Dissatisfaction With One's Natal Chart

[Shining Ray]

I can feel uncomfortable with my Pisces energy at times and become frustrated with it. I have a lot of squares to my Planets in Pisces so I suppose it is understandable I can get stressed out with Pisces. It can be draining to be me.

With Arian and her South Node in Virgo she knows how to be of service to others and be very helpful. Look how she organizes the forum and helps people by putting their charts up. When people are looking for information she always provides the links to the different discussions on the forum.

Arians Sun being in Aries is good because she needs to keep a strong identity for when she heads in to her North Node Pisces 12th house. Or she would end up like me with so much Pisces energy and no strong identity. She has learned to discriminate, and keep order which is great, she just has to be careful she doesn't get too obsessed with order and learn to keep a nice balance. I am learning to define a strong sense of who I am (North Node Virgo/Saturn in Virgo 1st) so I can be Pisces with a strong base and have boundaries. With my Sun being in Pisces my purpose is to be Pisces but a more enlightened Pisces. Less of the negative traits which I can easily fall into.

I don't hate my chart but I can feel uncomfortable at times. My chart holds all my challenges and gifts.

Shining Ray

[pisceskitty]

I wish I had Sagittarius rising, or my sun in a fire sign. Sometimes I feel like such a looser with all this water in my chart.[Sun/Venus/Mercury all in Pisces]. I have my Moon in Gemini, Jupiter in Aquarius, Pluto in libra, Uranus in Libra, Saturn in Gemini..only one planet in earth!![my mars in Capricorn] The only fire I have is Neptune in Sagittarius, Chiron in Aries, Juno/Ceres in Sagittarius. hell..none of my atsteroids are in earth! vesta in gemini..way too much water, and air for me.

I just wish I had more confidence to pursue my dreams/goals. I really feel like my chart is a mistake sometimes.I do have my North node in capricorn. There's just alot of sadness in my chart. Just an intensity, and heaviness that I can't seem to shake. I wish I knew how to have more fun. There are moments when I fee like a "freak' or somekind of mutant! I have alot of squares in my chart, and with all that water, I always feel like i'm going to fall apart. I just start to panic sometimes, and it prevents me from eating, sleeping properly. I'm like this live wire!

I do like my imagination, and I am a compassionate loving person. I like to take care of people, and I'm a good listener. I find myself drawn to those who are lonely-isolated in some way. It's just been a bit of a challenge finding my place in the universe. Hopefully i'll figure it out.

It seems like all the people I love vanish in some way. It's moments like these that make me feel like i'm ugly, or that somthing is wrong with me. My volunteer work does wonders for me. It has built my self-esteem slowly, and it does fill a deep void I have. Funny thing..my progressed Sun/Venus are now in Aries! So i'm getting some "borrowed" fire for awhile!

[Arian Maverick]

It seems like all the people I love vanish in some way. It's moments like these that make me feel like i'm ugly, or that somthing is wrong with me. My volunteer work does wonders for me. It has built my self-esteem slowly, and it does fill a deep void I have. Funny thing..my progressed Sun/Venus are now in Aries! So i'm getting some "borrowed" fire for awhile!

How I wish the sign Aries equalled self-esteem!

Arian Maverick

[Shining Ray]

Here is something I read by Donna Cunningham and it reminded me of this thread, and it also has made me think on the way I view my Natal Chart.

The Beloved Affliction

Of course, the majority of people who are drawn to me for chart readings and therapy are willing to grow. If they don't have motivation when they come, they have some by the time they leave, so they change and grow through difficult transits. Astrology helps, by showing the wall they have been beating their heads against and pointing out a direction around the wall. However, one unpalatable truth for me to grasp in these maturing years has been that some people DO NOT get better under "transformative" transits. One alternative is to continue in the pattern and even harden it. You can refuse to grow, continue to project the blame onto others, and cherish the pain. Some people do not get better EVER, nor do they want to. In fact despite my best efforts as an astrologer/therapist/teacher, they get worse. For a dyed-in-the-wool Jupiterian like myself, this is totally incomprehensible.

