"Has My Boyfriend Lost Interest in Me (Sexually or Otherwise)?"

normak · #1 10-01-2008, 06:15 PM

So, I asked this question just a few minutes ago and drew this chart:

Since I don't know much about Horary, and am having an "off" day mentally, I am having trouble distinguishing which planet signifies me. In this case, would it be Saturn? Also, should I turn the chart to reflect the nature of my question (5th or 7th house)? Any thoughts on this in general? I'm not sure how to interpret this. Thanks in advance.

skywatcher1221 · #2 10-01-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by normak

So, I asked this question just a few minutes ago and drew this chart:

Since I don't know much about Horary, and am having an "off" day mentally, I am having trouble distinguishing which planet signifies me. In this case, would it be Saturn? Also, should I turn the chart to reflect the nature of my question (5th or 7th house)? Any thoughts on this in general? I'm not sure how to interpret this. Thanks in advance.

I don't think this can be read because it has a "stricture against judgement" -- the Moon is in the Via Combusta, which extends from 15 Libra to 15 Scorpio. According to horary rules this invalidates the chart. But I only dabble in horary. There are some real experts here who could probably come up with a better answer.

normak · #3 10-01-2008, 06:42 PM

Yeah, I had forgotten about the Via Combusta rule. I suppose it would make sense that the chart may represent my emotional instability. Boyfriend keeps reassuring me that he does love me and want me, etc., but I keep feeling like ending things. My boyfriend and I started our relationship when I was still with my husband; an open relationship condoned by my husband that turned into more. I left my husband a couple of months ago; things had been really mutually abusive, and I blame myself for the failure of the marriage (despite what he tells me). Now, I am in an exclusive relationship with my boyfriend. However, despite his verbal affection, I feel he has grown distant and less interested in me sexually gradually since I moved out to live on my own. Considering I'm already quite depressed over everything, my natural urge is to dump him. I don't see the point in carrying on with him; I've lost faith in love and relationships, and I don't trust anyone to not eventually hurt me. I don't have any expectations either way. I'm preparing myself to leave/lose him since it seems to hurt less to think that way. Anyway, that's the background on this situation.

archergirl · #4 10-01-2008, 06:46 PM

Via Combusta is NOT a stricture against judgement. This is an incorrect modern interpretation. The original text stresses considerations before judging a chart, and as such are simply that: things to consider.

AG

normak · #5 10-01-2008, 06:54 PM

So, if I'm to attempt to interpret this chart further, would I be represented by Venus (planet after the Moon)? I'm interpreting it to be that he is the Moon in this chart, since the Moon is the ruler of the 7th house (Cancer). Since Moon is conjuncting Venus, he is "with" me. Other than that, would my co-significator be considered to be Mercury, and his co-significator Mars? If that is the case, Mercury is in retrograde moving AWAY from Mars, signifying my urge to leave?

archergirl · #6 10-01-2008, 07:04 PM

You are Saturn, who is ruler of the 1st house; the first house will always be 'your' house in a question you ask; he is the Moon. You'll need to look at receptions between you to judge this question.

I'll have a look at this further, after a bit.

AG

skywatcher1221 · #7 10-01-2008, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by archergirl

Via Combusta is NOT a stricture against judgement. This is an incorrect modern interpretation. The original text stresses considerations before judging a chart, and as such are simply that: things to consider.

AG

Well, as I said, I only dabble in horary but in light of the additional information, it seems the "wrong" question was asked; that is, it is not the boyfriend losing interest so much as the querant having qualms.

aquarius7000 · #8 10-01-2008, 07:32 PM

Norma,

As the querent, you are signified by Saturn- sitting in the eight- anything but a good location (indicator of deep-seated fears, perhaps even jealousies/manipulation).

Since this is your boyfriend, and, as I know from your many other recent threads, the relationship is still in its fledgling stages, so I am more inclined to give him the 5th house (instead of the 7th- steady partner)- with Venus signifying him.

In the chart, Saturn & Venus don't connect (and you do feel disconnected, right). However, Venus will move forward to form a sextile to Saturn, so the spark could light again, IMO.

Moon, your co-significator (since we've given your BF the 5th house already) is doing rather poorly (shows your state of mind, or with Moon- emotions is the better word). It is via combusta- showing an unfortunate/ineffectual situation, plus in Fall in Sco (shows your desperation/distress; which made you ask this Q, & the underlying motive of the chart). That said, it is conjunct Venus (you do feel attached to him), but will soon leave Venus (him) behind and move on, breaking the conjunction.

