htm
http://www.donmc.com/Comparing%20Transits%20and%20Solar%20Arcs%20II.htm
http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/solar_arc_directions.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression

Interesting thread, have you ever thought of hypnotherapy regression? Your moon square mars is the typical bossy mother syndrome and square to neptune suggested confused relationship with mother and emotional disillusionment. Cos pisces rules 3rd communications were affected and cancer/moon rules 7th one to one relationships were also brought into the equation. I expect Neptune conj MC a difficult thing to gets to grips with unless of course you are a medium/clairvoyant and use those spiritual assets for the good of all.

Neptune is also very good at 'wearing different hats' and being different things to different people...

[waybread]

R4ven, I know exactly what you mean. Astrology does work through generational patterns--or destinies. Would you like me to give some feedback to you, or will you tell me again that you are not writing a book on this subject?

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by waybread

R4ven, I know exactly what you mean. Astrology does work through generational patterns--or destinies. Would you like me to give some feedback to you, or will you tell me again that you are not writing a book on this subject?

Haha!! I do often come across as a bossy bee-itch, don't I? I intend no hurt or harm. I often use too many words to express myself, and many of them come out wrong. I'd be interested in your thoughts, waybread.

As it turns out, have found myself another kinesiologist - one who is familiar with the sorts of generational patterns my body carries, and this kinesiologist is also an astrologer!!! Her opening remarks to me were something like: "How do you handle Neptune? You know that being a sensitive, you must protect yourself at all times." She's right, but perhaps around 58 years too late with that advice. One thing my body `told' her on around my 2nd visit was that it was my karma to leave my marriage (at age 36) because for 7 generations of my female line women had wanted to take their children from their marriages (they were all farmers' wives, and farm life in early Australia was v. tough on women and children), but the social (and economic) circumstances had not allowed this to occur. Essentially, I had to firstly do this in order to break the pattern of subservience to, and dependence upon men which women in my female line had experienced.

astrologer50, you mentioned hypnotherapy......... to be honest, I feel that I have become my own hypnotherapist!!! The tr conjunction between Neptune & Chiron has dissolved a lot of the `normal' boundaries which have existed between different times and realities, and the emerging of hidden truths has become quite a spontaneous process.
I still have my mother's unexpressed emotions coming out of my body - not as often or as strongly, but some underlying beliefs (about the value of women) have been emerging slowly. Yesterday I took my car in to have a rattle looked at. Intuitively I knew it was just something needed tightening, and the cost would be minimal, but as I was having a coffee in the mall, waiting for my phone to ring, I became overwhelmed with a sense of dread, and I became quite emotional. When I got `beneath' this emotion, it turned out to be my mother's belief (reinforced by her father and my father) that women should be dependent upon men, and shouldn't have cars of their own, because this gives them too much freedom!!!! Now, I knew this was `from another time' in history, but it had still been running my life. And it was only a few screws which needed tightening, so the cost was of repairs minimal.

[waybread]

R4ven, thanks. If I get a bit didactic at times it is because I spent many years in classroom teaching. Also I think a lot of neophytes read threads to learn more astrology so I tend to throw in teaching moments, less to the poster than to the Astrologers' Community. You know the saying, "Old teachers don't die, they just lose their class." So please excuse another "lecture."

I think there are two ways to look at the issues you've raised.

One is to set aside the astrology and to look at them from a psychological viewpoint. It has been very common for parents who feel frustrated and limited in their own aspirations to try to live them through their children. Classic examples would be the Stage Mother pushing her daughter into an acting career, or Beethoven's father beating him to make him practice. Naturally, a young dependent child is going to absorb a lot of this: "If I want Mom's approval, I better model the behaviour she expects." Or even, "If other people don't do what Mom says I should do, they'll be in trouble so I better correct them." Or even, "Adults naturally express their anger through physical and verbal abuse."

One thing that's very clear for childhood victims of abuse is that their parent/s [or other family members] have poorly developed boundaries about moral and immoral behaviour. Childhood victims of maternal incest report that they are not always clear where their personality begins and ends, and where their mother's personality begins and ends. Under such cases, an abuser's personality seemingly intrudes upon the individual.

