Global Financial System on the Brink

[jamiescott]

Does anyone have any imput on an astrological reason for this crisis, potentially, the biggest thing effecting us collectively in our lifetime so far? I have only had a quick glance at the Ephemeris so far, all I have come up with is Saturn opposing Uranus, that's still 5 degrees away. What methods would one use to analyse this question?

Jamie

[RayAustin]

Originally Posted by jamiescott

Does anyone have any imput on an astrological reason for this crisis, potentially, the biggest thing effecting us collectively in our lifetime so far? I have only had a quick glance at the Ephemeris so far, all I have come up with is Saturn opposing Uranus, that's still 5 degrees away. What methods would one use to analyse this question?

Jamie

I was looking at a very long and astrological article, that was saying why, I'll try to pull it up!

[RayAustin]

Originally Posted by ra_divinington

I was looking at a very long and astrological article, that was saying why, I'll try to pull it up!

Found it!

http://www.astropro.com/forecast/predict/2008-all.html

Though it tends to revolve around us a lot.

[jamiescott]

be of good cheer and sound mind: reduce debt, stock up on essential commodities and other productive assets. Remember that the vast majority of people survived the last Great Depression. The lower your debt, the higher your stockpiles and the broader your network, the greater the odds that you’ll get through the current crisis too. Conversely, plunging ahead with "business as usual" is a prescription for certain disaster. Buy a house? Court a disaster. Take out a loan? Why not grab an anvil and jump off a bridge? I realize we can’t stop living and wait for things to get sorted out. But surely we can realize we’re in a hole, and at least stop digging.

from:
http://www.astropro.com/forecast/predict/2008-09.html

Hey ra-divinington, can you lend me some money so I can buy some gold?

Jamiescott.

[Vista]

I suggest you all read the article the "Grand Cross and The Great Depression" By Robert Gover. http://www.robertgover.com/

He is an economic astrologer. His other articles are very interesting too.
Vista

[jamiescott]

It is because the next Uranus-Pluto square is due to come within orb around mid-2008 that I predict the coming great depression will be evident by then. It will begin with trouble in the stock markets and financial system and spread to impact the whole economy. Stock markets can crash without taking down the whole economy--if they recover reasonably soon after a crash. What I look for, based on astrological markers coinciding with past crashes, is a series of crashes beginning in late 2006 and climaxing in the summer and autumn of 2008. This series of crashes is likely to trigger a transformation of the world's monetary system. It is shaky now, with the dollar poised to be replaced by the euro as the world's currency of choice.

From http://www.robertgover.com/

Thanks Vista, have you got some cash for me too?

Jamiescott

[EJ53]

This thread by Theo might add something here :-

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=11406

EJ

[LionKing]

Yea... I said something to that fact a few days back. I noticed that the New Moon was in Virgo with Sat in it's early side. Knowing that Sat is in trine with Jupiter something was going to happen. Jupiter left retro earlier this month. Then like what is taught... New Moon gave it's promise in the Full Moon... Banks, Foreclosures, Stocks, list goes on... Like I have read Jupiter and Saturn are your business planets. I think I and everyone else just learned a lesson. V/r LionKing

[Culpeper]

Eclipse charts are critical for predicting and evaluating any kind of crisis. The prediction section of Tetrabiblos by Ptolemy is the primary source for this. The last two lunar eclipses have pointed directly at this current financial mess. I have posted in several other threads about it.

There may have been an objection raised that the last eclipse did not effect the USA because it was not observed there. The awkward Robbins translation of Ptolemy seems to say this, but even there you will read of several alternatives. The Greeks will not leave you with a dilemma of logic.

Examining eclipse charts for many years, I have found that if the eclipse occurs in a sign signifying the country or if it occurs in a sign where one of the lights was located at the time of founding, there will be an effect even if the eclipse is not visible. The August 2008 lunar eclipse was in the same degrees of Aquarius that the Moon transited on 4 July 1776; it is very much connected to the USA although not observed there.

