Significiance of Midpoints??

[R4VEN]

OK, this is a real newbie question....................

I have never been astrologically educated in the significance of midpoints, and am now on that path in my own self-education. I've read a bit about them on the net and am now totally confused. When I experience confusion, I go back to my own chart, and work forwards from that point.

I've calculated some midpoints from my own natal chart, and an interesting thing emerges............... The following are some of the midpoints which made me sit up and take notice..............

• Sun/Moon - 27 deg 31 Cancer
• Venus/Pluto - 22 deg 16 Cancer
• Sat/Ura - 27 deg 56 Cancer

and these points all form a cluster around my DC - 26 deg 16 Cancer.

As I read it, the MP of Sun/Moon would be totally incompatible with the MP of Sat/Ur - the first requires a kind of submission, a melding, whilst the other looks for freedom and separation....... and yet these two points are at the same degree, and only 15-16 minutes separate them!

My relationship history has been nothing short of d-i-s-a-s-t-e-r!! I pick people who either want more from me than I'm prepared to deliver, or else (the most common for me) I attract people who are aloof and unavailable to me in some way. Most have been emotionally abusive, but in subtle ways. As a result I've been single for well over 20 years; when I left my marriage it was like removing a very heavy and mouldy coat from my back. For me, being single is the only state of living which appears to suit me.

Now, despite what it appears I may have said in that last paragraph, I am not looking for relationship advice!!!

I am looking to understand the significance of midpoints.
Are they only activated in transit, or do they have the kind of position and power of the planetary positions? It's just that whenever anything at all crosses my DC - even the transiting moon - it's like a car crash. The tr moon crossed this point at about 8:30 pm last Sunday evening and something quite awful occurred, totally unexpectedly, and this `event' is having repercussions still..

PS: I'd always believed that my natal Ur & Sat formed a YOD with my ASC - even tho Sat & Ur are not actually in sextile, being over 4 deg in orb. Looking at this midpoint issue, the mass of midpoints - all in opp to my ASC - would give the feel of the DC being a YOD release point. That's my take on it. I do have a real intensity around my DC & Asc which affects me in much the same way as a YOD.

I'll attach my natal chart below.

[cassanra]

I think your observations are a good starting point. Tracking contacts to those mid-points will help you come to a better understanding of how they operate.

[astrologer50]

Think more importantly those sun/moon uranus/saturn midpoints are within 3' of your mercury, giving them an outlet so to speak.

The most important midpoint is sun/moon and Asc/mc only if you know time of birth. They do resonate with transits and progressions.

Look natally if your software permits are trees or natal planets conj midpoints.... I have my chart ruler Uranus conj sun/moon midpoint and feel more Aquarian than i do my sun sign taurus. Plus chart ruler is opposite Asc conj 7th house cusp, inside 7th (the divorce planet, no less)

Which i notice you also have Venus conj Uranus in 6th house
Having 4planets in 7th house suggests major transformation with one to one relationships, including Pluto. Prob like me attracted to strong plutoian people. Also Saturn in 7th (Equal house) could delay matters til maturity, whenever that may be, may explain why you have been on your own for 20 years.....

Neptune conj MC suggests gullibility or confusion, maybe attracting wrong types or giving the wrong impressions to people. You may not even be aware you do this...

Your chart lacks earth element. plenty fire and air, even fire planets in air house of libra.... 3planets in 6th house of Virgo may help. Actually, lack of planets in earth is supposed to be a sign of a moneymaker....

Problem with Saturn/Uranus is Freedom v convention. Will you do something structured in unusual way, or vice versa. These two planets really dont get along at all, but if Mercury is conj you may get 'flashes' of genius, inspiration (uranus) but are you able to make things practical and put hard work into them? Mercury/saturn is great for studying, but uranus wants to play and disrupt things.... So all sorts of different interpretations there

Jupiter in Sag in 11th house of friendships, suggests you expand and grow through philosophies, travel, broadening the mind, law, politics, religion and group activities, large organisations etc.
Only one opposition to uranus in 6th suggests sometimes you may cut your nose off to spite your face, or expand too quickly

Think you may be reading a little bit too much into midpoints, there are lots of other things that suggests what you are describing natally.