It's NOMB, but do you suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder? This can show up as someone's consciousness simply "splitting" off from attention to reality. The person may appear as simply forgetful or careless, but actually their attention simply isn't present in the here-and-now, notably when they feel under stress or some incident triggers suppressed memories. This is common for victims of childhood physical or sexual abuse. The victim copes with abuse while it happens by having her mind simply go away from what is happening.

When babies or todlers are sexually abused, they often don't remember it because their brains aren't sufficiently developed; yet they may well "embody" it later in life, such as through PTSD, phobias, or precocious sexual behaviour.

If your brothers tried to electrocute you [as a "prank"?] then you experienced potentially life-threatening physical abuse. You also experienced betrayal from your mother when she failed to protect you or discipline your brothers.

So far as astrology goes, sometimes an abusive parent will show up in a chart as sun-Pluto [Dad] or Moon-Pluto [Mum] conjunctions, squares, or oppositions. As you know, the 3rd house of siblings and the 4th house of early childhood conditioning may also have afflicted planets. If you and your mother have name-sake asteroids [available via Astrodienst free charts pp.] you might see where these fall in one another's chart. You have to look at cognate names here: If Mother's name is Jane, and there's no asteroid named Jane, look for cognates in different cultures, such as Joan, Johanna, Jean, Jeanne, Ivana, Juanita, &c. If you can't find namesake asteroids, well, so be it.

Then there is the issue of generational destiny, which Liz Greene and Erin Sullivan have discussed. You do find astro-signatures running in families. An Australian astrologer, Alice Portman, also believes you can look at dwads for generational patterns, as well. In my immediate family, sun-Pluto contacts are very common (including sun in Scorpio.] I traced 7 or 8 generations down my maternal line, and found Moon-Mercury contacts to be extremely common, even allowing for no accurate birth time.

Why this should be the case, I don't know, although perhaps it expresses itself in psychological factors such as parenting styles. It is shocking how often my mother's voice in my head came out when I disciplined my children!

In your case, your IC of early childhood conditioning and Mom is ruled by Mars, squaring your very strong and sensitive moon (Mom, again) in Cancer. Mars conjunct Neptune/MC in this mix looks like a recipe for hurt feelings in your experience of your mother. [And just maybe, a recipe for depression.] Then your moon really doesn't make any other major aspects, so it is sort of predominantly canalized into this one set of expressions. Mercury is your moon's house cusp ruler, but with Cancer on Mercury's house cusp, giving you an immediate loop back to your moon, Mercury doesn't offer much relief. You do have a nice moon/Saturn novile, however!

The "way home" may be your north node in Taurus in the 4th house of your mother, home, and early childhood condition. I wonder whether you find the land/nature or any of the arts (music, painting) therapeutic. I would think, also, re-birthing or re-parenting your inner child.

How positive that you understand that your mother struggled with her own demons, and just couldn't let them go sufficiently to be a better parent.

[R4VEN]

Thank you for that, waybread. Interesting that you were a teacher, as so was I earlier in my life. I get a bit tasky and bossy at times, so that may be why this is. I found the discipline of running a classroom and sticking to a curriculum very difficult, so could only manage doing this in bursts of no more than 5 years at a time.

I created this thread initially in order to flush out anyone else with similar issues, as I was perceiving a lot of hidden `mother issues' (and still am!!) on the forum. At the time I wrote the original post I was in need of declaring my history in some kind of public way. With both parents dead, and none of my siblings interested in hearing about what I know (surprising that!) I felt that doing what I did might help me and others move through this stuff, as it can be crippling while it is held within. I was not necessarily looking for help, other than any further astrological insights others may have.

