Conception & inherited family aspects

[Squapius]

Hayo!

Many of you have seen the thread that is about your rising sign and your mother´s moon. The one that says that as long your birth was natural, then your rising sign will be your mother´s moon (Asc & mother´s moon thread).
I don´t know if that´s true, even that happens with several births, because sometimes the first child is born, but his other siblings have another ascendants even when they were born naturally like him.
And that the moon in general could represent the mother in the natal chart.

So, one of my questions is what would be representing the father in the natal chart (besides saturn or the 10th house). I´d want to know if there´s a more considerable indicator of the father in the chart like the one of the mother´s moon and the asc.

And the other thing I was thinking about why do exist similarities or specific aspect configurations between the charts of the family members. Why this does happen in some families?
How comes that those aspects are inherited to the newborns? And if they are inherited, how does that happen? What make the parents mate in the exact time that will let the baby to born in the day when he or she will have the inherited aspect configurations (if that´s the case)?
I mean, the love making is nine months before the birth. How comes that they mate at the time the child will have those aspects? Could be there an explanation for that?

And...
Is there always a link or evidence of parenting between the father and the son in any of them in the natal chart?

I really have no clue and it would be awesome that you knew.

Post, please!

[Caprising]

Good question, I don't really know the answer, but have something for you to investigate. The ability to procreate lies in human chromosones, each persons cell contains 23 pairs, and in the case of a woman a pair of x chromosones and in the case of men one x and one y chromosone. The reproductive cells (female egg/male sperm) each contain only one set of chromosones, not pairs. The pairing takes place when the egg is fertilized by the sperm, the embryo thus has the 23 pairs of chromosones , but only half of them come from the mother and only half from the father. The mother having 2 x chromosones always contributes an x. The father having both an x and a y may end up contributing either one; if it is an x , the baby will be a female, if a y it will be a male. (got that mouthful?) Now when you do a prenatal chart using the solarfire version 5 you will notice that the prenatal chart is based on the lunar cycles present at the time of conception. My solarfire program has a female/male choice when using the prenatal chart selection, so one would think that the position of the moon and the nodes would possibly indicate if the baby was going to be a male or female. I recently (10 months or so ago) got the conception details off a pregnant lady whom I work with, and after entering the doctors "proposed" birth date did a prenatal to see if I match the proposed birthdate with a prenatal chart that had the same conception date as my workmate had. The closest chart was a male chart, (you get from 1 to 3 prenatal charts to select from in the prenatal section of the solarfire program) so naturally I told her that she should have a male, and as luck would have it she recently had a male, one week overdue. While this wasn't too suprising (theres a 50/50 chance of guessing correctly) I can't honestly say that this will work everytime. If and when I get 9 or 10 out of 10 "guesses" correct then I will let you know! The female fertility cycle is tied to the moon cycles, I don't know if the males contribution of the x or y chromosone is connected to the moon cycle but I'm thinking at this point that it is, because the prenatal program doesn't need the fathers birth data to estimate the differing male/female moon cycles . i hope this gives you something to chew on

[Squapius]

Hi Caprirising. Thank you for the reply.

Originally Posted by Caprirising

Now when you do a prenatal chart using the solarfire version 5 you will notice that the prenatal chart is based on the lunar cycles present at the time of conception. My solarfire program has a female/male choice when using the prenatal chart selection, so one would think that the position of the moon and the nodes would possibly indicate if the baby was going to be a male or female.

You make the prenatal chart with a program: Is the purpose of the prenatal chart to make an estimated calculation of the birth time using the time of conception based in the lunar nodes?
And why the program has this gender choices? Do the lunar nodes in the time of conception determine the sex of the child?

The doctor proposed another birth time and the male one from your astrology software was the most matching one.
Then there could be a chance that the fecundation by the male gamets were synchronized with the lunar nodes.
But I really don´t know if that´s true. The female gamet will be always be X, and its generation is tied with the lunar cycle.
Do men have some kind of cycle with the moon like women?

[Squapius]

Although that was very interesting, I still don´t know why the chart aspects are inherited.

Maybe only a few kind of aspects (involving certain planets), can be inherited.
Like with the moon, the lunar nodes or the ascendant.