Originally Posted by astrologer50

Actually, lack of planets in earth is supposed to be a sign of a moneymaker....

Really? I never heard this...

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by astrologer50

Think more importantly those sun/moon uranus/saturn midpoints are within 3' of your mercury, giving them an outlet so to speak.

The most important midpoint is sun/moon and Asc/mc only if you know time of birth. They do resonate with transits and progressions.

My birth time is accurate to 2 mins, so can safely calculate Asc/MH midpoint as 5 deg 13 in Sag.

Originally Posted by astrologer50

Your chart lacks earth element. plenty fire and air, even fire planets in air house of libra.... 3planets in 6th house of Virgo may help. Actually, lack of planets in earth is supposed to be a sign of a moneymaker....

Hah! I have been eminently capable of making money , but always give it away to some man or other (there are clear indications in early family history which have led to this. Am still working on this.

Originally Posted by astrologer50

Think you may be reading a little bit too much into midpoints, there are lots of other things that suggests what you are describing natally.

Thanks for that, astrologer50. Have never been particularly attracted to midpoints, but was investigating them, as my life has been so difficult, and at 60, it still is, despite all those `promises' that those with Cap Rising find that they mellow with age (which I have) and that life eases up for them (which it hasn't, although my attitude towards the struggles and difficulties has matured. I'm very good at waiting out the storm.)

Thanks again for your help.

I really enjoy learning about midpoints! I calculate the progressed and solar arc midpoints too. It is interesting to see if a natal planet falls on one of those midpoints and vice versa. I look at the transits and then see what other indicators there are to back up the transits. It's still a wait-and-see process for me, but fascinating and fun!

[waybread]

r4ven, I note that you have a lot of planets semi-close to your DC, in your 6th and 7th houses, increasing the likelihood that your DC (and by inference, your AC) will be involved.

With midpoints, I would use a really narrow orb--like a degree maybe. So I would see your Venus/Pluto as a bit wide. The sun/moon midpoint is especially significant because it indicates where and how you can most likely synthesize your will and identity (sun) with your subconscious and what you need (moon) to actualize your sun. A midpoint falling on a planet or sensitive point should say a lot about the "third party" that you need to actualize your planetary pair.

Re: relationship woes. Cancer is the sign on your DC. It is ruled by your moon, which squares both Neptune (illusion/disillusionment) and Mars (the kind of man to whom you are attracted. I think this says a lot, merely amplified by midpoints.

As you probably know, the DC can be a lot more than one's spouse or SO. Hopefully not your "open enemies." More happily, perhaps someone like a tennis partner, a truly best friend, or any good one-on-one relationship.

[R4VEN]

Originally Posted by waybread

r4ven, I note that you have a lot of planets semi-close to your DC, in your 6th and 7th houses, increasing the likelihood that your DC (and by inference, your AC) will be involved.

With midpoints, I would use a really narrow orb--like a degree maybe. So I would see your Venus/Pluto as a bit wide. The sun/moon midpoint is especially significant because it indicates where and how you can most likely synthesize your will and identity (sun) with your subconscious and what you need (moon) to actualize your sun. A midpoint falling on a planet or sensitive point should say a lot about the "third party" that you need to actualize your planetary pair.

Re: relationship woes. Cancer is the sign on your DC. It is ruled by your moon, which squares both Neptune (illusion/disillusionment) and Mars (the kind of man to whom you are attracted. I think this says a lot, merely amplified by midpoints.

As you probably know, the DC can be a lot more than one's spouse or SO. Hopefully not your "open enemies." More happily, perhaps someone like a tennis partner, a truly best friend, or any good one-on-one relationship.

Thankyou, waybread - them's wise words indeed!!!

I've often thought my Cancer moon square to Mars conj Neptune has left me open to being attracted to those who use (and abuse) my good nature and my trust. Oh, the people who have lied to me and I've believed every word, thinking: "why would someone say that if they didn't mean it?" I've been such a sensitive walkover, particularly in the first 40 years of my life. My kids used to say, "Mum, you're so gullible!", usually in relation to them having lied to me, and I'd believed them!

Oh, and I'm currently in the middle of a Chiron square, so all my `old' wounds are being reactivated.

