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Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts. Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


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  #1  
Old 03-23-2006, 04:56 PM
Lennon Lennon is offline
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The WORST chart ever? Could it be?! :P

I have a strange women who lives down the way from me in my apartment complex. We share nothing in common (given, I'm a tauras, she's a sagg...) except that we both enjoy astrology.

According to her, my birth chart is... *clears throat*.... the worst she's ever seen.

I have a difficult time believing this... afterall. I may be crazy, but I would like to believe that some inkling of me is not doomed to wander around the reject of all planets, people, etc, etc.

If someone would humor this poor soul and perhaps tell me what's going on with my chart here... I would be forever in your debt. :mrgreen:

May 18, 1988
9:36 AM
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Old 03-23-2006, 05:17 PM
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Arian Maverick Arian Maverick is offline
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The worst chart she's ever seen? Sure, you have an opposition between your twelfth house Gemini/Cancer stellium and your sixth house Capricorn stellium, and the twelfth house isn't generally considered favorable, but I would never think to give any chart that description! Each arrangement of planets, signs, and houses is entirely unique...each has harmonious (not necessarily good) and difficult (not necessarily bad) energies that an individual must learn to incorporate throughout their lifetime.

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Old 03-23-2006, 05:32 PM
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wilsontc wilsontc is offline
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Lennon,

You said:
Quote:
I have a strange women who lives down the way from me in my apartment complex. We share nothing in common (given, I'm a tauras, she's a sagg...) except that we both enjoy astrology. According to her, my birth chart is... *clears throat*.... the worst she's ever seen.
There is a nasty habit some astrologers get into, of making casual judgment calls against charts...forgetting that there are PEOPLE attached to those charts who have to LIVE with those charts day in, day out. So I would suggest, first of all, demanding an apology from her or, short of that, never talking to her again. Some people help us, others try to hurt us. She seems to be of the latter kind. Life is too short to spend time with people who don't respect ourselves and our energies.

THAT rant out of the way... A birthchart is your life potential, showing how your life energy interacts with itself and where the focuses in your life are. What you DO with that energy is up to you. So there are no "good" or "bad" charts, only people who make decisions to be "good" or "bad" (e.g., Hitler and Mussolini are examples of people who decided to be "bad" persons).

Here is an easy way to read this chart: look for the "red" marks...these are the challenges in your life. Notice that there are a LOT of red marks between 6th house (daily work, also routine) and the 12th house (spirituality, also confuson)...this indicates a challenge balancing out routine work and "spiritual" work, which could be confusing to you. Also notice that some of the planets are VERY close together, indicating that this energy is "pushed together" or "combined" in some way (called a conjunction).

One challenging combination of energies is Saturn (duty, also structure, restriction) conjunct Uranus (friends, also restructuring). The challenge is that this could lead you to structure something then immediately restructuring it, creating a cycle of building up and tearing down. This could be self-destructive. Instead, build something, KEEP it, but then REstructure it so you can improve it.

In addition, you have a least aspected (strong energy) Sun (self-expression) and Jupiter (expansion, also wisdom). As a result you do not easily "connect in" with your self-expression or your wisdom. This may cause you to OVER express yourself or OVER study in an effort to "feel" self-expression and wisdom. Instead, trust that your self-expression and wisdom are there, strong and healthy. Notice how your self-expression and wisdom affect those around you and realize that a little wise self-expression goes a LONG way for you.

There are challenges in this chart and in your life...but these life challenges make us stronger and better people than we would have been without the challenges in our life. Accept your challenges, embrace your chart and yourself, and continue to learn more about yourself through astrology.

Astrologizing nicely,

Tim
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  #4  
Old 03-23-2006, 06:22 PM
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Kite Kite is offline
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Suggest you give up astrology and get into Numerology as your Life Path is a 22 which is a Master Number. The number of the visionary and the builder.

Sure your chart has challenges but anyone of consequence has challenges in their chart. What one person views as emotional struggles (your Moon conjunct Venus opposing Saturn/Uranus) others might view as non-tranditional relationships that can take on a mystical flavor involving transformative healing work (maybe Rieki massage) and work that heals the wounds of living in an alienated world.

It's all in the beholder and how one chooses their path. Chiron, the Wounded healer within you is in Gemini (hands) in the 12th house (wounds of being separated from one's cosmic home). The degree Chiron is in reads:

87__(27)
YOUNG GYPSY EMERGING FROM THE WOODS GAZES AT FAR CITIES Growth of consciousness from the instinctual to the intellectual. Anticipation and mounting self-confidence. Deep longing.
___*When positive, the degree is self-release through a joy in the accomplishments of the moment , and when negative, complete disinclination to enter into the ordinary relationships of society.

