grandkids with Pisces rising

[R4VEN]

Ok, I'd often thought this a bit weird, but am not able to put my finger on its significance.

My parents (both now dead) had 11 grandchildren, and of those 11 people, 6 have Pisces Rising, and another 2 have moon in Pisces - although that latter information is possibly irrelevant, but I just thought I'd throw it in anyway! 5 of the 6 with Pisces rising are from 2 families. i.e. one of my brothers has 3 kids, all with Pisces rising, and another brother had 2 children from his first marriage, both of whom have Pisces rising.

My question re this is what does it mean for the next generation of our family?

Of the 6 with Pisces R, perhaps only 2 - the 2 females, all the rest are male - appear to be expressing their rising sign in any kind of conscious way; i.e. with accessing compassion and a universal view to what they do in their lives. The 4 boys (now all men) have all been touched by excesses, such as alcohol and drug use, and the younger ones are still in that space.
Now, I'm aware that there are a myriad of other factors at play in all the grandchildren's charts & lives, so to pick up on one feature can be risky.

My take on it (and this is a very subjective view of things) is that my parents (the grandparents of these people) were quite deeply - but perhaps not very consciously - traumatised by their lives and life experiences. Both my parents never seemed to have progressed beyond fear of the next world war or economic depression, and they acted this out in fearful and limiting behaviour towards their children. Quite severe and protracted physical abuse was common, almost everyday in our upbringing.
Do the next generation bring the potential for a more gentle approach to their own lives and the lives of the children they have?

[EJ53]

.....Both my parents....acted this out in fearful and limiting behaviour towards their children. Quite severe and protracted physical abuse was common, almost everyday in our upbringing..........Do the next generation bring the potential for a more gentle approach to their own lives and the lives of the children they have?

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Hi R4VEN,

Working from the psychological premise that "the abused tend to become abusers themselves", let's assume (say) the brother with 3 Pisces Rising children might have been "conditioned" to raise his offspring in the way the he himself was raised.

Then, let's assume that a Pisces Ascendant colours both how our behaviour is seen by others and how their behaviour is seen by us. So, we are seen as soft/gentle and view with compassion those who treat us badly.

Now, faced with such a child, the father might be less inclined to raise them harshly and, faced with such a father, the child is less likely to see harsh treatment as "normal". Thus, either way, the child is unlikely to continue the cycle of physical abuse with his/her own children - as you conclude.

However, it's also interesting that the Pisces Rising girls display the positive qualities of that sign whilst the boys have resorted to escapism - indicating that gender is a factor here. Perhaps the father would instinctively discipline daughters less harshly than sons, making it easier for the girls to develop compassion for him and necessary for the boys to "disassociate" from what (to Pisces) would be seen as unfair treatment.

As you say though, we can only speculate upon how Pisces might be at work here.

EJ

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by EJ53

__________________


Hi R4VEN,

Working from the psychological premise that "the abused tend to become abusers themselves", let's assume (say) the brother with 3 Pisces Rising children might have been "conditioned" to raise his offspring in the way the he himself was raised.


Now, faced with such a child, the father might be less inclined to raise them harshly and, faced with such a father, the child is less likely to see harsh treatment as "normal". Thus, either way, the child is unlikely to continue the cycle of physical abuse with his/her own children - as you conclude.

EJ

Interesting observation, EJ.

Something I hadn't seen as significant, and yet may be very important, given what you say, is that of the 6, only one has so far had their own children - and the 6 grandchildren in question are aged 23-40. The two eldest, a brother and sister aged 40 and 39, both married, have both made conscious choices to not have children! One of the other four, a woman of 29, has been trying to have children for 5 years without success.

I feel that my brothers - fathers of these grandchildren - were quite OK as fathers, but in my observation of the heredity of family trauma, it can be the 2nd generation removed from the original trauma who act it out, or act in response to it. I have been the only one of my siblings and I who has identified this trauma, and felt it strongly in my body, and my two sons (both with moon in Pisces) have expressed it in their lives in varying ways.

[EJ53]

Originally Posted by R4VEN

......of the 6, only one has so far had their own children..... it can be the 2nd generation removed from the original trauma who act it out, or act in response to it.

Ok - so your parent's fear of living in the world results in the granchildren deciding consciously/unconsciously not to bring a child into the world. But, is that because the children picked the message up from the grandparents; the parents or both? Perhaps the grandparents message needed to be re-inforced by the parents to get through to the grandchildren. Then, not having children might be Pisces (negative) way of ending the family cycle of abuse.