Could it be related to the maturity of the man or the woman? Like a saturn transit.
Then at some point the lunar nodes have returned a couple of times and saturn reaches some place in the chart and then the man or the woman feels the need to have a child.

Or maybe there´s a wider cycle between lunar nodes and other planets that could influence the reproduction of them.

[jamiescott]

Dear Squapius and Caprising, I'd love to join your chat about this. This would have to be the most heavy subject to pick though. It touches off deep stuff, that affects our soul's and those of loved ones. I'm going to go back and look at all the stuff in here about this. This should be a interesting trip.

[Night Sky]

Hi Squapius,


I love this kind of thing.



The IC is your spot. Definitely the cusp of the 4th house is the business for your inheritance genetically, and your family roots.


What I am interested in is the planets conjunct the IC on the 4th side. As well as Ruler of the IC.


I know my family geneology goes back to Romans. I know some things about them, have Italian blood.


Moon is definitely your immediate family, how they are, the big impression that they make on you as a child.




But I do know that if you want to go back.....Further, it is the IC for the bloodline.

[Squapius]

Wow. That´s very interesting.
So, it would be necesary to track down our ancestors, and the fourth house ruler. The ruler of the 4th is the moon, right?
Then I should have to look the moon.

As for my ancestors, I got italian blood as well...

[Night Sky]

Originally Posted by Squapius

Wow. That´s very interesting.
So, it would be necesary to track down our ancestors, and the fourth house ruler. The ruler of the 4th is the moon, right?
Then I should have to look the moon.

As for my ancestors, I got italian blood as well...

Moon is only ruler of fourth if you have Cancer on the cusp.


What do you have on the cusp of the 4th Squapius?

[Squapius]

Aaaah...Then my 4th house ruler is neptune (pisces cusp).

[Squapius]

Only mars is inside my fourth house.
The way this points interact with the whole chart could be analyzed and compared with the charts of my parents.
Then I should look for indicators of parents: Father and mother in my chart.
And indicator of son in their charts.
The question is: What planets or points should I look at?

My: Mom - dad

The dad chart has no accurate ascendant (that´s not the true asc).

My chart.

[Night Sky]

Originally Posted by Squapius

Only mars is inside my fourth house.
The way this points interact with the whole chart could be analyzed and compared with the charts of my parents.
Then I should look for indicators of parents: Father and mother in my chart.
And indicator of son in their charts.
The question is: What planets or points should I look at?

My: Mom - dad

The dad chart has no accurate ascendant (that´s not the true asc).

My chart.

Ok, Your Mom, is definitely the Neptune rulership of the IC. Check out she has Mars in the 1st house. An agressive go-getting Piscean... With Neptune on the MC. She is Definitely Neptune in your chart combined with that Mars in the 4th house. Note: You chart has Mars square Neptune.

[Night Sky]

Your DAD:


Is a Saturn type.

You have Neptune in Capricorn.

He is Saturnian with Sun exact trine a Strong Aquarius Saturn.
But he is also half Neptune-Mars. He has Moon and Jupiter in the 12th house. That is a strong Neptune vibe.


That 12th house Moon is opposite Neptune: Doubles the Neptune effect. Neptune is also square his MARS.


You Mom has SATURN IN PISCES. She has Saturn in the Sign of Neptune in the 1st house. Your IC ruler: Neptune is in the sign of Saturn in the 1st house. Can you see how this works? I think it is very intriguing.

Jupiter is certainly an element in both your parents charts. But I can see clearly the Piscean rulership of Neptune through those placements.

They are combinations of Neptune-Saturn and Mars. That is the mix you have on your IC and its ruler Neptune in Capricorn.

[Squapius]

Originally Posted by NSky

Ok, Your Mom, is definitely the Neptune rulership of the IC. Check out she has Mars in the 1st house. An agressive go-getting Piscean... With Neptune on the MC. She is Definitely Neptune in your chart combined with that Mars in the 4th house. Note: You chart has Mars square Neptune.

True, true...
And did you saw her jupiter in the fourth house? I got gemini sun, mercury and moon.
So, jupiter would be asignificator of me in her chart, and her 1st house mars-midheaven neptune.