Venus (BF) applies to Jupiter by sextile here, which is placed in your house, but is also in Fall (in Cap), so can't really give a boost to the relationship (his feelings for you).

Can't really say where this will lead to, as per the chart.

Best,

aquarius7000

normak · #9 10-01-2008, 07:40 PM

I see, that certainly makes a lot of sense. So, essentially, the chart is reflecting my personal instability in this relationship and in general, but is also demonstrating that I have the power to choose to stay with him or not. Also, the Venus/Jupiter sextile implies that he has true feelings for me, but unfortunately, they aren't enough to assuade my fears/insecurities and prevent me from ending things?

aquarius7000 · #10 10-01-2008, 07:58 PM

Quote:

I see, that certainly makes a lot of sense. So, essentially, the chart is reflecting my personal instability in this relationship and in general, but is also demonstrating that I have the power to choose to stay with him or not. Also, the Venus/Jupiter sextile implies that he has true feelings for me, but unfortunately, they aren't enough to assuade my fears/insecurities and prevent me from ending things?

Well yes, this is quite it. In horary & electional charts, the Moon is very important, like the key player in, or the heart of the chart, so to speak. It gives the horarist (if that word exists

) the feel of the pulse of the chart, as it shows the underlying motive/intention of the chart/question. If the Moon is in a bad shape, one could well be fighting a losing battle, unless perhaps all other things (significators etc) are very strong. The Moon here is in a bad shape, and the conjunction it forms to Venus will soon be over, plus its sextile is to a Jup in Fall (Jup- known for growth- is itself weak here, so not of much help).

aquarius7000

normak · #11 10-01-2008, 08:05 PM

Wow. So the chart is pretty much mirroring EXACTLY my thoughts/feelings concerning this situation.

I suppose I should take more care when I ask questions for horary charts; I have a bad habit of projecting too much, whether it be astrologically or for tarot readings. I wonder if there are natal chart indications for this habit of mine (Sun in the 8th, Sun conjunct Neptune; Sun sextile Pluto?). I also find it ironic that my natal moon is in Scorpio (as it is afflicted in this chart); boy do I know what it's like to be ruled by my extreme emotions.

Either way, I really believe that my boyfriend's feelings are true (the best way that I can) and it seems that the Venus sextile Jupiter reflects this, but it just doesn't seem to be enough for me. I feel I should give him more of a chance, but I'm afraid of being hurt. Wish I knew what would be best for me.

archergirl · #12 10-01-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

I am more inclined to give him the 5th house (instead of the 7th- steady partner)- with Venus signifying him.

There are arguments for and against this. I personally am against it, since the 5th traditionally rules things having to do with reproduction...so the 5th cannot represent an adult with whom you have a relationship, since it represents the house of children: the product of reproduction. It can, in my experience, represent things of 'pleasure', e.g. the pleasurable aspects of reproduction, if you get my drift. But assigning the 5th to a lover seems incorrect; it can indicate a love affair, or an interest in sexual matters, but not the person with whom you are getting hot and heavy.

The reason being is that the 7th house represents our mirror: the Other, the person with whom we are interacting in a relationship...and this is any relationship, not just a 'serious, committed one'...otherwise, no-one would be able to use this house unless they already had a ring around their finger and had smashed some glasses on the floor. We use the 7th to represent many things: romantic relationships, business partnerships, open enemies (with whom we also have a relationship, albeit a negative one), our opponents in sports (ditto), and of course, marriage (and divorce).

Unless another attribute is assigned to the person (he is my best friend = 11th house; she is my boss = 10th house; he is my priest = 9th house), the 7th works very well for romantic relationships where the other person is identified as 'boyfriend/girlfriend', even if it is only casual or 'unofficial'.

Venus is the natural ruler of girlfriends and sweethearts, so can also signify the querent here, and the Moon goes to Venus. We have to consider the fact that both Venus and the Moon are in really poor condition in Scorpio. I would say that the boyfriend is actually more interested in the sexual part of the relationship, than the querent as a person, judging by the receptions. There is only minor reception by term.

Just my two-penneth worth.

AG

normak · #13 10-01-2008, 08:46 PM

I would say that the boyfriend is actually more interested in the sexual part of the relationship, than the querent as a person, judging by the receptions. There is only minor reception by term.