Yes, I have no doubt experienced PTSD for much of my life, but did not know what it was until the last 4-5 years or so. It is interesting how much the electrocution has influenced my life - much more than i had recognised. The most noticeable is that whenever I have purchased another car (always second-hand) the electrics on it have always given me trouble until I have spent lots of $$ on resoldering and rewiring, starter-motors and solenoids and such. Also, in relation to that event, my conclusion/belief about it was along the lines of: "There are those who want to kill me, and even my mother (whose job it should be to nurture me) doesn't seem to care, and has not protected me." Around 5 years ago I was able to speak with the middle of the older 3 brothers about this event, and through him get some insight into `what were they thinking?' He was very uncomfortable with this (we conversed on the phone, as he lives on the west coast of the continent), but I believe that his telling me his side of events somehow liberated him also, as well as giving me some understanding as to why they did it. (They conned me into grasping a wire which ran around the outside of the pig yard through which ran a regular pulse of 32v electricity - manageable for an adult, but a real shock for the body of a 4-yr-old. They got me to do it several times, each time promising that the power had been turned off.)

It wasn't until I read what you wrote here:
"Then your moon really doesn't make any other major aspects, so it is sort of predominantly canalized into this one set of expressions. Mercury is your moon's house cusp ruler, but with Cancer on Mercury's house cusp, giving you an immediate loop back to your moon, Mercury doesn't offer much relief. You do have a nice moon/Saturn novile, however!"
that I actually recognised how `locked in' my moon is to this whole arrangement. I also looked up Moon novile Saturn - `acceptance of difficulties and constraints', and `cheerful cynicism' - I can certainly relate to that. I tend to overdo that `cheerful cynicism'.

I also realise that it wasn't until I read your post above that the real connection between the 3rd house (siblings) cusp - Pisces - and that convoluted Neptune placement became clear to me. Somehow, the view of my chart by another seems so much clearer.......... maybe that's just Neptune!!

Thanks again, w.

EDIT: Just look up the name-sake asteroids.......... On my own chart, my mother's name asteroid is in my 8th house, and forms a close quintile with Chiron - how apt!!
My small grandson's name forms a quintile with my Neptune-Mars conjunction.He's now 4, so his presence always `brings' something to the surface for me from this time in my own life.

[waybread]

Thanks for the feedback!

As Uranus rules electricity and sudden upsets, it bears watching.

Congratulations on making a reflexive, constructive success of your life.

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by waybread

As Uranus rules electricity and sudden upsets, it bears watching.

waybread, I just had one of those mini-epiphanies, and this seems to have been sitting just below the conscious mind for a while.

Both my sons have natal Moon at 29 degr Pisces, so tr Uranus is forming an applying conjunction to their Moons.... which can also have some kind of effect upon me. This seems to be what is happening at my end - this `finishing off' of the electrocution event. When it re-emerged during the past couple of weeks I'd thought perhaps I was regressing.

[waybread]

Originally Posted by R4VEN

waybread, I just had one of those mini-epiphanies, and this seems to have been sitting just below the conscious mind for a while.

Both my sons have natal Moon at 29 degr Pisces, so tr Uranus is forming an applying conjunction to their Moons.... which can also have some kind of effect upon me. This seems to be what is happening at my end - this `finishing off' of the electrocution event. When it re-emerged during the past couple of weeks I'd thought perhaps I was regressing.

R4ven, I don't know if you've worked up a full genealogical spread of horoscopes, but I do think astro-issues can build up over several generations, then dissipate--ideally as the issue has lost its force.

My parents were both Plutonian/Scorpionic types of people. I would call our family outwardly OK and inwardly stressful-to-dysfunctional. My brother, sister, and I all have sun-Pluto aspects, though mine is the most difficult with Pluto broadly opposite my sun and broadly conjunct my [gibbous] moon. I was concerned after I began to study astrology that I might be passing along Pluto problems to my children. They both have sun-Pluto contacts, but they are benign.

So sometimes I wonder if one pre-incarnated family member sort of voluteers to embody a particular astrological configuration so that a build-up of energy can discharge. But if so, I don't know why this should happen.

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by waybread

So sometimes I wonder if one pre-incarnated family member sort of voluteers to embody a particular astrological configuration so that a build-up of energy can discharge. But if so, I don't know why this should happen.

Yes, I agree with that, waybread. I have had some insight during past few years of intense looking-inwards that - in my family, at least - this has been so, and I have had this `task' in my mother's family line. I have tremendous strength and endurance, and this has been necessary for me to even get from Point A to Point W (where I feel I am at now).