One of the few answers to this puzzle is the Beloved Affliction. Many people are in love with their problems. If you watch their faces as they talk, you observe a self satisfaction, almost a sort of pride. Watch especially the smirk as you make a suggestion. They tell you they have already tried and it didn't work, or they hand you the perfect excuse. (Gotcha!) The problem has become a part of their self concept. As they talk about MY fear of men, MY terrible work situation, or MY ulcer, you perceive that these difficulties define them, make them noteworthy, and entitle them to extra attention and concern. Pain makes them feel alive, gives their life significance and drama. Naturally, they are not going to thank you if you point a way out. They resist getting better with all the defenses in their armory. These side benefits, which therapists call the secondary gains, make it hard to relinquish the painful symptom for unknown potential good.

I CAN'T is the biggest defense; it means they won't even consider trying. Maybe they did try once, years ago and half-heartedly (or even genuinely), and didn't succeed. Now for the rest of their lives, they don't have to because they can't. Can't is a four letter word, one of the most crippling in existence. If you replace it with WON'T, you'll be closer to the truth. For instance, I can't dance and never could, but the truth is I WON'T dance. If I applied discipline, took lessons, and practiced, I could learn to dance passably, but I won't make the effort, so for now I don't dance. Before I realized that I COULD if I WOULD, however, there were all sorts of repercussions to my sense of self worth. I got to call myself clumsy, a social misfit, and a wallflower. If there are things you personally feel you cannot do, chances are a whole complex of self hating ideas follows. Try seeing it as something you WON'T do, and observe what that does to your attitude.

As far as excuses go, the astrologically sophisticated are the worse, because they talk about their chart afflictions so convincingly. "MY Mars/Saturn square gives me so much trouble with men!" MY Saturn in the second means I'll never have money." They are equalled only by the psychologically sophisticated, who refer glibly to "MY oedipal," or "MY phobia". At least the psychologically sophisticated have faith that fifteen years of analysis or the right weekend encounter group will cure them. Not so with the astrologically sophisticated. "With Saturn in the seventh, my karma is not to marry this lifetime." Fatalistic astrology is a fabulous cop out for not looking at how you create your own problem. After all with Saturn to blame, what else could you do?

If you look at your self honestly, you may see that your just a mite attached to your problem. Not in love with it, of course, like those other folks, but just a mite (a might) attached to it. Is it part of your self concept? Does it make you feel the least bit important or interesting? You can either confront the problem and work through it, or you can continue to cherish it. Whichever you choose, remember that YOU ARE NOT YOUR PROBLEM. You are not your Saturn in the seventh, you are not the Neptune that is transiting your Sun. You may be Uranian, but Uranus is not you. Your Higher Self is higher than that. That painful thing you do on the personality level is not who you are as a spiritual entity. If you are willing to work at it, you can get better.

This has certainly opened my eyes to myself.

Shining Ray

[Amit89]

The only thing I dislike about my birthchart is the moon in the 8th house, if I was born 5 minutes eariler I would have had the moon in the 9th house, life has been up and down so far, some major dissapointments.

I also dislike Saturn retrograde in my 4th house.

Otherwise it would have been a dream chart, Sun, Mercury in Gemini, Jupiter, Pars fortuna in the 10th house, Venus and Mars in the same house (11), nearly in the same same sign, Mercury conjuct Jupiter, Mercury conjuct midheaven and Venus conjuct Mars, but for the moon in the 8th house.

[Catatonia]

Originally Posted by Arian Maverick

I am not sure if this is the best board to introduce a topic containing psychological undertones, but since I intend this new thread to be astrologically-based with the central focus on natal charts, I thought that this location could still be appropriate.

Anyway, I am aware that everyone has experienced insecurities with themselves from time to time, but I am curious as to how these insecurities may manifest in the lives of individuals such as ourselves who have developed an interest in astrology. Have you noticed that the more extensively you study your natal chart and that of other people you know, the less satisfied you often become with yourself? Do you find that you often become jealous of other people's ascendants or planetary locations, or feel that the Universe somehow made a mistake? I certainly have, and I feel that my life has assumed a certain form of stagnation because of these feelings...