[Squapius]

Then the place where to start would be the fourth house of the person, and then you look for the rulerships that the parents make to their son´s chart.

Looking at the ruler of my fourth house:
The significator of my mother in my chart is neptune then: Strong first house with the cusp in pisces. Mars in the first and neptune in the MC.
Back to the ruler neptune:
My father has saturn trining jupiter in the 12th with his moon placed as well in the that house. Moon opposing neptune and neptune squaring mars.
I see you included the sign placement of neptune in my chart too.

[Squapius]

Chart of my sister: Sister.

[jamiescott]

Hi Squapius, I was interested why you had such an interest in this deep area of occult and astrology. Maybe here:ASELLUS AUSTRAL. With South Node, especially: With the Moon it says

'The Spirit of the Ancestors'

[Night Sky]

Yeah you want to look at sign placement of the Ruler of the IC This is extremely important.

If you want to look at yourself though your parents you would do the same but use their FIFTH house, and maybe fourth too, since fourth is home and family after all.

I do it though it is fun.


Your Mom's 5th house is at the end of Gemini.... Where is your Sun? Your Sun is exactly on her Fifth cusp. Her 5th Ruler is also Mercury: YOU are a Gemini! Ruler of Gemini is Mercury. BUT Mercury is in Pisces and Trine Neptune.... So you have Neptune on the Ascendant, making you a Neptunian Gemini. Her Mercury is conjunct Mars in Pisces.... You have Mars in 4th Square Neptune.... Fun.


Her 4th ruler is Venus in Capricorn... You are her close blood... you are Capricorn Rising. You Venus is in Taurus, which is her IC.


Dad:5th house Ruler is Venus conjunct Pluto, Uranus in Virgo and sextile to Neptune. You have Virgo on the MC with Mercury in Gemini in a YOD with Neptune and Pluto....So your inheritance from your Dad may have been your mind.



My sister has IC in Capricorn with Saturn placed in Sagittarius.

I have Sagittarius IC with Jupiter in Sagittarius.

Our Mom is Sagittarius Moon.

Our Dad has Sun semi-square Jupiter. And I suspect a Sagittarius Ascendant.


But those placements do not need to be doubted. They are high-minded, religious, travelling, optimistic, Faithful, animal-loving. Every keyword of Sagittarius and Jupiter, that's what they are, despite all the mixes and aspects which are involved, whether it is Pluto, whether it is Mars in the 4th, whether it is Neptune conjunct IC as with me.

For my sister if you take that Saturn in Sag disposit it to Jupiter in Pisces, disposit that to Neptune in Capricorn, you eventually disposit it back to Saturn in Sagittarius... It simply confirms.

[Squapius]

The fourth house (and the fifth of the parents) is the place where you can find the bloodline, so you can look at the significators of parent and child in their charts by looking at the rulership of the fourth house cusp and the interaspects between the fourth house ruler and planets placed in the fourth house.
That´s how you can keep track of the inherited aspects from child to parent.
And the human reproduction is bounded somehow to the cycles of the lunar nodes (if you make a prenatal chart you can see what gender is going to be the child with a chance of 50% of being right). But still is a very complicated calculation. I don´t know how this works yet.

The question is: Why this aspects are inherited?

Meanwhile, I should go studying the lunar nodes (I know very few things about them), because I maybe could see if I can determine what aspects are inherited from each parent, by analyzing the chart as NSky did and then doing the same with the info through the lunar nodes system.

[Squapius]

Originally Posted by NSky

Your Mom's 5th house is at the end of Gemini.... Where is your Sun? Your Sun is exactly on her Fifth cusp. Her 5th Ruler is also Mercury: YOU are a Gemini! Ruler of Gemini is Mercury. BUT Mercury is in Pisces and Trine Neptune.... So you have Neptune on the Ascendant, making you a Neptunian Gemini. Her Mercury is conjunct Mars in Pisces.... You have Mars in 4th Square Neptune.... Fun.

You are good at it XD
Me? Not so much.