My siblings - all male - have walked away from our early family life and made good lives for themselves, with professions thay have valued and pursued and succeeded at. It has taken me some time to come to terms with my own part in all this. I have had to move well beyond the `this is so unfair' syndrome, and to embrace this task as my life purpose. So much was expected of me in my teens and early 20's, but I just could not sustain any kind of career path for very long, as everything felt meaningless. As hard as what I have had to do has been (and still is) at least I can recognise the meaning in it all. I recognise that my family members' abuse of me was for the express purpose of me picking it up and dealing with their own `stuff' as though it were my own. I am nothing if not thorough, so the job will get done, even if I have to live to my 90's in order to complete this.

My insight has also shown me that I came into this lifetime for the express purpose of doing this - although my mother had opportunities which she did not pick up on. When it was evident to me that she had dementia, and that she would never emerge from that, I was so mad at her....... but at that time I had no idea why it was I felt this way.

And to follow on from something you wrote in the above thread, waybread............... Pluto/Scorpio also plays a role in the significant `players' in my own family drama..... either as Sun conj Pluto, or Scorpio Sun or Asc, or even Pluto opposition Mars. A noticeable Pluto/Scorpio placement seems to `mark' a person who has a significant role to play in the Family Drama.

[waybread]

Well spoken, R4ven.

Why or how this should work, I am not clear, but I think it does work, however.

I think this all relates, too, to notions of vocation and destiny. Today we are so meant to feel that having the right work/career is what gives us meaning in life. Well, there are historical antecedants for this misconception, raning from Victorian morality to the Puritan work ethic, to socialism. But a horoscope--or suite of family horoscopes-- suggest/s that sometimes one's vocation or destiny lies in a very different realm.

Just possibly the north node is where to seek the key.

[Sunny]

Hi, R4VEN!
Just to say you that I admire your courage!
At every time children are vulnerable, but what happens now to you that must be a very greater opening for your conscious, therefore you are understanding your past in this new way.
What I find so interesting in your painful story is your feeling "not to be allowed to do".

Well, in your chart my attention was attracted by the Moon in the 6th. This position isn't so favourable because it seems for such a person that she'll be mostly dominated by others, just like a servant, and not be so free as everybody want it for himself. This could mean that your own feminity (Moon) is dominated or that your mother wasn't a free person in the way, that she had to be under the power of others.
Then, Uranus, second ruler of your ASC conjuncting Venus, ruler of MC and your mother, in the 6th, shows the sudden irritability with your mother (Moon) in the allday relationship, a violent irritability perhaps, too, and a tension between you.

Neptun conjuncting Mars, both rulers of the 3rd (your brothers) in the 9th and in the sign of Libra let me thinking that they entertain a strange (9th) relation (Libra) to you, that they are strangers for you with a behaviour of destructible (Mars) secracy (Neptune) or unvisible destructive actions. But it could show also the death of your elder brother.

I think, with this new conscious you got, you'll begin a new life - your own life.

Cheers
Sunny

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by Sunny

What I find so interesting in your painful story is your feeling "not to be allowed to do".

Well, in your chart my attention was attracted by the Moon in the 6th. This position isn't so favourable because it seems for such a person that she'll be mostly dominated by others, just like a servant, and not be so free as everybody want it for himself. This could mean that your own feminity (Moon) is dominated or that your mother wasn't a free person in the way, that she had to be under the power of others.
Then, Uranus, second ruler of your ASC conjuncting Venus, ruler of MC and your mother, in the 6th, shows the sudden irritability with your mother (Moon) in the allday relationship, a violent irritability perhaps, too, and a tension between you.

Neptun conjuncting Mars, both rulers of the 3rd (your brothers) in the 9th and in the sign of Libra let me thinking that they entertain a strange (9th) relation (Libra) to you, that they are strangers for you with a behaviour of destructible (Mars) secracy (Neptune) or unvisible destructive actions. But it could show also the death of your elder brother.

Firstly, waybread, your comment upon the Moon's North Node is very apt and insightful, given that it was only when I read about my MNN placement in Martin Schulmann's book that the penny began it's slow journey towards eventually dropping!! Understanding what is required from a 4th house MNN has been an essential step towards being prepared to accept my own personal destiny.