That seems...confusing to me. If he's more interested in me sexually than romantically, then why have we been having less sex; with me being the initiator in most cases (Sorry if this goes under the heading of "TMI")? I actually feel like he doesn't want me that way lately; that he loves me but doesn't want sex with me. Maybe this is a case of me projecting my fears again?

Also, my boyfriend is an old friend of mine; we were friends for almost as long as I knew my husband.

normak · #14 10-01-2008, 09:36 PM

Oh, I wanted to add something that might clear up some confusion as to which house represents BF, 5th or 7th. Since 7th represents marriage partner, perhaps the fact that I am still married, albeit separated, and have residual feelings for husband means that he would be signified by the 7th in this case, and BF signified by the 5th (Venus), as in aquarius7000s interpretation. So, would aquarius7000s interpretation fit more closely, or would the interpretation of the 7th house signifier as my BF make more sense in this case?

cassanra · #15 10-01-2008, 09:42 PM

I suspect Saturn in the eighth tells us a lot. It maybe your fears, anxieties and loss. Lets remember that you did lose a relationship though you gained one. It might not have been great and you had ample reasons to leave but it is the loss of ideals about marriage we lose and our trust in ourself to make good choices. Give yourself time to see what you are feeling and what you need.

aquarius7000 · #16 10-01-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

I feel I should give him more of a chance, but I'm afraid of being hurt. Wish I knew what would be best for me.

Well, if I may suggest, just live & enjoy the moment Norma, and pull yourself out of that well of 'deep-seated' (eight-house) fears, just where you (Saturn) are placed in the chart. Like Cassanra says: "Give yourself time...." This is still a fledgling 'love affair', and time & trust might help it grow.

aquarius7000

archergirl · #17 10-02-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

I wanted to add something that might clear up some confusion as to which house represents BF, 5th or 7th. Since 7th represents marriage partner, perhaps the fact that I am still married, albeit separated, and have residual feelings for husband means that he would be signified by the 7th in this case, and BF signified by the 5th (Venus),

No. This isn't a question about your husband. This is a question about your boyfriend. Your boyfriend gets the 7th. I will repeat: boyfriends (and girlfriends) do NOT get the 5th. Unless they're under the legal age of consent.

AG

Just because his sex drive is waning right now doesn't mean he isn't interested in you primarily sexually. He may just not want it every day, twice a day. People have limits! Perhaps being less 'demanding' of him will give him the space to become more interested again?

jjj · #18 10-02-2008, 07:55 AM

What are your sun-moon-venus-mars signs and your bf´s ones?
Im scorpio moon too and pretty doomed in relships

,
so I just ask out of curiosity.
Your obsessed and extra emotional behaviour reflects exactly mine...
so familiar... so I think a big part here is that you have to change a bit your habits.

normak · #19 10-02-2008, 10:07 AM

Just because his sex drive is waning right now doesn't mean he isn't interested in you primarily sexually. He may just not want it every day, twice a day. People have limits! Perhaps being less 'demanding' of him will give him the space to become more interested again?

AG: I am not trying to be argumentative here, but I do find it odd that someone could be interested in me "primarily sexually" if we are only having sex every couple of weeks or so relatively early on in the relationship, and I haven't been demanding of him at all. (I just complain in my mind ;P)

I think, in this instance, human psychology must also be taken into account. If BF is only interested/primarily interested in sex, he's not going to be having it every few weeks or so, and proclaiming his love/spending every spare moment with GF in a "non-sexual" manner. He's going to only use time with GF to either have sex or talk about it, right? It just doesn't add up, which is why I am arguing the point.

Also, the reason I usually assign the boyfriend the 5th house is because of what Crystal Teague says about house significators: http://moonvalleyastrologer.com/horary_astrology.htm

And also because of this information that I found in another thread:

Astrologer Lee Lehman has an excellent series of CD's to help you learn horary astrology. I am learning from her CD on relationship horaries right now.

She uses the 5th house for lovers, and the 7th for live-in or marriage relationships.

It makes sense to me to distinguish between the two this way, because you might well be dating someone you have no intention of marrying, so the nature of your relationship would not be the same.

Try both approaches and see what works. I have found Lee's approach works.

As such, I can see my BF being represented by the 5th house, because he is not married to me or a live-in lover. We are just dating, and we don't live together nor have any plans to live together anytime soon.