[IntenseWhisper]

Too much to add here alot of info still to be gathered. I can agree totally to look at the IC and 5th. I have three kids and one more on the way (just found out)
My 5th house is ruled by Mercury -(Gemini ) and occupied by Saturn.
(responsibilities with children)
My oldest daughter has Sag here (jupiter is in Libra in1st I am a Libra) She is Virgo rising (merc)
My second daughter Has Gemini IC
so does my son -Gemini IC
The baby on the way 9 months-will be a Gemini Sun (may even have my Dads Birthday).
Also myself and daughters have kite patterns. ( pointing to either moon or mars) -my Moon is in Aries too
Myself and the two little ones have intercepted signs in 1/7 houses.
I have a Cap rising
son has Aquarius rising
daughter has Pisces rising
Noticed alot of conjunctions too, I am testing this with random charts and theres a definate increase in aspects between the family compared to any random chart. (I would show the charts but have been having trouble getting them to size? new to this will re read the thread on it)
Thank you for the above info

Iwhisper

[Squapius]

That helps to enforce the fact that there exist aspect links between the family members.
Could it be that the union of a couple (the man or the woman), was determined by the same? But it could be more of a 5th or 7th house stuff.
Though it could be the lunar nodes too.

Do the lunar nodes asociate with karma? If it is like that, I would like to know it.

Originally Posted by Jamiescott

Hi Squapius, I was interested why you had such an interest in this deep area of occult and astrology. Maybe here:ASELLUS AUSTRAL. With South Node, especially: With the Moon it says
'The Spirit of the Ancestors'

I don´t have any point close to the asellus, but this page doesn´t say anything about the south node...maybe you geve me the wrong page.

[nejispirit]

Originally Posted by Squapius

Hayo!

Many of you have seen the thread that is about your rising sign and your mother´s moon. The one that says that as long your birth was natural, then your rising sign will be your mother´s moon (Asc & mother´s moon thread).
I don´t know if that´s true, even that happens with several births, because sometimes the first child is born, but his other siblings have another ascendants even when they were born naturally like him.
And that the moon in general could represent the mother in the natal chart.

Post, please!

Well, surprisingly enough, it fits for my mother and I: she is a Virgo moon and my rising is Virgo, I was a C-section, as was my brother. My brother is a Cancer rising though, so it doesn't fit with him.

Father wise.. well.. hm.. my 10th is my Gemini house, with my MC and Chiron (conj) and my father has a Gemini moon. As far as Saturn goes, he is a Scorpio sun and my Saturn is Scorpio, in the 3rd.

Hm, well with my mother in relation to my father, she is a Virgo moon (as I stated) and an Aries rising; he is a Gemini moon with a Pisces rising. My father has really no Virgo or Aries in him, but my mother has a Scorpio Mars- her 7th is half Scorpio and his 7th is half Virgo (ooh, I see).

[Squapius]

Maybe the aspects are inherited like the genetic code, because we have been studying the aspects of my family and it seems that each parent inherited a part of theirselves to the son´s chart.
Then the question could be: Are the herency aspects a result of the selection that the parents made for making a couple?
Does a person search a lover with a chart compatible or with shared features/aspects? Does the same apply for having children?

Originally Posted by Nejispirit

Hm, well with my mother in relation to my father, she is a Virgo moon (as I stated) and an Aries rising; he is a Gemini moon with a Pisces rising. My father has really no Virgo or Aries in him, but my mother has a Scorpio Mars- her 7th is half Scorpio and his 7th is half Virgo (ooh, I see).

Hello Neji.
Please, can you post your parents natal data or their charts?
So we can see if there is this aspect harmony.
I´m going to search the right birth time of my dad later, because I can´t tell anything correctly now...

[jamiescott]

Squapius said

Then the question could be: Are the herency aspects a result of the selection that the parents made for making a couple?
Does a person search a lover with a chart compatible or with shared features/aspects? Does the same apply for having children?

I imagime if we could visualise the horoscope and the genetic code in the same dimension they would look exactly the same.

[Squapius]

It could be, if for example an expert on medicine and astrology did exams to a person and then had a natal chart with transits, he could compare all the body systems by looking at the significators of them in the chart and their aspects.
Maybe...