So, this thread is open to anyone who wishes to discuss these matters further and find healing through the gift of this community.

Arian Maverick

u R crazY.

Catatonia

[Manic_Monday]

Originally Posted by Arian Maverick

Sure, I'll lend you some fire! Just try not to get burned when taking it from me

This is so ironic...I desperately want to be a Virgo, and you want some of my fiery Aries energy. As Tim noted, the grass is always greener on the other side!

Arian Maverick

Ironic indeed! I'm a Virgo with Mercury in Virgo, and I'd love to be less shy and passive. I'd love to have some Aries in my chart.

[Manic_Monday]

Originally Posted by sam

Beth, I personally think Aries people are really, really beautiful people.
If you analyze the archetype of Aries, it's really interesting.

Aries is a baby lamb, newly born into the world and full of energy and vitality and possessing a great urge to start something. It's a really sweet and beautiful symbol, because they're like a baby kitten in a sense -- playful and happy and enjoying the simple things in life that the other signs ignore.

Anyway, sorry for that. I'm letting my Cancer show. ops:

Yes. They somewhat remind me of Tarot card the Fool. Arians are really fascinating.

[laliqueviolin]

Has it ever occured to you folks out there, where the case may be... "Oh, hm, strange I don't have this problem, or this difficulty, or that inbalance anymore" ? Where we all have nearly transcended above our charts difficult aspects or even the persona people expect from us to be, behave, thought processes, etc.,., that we no longer consider to study our charts..? Just wondering.. You can't stay one person forever.. somehow the chart has to break down or dissolve... ah, rambling Sunday thoughts.

[CapSunAriesMoon]

I think I have transcended my chart. For the longest time, I thought I was a Capricorn with Virgo rising and Moon in Aries, which was not so bad but just wasnt me. Then I saw my actual birth certificate and it turns out I'm a Cap with all that and Libra rising (which makes sense considering I'm beautiful). It bothered me to the point of overcompensation that my Ascendant squared Merc and etc. I went thru a really harsh saturn return and i really felt forever that my natal chart had something to do with it but once I devised a strategy (using a PDA) to overcome all of the negatives under my influence, I started finding that my squared-to-death chart didnt apply at all:

[CapSunAriesMoon]

Arggghhhh- I meant to put a smiley face after I'm beautiful. I swear I am not conceited!!!!!

[Howl]

Hey non conceited CSAM , I am curious.....what is PDA?

[lilllybelle]

SS, I've had the same thoughts. I've often wondered if we could totally transcend our charts. I mean we are given certain cards to grow with and to reach our highest level of potential. So is it possibel for someone to evolve to the point where that they act nothing like their chart? Can we grow past our karma? I don't think we loose all personality as we grow. Would there still be traces of our sun sign in us? L.

[Arian Maverick]

My goodness, you both are channeling Kite!

I'll have to search the forums for his exact excerpts about transcending one's natal chart...

OCD and Trichotillomania

As stupid or nasty or flippent as this sounds, I think you are spending too much time splitting hairs!

Ok the point here is that we act out what we feel and think. The entire chart is related...aspects work together not in a fragmented way. It's not like all we have to do is isolate that one aspect and we can cure whatever problem we are concerned with.

This is the lesson of your yods, your South Node Virgo in 6 and all the aspects that make you into a fireball. The whole is MORE than the sum of its parts. You have to begin to think of yourself as a whole person that is more than all these numbers and symbols put together!

We can actually rise above our charts! Do you believe that? Do you think Jesus or Buddha was limited by the aspects in their charts? No - they were able to transcend their charts by integrating all the polarities and detaching from personal desire.

OK that's my rant for the day..sorry if I offended anyone's fatalistic sensibilities.