It's up to you to choose which side of the equation you want to be on.

Kite
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Old 03-23-2006, 06:25 PM
Lennon Lennon is offline
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Thanks for the replies...

You're right Arian. I don't really talk to her much... but I do understand where you are coming from. It is a bad thing to say...

That's all very true... I do have a habit of being self-destructive in pretty much everything I do. And a tendency to create something and destroy it...

Is there anything... eh... remotely positive about my chart? lol

It's interesting you say that, because I have become recently interested in numerology and most especially my 22 lifepath number. I felt it actually more relevant than my astrological chart, because I've always had a feeling I was meant to do something... whatever that might be. Thanks for the advice!
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Old 03-23-2006, 06:52 PM
Laura Elizabeth Laura Elizabeth is offline
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The worst chart she's ever seen?

Maybe she needs to see more charts

A number of retrogrades sometimes indicates a slow start and couple of people have mentioned prograstination to me. If you have a problem getting start or finishing something, being aware of it helps you to remind you to keep going. The number of oppositions you have are a good thing. They keep you moving and thinking - just don't end up chasing your own tail You have more choices than most, which can be really bad if you're inclined to procrastinate - again, forewarned is forearmed. As Kite said, it's your choice.

With Venus trine Mars you should have enough passion in you for the long haul. Oh! You have Saturn conjunct Uranus as well - bringing together inspiration and perspiration - great ideas can be made manifest!
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  #7  
Old 03-23-2006, 07:48 PM
knowyourself knowyourself is offline
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What a shameful thing to say to anyone!

Our charts provide a key for personal understanding and growth.

Unfortunately letting the wrong people see them makes us vulnerble to the insensitive and the unwise.

What your insensitive neighbor saw was a pattern of potentially immense power in need of channeling. I suspect the power she saw there scared her!

All charts should be read as wholes and not as isolated parts.

In your case, you have a larger pattern that can integrate the obvious. opposion. Mars connects, via a trine and a sextile, with the respective ends of the opposing stellia. This would seem to provide an outlet for the energy you carry within. How you do the job of integration is a challenge but, considering the potential power, well worth the doing.

To understand the function of your chart as a whole planetary pattern, I would suggest that you read [I'm quoting here]:

THE GUIDE TO HOROSCOPE INTERPRETATION

by Marc Edmund Jones

This is the famous book on Planetary Patterns, which Marc Edmund Jones was the first to discover: The Splash, Bundle, Locomotive, Bowl, Bucket, Seesaw & Splay.

The book is old but it is still available.

Good luck.
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Old 03-23-2006, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lennon
Is there anything... eh... remotely positive about my chart? lol
Well, not that I perceive placements as positive or negative, but you do have 4 planets in the signs they rule; Moon in Cancer, Mercury in Gemini, Saturn in Capricorn and Pluto in Scoprio. This allows them to funtion the manner they are most comfortable, whatever that may mean for each planet. That can't be a bad thing, right?
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Old 03-23-2006, 09:30 PM
Lennon Lennon is offline
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Thanks everyone for your responses. It's very much appreciated, everyone in this community is very knowledgable and kind.


Quote:
Originally Posted by knowyourself

What your insensitive neighbor saw was a pattern of potentially immense power in need of channeling. I suspect the power she saw there scared her!
.
Do you mind if I ask what you mean by power? I ask because I kind of had a feeling I scared her off with my chart for some reason like that. She looks at me in a way I can't place since I gave it to her. I thought I was just overreacting but hey...

lol, well, I suppose you are right. I was always happy with my mercury in Gemini because I understood that to be a somewhat positive thing.
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  #10  
Old 03-24-2006, 02:52 AM
knowyourself knowyourself is offline
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"Do you mind if I ask what you mean by power? I ask because I kind of had a feeling I scared her off with my chart for some reason like that. She looks at me in a way I can't place since I gave it to her. I thought I was just overreacting but hey..."

What do I mean by power?

A stellium reflects a concentration of the psychic energy of the lights involved and the house they occupy.

Planets in opposition reflect opposing energies.

So ... what you see are not just two opposing planets but two larger concentrations of planetary energy in a still larger opposition which creats power that calls for an outlet.

Fortunately, your chart shows an outlet in your mars, a planet well suited to questions of dealing with focusing power.

Using well the power you carry within is a challenge that calls for patience, persistence and reflection. Learn more about astrology. There's no hurry.

