Chart ruler and planet strength question

[gimzo23]

I would greatly appreciate some help with my chart ruler. Can anyone tell me if the sun is my chart ruler? I understand it being my ascendant ruler and final dispositor. But I'm not sure if it's also the chart ruler as Saturn is sitting there heavily on my Ascendant? I've sometimes read that a planet on the ascendant is the co-chart ruler along with the Ascendant ruler, and other times it's been written that the chart ruler is = just the planet ruling the ascendant sign. Is this just a matter of preference differing from astrologer to astrologer, or has one of which method been agreed on by most people and astrologers to be the correct one, or the one mostly used?

According to the Astrolog program, my Saturn is listed as only the 9th strongest planet overall in my chart. It's also listed as only the 12th strongest planet position-wise. I don't quite get this, as it's sitting there heavily on my Ascendant. Shouldn't this automatically make it much stronger, at least by position? I can see the Sun and Moon as pretty strong overall, but other than that, I just don't see how Saturn could be ranked so lowly. I don't have many other planets strong by position (I guess) or with many big aspects.

If anyone has a clue, an idea or can help me on this it would be greatly appreciated!

[hermetic]

Sun loses it's strengh being in the 12th - I am wondering are you feeling this?
Saturn is indeed strong and well-aspected but I think you alone can tell which planet influence you feel stronger - since generally Sun and Saturn are of distinct natures by themselves, very different and should be easy to separate.
I know a guy who is also a Leo Sun and Asc with Mercury and Saturn conjunction in the first house, this brought him much success in writing.

[gimzo23]

Hermetic, thanks for the reply. I'm not a typical Leo, so the sun probably indeed lost its Leo strength being positioned there. I feel my 12th house sun strongly in the sense of that I've always needed and desired much time on my own and liked to withdraw from the the world and the masses. It has always been a big thing for me. After a certain time among people, there is just a very strong desire from within to leave, go home and be on my own again. But, having my moon on the IC, I can't really distinguish this from having the sun in the 12th house. I can't really tell if it's the sun or the moon taking over at these times. It's probably the mix of both that make me such a private and reclusive person.

I have indeed always felt my AC Saturn strongly, which is why I wondered about it being positioned so lowly in Astrolog. That's interesting about your friend, or the guy you know. I never thought about becoming a writer, but I'm definitely more comfortable and a little better in writing than, say, in speaking in front of a group of people or something.

Thanks for the reply again. All the best

[Leon]

Originally Posted by gimzo23

I would greatly appreciate some help with my chart ruler. Can anyone tell me if the sun is my chart ruler? I understand it being my ascendant ruler and final dispositor. But I'm not sure if it's also the chart ruler as Saturn is sitting there heavily on my Ascendant? I've sometimes read that a planet on the ascendant is the co-chart ruler along with the Ascendant ruler, and other times it's been written that the chart ruler is = just the planet ruling the ascendant sign. Is this just a matter of preference differing from astrologer to astrologer, or has one of which method been agreed on by most people and astrologers to be the correct one, or the one mostly used?

According to the Astrolog program, my Saturn is listed as only the 9th strongest planet overall in my chart. It's also listed as only the 12th strongest planet position-wise. I don't quite get this, as it's sitting there heavily on my Ascendant. Shouldn't this automatically make it much stronger, at least by position? I can see the Sun and Moon as pretty strong overall, but other than that, I just don't see how Saturn could be ranked so lowly. I don't have many other planets strong by position (I guess) or with many big aspects.

If anyone has a clue, an idea or can help me on this it would be greatly appreciated!

What do you need to click in order to access that feature on Astrolog?

[waybread]

Gimzo, the "chart ruler" is defined as the planet ruling your rising sign. With your Leo rising, the sun is your chart ruler.

If someone has Virgo rising, then Mercury is her chart ruler. &c. The chart ruler may not be so strong as the sun, moon, and AS in a chart, but it is an important planet to watch. For one thing, as ruler of the first house, by its own house location and aspects, it says a lot about the visible person.