And Sunny, thank you also for your post. Your views into my chart have also been very useful for me, so thank you for that. Every little bit seems to be giving me a clearer picture, and a clearer picture means that my Neptunian fog lifts even further.

When I read the sentence which I have highlighted in the quote from your post, my mental answer was, "Both of these were true for me." That is, not only was my mother expected to bow down to the power (masculine, economic) of my (deeply, deeply insecure) Scorpio father, but `being female' was derided by both he and my brothers. [My father came into his marriage to my mother a wounded man, as he had 3 very clever and accomplished sisters, whilst I strongly suspect that he had had a degree of dyslexia and mild Asperger's, both of which remained undiagnosed, due to the times he lived in.] The fact that my father and brothers were confronted by my mother's and my intelligence and ease in social situations further sent them into behaviour which was at its core deeply disturbed and disturbing. My father held his hatred for (probably all) women closely guarded, whilst my brothers acted it out through their abuse of me. As a child I always believed this to be about me, but I now know that it was actually all about them, and their fears of not being good enough.

And in relation to my eldest brother - the one who died - he was usually the `brains' behind the abuse, and also he and I shared a birthday, as I was born in his 8th birthday, an indication of a fated, or karmic relationship. He also had Pluto widely conjunct Sun, and a probable conjunction also of Pluto and Moon, depending upon his time of birth.

What I have highlighted in red is a very, very close description to the everyday relationship which I had with my mother until I left home at age 15 to further my education in the city. Violent irritability - I could not have described it more accurately than that.............
Thanks again, Sunny.

[Sunny]

Hi, R4VEN!
Thank you very much for your grateful reply! You are a very heartful person and I understand very well your situation in which you are coming over! If I am right, your are in the beginning of your own liberation, and please, don't worry about, if your way will not be always strongly straight - that is normal in this sort of operation.

What I want to addict that is that your testimony is also very, very helpful for us and others, because we, too, we opened our own conscious.

Yes, this is here a very helpful forum, I see it every day more and more.

Cheers
Sunny

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by Sunny

What I want to addict that is that your testimony is also very, very helpful for us and others, because we, too, we opened our own conscious.

Yes, this is here a very helpful forum, I see it every day more and more.

Cheers
Sunny

Thanks again, Sunny.

I can see that my (almost unconscious) intention in putting my story up here in such detail has been for the reasons you describe. As I `wake up and heal', then so can many others with similar backgrounds.

[Sunny]

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by JerryRR

Hi R4VEN,

I would also suggest looking at your Draconic Chart.
You have Dr Asc 16Sag 46,12th House Natal Sag' comes to the Asc,con Natal Jupiter.
Dr Sun is in Cancer con Natal Ve/Ur.(Copper conductor)*
Dr Chiron in Libra con Natal Ma/Ne/Mc.
Dr Saturn also in Cancer con Natal Moon.
Dr Ve/Ur is in Taurus.

*Copper's atomic number is (29) and is in Group 11 of the Periodic Table.
The origin of the name is Cyprus.
Copper is highly thermal and the second highest conductor of electricity.
Its biological function is electron transportation and is found widely in human tissues,concentrated in the Liver,muscle and bone.

Jerry.

Jerry, you never cease to blow my mind!!!

Have done as you suggested, and yes, the connections to my own natal chart are significant.

I'm also curious as to why you mention copper in relation to Venus/Uranus... is this the `electrocution-factor'??
And dr Chiron being conj natal Mars/Nep/MC .... curiouser and curiouser....

Will PM you. There are a number of connections between my natal & dr charts, and those same charts of the brother who got me to grab the electrical wire. Most noticeably, his and my draconic Ascendants are conjunct to within 2 degr, and his dr Sun lies between both these ascendants, 1 degr from each. His jealousy of me knew no bounds. I no longer see or speak with him.

R

[Selene]

Hi R4VEN,

I was about to post something about my own issues with mom (although very different from your own) and after writing I clicked delete. Now seeing this, I have to say that you are one courageous woman for sharing your story publicly. Sharing your story is what will lead to the most profound healing possible. I am also sorry for the loss of your brother, death, especially that of a child leaves a scar that is transmitted across generations. I'm sure the same applies to what you are refering to here in your post.

