What do you all think about chiron and the magi societys claims?

[stinkypuffs]

By now im sure alot of you know about the magi society's claims about chiron and its involvement in true love. I was very skeptical about the magi society in general. I saw them back up their claims with examples. They did a good job. But as with anything else, you can make a claim first and provide examples afterwards that fit. I was going nuts looking into chiron aspects between me and my girl not knowing if this chiron thing is even for real. I finally decided to look at chiron aspects between my parents who have been happily married for 25 years and have been together since elementary skool. Sometimes i see them and i can tell their love is still fresh and exciting and that they would never be able to live without eachother. You know how many chiron "true love" aspects i found between them? none. zero. none.at.all. I looked for Chiron-neptune, chiron-jupiter, chiron'venus linkages starting first with my father's chiron and my mothers venus, neptune and jupiter ...and then my mothers chiron with my fathers venus, neptune, and jupiter. there were no conjunnctions, no trines, no quincunxes, not even sextiles.

Im interested to hear what the rest of you think about chiron and if you have analyzed charts for chiron aspects of any of your loved ones or family members who have been happily married for many years.

[Icplanets]

Perhaps you could provide us with your parent's birth dates so we all could have a look. Thanks

[stinkypuffs]

Sure. My Father was born April 13, 1962 and my mother was born on April 6, 1965. Both were born in Lima, Peru. I do not have their birth time information, but as you will see, it does not matter because there is nothing even close to being a chiron linkage.

However, take a look at their other interplanetary aspects. They have an incredible number of wonderful aspects, none of which involve chiron. Traditional astrology would say they have a wonderful relationship, and they do. Their inter-planetary aspects are almost all trines conjunctions and sextiles.

[Kaiousei no Senshi]

I'm skeptical of the Magi society as well. So, I understand where you're coming from.

[Kerrie]

I have a look at 4 couples - family members. These are the aspects I found. Not sure what they mean though.

Couple 1 (together 29 years);

Both
Chiron sex Chiron (orb 1)

Her
Chiron sex Sun (orb 3)
Chiron sex Jupiter (orb 8)
Chiron opp Pluto (orb 8)
Chiron con Jupiter (orb 8)

His
Chiron squ Sun (orb 0)
Chiron tri Asc (orb 3)

Couple 2 (together 4 years)

Her
Chiron squ Mercury (orb 0)
Chiron opp Saturn (orb 1)
Chiron squ Moon (orb 3)
Chiron con N Node (orb 7)

His
Chiron opp Jupiter (orb 3)
Chiron opp Uranus (orb 4)
Chiron tri Mercury (orb 4)

Couple 3 (together 4 years)

Both
Chiron 23 con Chiron 21 (orb 2)

Her


His
Chiron sex Moon (orb 2)
Chiron squ N Node (orb 2)
Chiron squ Mercury (orb 3)

Couple 4 (together less than a year)

Both
Chiron con Moon in Taurus in Natal Chart

Her
Chiron sex Sun (orb 4)

His
Chiron opp Uranus (orb 2)

[Kerrie]

My thoughts of the aspects that stand out;

Couple 1 - has a connection from having a Chiron/Chiron conjunction.

Couple 2 and 3 - have a Chiron conjunct North Node.

Couple 4 - has a Chiron conjunct Moon in their natal charts, learning the same lesson. Couple 4 is me and my partner, we have a lot of similar placements, this is one of them.

[AquariusT]

What about a semi-sextile in aqua and pisces? together 24 years

[Kerrie]

Im surpised too, there are no aspects (con, sex, tri, opp, squ) between your parents, seeing that I found a lot in the couples I looked at. I had a quick look at a synastry between my mother and myself and their was a heap too.

Have you checked aspects to the angles? Or even the house Chiron in placed in the partners chart?

Not sure about the semi-sextile, is this between both Chirons?

Im not an expert btw, I dont know anything about Magi, just looked at the birth data I had in front of me for you .

[stinkypuffs]

Thanks for the input.