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

Gimzo, the "chart ruler" is defined as the planet ruling your rising sign. With your Leo rising, the sun is your chart ruler.

This is actually pretty debatable, Waybread. That may be the modern definition, but it's a very, very new one. The traditional definition of the chart ruler is the planet that has the most essential and accidental dignities in the natal chart and is called the Lord of Geniture (literally, the lord of birth).

Gizmo, according to my calculations, Venus is your Lady of Geniture. Do you have a crazy sweet tooth?

I wrote an article about the different ideas of a chart ruler and the different things that could apply, if you're interested.

http://ryoin.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/the-ruler-of-them-all/

If not, then it's just decoration.

[astrologer50]

This may help explain the 'chart ruler' a little better for you.

http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/r...sinhouses.html

[gimzo23]

Originally Posted by Leon

What do you need to click in order to access that feature on Astrolog?

You need to click on "chart", and in the pull-down menu you have to click on "influence". You can see the strengths of your signs, houses, planets and elements there.

[gimzo23]

Originally Posted by waybread

Gimzo, the "chart ruler" is defined as the planet ruling your rising sign. With your Leo rising, the sun is your chart ruler.

If someone has Virgo rising, then Mercury is her chart ruler. &c. The chart ruler may not be so strong as the sun, moon, and AS in a chart, but it is an important planet to watch. For one thing, as ruler of the first house, by its own house location and aspects, it says a lot about the visible person.

Yeah, that's the one version I often heard and read about. I just wasn't sure if it's generally regarded as the consensus right one by most today, though, as I've read about other versions as well.

[gimzo23]

Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi

This is actually pretty debatable, Waybread. That may be the modern definition, but it's a very, very new one. The traditional definition of the chart ruler is the planet that has the most essential and accidental dignities in the natal chart and is called the Lord of Geniture (literally, the lord of birth).

Gizmo, according to my calculations, Venus is your Lady of Geniture. Do you have a crazy sweet tooth?

I wrote an article about the different ideas of a chart ruler and the different things that could apply, if you're interested.

http://ryoin.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/the-ruler-of-them-all/

If not, then it's just decoration.

Thanks for the link and the calculation. That was an interesting read with the lord of the geniture and the lord of manners. Never heard about these.
That's interesting with Venus as my lady of geniture. Never thought about Venus as being especially strong in my chart. I wish I had very nice teeth, but unfortunately I don't really do. They could be a little whiter. But that might be due to some Saturn on AC influence there maybe? As I heard Saturn rules the bones and teeth, doesn't it?

[gimzo23]

Originally Posted by astrologer50

This may help explain the 'chart ruler' a little better for you.

http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/r...sinhouses.html

Thank you. That was indeed a good read. Very nicely and easily explained. It seems that there are indeed different acknowledged ways of viewing and determining the chart ruler then. For a beginner, I guess the easiest one is obviously the version with the ascendant ruler as the chart ruler.

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

That's interesting with Venus as my lady of geniture. Never thought about Venus as being especially strong in my chart. I wish I had very nice teeth, but unfortunately I don't really do. They could be a little whiter. But that might be due to some Saturn on AC influence there maybe? As I heard Saturn rules the bones and teeth, doesn't it?

Hehe. Read my previous post again. I asked if you had a sweet tooth, not if you had nice teeth or not. I'm only interested in if you have a hankering for sweets.

[waybread]

Kai and A50, thanks for the links.

Well, obviously the question is one of some controvery--so it each his/her own! Gimzo, I fear you'll have to figure this one out on your own, and report back to us!

Kai, I couldn't determine in my limited time for astrology, where the idea came from that the planetary ruler of the sign on the cusp of the first house was the chart ruler. The concept does appear in the works of Julius Firmus Maternicus, ca. 330 AD. He notes several systems in use in his day, and then basically concludes that the chart ruler rules the sign into which the moon first moves after leaving the natal house. But he exempts the moon and sun, such that if someone has the moon in Gemini, you skip Cancer and Leo, and give the next house to Virgo, making Mercury the chart ruler. His work is available through google books as Ancient Astrology, Theory and Practice, transl. Jean Rhys Bram.

