Trouble separating thoughts from emotions/feelings

Froggy · #1 12-17-2008, 09:51 PM

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Nexus7 · #2 12-17-2008, 10:06 PM

My first thought Froogy. likewise, was Mercury square Moon. Also can be very inconstistent, this one. I have a semi-square myself. Certainly, when trying to explain grammar to a non-native, I get to meet this semi-square. Thinking about how to do something can interfere with actually doing it.
Air/water sqaures of any kind, as you say again, may have the same result.

Actually too, maybe having too much air in the chart.

Someties, the conflict may be to do with real feelings and 'shoulds' - here, maybe, look for Saturn. Jupiter, meanwhile, may look for meaning, either in connection with thoughts or feelings, that isn't actually there. And maybe Pluto there for that one, too.

kronos · #3 12-17-2008, 10:22 PM

there can be a unification of your thoughts and feelings, or there can be a schism between them. if you've ever taken any meditation instructions, you would be instructed to focus on your breathing, labeling your thoughts as thinking so that you can come back to your breath. aspects between mercury and the moon can be very telling in terms of your disposition in this matter. i would also look at the placement of mars, because that would indicate the nature of how you express yourself through your actions. ideally, you would unify the relationship between your feelings and actions, which would in turn unify your feelings and actions with your thoughts.

Plutonian Persona · #4 12-17-2008, 11:53 PM

I'm with you on this Froggy! I have a 1st house Moon conjunct Mercury in Scorpio and, to say the least, my thoughts are my feelings and vice versa. Added on top of this is the Leo Mars square, which only complicates things because thinking before speaking has taken A LOT of practice.

Shining Ray · #5 12-18-2008, 05:32 AM

I have this trouble usually my emotions overtake and then because my Moon is conjunct Mercury in Pisces square Neptune I can pick up too much from the environment other people's emotions and thoughts can cloud my own judgement. Sometimes I have a hard time thinking for myself. The placement is good for imagination, it can work well when you need to write feelings and thoughts onto paper sometimes this is the best release. Write a diary or jornal sometimes it helps to rationalize your feelings. Yours also involves mutable signs which can feel more restless and dissatisfied maybe you need to keep exploring personal beliefs with the Sagittarius/Pisces square what you feel on the emotional level about life and what you feel on the intellectually level needs to work together.

The_Sundance_Kid · #6 12-18-2008, 12:41 PM

You didn't mention moons in air signs- I have a moon in Gemini and Mercury in Scorpio. Thoughts and feelings are on a constant feedback loop and I can't distinguish the two.

I think Moon Mercury aspects, Mercury Neptune aspects, Moon in an air sign with Mercury in a water sign, water planets ruling or in the 3rd house or 9th house, and then air planets in the 4th 8th or 12th.

Although when air planets are on the 4th 8th or 12th it is also likely that the emotions are cut off by rational mind, and not simply fused from it. I guess it is easier to eliminate emotion than it is to eliminate thought?

I think Mercury Jupiter or Mercury Pluto can keep thoughts and emotions in tandem, and make them strongly linked, but the native can distinguish between them.

Claire19 · #7 12-19-2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Froggy

So I'm reading this book (psychology) and it's talking about people that struggle to separate their feelings from their thinking. To which I responded, "what? The things I think and the things I feel are the same!!!" But I guess the book is saying that this is not always the case.

So naturally I wondered if astrologically, this could show up in a chart.
I figured, okay, thoughts and emotions. Mercury and moon. I would guess that the thoughts would have to be connected to emotions in some way. So my guess is either: Mercury in a water sign, or Mercury in aspect to the moon.
I have both of these in my own chart...Mercury in Pisces, square moon.

Do any of you struggle with separating your emotions from your thoughts (OR, or any of you really awesome at it)? What placements/aspects could contribute to these two extremes???

Moon in hard aspect with Mercury definitely. I have a weak influence being 9 degrees apart but it is there somewhat. As I have matured I have managed to control it more and I think it is a sign of immaturity which can be managed.

It tends to make you illogical when your emotions are affected and can have outbursts which are over the top to the situation.