Kerrie, The angles which matter to the magi society are enhancement angles and quincunxes which link chiron to Venus Neptune and jupiter. They call these "linkages." Aquarius, I doubt they put any wait behind semi-sextiles involving chiron, especially considering a semi-sextile is a mildly adverse angle. As to the houses.. the magi society doesnt put much weight behind houses, which i know has unsettled many students of astrology, including some on these forums judjing on what i saw in another thread. That discussion, and the society's beliefs on houses can be found here:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...t=magi+society

Also Kerry, some of those orbs you indicated are quite wide. I Personally believe that the influnce of the major aspects can be felt on some level so long as the orb is under 8. However most astrologers tend to only really look at aspects with an orb under 3, disregarding anything thats over. The magi society believes only aspects with an orb 3 or under have influence.

Having said that, the magi society claims that Chiron-jupiter and CHiron-neptune linkages are the lifetime linkages and that Chiron-venus also has a say in "true love." By their definition, none of the couples you listed have a "true love" linkage as defined by them, Kerry. But i wouldn't be one to question the love between these couples in your family. My parents have no "true love" aspects as defined by the magi society and i know they are incredibly happy together and will be for the rest of their lives.

[Kerrie]

Originally Posted by stinkypuffs

enhancement angles

Can you please explain enhancement angles?

[stinkypuffs]

Originally Posted by Kerrie

Can you please explain enhancement angles?

Enhancement: A circumstance where 2 planets are in conjunction, trine, parallel, or contra-parallel to each other, thereby creating an aspect that Magi Astrology considers to be an enhancement or mutual improvement.

http://www.jupitersweb.com/magi_astrology_glossary.htm

[Kerrie]

Well this has all gone above my head! I will leave this ti more experienced astrologers.

[Icplanets]

Dear Stinkypuffs

The synastry between your parents is absolutely consistent and conforming with what the Magi Society claims about Chiron. In fact, it is spot on the money. The Magi Society claims that 90% of married couples have a Romantic Super Linkage. Your parents have a Romantic Super Linkage.

To refresh your memory the here is the definition of a Romantic Super Linkage:

A three or more planet interaspect within a CAC in which every planet is in equal degree aspect with the others. Each chart must contribute at least one planet to the Romantic Super Linkage, and most importantly Chiron must form either an enhancement aspect or a linkage with one of the other planets in the Super Romantic Linkage. Juno, Ceres, Pallas and Vesta and other asteroids cannot be used to create a Romantic Super Linkage. Nor can each chart contribute the same planet. All of the three or more planets must be different.

Using a Noon chart for Lima, Peru for both charts, your Fathers Chiron at 9.2 degrees of Pisces is conjunct your Mother’s Saturn at 12.2 degrees of Pisces. So that conjunction satisfies the requirement that Chiron be in an enhancement aspect. In addition, your Mother’s Mars and Uranus respectively at 9.8R and 11.5R of Virgo oppose your Father’s Chiron and her own Saturn. With 3 or more planets all in aspect to one and other, then you have now have satisfied all the requirements for a Romantic Super Linkage.

I looked for Chiron-neptune, chiron-jupiter, chiron'venus linkages starting first with my father's chiron and my mothers venus, neptune and jupiter ...and then my mothers chiron with my fathers venus, neptune, and jupiter. there were no conjunnctions, no trines, no quincunxes, not even sextiles.

First, the Magi Society has never claimed that any of the above enhancement interaspects “have” to be present in synastry to indicate successful marriage between two people nor do they “have” to be present in synastry to indicate long term happiness or fulfillment or romantic attraction within a marriage. You seem to infer with your post that the Magi Society is claiming something here that they never claimed.

Second, The Magi Society has talked about the potency of the Jupiter/Chiron midpoint and that when it forms enhancement/linkage aspects with Venus, Jupiter, Chiron, Neptune, Pluto and the Sun it is the equivalent of a Cinderella Aspect/linkage. In your parents chart your Father’s Sun is exactly conjunct your Mother’s Jupiter/Chiron midpoint with both at 23.3 degrees of Aries. In addition, your Mother’s Sun in declinations is at 6.6 degrees of Northern declination. Your Father’s Jupiter/Chiron is at 7.0 degrees of Southern declination and this also is equivalent to a Cinderella Linkage. And, if you care to look at the heliocentric realm you’ll see that your Mother’s Jupiter/Chiron midpoint is parallel your Father’s Neptune and Trine/Sextile your Fathers Jupiter. Therefore, based on those close orbed Jupiter/Chiron midpoint linkages your parents do indeed have plenty of Cinderella Linkage energy between them.