Because I am an astrology novice, the first thing I looked at was whether or not you had any Moon-Chiron aspects. I noticed that you have a Moon-Chiron trine and this is how I view it... I believe that you are the one who will finally put an end to this generational transference because your trine indicates that you are capable of healing your wound. As you demonstrated here you have the insight and healing abilities to work through these issues and to teach others on how to heal their moon-chiron (aka "mommy issues").

After reading your post, I had an epiphany as well. I have a Moon-Chiron conjunction and I was going to make a thread entitled "Playing Mommy". Your post made me realize that it is my Moon-Chiron conjunction that leads me to assume the role of mother, even to my own mother, and that maybe there is some type of karmic link to this... who knows? Anyways, enough about me, I just wanted to point out how your thread helped me gain insight as well.

Thank you for sharing and displaying such courage.

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by Selene

I have to say that you are one courageous woman for sharing your story publicly. Sharing your story is what will lead to the most profound healing possible.

I am sure this was my real intention, rather than banging on endlessly about myself!!!!

Originally Posted by Selene

I am also sorry for the loss of your brother, death, especially that of a child leaves a scar that is transmitted across generations. I'm sure the same applies to what you are refering to here in your post.

I have been aware that this brother died for the same reasons that I have had to `carry' the heredity on my own shoulders, (and our shared birthday provides a kind of `proof' of that link.) There are a lot of dead children throughout the generations whose deaths were not fully acknowledged or grieved for. Whilst he died in 1962 I did not give myself permission to grieve for him until about 1998. At that time I recognised that I was grieving on behalf of both my parents - who by that time were both dead - and all the other parents back through my family line who lost children through sudden death. In 1962 my parents just `got on with it', continuing their lives as though nothing had happened. This was before Elisabeth Kubler-Ross had written her thesis on death and dying. However, their unexpressed grief hung in the air like an invisible fog, I was still living at home at the time, and I supposed that I just picked it up, like a spare pair of jeans.

Originally Posted by Selene

Because I am an astrology novice, the first thing I looked at was whether or not you had any Moon-Chiron aspects. I noticed that you have a Moon-Chiron trine and this is how I view it... I believe that you are the one who will finally put an end to this generational transference because your trine indicates that you are capable of healing your wound. As you demonstrated here you have the insight and healing abilities to work through these issues and to teach others on how to heal their moon-chiron (aka "mommy issues").

Thank you for that insight, Selene. That is certainly as it has been for me. I have been frustrated by the general lack of insight of my 3 brothers, and inability to see the family tree as anything other than a list of people who were farmers, or labourers, or housewives, or whatever. Your comments have helped me to accept this as it is, and to let go of any need for them to actually know what I have been doing!!

Originally Posted by Selene

After reading your post, I had an epiphany as well. I have a Moon-Chiron conjunction and I was going to make a thread entitled "Playing Mommy". Your post made me realize that it is my Moon-Chiron conjunction that leads me to assume the role of mother, even to my own mother, and that maybe there is some type of karmic link to this... who knows? Anyways, enough about me, I just wanted to point out how your thread helped me gain insight as well.

Thank you for sharing and displaying such courage.

Thank you for sharing that about your Chiron-Moon conjunction, Selene. I can remember taking part in your thread about your brother, and it is hard to believe that you are only 25!!! Chiron conj Moon certainly heightens the emotions and the receptive abilities, so your ability to see & hear what is actually happening renders you a naturally`mothering' type of person. Just as a mother needs to be able to be receptive to her child's needs at any time, you have this ability built in. And yes, I am finding that those who are ending up on this forum are almost all looking to clearing their family's energetic heredity, whether they are conscious of this or not.

I am sure that this can be achieved unconsciously, but it must be quicker and easier to do it with conscious intent. In the case of your own family situation, you are the one who `picked up' what was going on with your brother, so you acted upon what you knew. You can either feel overwhelmed and resentful about this, or you can just get on with it. I have had to `get on with it', even when I wanted to bail out. For me, bailing out is no longer an option.