What are your sun-moon-venus-mars signs and your bf´s ones?
Im scorpio moon too and pretty doomed in relships ,
so I just ask out of curiosity.
Your obsessed and extra emotional behaviour reflects exactly mine...
so familiar... so I think a big part here is that you have to change a bit your habits.

I WOULD say I'm obsessive if I spent ALL of my time this way. Unfortunately, I tend to go for a while not caring at all, then getting really paranoid and posting repeatedly for clarification on some issue. Hence, why I have not posted in about 3 to 4 weeks. Also, I am not usually like this aside from the fact that my life is in total upheaval at the moment. One tends to want things to go well when everything else is going badly, so I am sorry if I come off as obsessive. Also, the reason I post here is because I have been reading about astrology for years and I frankly just find it fascinating. But, if people seem to be irritated by my posts (which it seems they do), I can always just go back to reading posts here rather than asking my own questions.

And, I am sorry, but it unnerves me to hear that my BF is only interested in sex when the real-life situation and the elements of the horary chart do not seem to reflect that (see response above).

My Sun is Sagittarius, Moon is Scorpio, Venus is Aquarius, Mars is Libra. His Sun is Virgo, Moon is Gemini, Venus is Cancer, Mars is Scorpio.

Pardon the editing; I am trying very hard to word my responses in the best possible way, and include as much additional information as possible so that the reality of the situation can be seen, rather than just coming off as an "obsessive, desperate, emotional person who needs to change their habits." :P

jjj · #20 10-02-2008, 04:21 PM

Hey Normak,

I wrote those lines without minding at all your emotional posts here. Im contantly in an emotional turmoil myself and have been asking help from other people, so there is nothing wrong with it at all. Sorry if I sounded differently. Just wanted to say that I relate a lot to Scoprio moons...

On the basis of your Sun-Moon etc signs I find you rather compatible - your moon links nicely to his venus-mars and his moon to your love planets. The only problem is that your respective Venus-Mars do not connect well. Yours are in Air signs and his in water signs. He needs deep emotional connection coming through sex, while you can detach youself and take sex more lightly. For him sex is like a religious experience... melding into one (I have water venus-mars myself, I know

.

Having had 2 bfs with venus in Cancer I can say that Venus in Cancer craves deep one-to-one connection and these unusual circumstances under which you met do not fit with venus in Cancer at all. On the other hand, your venus in Aquarius is very much into experimental sex (had one bf with Venus in aq who spoke about threesome sex the day we met). I didn t connect with him at all.

Hoping this helps a bit.

JJJ

normak · #21 10-02-2008, 04:34 PM

JJJ,

No worries; I wasn't angry with you or anything.

I think I've been a little frustrated in general because everyone who responds to me keeps referring to my "numerous posts," when in fact I usually only post every few weeks or so, and most of the posts are usually in response to comments other people have made (I like to respond to everyone who responds to my posts because I like to show that I understand/appreciate the responses) or to give more insight into the situation. Perhaps I come off as obsessive because when I want to find out about something, I will ask as many questions as it takes and provide as much information as necessary to learn something and discover the "truth" behind any situation (maybe even my own personal motivation for asking the question in the first place). I suppose this is thanks to my Scorpio moon.

Also, some of the responses by some of the others can be a bit insensitive at times. This may be due to the fact that they are looking at the chart from a clinical perspective and excluding the native's own feelings re:their situation (not that you, particularly, have been insensitive). I tend to approach an astrological situation from the point of view of therapist, so that I can demonstrate empathy for the native's personal feelings.

On the basis of your Sun-Moon etc signs I find you rather compatible - your moon links nicely to his venus-mars and his moon to your love planets. The only problem is that your respective Venus-Mars do not connect well. Yours are in Air signs and his in water signs. He needs deep emotional connection coming through sex, while you can detach youself and take sex more lightly. For him sex is like a religious experience... melding into one (I have water venus-mars myself, I know.

I tend to like that about him. Maybe the fact that his Mars is in Scorpio and my Moon/Jupiter are both in Scorpio means that I can understand this about him?

Having had 2 bfs with venus in Cancer I can say that Venus in Cancer craves deep one-to-one connection and these unusual circumstances under which you met do not fit with venus in Cancer at all. On the other hand, your venus in Aquarius is very much into experimental sex (had one bf with Venus in aq who spoke about threesome sex the day we met). I didn t connect with him at all.