Third, your parents have two Venus-Neptune enhancements, contra-parallel and quincunx. In Magi Astrology Venus-Neptune linkages are the very best non-Chiron linkages for romance. They indicate long lasting harmony, serenity, and romantic attraction. They even offer enhancement to your sex life. Those two linkages in and of themselves can account for a good portion of the love and affection you describe your parents as possessing.

Conclusion: the claims of the Magi Society are verified with your example.

Cheers,
Kevin

[Icplanets]

Points of clarification…..

Aquarius, I doubt they put any wait behind semi-sextiles involving chiron, especially considering a semi-sextile is a mildly adverse angle.

The Magi Society does put weight behind semi-sextiles involving Chiron when they are a part of 3 or more planet alignment and that alignment has at least one enhancement angle. Furthermore, in Magi Astrology a semi-sextile is considered to be a mildly beneficial aspect.

Having said that, the magi society claims that Chiron-Jupiter and CHiron-neptune linkages are the lifetime linkages and that Chiron-Venus also has a say in "true love."

The Chiron-Jupiter linkage is NOT a lifetime linkage. Chiron-Neptune is a lifetime linkage; however it is the least romantic of the Romantic Linkages and signifies more of a long term partnership or long term friendship unless there are other romantic and sexual linkages in the CAC.

[stinkypuffs]

Icplanets.. i have my fathers chiron at 8.51 and my mothers saturn at 12.15. I know it seems ridiculous for me to nit-pick this considering the closenes and that i did not provide a birth time, but i cant help my skepticism towards the magi society. If chiron is that far from my mothers saturn, there is no romantic super-linkage. Also, even if it were a romantic superlinkage which it very well could be, wouldnt this be a comparatively weak one considering that saturn is involved (binds but adds disupute) and that the other aspects are clashes as opposed to linkages? (I really am seeking your knowledge here)

that aside though, what you've put forth is very insightful to the way the magi society thinks and i thank you for contributing to my thread and correcting my misjudjements about the magi society's thinking.

Also can you confirm that the magi society at least believes that chiron-jupiter chiron-neptune and chiron-venus aspects are among the top aspects involving chiron and therefore, true love?

Now truth be told, i didnt know that the magi society put such weight on jupiter-chiron midpoint aspects with venus, jupiter, chiron, neptune, pluto and the sun. You truly did a great job at pointing out the aspects between my parents and you seem to be very skillful. Ironically though, these assertion only fuels my skepticism towards the magi sociiety's claims about aspects involving chiron which contribute to love. It seems to me that there are so many possible aspects involving chiron that its almost like it would be pretty difficult to find synastry charts between two people that DONT have such aspects. You see what im saying? It can be a conjunction, trine, parallel, contraparallel, or quinqunx to jupiter neptune or venus... It can be a conjunction, trine, parallel, contraparallel, or quincunx between the jupter/sun midpoint and Venus, jupiter, chiron, neptune, pluto, or the sun.. OR you can link chiron to any non-asteroid in the other person's chart and as long as that planet forms an aspect OR linkage to another planet in the same persons chart then you can call it a romantic super linkage. THEN look for all of the above going the other way! (i know this is done in traditional astrology as well, but im trying to point out the high probability of finding such aspects between two people).

And to to top it off:

Originally Posted by Icplanets

Third, your parents have two Venus-Neptune enhancements, contra-parallel and quincunx. In Magi Astrology Venus-Neptune linkages are the very best non-Chiron linkages for romance. They indicate long lasting harmony, serenity, and romantic attraction. They even offer enhancement to your sex life. Those two linkages in and of themselves can account for a good portion of the love and affection you describe your parents as possessing.

Conclusion: the claims of the Magi Society are verified with your example.