Kite

EDIT: Here's another related thread I found in my search: Free Will and Destiny in Electional Astrology

Arian Maverick

[23]

SOrry, quick reply as I have limited time at the libraray. I have not read any responses, but I have been feeling quite down about my chart. I think a lot of it is because I have been reading Parkers and I disagree a lot with their interpretations as they are just so negative, so this has left me in a negative state of mind. I wish I just had one planet in rulership. Everything I have is in detriment or is peregrine, just an exalted Uranus that just happens to squ my sun/merc and make me cranky! I wish I had a 1st house sun too, not a 10th house, where my ego just teeters on everything, but still its good, I guess it gives some spine to my Aqu sun. I wish I didn't have a 7th house lib moon either, then I wouldn't need to depend on others.

I think in some ways, my over-airiness of my chart and the splash pattern has highly disadvantaged me, as I can't make a decision, I have way to many interests and I never dabble deeply in interests, except maybe astrology. Don't feel like I am really fulfilling my SCo NN.

[Summery Joy]

Here's a thought;

If a natal gets frustrated of certains placements or jealous of placements that they don't have, they should recognize the pattern. The chart has the answer.

I'll use my chart as an example. Placements that makes me envious of other people charts include Sag place. I just love Sag and wish I had personal planets in it. Well, let's look at Sag in my chart.

I have two Sag placements, the DSC and Neptune. Neptune Trines 3 f 5 of my natal planets and has minor aspects with the rest of the placements.

Let's analyze that, the DSC is what one needs from the world. It shows attributes that, if existed, would make the world a better place for the natal. To me, that's Sag. I need Sag; it makes my life brighter. As the opposite of my ASC(what I offer to the world) it completes me.

The porblem is, I don't know how to directly give it to myself because I don't have a personal planet in Sag. I have one generational planet, Neptune. Neptune is a planet that rules dreams and higher aspirations. That intensifies my Sag dreams and turns them into dreams. Neptune aspecting all my personal planets makes it a personal dream, not just a generational one.

Sag needs and dreams? OK, if the chart shows needs, it definitely shows how to satisfy them. I'm lucky though. The same placements that give me the Sag dreams also show me how to realize them.

Neptine trines my Leo stellium. Its energies work harmoniously with Sun, Venus, Jupiter. It also has a platick tein with Mercury in Leo, but Mercury is out of orb. Obviously, I have the potential to work personally with the generational Sag Neptune energy. I have a lot of fire and air placements, which go well with Sag and help me relate to it.

Sag is ruled by Jupiter, I can look at Jupiter. Jupiter is in a tight conjunction with Sun, Venus and IC. This fusion of energy is defintely Sag flavored (especially that is aspects Sag).

You see what I'm getting at here? I have many other placements that I dislike, especially those related to Pisces and 12th house. The way around them to connect to their positive sides, and try to relate to their polar opposites to lessen the effects of the negative sides. I won't blab about those much though. I think you know what I mean now.

[Manic_Monday]

I don't want to change anything about my chart. Except for my first House Saturn. I hate it. It makes me so scared for everything. I have to work everything out in my head first, I can't be impulsive, spontaneous. I'm just to scared.
I don't possess the responsibility that comes with this placement. Neither the discipline. I should be doing my homework for Maths, but what am I doing? Going online

[lilllybelle]

Thank you for the links Arian. Don't worry Manic Monday, I'm procrasinating on doing my homework right now too. L.

[Howl]

Sorehearted,

I read your theory with interest . I don't think that there's actually a sign that I want to "be" more of, myself, but the constant attraction of Capricorn men into my life certainly suggests that I require more "Capricorn" in my environment. I have a Cappie descendant.

I wonder, do you include the nodes as personal placements which could be the "how" to meet your own needs? I have a 7H Cappie south node. The Cappies I attract aren't particularly "typical" ones, I tend to rely on their reliable personalities rather than their reliable anything else.

Does it sound likely to you that because I have a S.Node Cappie, I can fulfil my needs for "grounding" (I seriously lack earth) more easily, and so while I attract Cappie guys, they don't "fill" a Cappie gap in my life so much. I think it works that way for me. I appreciate their energy, but don't need them to provide me with the manifestations of that energy (material acheivement, authority, etc) because those are already, to some degree, a gift of my own?

Hehehe, I'm going to stop hijacking the thread now. I just thought your approach to Asc and Desc was a fresh one, and hope you have something to say about the conjunction of my nodal, and Asc/Desc axis