CRAZY METAPHOR:

Imagine you have just gotten your first driver's license and, as a reward, you have been given a new top of the line Ferrari. Even the best Ferrari drivers find they need to attend the manufacturer's driving school. They also need the right road, one that will allow them to express the power they have been given.

Don't let your neighbor's reaction distract or upset you.

She has her own challenges ... we all do.
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  #11  
Old 03-24-2006, 03:28 PM
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Lunar Pisces Lunar Pisces is offline
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I agree with what the others have said - such blanket and dismissive judgements of a chart indicate someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. Very interesting that this person is a Sag, which merits a few comments.

Before anyone thinks I'm being unfair toward Sags, let me say I adore Jon Stewart (heavy on in the Sag department) and my closest, dearest pal is a Sag rising. That aside...LOL... Sags are notorious for what they like to jokingly call "foot in mouth disease" (or what less patient people may call "laspes of intelligence, decency, and/or common sense). They may often say things without thinking or being aware of how what they say impacts other - i.e., what shrinks like to call "a lack of self-filtering." Tis the glory of Jupiter, Sag's ruler - the biggest, most obnoxious and incorrigibly optimistic planet gracing our solar system. Jupiter likes to think that it can do no wrong, and that its every intention is on the mark - and thus there's never need for re-examination or caution. Some astrologers often refer to Jupiter's "god complex": its inclination to think it is infallible, immortal or immune, a kind of a "god among gods" mentality that, yes, Saggy people can often exhibit themselves. Add do this that Jupiter's element is fire - the element of energy, in particular the impulsive kind. No wonder that Jupiter is also behind a lot of poor planning, thoughtlessness, carelessness, bone-headnedness, crassness, clueness and all other sorts of delightful folly. Jupiter's motto ought to be: "It seemed like a good idea at the time."

So don't take what this Sag said so impulsively and without good thought to heart. As knowyourself said, she has her own challenges.

Now as for your chart, I can say - as an astrologer that has spent a lot of time looking at charts of mentally ill, disturbed or otherwise deeply troubled persons and know what a really challenging chart looks like - yours, well, doesn't look anything like those charts. Yes you have your own challenges, and some very interesting ones too, but nothing that suggests you need to fear yourself or your future. You see, as an astrologer, I firmly hold that charts are not the be-all, end-all of a person. We still have many choices to make that will define what kind of person we will because. A chart simply indicates what you're starting with on your lifepath and what challenges you may face. A chart gives us insight into ourselves, but it is not the final word: we ultimately make those choices that define who and what we are in the end.

Don't let the talk of the 12th house sacre you by the way. While, yes, the 12th house is a very "iffy" house in some regards, I don't think it's as a big, scary of an issue for you and here's why:

Forget thinking about stelliums for a second: What you have a multiple opposition, a little known but very powerful "aspect configuration" (a configuration of more than two planets, which if combined with certain aspects, create a kind of unit of planets that combine and intergrate those planetery energies in specific ways). For you, moon, Chiron, Venus and merc on one end and Neptune, Uranus and Saturn on the other. Essentially, you should look at this is Personal Planets* opposing Outer Planets. Personal planets reflect very individual, persoanle nergies and interests, while outer planets reflect energies and interests that extend past your own indiviudality, and including your family, community, generation, society as a whole. The opposition reflects a conflict that sways from one extreme to the other (the Personal grouping or the Outer grouping), and the conflict's extremes will manifest in the areas of your life represented by the houses: the 6th (work, health, supportive relationships, communication skills, manual skills, judgement, critical thinking, mundane tasks and responsibilities) adn the 12th (spirituality, transcendence, higher purpose/calling, the unconscious mind, dreams, the "shadow self," deep or past traumas, memory, mysteries of life and one's connection withe God/cosmos).

Multiple oppisitons are not easy to work out (I know - I have one too!), but they are powerful. By powerful I mean, they challenge you to make tough choices, to learn from your mistakes, to grow and learn in insight and wisdom, to exercise your knowledge and skills effectively. A mulitple oppostion isn't an "easy" config like a grand trine: whatever choices you make in your life, you WILL see the consequences, good or bad. You may feel at times this is very unfair, as - if you're like me - you'll probably see people all around you getting away with bad choices and seemingly not paying for them. But you can't think negatively. You have something some others lack: energies that oblige you to participate in your life, that demand you recognize the power ans consequences of your own choices. This is why this is considered a "fated" configuration, because whether or not you accept this challenge to be accountable for your own choices defines your fate.