Cheers,
Kevin

So just the Neptune-venus aspects would have been enough? how hard is it really to "prove" that two people can have a loving relationship in magi astrology? if those linkages "in and of themselves can account for a good portion of the love" between my parents. I am familiar with the venus-neptune aspects being very good in a relationship and its one of the few points in which i absolutely agree with the magi society, but with the magi society putting so many other possible aspects for real love into the equation, i imagine they'd be hard-pressed to find ANY celebrity couple for whom they could not prove a decent marriage for the way they are doing on that site of theirs. And yes i know they're also putting forth charts on heartbreak aspects between couples who've had high profile divorces and what not. Im probably wont investigate because i have spent alot of time investigating the validity of the magi society's claims already and i havent yet found the right footing to believe them. Icplanets..we simply disagree about the magi society. =) Feel free to contribute more of your insights, but to be real with you and with myself... im obviously prejudiced, lol.

glancing at the chart between my girl and i, i found a romantic super linkage as well as a jupiter/chiron midpoint aspect and i only looked at the longitudinal aspects...i didnt look into declinations or anything latitudinal.

[deleted attacking post - Moderator]

Ill open my mind again down the road i think, but not until multiple groups of independent astrologers investigate MS claims.

[Icplanets]

Hello Stinkypuffs,

Icplanets.. i have my fathers chiron at 8.51 and my mothers saturn at 12.15. I know it seems ridiculous for me to nit-pick this considering the closenes and that i did not provide a birth time, but i cant help my skepticism towards the magi society. If chiron is that far from my mothers saturn, there is no romantic super-linkage.

No, you are incorrect. As long as the conjunction is less than 4 degree in orb (which is an allowable expansion for one, and only one leg of the RSL), which we are in agreement it is, than it is a Romantic Super Linkage. Oh and BTW, they have another RSL in Heliocentric with your Father’s Chiron conjunct your Mother’s Saturn and they are both opposed your Father’s Pluto.

Also, even if it were a romantic superlinkage which it very well could be, wouldnt this be a comparatively weak one considering that saturn is involved (binds but adds disupute) and that the other aspects are clashes as opposed to linkages? (I really am seeking your knowledge here

)
You posted that you wanted input as to the Magi Society‘s claims about Chiron. The Magi Society never claimed that a Romantic Super Linkage that lacked romance planets other than Chiron was any less valid than one that did.

that aside though, what you've put forth is very insightful to the way the magi society thinks and i thank you for contributing to my thread and correcting my misjudjements about the magi society's thinking.

You’re welcome

Also can you confirm that the magi society at least believes that chiron-jupiter chiron-neptune and chiron-venus aspects are among the top aspects involving chiron and therefore, true love

?
Venus-Chiron enhancement linkage is the single most powerful and helpful enhancement linkage between two people and it stands alone in this regard.

Now truth be told, i didnt know that the magi society put such weight on jupiter-chiron midpoint aspects with venus, jupiter, chiron, neptune, pluto and the sun

.
Now you do.

You truly did a great job at pointing out the aspects between my parents and you seem to be very skillful. Ironically though, these assertion only fuels my skepticism towards the magi sociiety's claims about aspects involving chiron which contribute to love. It seems to me that there are so many possible aspects involving chiron that its almost like it would be pretty difficult to find synastry charts between two people that DONT have such aspects. You see what im saying?

Which is why if you study Magi Astrology, then you will find that within the methodology there are several ways of establishing a hierarchy and pointing you to the planetary alignments that carry the most weight. For instance, one way of establishing hierarchy (which while endorsed by Magi Astrology is not exclusive to it) is orb. Look at the orb of those various Jupiter/Chiron enhancements in your parents CACs.

[QUOTE]It can be a conjunction, trine, parallel, contraparallel, or quinqunx to jupiter neptune or venus... It can be a conjunction, trine, parallel, contraparallel, or quincunx between the jupter/sun midpoint and Venus, jupiter, chiron, neptune, pluto, or the sun.. OR you can link chiron to any non-asteroid in the other person's chart and as long as that planet forms an aspect OR linkage to another planet in the same persons chart then you can call it a romantic super linkage[/quote].

Once again let’s be clear on what is and is not claimed by the Magi Society. A couple is highly unlikely to marry, not impossible, but highly unlikely to marry if they do not have a Romantic Super Linkage. The Magi have said nothing even close to alluding to anything about it keeping you married, or that it makes you happily married etc…

THEN look for all of the above going the other way! (i know this is done in traditional astrology as well, but im trying to point out the high probability of finding such aspects between two people).