Mercury in Pisces can give a bit of a victim or feeling sorry for oneself effect.

Claire19 · #8 12-19-2008, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plutonian Persona

I'm with you on this Froggy! I have a 1st house Moon conjunct Mercury in Scorpio and, to say the least, my thoughts are my feelings and vice versa. Added on top of this is the Leo Mars square, which only complicates things because thinking before speaking has taken A LOT of practice.

I agree that this aspect can be managed as we mature I have found. Scorpio is about control and power and if you feel undermined it can press your buttons. You need to watch for physical violence with this one as they are all in fixed mode which deals in the physical world.

reallypisces · #9 12-20-2008, 06:35 PM

I definitely have this problem. It comes up especially when I try to rely on my (so-called) intuition. I often realize that I can't distinguish between a feeling that something is true and a thought. It also sometimes seems to me that I try to use logic where I should use feelings and vice versa, and I'm really confused which is which. I have (of course

) Mercury in Pisces, it has no aspects to Moon (which is in 0 degrees Leo) and 3rd house in Cancer. By the way anyone has a good method of distinguishing the two?

Plutonian Persona · #10 12-20-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire19

I agree that this aspect can be managed as we mature I have found. Scorpio is about control and power and if you feel undermined it can press your buttons. You need to watch for physical violence with this one as they are all in fixed mode which deals in the physical world.

I felt undermined a lot growing up, but with my Saturn Return going on and all that I've been through over the last few years, I've learned a lot of lessons about control and power. Harnessing control and power for good, instead of "evil" takes a conscious effort and lots of practice. Also, I've never really been physically violent (after seeing what my dad did to my mom, it made me never want to hit anyone), even with a Scorpio Uranus being involved as well.

natasa812 · #11 12-20-2008, 07:13 PM

Astrologycaly - you should look at the Neptune too.
Psychologically, it is called (now the hard part - the translation from greek in to english) self - practicable prevision (if this is the right term in english). It is whan you belive (because you have a ``feeling``) that something is true, you adjust your behaviour and change it, so, automaticly the other part (person, group or your class for example - if you are a class teacher), reacts according to your ``new`` behaviour, and than, the ``feeling``, or the ``thought`` you had, or the ``vision`` or the ``intuition``, becames reality - because now we have a real event - the reaction. But, if you dont have ``any feeling`` for anything, it gives you (to me it gave) a feeling of emptiness. The other possibility is to have a ``good feeling`` always and not to prejudge negatively. And the third option of course is to have a ``negative feeling``. We (the humans) unfortunatly, dont have the 4. option or at least it is not invented yet.
The only tool our University profesors gave to us was a sentence ``My feelings are not the reality`` (as scientifically is proved that thay are not). So, maybe, just so simply, we should say NO.
Now, according to Murfy`s law, the reality is what is happening to us while we have other plans in our had (like feelings, imagination, intuition, fantasising our future and so on...)
Me, still trying not to fall either in the trap of ``always positive`` or ``always negative`` or ``emptiness`` path. Just to be objective... but optimistic.
Wish you the very best (my AC is in Pisces)
Natasha

natasa812 · #12 12-21-2008, 01:17 PM

Dear CahrmVirgo,
since you are a charming guy, I am sure that you are not ``so`` allone. Besides, you are a tidy and disciplined Virgo which makes you one of most wanted partners for home. After all, you have so many friends on this site and I am sure, with all of your love for animals, you must be very popular and loved in your neighborhood. People like you are very appreciated in Animal aid organizations as also in Local support groups, so, just join and you will see how many people and even more animals need you. Animals, more than people, appreciate cleaned, well orginised, tidy, in order and ``all on time`` enviroment and meals. So, use your positive characteristics as a Virgo. There are many.
Life is beautifull, thake some sunny optimistic regards from Sagittarius and you can always borrow a little bit of ours superficial point of view (if one cat goes away, another one comes after, so - dont worry!). Do what a friend of mine does: by a collar for your cat and take a walk (if nothing else, everyone stopes her to ask ``They sell collars for cats this days``? or ``Is this a new fashion``?). Nowone is allone and many of us will be here for holidays (I have to work and my family is far away (what ever has left of it) because I also had losts in family), if nothing else, there will be many people on line this days - staying at home for many different reasons, so, plug in!). And please concentrate on things YOU HAVE and dont think about things you dont have. And past has past away (and it is not coming back - never!).
Natasha