I have been the only one of my siblings and I who has identified this trauma...

Or........you are the only one whose subconscious is no longer suppressing the painful memories of it.


EJ

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by EJ53

Ok - so your parent's fear of living in the world results in the granchildren deciding consciously/unconsciously not to bring a child into the world. But, is that because the children picked the message up from the grandparents; the parents or both? Perhaps the grandparents message needed to be re-inforced by the parents to get through to the grandchildren.

I've seen `messages/knowledge' get through to those of a newer generation without any real message-giving. With all the (hours & hours & hours) I've spent on the whole wound-healing thing, my conclusion is that the truth/messages/beliefs can be passed on from one in utero experience to another without there being any kind of conscious acknowledgement on the part of the participants. Trauma/wounds seem to be held in places like deep within the body - joints, cells - and/or in the energy field. Those who are sensitive to this (such as myself) have been like the message-bringers. In my own experience, also, only a few enlightened family members are interested in what I know!!

[EJ53]

Originally Posted by R4VEN

I've seen `messages/knowledge' get through to those of a newer generation without any real message-giving.

My son was very influenced by what was taking place whilst he was in the womb - but are you referring to something else?


EJ

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by EJ53

My son was very influenced by what was taking place whilst he was in the womb - but are you referring to something else?EJ

That certainly happens. eg. troubles in the parents' relationship, an accident or a shock of some kind to the mother. For instance, a woman I know who was publically humiliated and chucked out of her `cult' whilst pregnant with her son, believes that his erratic, and often uncontrollable behaviour from early childhood to early 20's was his reaction to her experience. Astrologically this young man has Uranus conj Asc in the 12th, which I have found in the charts of those who had shocks or dramatic events whilst in utero.

But what I'm learning is how it's possible to pass on from mother's unconscious belief system and/or memory bank to the child so that the child then acts like these things happened to them in their life. The child may create experiences similar to that which happened to the mother - and at the same age - perhaps (but not sure about this, just surmising) for the express purpose of acting-out, then processing and so removing from the family's line of heredity.
This is what happened to me in utero. Not only did I `pick up' my mother's unresolved wounds, but also my grandmother's. I believe my mother acted from these wounds, but was completely unconscious that she carried them.

There's an Australian former pop star who is a Viet Nam vet. He now says that he witnessed things in Viet Nam he'll never talk about. His daughter, born after he came home from Viet Nam became a heroin addict - now recovered, I believe. He has also said that drug addiction is common in the children of war veterans. Perhaps extreme self-destructive behaviour in the children (and sometimes grandchildren - in the case of, say, vets of WW2) is an acting out of the buried trauma of the parents (and grandparents).

[Claire19]

I am sorry to hear about the abuse. That belongs to other influences is my belief. I cant imagine why parents would daily abuse their children. In this day and age they would not get away with it. Of course with Neptune ruling the chart there could be alcohol involved or other substance abuse.

I have Pisces rising and a Piscean sister. It is possible that my father also has Pisces rising but I am not sure. My Neptune is not badly aspected except for the conjunction with Mars which tends to accidents in childhood and especially with the head. It gave me freckles which I hate and muscular limbs which I also hate. Apparently it gives charisma as well and I am very sexual.

Everyone's scenario is different and I have a strong interest in esoteric matters as Neptune resides in the 8th conjunct Venus and Mars in Libra.
I attracted addicts and those needing rescue until I realised this and was getting nothing in return so I was able to refrain from all this.

We cant generalise about these things as the aspects from the Chart ruler and where they are tell the accurate story. Everyone is different although it is interesting to see the family patterns which I investigate a lot.
I have overwhelming Gemini influence all down the line for instance.

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by Claire19

I am sorry to hear about the abuse. That belongs to other influences is my belief. I cant imagine why parents would daily abuse their children. In this day and age they would not get away with it. Of course with Neptune ruling the chart there could be alcohol involved or other substance abuse.

I don't want to dwell on the abuse, as that is not the point of this thread, but I was brought up in the 1950's and every kid I knew was abused by their parents, as all kids' parents buried their own traumas deep in their bodies, and so this came out when they were `parenting' - usually in some kind of harsh discipline. At the time I knew no different. My parents were tea-totallers and attended church every week, but they were flawed, and probably damaged by their own parents.

It's the 2nd generation removed who have a number of members with Neptune-ruled charts, and my suggestion is (because of many families I have observed) that those with Neptune-ruled charts in this 2nd generation perhaps have the opportunity for expressing the wound in some way - alcohol, drugs, or other addictions - or transcending it.