Truth be told, I'm not interested in experimental sex at all, but I do think of sex as something fun. Maybe it's because I'm so emotional that I don't relate to my own Venus sign. Also, maybe he relates to me because his Moon is Gemini (air) and my Venus is in Aquarius; Mars in Libra? When our relationship began, I was with my husband, but there was no "threesome" aspect to my relationship with BF. We started our own relationship, excluding my husband, who simply encouraged me to have the separate relationship and was turned on by the prospect. He had actually been the one to initially encourage me to look "outside" our marriage for reasons that I still don't understand. I felt wrong about the whole situation and ended up falling for BF, hence the separation. Strange beginnings, to be sure, but I suppose I don't especially relate to the "unorthodox" sexual idealogy of Venus in Aquarius.

Thanks so much for your response.

archergirl · #22 10-02-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

AG: I am not trying to be argumentative here, but I do find it odd that someone could be interested in me "primarily sexually" if we are only having sex every couple of weeks or so relatively early on in the relationship, and I haven't been demanding of him at all. (I just complain in my mind ;P)

And I'm not trying to be insensitive; it's just that your question was about whether he had gone off you, and the answer is 'not really', but the chart says that his interest in you is primarily sexual, since there is no other significant reception between your main significators. The Moon and Saturn are not natural lovers.

As to Lee Lehman and others: yes, you do need to find your own preferences...but I have issues with some of the things Lehman uses, and using the 5th house to represent a lover is one of them. IMO (and many others) Lehman misses the subtlety of house assignments, looking at it like this. For example: many people assign cars to the 3rd house. This is switching the form (car= 2nd house) for the function (making journeys, going from A to B = 3rd house).

Likewise, using the 5th to represent a person is mistaking the function (a sexual relationship = 5th house) with the form (the lover = 7th house).

Although I am still a student and by no means do I consider myself the acme of astrological knowledge, I have been doing horaries for many years, and have never, I mean never, found the 5th house to be an accurate description of a person...it inevitably describes the 'state' of romance, but not the romancer.

But I am thinking that most people will see in their charts, the things they want to see. All of us are guilty of this.

You have to keep in mind, in your natal chart your Moon, Venus, and Mars are all detrimented or in fall. The expressions of these parts of your personality will not be so easy for you to 'get a handle on'...and your BFs expression of sexuality is very, very different from yours, according to his chart. It may be that the differences between you are finally coming to light; the fantasy of a 3rd party love affair is now defunct, and reality is setting in. How he is as a Being, and how you interact due to your synastry, are two different things, and must be considered. Synastry only goes so far...there has to be some basic understanding of one another as an individual as well, otherwise the synastry can't help.

AG

normak · #23 10-02-2008, 06:48 PM

AG: So, given these factors (that he only wants me for sex; which still doesn't seem to add up in light of his behavior towards me), are there indications in your point of view, that I shouldn't trust him or should abandon the relationship entirely? I want to continue with him, and I want to believe that he loves me (as he says he does), but if what you say that the horary chart shows is true, I can't trust him and will inevitably be hurt. Essentially, he is lying when he says he loves me and spends time with me if he is only interested in me for sex. So, all of these factors taken into account, would it be wise to "just forget about things?" I really don't have the energy and motivation to continue a relationship if the universe is telling me that I can't trust the person I'm with or that I will be inevitably hurt; I'd rather not waste my time.

For interest's sake, here is his natal chart:

archergirl · #24 10-02-2008, 07:01 PM

I think you worry about it far too much and it's unhealthy, normak. If he says he loves you and has given you no real reason to think otherwise (other than going off sex), why would you want to throw out the baby with the bathwater? He's still around? He's still nice to you? He still rubs your feet? What are you worried about?

I've been married for 13 years, and believe me, the sex drops off quickly and then there are long, long periods without it...Mr. Archergirl and I went without sex for two years when the marriage was troubled. If you have a real relationship and not just a sexual one, you'll still enjoy one another even if you aren't getting it on every day. If you don't have a real relationship, then there will be nothing left for you to enjoy about one another if the sex drops off. It's that simple. That you are having such a hard time with this suggests that maybe you aren't sure of the difference...and I mean that in the gentlest sort of way. Perhaps it would be beneficial for you to step away and examine your beliefs (and fears) about this. If he's a good man, he'll stick by you while you work it out for yourself.

AG

tikana · #25 10-02-2008, 07:06 PM

AG

just because a man says he loves her does not mean that he does.
out of my own experience
lol

sex is not everything in relationship actually it is icing on a cake

where is horary chart? everything is expired

cheers
Tik