[waybread]

Sorry you're going through a rough patch, R4ven. Don't know what to suggest about the granfather, but transits, at least, eventually pass.

Best wishes 4 your journey, W.

[rogue_red]

Originally Posted by waybread

r4ven, I note that you have a lot of planets semi-close to your DC, in your 6th and 7th houses, increasing the likelihood that your DC (and by inference, your AC) will be involved.

With midpoints, I would use a really narrow orb--like a degree maybe. So I would see your Venus/Pluto as a bit wide. The sun/moon midpoint is especially significant because it indicates where and how you can most likely synthesize your will and identity (sun) with your subconscious and what you need (moon) to actualize your sun. A midpoint falling on a planet or sensitive point should say a lot about the "third party" that you need to actualize your planetary pair.

Re: relationship woes. Cancer is the sign on your DC. It is ruled by your moon, which squares both Neptune (illusion/disillusionment) and Mars (the kind of man to whom you are attracted. I think this says a lot, merely amplified by midpoints.

As you probably know, the DC can be a lot more than one's spouse or SO. Hopefully not your "open enemies." More happily, perhaps someone like a tennis partner, a truly best friend, or any good one-on-one relationship.

Waybread you are an absolute angel!!!
I have been really struggling with how to resolve my sun squared moon issue. With my sun at 29 deg aries and my moon at 28 deg cap i have been seen as being somewhat inconsistent. Now i have always known i had problems with consistency but of late the degree to which others see this and its fallout have been revealed to me. When it comes to my children rules and structure were enforced depending on whether i was functioning in my 'sun mode' or my 'moon mode'. So my kids are really unsure of how i will react to them, loving open and warm one minute cold cross and authoritarian the next. It really breaks my heart to think i have contributed to their low self esteem by being so vaccillatory. If the kids were to come to me with a question/problem etc while my mind is somewhere else they get the cold cross response, if im actually focussed on them they get the loving warm approach. Its like my conscious mind and subconscious mind belong in two different bodies. Im trying really hard to find some way of getting my sun and moon to work together, they both have qualities necessary for constructive parenting but i have really struggle to find that point of common influence. I will be looking at my sun moon midpoint as a starting point. Thankyou so very much for your contribution. :39:

Rogue

[waybread]

Thanks, Rogue--and best wishes for your journey! W.

[2xVirgo]

Originally Posted by 4leafclovah

Really? I never heard this...

I always thought the Earth signs were supposed to be some of the best with money
I would've guessed no air would be a moneymaker. lol

[astrologer50]

Originally Posted by 2xVirgo

I always thought the Earth signs were supposed to be some of the best with money
I would've guessed no air would be a moneymaker. lol

Earth signs are best with money as detailed earlier, perhaps you read it wrongly.....

Lack of planets in earth is 'supposed' to be the sign of a moneymaker.
Capricorn and cancer are both shrewd in business and good with money and hanging onto it longer and harder than the rest of us.....

No air may well suggest over emphasised matters, verbally by way of compensation.....

[2xVirgo]

Originally Posted by astrologer50

Earth signs are best with money as detailed earlier, perhaps you read it wrongly.....

I think we were just looking at two different things. Or something like that lol

[waybread]

Originally Posted by 2xVirgo

I always thought the Earth signs were supposed to be some of the best with money
I would've guessed no air would be a moneymaker. lol

You kind of have to look at the entire chart. To cite one example, Aquarius is supposedly the "sign of the inventor" and some inventors make a lot of money from their new technologies. You could kind of go around the zodiac for other signs that rule various careers and find people who have been really successful at them.

The thing about earth signs, [to paraphrase Stephen Arroyo's book on the 4 elements] is that material things are very real to them. In astrology, money is generally considered to be material [I guess from the days prior to electronic bank transfers.] To an air sign, ideas are very real, feelings are very real to water signs, and initiative/action is very real to fire signs. So other elements can do fine with money, but they may simply not have a strong feel for it.

But again, aspects are everything. If someone has Venus in Taurus in the 2nd house, she may not manage her money at all well if it makes a T-square to Saturn and Pluto. My ex had an opposed Jupiter in the 2nd, and although he was very good mentally with numbers, he had huge problems manageing money.

In today's economy, I would sure look to Saturn re: money management.