If your point is that it takes more than just Chiron aspects to create a successful marriage than there is no disagreement. Magi Astrology theory would very much be in agreement on that point. If your point is that Cinderella Linkages are so prevalent that they lack substance, I would say you are mistaken, largely because the symbolism of Chiron and the other planets within the linkage have multiple valid interpretations. Astrology is contextual. For example, if you and your spouse have a Chiron-Pluto linkage within the valid range of the symbolism, in large part because Pluto is also a sexual planet, would be noteworthy (Chiron) intercourse (Pluto). However, that symbolism would be completely inappropriate if you had the same linkage with your Grandmother. In that instance the symbolism could reflect powerful (Pluto) family ties (Chiron).

Originally Posted by Icplanets
Venus-Neptune linkages are the very best non-Chiron linkages for romance. They indicate long lasting harmony, serenity, and romantic attraction. They even offer enhancement to your sex life. Those two linkages in and of themselves can account for a good portion of the love and affection you describe your parents as possessing

.

So just the Neptune-venus aspects would have been enough?

No, I never said they would be enough. I said they would account for a good portion; a part, not the whole, not a small part.

how hard is it really to "prove" that two people can have a loving relationship in magi astrology? if those linkages "in and of themselves can account for a good portion of the love" between my parents. I am familiar with the venus-neptune aspects being very good in a relationship and its one of the few points in which i absolutely agree with the magi society, but with the magi society putting so many other possible aspects for real love into the equation, i imagine they'd be hard-pressed to find ANY celebrity couple for whom they could not prove a decent marriage for the way they are doing on that site of theirs. And yes i know they're also putting forth charts on heartbreak aspects between couples who've had high profile divorces and what not

.

The short answer is…I’ll guarantee that anytime you have a relationship between two individuals that involves intimacy in the realms of the emotional, spiritual, intellectual and physical, then it’s going to be complicated. And if you are looking for a very simplistic astrological methodology, then I suggest you run far away from Magi Astrology


[deleted response to attacking post - Moderator]

[flea]

I tend to thinking that the synastry aspects that draw people together are as individual as the people themselves.....The story is very particular to the people involved.

Chiron can provoke some extremely strong connections between people. My tendency is towards a collective healing event during their lives, that cannot be accomplished separately or individually.

I have very strong chiron/venus/NN coonections between my mother, and my mother and her mother. There is a lot of stuff going on.

Relationships have tended to have SN/NN/sun coonections as well as tight juno/venus/mars conjunctions. I also have a sensitive spot in Taurus that always gets hit in relationships.

Any rule where one size fits all.... well I find that difficult to buy into. For me life is just not that easy.....no silver bullets. The play between complexity and simplicity is awesome.

The stories which the astrology charts tell, are amazingly complex. I think it would make a mockery of the whole chart if just a couple of points held the mystery of relationships.

FleaXXX

[wilsontc]

all,

This has happened before and it is happening again. People are turning a discussion on Magi astrology into an attack on Magi astrology. If you are curious about how Magi astrology works and you want to start a discussion about it, that's fine. If all you want to do is to tear down Magi astrology and insult people who attempt to answer Magi astrology questions that is NOT fine. Please behave yourself and have an astrological discussion about Magi astrology WITHOUT insulting people who attempt to answer your questions.

Moderately,

Tim

[Moulin]

Hi IC, how are you?

Can you tell me please if any of these are a RSL?

geo
his jupiter 4'31 sag
her chiron 1'22 aries
(his chiron 7'23 aries)
her sun 5'59 taurus

decl
his chiron 5' 0'17 N
her venus 6'54'23 N
her saturn 4'58'57 N

her chiron 3'32'37 N
his uranus 4'33'18 S
her saturn 4'58'57 N

helio
her chiron 29'37 pisces
his neptune 1' 7 sag
his pluto 28'9 virgo
her venus 0'26 aries
her mars 1' 16 gemini

decl
his chiron 5'52'2 N
her saturn 4'3'9 N
her chiron 2'58'51 N
her venus 2'50'42 N
his uranus 3'41'56 S

Thanks

[Icplanets]

Hi Moulin,

Hi IC, how are you?