Alan Leo, How to Judge a Nativity (1st publ. in 1903, I have his 1935 ed.) devotes a whole chapter to the topic. He basically says that the "ruling planet" is "either the lord of the ascending sign, or else that planet which is strongest or most prominent in the horoscope. No hard and fast rule can be given to indicate what this will be...."

A super book on house cusp rulers is by the noted Dutch astrologer, Karen Hamaker-zondag, The House Connection (first publ. 1986). She takes it as a given that "the main ruler" is the sign on the first house cusp. This definition is the one given in James R. Lewis, The Astrology Book: The Encyclopedia of Heavenly Influences (2003), and in the cafe astrology page in Astrologer 50's link.

So the idea of a chart ruler seems to be ancient, with the definition of the chart ruler still in play in the 20th century.

As to whether a particular definition is better or worse because of its antiquity or recent development, I will leave for individual members to decide!

[gimzo23]

Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi

Hehe. Read my previous post again. I asked if you had a sweet tooth, not if you had nice teeth or not. I'm only interested in if you have a hankering for sweets.

LOL@myself! Haha, I didn't have this in my English repertoire and thought you were talking about teeth....
Well, I wouldn't say I have a sweet tooth too much, but I like to eat black chocolate regularly. So yeah, a tiny little bit maybe. But not excessively.

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

The reason I asked was because Venus rules sweet things like cakes and candies and all of that. My Lord of Geniture is Jupiter, who rules the sour flavor, and I often keep sour candies with me and I just love sour things. I just thought it was a simple yet evident way of how the LoG permeates everything.

[gimzo23]

Originally Posted by waybread

Kai and A50, thanks for the links.

Well, obviously the question is one of some controvery--so it each his/her own! Gimzo, I fear you'll have to figure this one out on your own, and report back to us!

Kai, I couldn't determine in my limited time for astrology, where the idea came from that the planetary ruler of the sign on the cusp of the first house was the chart ruler. The concept does appear in the works of Julius Firmus Maternicus, ca. 330 AD. He notes several systems in use in his day, and then basically concludes that the chart ruler rules the sign into which the moon first moves after leaving the natal house. But he exempts the moon and sun, such that if someone has the moon in Gemini, you skip Cancer and Leo, and give the next house to Virgo, making Mercury the chart ruler. His work is available through google books as Ancient Astrology, Theory and Practice, transl. Jean Rhys Bram.

Alan Leo, How to Judge a Nativity (1st publ. in 1903, I have his 1935 ed.) devotes a whole chapter to the topic. He basically says that the "ruling planet" is "either the lord of the ascending sign, or else that planet which is strongest or most prominent in the horoscope. No hard and fast rule can be given to indicate what this will be...."

A super book on house cusp rulers is by the noted Dutch astrologer, Karen Hamaker-zondag, The House Connection (first publ. 1986). She takes it as a given that "the main ruler" is the sign on the first house cusp. This definition is the one given in James R. Lewis, The Astrology Book: The Encyclopedia of Heavenly Influences (2003), and in the cafe astrology page in Astrologer 50's link.

So the idea of a chart ruler seems to be ancient, with the definition of the chart ruler still in play in the 20th century.

As to whether a particular definition is better or worse because of its antiquity or recent development, I will leave for individual members to decide!

Thanks for this waybread. I think in my case I'll stick with the sun as my chart ruler for now. It's the easiest way I guess and my sun is already my final dispositor so I'm just loading it with the burden of being the chart ruler as well, haha. Even though I'll keep Kaiousei no Senshi's opinion with the Lord of Geniture in mind. This seems quite interesting as well, even though I'm not advanced enough to understand how it works.

[gimzo23]

Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi

The reason I asked was because Venus rules sweet things like cakes and candies and all of that. My Lord of Geniture is Jupiter, who rules the sour flavor, and I often keep sour candies with me and I just love sour things. I just thought it was a simple yet evident way of how the LoG permeates everything.

Ah I see. So with my Venus Lady of Geniture I think I'm lucky to live in a chocolate country then, hehe.