Polo · #13 12-21-2008, 10:41 PM

There would probably be a problem with over-talking, but Moon in hard aspect to Mercury can make for a very funny individual.

iwonder · #14 12-23-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Froggy

So I'm reading this book (psychology) and it's talking about people that struggle to separate their feelings from their thinking. To which I responded, "what? The things I think and the things I feel are the same!!!" But I guess the book is saying that this is not always the case.

Do any of you struggle with separating your emotions from your thoughts (OR, or any of you really awesome at it)? What placements/aspects could contribute to these two extremes???

It is somewhat confusing.

Do people mix thoughts with emotions when emotions color their thinking to the point of being irrational, illogical, when person cannot explain his/her thoughts? Then it must be Mercury/Neptune and lots of water.

Or is it when people are so aware of what they feel, they are able to describe every emotion in words? Then it must be Mercury/Moon and air.

And what is the opposite of it? A person out of touch with his/her inner self?

iwonder · #15 12-23-2008, 02:23 PM

I think I come from a different camp than you guys. No, what I feel is not what I think. This is not to say that my thoughts are not affected by my emotional state or that I cannot change my emotions by thinking differently.

Well, here is a recent example. I bought myself a present (yeah, I do that) - a pair of pearl earrings. Lovely! And I was so excited for two days straight, I thought it was silly. But the excitement was not my thoughts. It was my mood, and it was absolutely clear to me.

I can feel upset and think negatively, but I know it is because I am upset.

I only recently learned to listen to my intuition. Actually, still learning.

So I don't know if this is what it is to be able to separate feelings and thoughts. To me it is.

For the record, my Mercury is in Libra, My Moon is in Scorpio. No connection between them. Neptune is not aspecting either. I was also thinking maybe hard aspects between Sun (self-consciousness) and Moon (emotions and subconscious functioning) can mix feelings and thinking. Mine are in sextile.

Plutonian Persona · #16 12-23-2008, 06:27 PM

The only major Neptune aspect I have is a trine with Mars, which in all honesty helps soften things a bit. Unfortunately, Neptune is also in my 2nd house so basic values are a bit too sensitive and idealistic, which doesn't help with all the water in my chart. Incidentally, if you want to see my point about thoughts/feelings being the same and having to think before I speak, look at my thread on the Internet "troll." My Mars squaring the Scorp stellium is in full view!

iwonder · #17 12-24-2008, 02:50 AM

I think acting/speaking under emotions and separate thoughts from emotions are two different things.

Plutonian Persona, you were mad (feeling) at the troll and it got you thinking - about what to tell him, about what's in his chart that makes him a troll. There were two separate parts to it, right?

Froggy, what does your textbook say?

Kingsley · #18 12-24-2008, 03:19 AM

Separating thoughts from emotions remains one of the most common neurotic dysfunctions in the modern world. I doubt that any astrology could show a simplistic interpretation of such pathology.

There are three main functions of the psyche Thinking Feeling and Doing. We will all tend to gravitate to a main arm in the triangle of feeling thinking and doing.

Those who are always thinking may be ok with "doing" things however feelings are never accessed. These people clam up when you ask them a "feeling question". Its best to ask them how do you think you feel. Thinking is safer for them and feelings is their "trap door" slamming on you.

These are just coping mechanisms and also play a role in diagnosis of personality. The Hystrionic person will full of feelings and not attempt to see things clearly (think). The OC person will think and 'do' a great deal but have anxiety when feelings emerge.

The astrological indicators for how a person might differentiate feellings from thinking may be found in other potential personality functions.

The Moon Mercury person may have a good sense of what their feelings are and therefore be able to process their environment better.