I’m terrific. Life is good. I'm blessed. And you?

Can you tell me please if any of these are a RSL?
Romantic Super Linkages
geo
his jupiter 4'31 sag
her chiron 1'22 aries
(his chiron 7'23 aries)
her sun 5'59 taurus

Nope, Sun exceeds the orb with her Chiron and you can’t have two of the same planets in the RSL, therefore you cannot have two Chirons. If you throw out her Chiron, it won’t work either because her Sun does not form and enhancement linkage with his Chiron.

decl
his chiron 5' 0'17 N
her venus 6'54'23 N
her saturn 4'58'57 N

Nope, Chiron and Venus are out of orb. Standard declination orb would be 1.2 degrees (1’12’). You can expand the orb up to 1.6 (1’36’) for one aspect.

her chiron 3'32'37 N
his uranus 4'33'18 S
her saturn 4'58'57 N

Yep

helio
her chiron 29'37 pisces
his neptune 1' 7 sag
his pluto 28'9 virgo
her venus 0'26 aries
her mars 1' 16 gemini

Yep

decl
his chiron 5'52'2 N
her saturn 4'3'9 N
her chiron 2'58'51 N
her venus 2'50'42 N
his uranus 3'41'56 S

Throw out his Chiron and it works.

Thanks

You are quite welcome.

[Moulin]

Hi!

I'm great thanks IC
Finally l have my PC fixed so l can use my Magi Software again! So relieved - was lost without it!

Glad all is good with you too.

I don't understand that, if l don't have a super sexual aspect in my natal geo/helio charts WHY am l dating 2 guys who BOTH have super sexual aspects and just look at the aspects l have with them! I'm gobsmacked... dear me.
I used geo/helio and ALL within the allowed degrees!

Guy 1 has natal pluto quincunx juno
His Pluto opp my venus
His Pluto trine my mars

His mars conjunct my juno
His juno square my venus
His juno parallel my venus
His juno parallel my chiron
His juno square my chiron

His Pluto opp my chiron
His Neptune trine my venus
His Neptune trine my chiron
His Neptune trine chiron
His Pluto opp chiron
His chiron parallel my venus
His chiron parallel my Saturn
His uranus contra my chiron


Guy 2 has natal mars square juno
His venus parallel my Pluto
His venus parallel my mars
His Pluto opp my venus
His Pluto trine my mars

His juno trine my venus
His juno square my mars
His venus square my juno

His chiron parallel my venus
His Pluto opp my chiron
His venus trine my Neptune
His Neptune trine my venus
His venus trine my chiron
His Neptune trine my chiron


LOL!!!
I was doing our CAC's to try to decide which one was the better guy and l was seriously shocked by both. Insane, isn't it!!

Happy week to you Moulin

[imo]

I was wondering if you have heard of the 'fallen angel' aspect. an astrologer from magic society mentioned it once. Basically it has to do with aspects involving Jupiter and Saturn. When Jupiter has sextiles with some planets, Saturn has quincunxes with the same planets and Jupiter as well! I find this quite interesting! I don't know the exact interpretation though! If someone knows sth more on this, it would be great to share it with us!

[isabelleroger]

Basically, you talk about a Yod including Saturn (apex planet) quincunx Jupiter sextile another planet let's say Neptune (I know someone with that one), and this Neptune sextile Jupiter.

I didn't know that name is Fallen Angel at Magi astrology, thanks

[imo]

no prob! maybe there is a connection between what Jupiter and Saturn represent (quite the opposite!) ! That's what I thought, that it is a Yod, but the declinations for this aspect is 1.2 degrees in geocentric and
0.3 degrees for heliocentric latitudes. Does ur friend have it? how would you interpret it?! thanks a lot!! I'm just asking out of curiosity, a friend of mine also has it and I have no freaking idea what it means, especially when it involves many planets!

[isabelleroger]

I don't know yet what it means, but as soon as I find out, I will email it here. Thanks to do the same.

I have read at least this from someone who is a magi astrolger:

"We also believe that we can change our lives with good timing. Even if you have a Fallen Angel aspect, good timing can help you better your life."

Take care
Isabelle