Ideally, if you do choose to be accountable for your choices, then this config will continually challenge you to grow and learn about yourself and your place in the world - sometimes painfully, but your life will never be truly stagnate (even if it appears to be). As you grow, the easier it will be to balance out this config's demanding energies and the less struggle there will be between the two extremes. It's a like a sophisticated tool that you will need a lot of practice to learn to use it effectively and gracefully. There may be many times in your life where you feel overwhelmed, confused or perhaps "doomed" but this is simply not the case with this config. It always gives you the power to change your life through your own choices (although sometimes, they may be very uncomfortable choices! :P ). In the end you have the potential of achhieving growth and wisdom that others may not obtain in this life, simply because you have had this specific challenge.


*A comment about my inclusion of Chiron with the "personal planets": Chiron, although a very distant asteroid, is considered a "higher moon" by many, including myself. While it doesn't behave like the major planets in a consistant manner (being so far away), it can behave more like an personal OR outer planet, depending on its placement on in the chart. Seeing it has a unique relationship with the moon, I would consider Chiron in your chart as acting more like a personal planet as it is orb conjunct your moon (as well as with too other personal planets). Hope that makes sense.
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Old 03-24-2006, 03:28 PM
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Lunar Pisces Lunar Pisces is offline
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oops, double post...
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Old 03-24-2006, 10:11 PM
Ihatelawschool Ihatelawschool is offline
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thts not a nice thing to say!
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Old 03-25-2006, 12:01 AM
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Lunar Pisces Lunar Pisces is offline
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thts not a nice thing to say!
What's not a nice thing to say? If you wish to make an accusation, please explain. :?
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Old 03-25-2006, 12:06 AM
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Arian Maverick Arian Maverick is offline
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IWhat's not a nice thing to say? If you wish to make an accusation, please explain.
Lunar Pisces, I was orignally confused by this seemingly accusatory statement before I realized Ihatelawschool was probably referring to the lady who called Lennon's natal chart the worst she's ever seen

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Old 03-25-2006, 12:08 AM
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Lunar Pisces Lunar Pisces is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arian Maverick
Quote:
IWhat's not a nice thing to say? If you wish to make an accusation, please explain.
Lunar Pisces, I was orignally confused by this seemingly accusatory statement before I realized Ihatelawschool was probably referring to the lady who called Lennon's natal chart the worst she's ever seen

Arian Maverick
Hmm, I suppose you could be right. I get a bit uppity because people often accuse me of not being nice - granted, being a Pluto rising, that may all be well and true at times. LOL!
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Old 03-25-2006, 12:11 AM
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Arian Maverick Arian Maverick is offline
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Quote:
Hmm, I suppose you could be right. I get a bit uppity because people often accuse me of not being nice - granted, being a Pluto rising, that may all be well and true at times. LOL!
I know exactly how you feel...with such a strong Arian influence in my chart I am often quick to jump to conclusions, and with my chart ruler in the third house of Gemini I can defend myself and debate with the best of 'em. I am sure you have must have noticed this by now :mrgreen:

EDIT: I almost forgot to mention that thanks to that great link you gave us on the Chart Assistance Board, I discovered that I have a Pluto singleton--by modality, element, sign orientation, and house orientation! It's also located in my eigth house in Scorpio and receives double inconjuncts from my Sun/Venus/Mercury conjunction and Mars :twisted:

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Old 03-27-2006, 03:27 PM
Lennon Lennon is offline
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Lunar Pisces

Thanks for the reply... I understand what you're getting at *shiver*. The lethargic in me would like to throw fate down a mine shaft at this point and time, but I suppose I really have no choice in the matter, aye?

I guess you're right... it is all on how you look at it. My tendency to become Jim Morrison-esk-negative needs to be abolished, one way or another...

Yeah. My mums a sag, and I learned about these traits too early on, lol. They're a very charming like, but also very impulsive and tricky...

knowyourself

Thanks for the explanation... my weak brain cells are currently acting on your words like white/red blood cells do a wound, lol... I think I understood most of it... I guess I will have to read more on astrology, though :mrgreen:
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Old 03-28-2006, 01:41 AM
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Its a strong 6th 12 house polarity in your chart.
My cousin has a strong 6th 12 th polarity and she is is just starting out in a successful future as a fashion designer.

Her health has been good and she is a well adjusted woman.

The placement of your sun & its sign give an inkling as to where you wish to go with your future.

Your Jupiter Pluto opposition CAN give a drive to succeed.

Your 6th 12 th polarity are around your balance between body & soul.
See a good astrologer who will explain your chart properly.

Charts are not bad or good they are the personality history & potential we work with.
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:02 PM
Lennon Lennon is offline
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Thanks Natasha... It's always nice to here that someone out there with a similar chart placement is stepping forward in life. It certainly gives me hope.
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