The Mercury in Pisces person will have a different way of thinking and develop kinisetic or vicarious processes to work things out. Perhaps they lie to themselves about the truth? (denial)

The Moon Saturn person will not openly express feelings and the Mercury Saturn or Neptune person will most likely have difficulties with processing their ever changing environment.

Mercury-Pluto have an intense way of using their thinking
Moon Neptune or Merc Neptune will have trouble thinking and perhaps even do things in a way to remain confused. It suits them being confused - its a coping style.

When a person says "I am going get killed if I dont pay this bill" they are having a contaminated thought. Their feellings are getting mixed up with thinking and they are just not seeing things clearly. No one dies from not paying a bill. (unless its to the mafia). In this situation it pays to work with problem solving and thinking and thus the feeling stress or confusion reduces.

There are many astrology indicators of ones thinking abilities and how one might express feelings. Differentiating thinking and feelings is such a common human condition which we experience on a daily basis the astrological indicators tend to show the exaggerated cases. Psychological drivers, coping methods or defenses in personality will all have a degree of mixing feelings with thinking. Its a neurosis and the modern world has a great deall of anxiety going on.

kingsley

AquaAqua · #19 12-24-2008, 03:34 AM

Mercury parallel Neptune

This infuses a dose of idealism in the thinking process of an individual and as he or she grows up contact with real world brings confusion. The idealism is very strong here It also brings a lot of guilt and self loathing to the native and mars thier ability to think though situations.

Aqua

Kingsley · #20 12-24-2008, 04:24 AM

Neptune is the great dissolver Aqua.

k

Plutonian Persona · #21 12-24-2008, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwonder

I think acting/speaking under emotions and separate thoughts from emotions are two different things.

Plutonian Persona, you were mad (feeling) at the troll and it got you thinking - about what to tell him, about what's in his chart that makes him a troll. There were two separate parts to it, right?

Froggy, what does your textbook say?

Yup, but that was a conscious effort on my part again. I came so close to just going over there and roasting those guys, but I stopped myself and said how can I stop those irrational feelings/thoughts, do something positive, and take the high road? That is literally 20 years worth of effort culminating in one moment; made me proud of myself.

AquaAqua · #22 12-25-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingsley

Neptune is the great dissolver Aqua.

k

I am sorry i did not understand. Could you explain what 'neptune being a great dissolver' mean.

My understanding of Neptune is based on what i have observed in real practical, tangible manner. And that includes 3 people

When i meant guilt or self loathing..i meant when a person is not able to achieve some og thier 'ideals' they are constantly at a war with themselves. They may be doing perfectly well, but it sure does causes inconvinience.

Aqua

Kingsley · #23 12-25-2008, 10:27 PM

Neptune 'disolves matter' or ego's or perceptions of reality sometimes one cannot hang on to these liquid forms and instead must flow with Neptunes disollution. Something will hopefully emerge from the alchemal reduction of what we once knew to exist. Something crystalises into newer forms but first Neptune's melting pot must do its "dissolving".

kingsley

dog8818 · #24 01-20-2009, 07:37 AM

I have Merc. in Virgo (5th house), Moon in Scorp. (7th house) so I have intense feelings that I immediately take up into my head and analyze endlessly: i.e., "should I feel this way, am I allowed to feel this way, how will it impact other people if I feel this way, how should I say how I feel" blah blah blah. It's the 7th house that has me *******. I should be able to clearly state Moon in Scorp feelings but I never have. I hide them under my "logic". It's a rotten defense mechanism, because I lay awake at night wishing I had said this or that.

My daughter (28) is a Aquarius with Moon in Gemini. Her favorite thing to say to me when she lived at home was WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS MAKING ME FEEL THINGS? She inherited my trait of bringing the feelings into her head.

starlink · #25 01-20-2009, 11:39 AM

When people have a lack of Water and Earth in their charts and only are made up of Air and Fire, you have a problem at your hand. These people tend to totally overcompensate the waterelement and dont know how to bring êmotions into the right proportions. They overanalyse every emotional upset, every emotional feeling. There is hardly any "just quietly thinking" without also introducing an element of emotion into it. Very energy consuming.