When interpreting these charts you must use mundane house meanings. The meanings from natal astrology are similar but will not give you a good delineation. Perhaps next week when I have time I will write a predictive post using coming eclipses.

[RayAustin]

Originally Posted by jamiescott

from:
http://www.astropro.com/forecast/predict/2008-09.html

Hey ra-divinington, can you lend me some money so I can buy some gold?

Jamiescott.

Haha. That article is unfortunate though, for a person of my situation--and lots of the many teenagers and twenty somethings and future college students and present graduating that graduate in debt! If we are not rich, we almost have no choice but to sign loans that will handicap us for the next few years of our life... I already ******* that part up, so I'm counting on divine providence to get me out of it... Thankfully I'm getting a high paying job soon that will help me out while I prepare to go back to college.. Maybe thats the jovian luck..

Also I can't imagine the dollar being replaced by euro, that would be legendarily humiliating to Americans, and extremely unlikely it would be adopted, at least by a republican president I think. It would be a massive wake up call.. I can see too many people protesting against it though.

[jamiescott]

I've heard that the USA and Australia have the highest debt per capita in the world. Who is lending us the money we can't pay back?
Jamiescott

[gesso]

surely pluto entering capricorn is having some influence over the transformation of the markets?

[RayAustin]

Originally Posted by jamiescott

I've heard that the USA and Australia have the highest debt per capita in the world. Who is lending us the money we can't pay back?
Jamiescott

the faulty banks.

[Inside Out Orange]

Originally Posted by jamiescott

I've heard that the USA and Australia have the highest debt per capita in the world. Who is lending us the money we can't pay back?
Jamiescott

From what I read yesterday, it is your children and their children ...

[Inside Out Orange]

Originally Posted by gesso

surely pluto entering capricorn is having some influence over the transformation of the markets?

From a UK perspective, my feeling is that the years while Pluto has been in Sagitarius we have seen big inflation of the housing market (properties trebling in value while inflation has been about 2-3%); we've seen fat cat CEOs of companies being overpaid; all the financial accounting scandals.

It seems to me that Pluto in Capricorn will be levelling that, and probably tightening up even further.

[jamiescott]

For anyone interested in Consteallation rulerships:

Currency = Argo Navis, Eridanus, Leo, Corona Borealis.
Trade = Argo Navis, Eridanus, Libra.
Oil = Cygnus, Pisces.
Gold = Draco.
Stock Exchange = Leo, Pisces.

[Derestanne]

I had forecast more "Enron-Like" Scandals for 2008 (see my Website http://www.freewebs.com/nsmeditation ). I would say that what is happening right now qualifies perfectly as an "Enron-Like Scandal". While we're on the subject, count me in with all the voices who are saying that we do not need more Welfare for the Rich on Wall Street!

I am telling all of my most well to do Clients that unless they want to risk everything, the best course of action is to procrastinate - do nothing at all until Mercury goes direct after October 15th. I fully expect the Markets to be madhouses until then!

I credit the Jupiter - Pluto Conjunction in Capricorn for this situation. Big business attempts to expand while in the contracting sign of Capricorn. It is a bad year for excesses and greed and the crisis will continue for now.

[jamiescott]

Oh, I just spent what little savings I had buying Lihir Gold Limited at $2.75 per share. Fingers crossed!

[gesso]

What is happening now is a 'revealing' of the excesses that have gone on in the recent past. Accountability. Things are being shown for what they are...down to the truth etc.
These arent new issues/scandals etc...i like what i read on tribe.net about this...
"pluto in capricorn= the economy wears no clothes"

[BobZemco]

Originally Posted by gesso

surely pluto entering capricorn is having some influence over the transformation of the markets?

Yes, that's true. I have economic data going back to the 13th Century.

I'm not sure what you mean by "markets" though. The media is very ambiguous in the use of its terms which drives me up a wall. It is incorrect to say "inflation" because there are 4 (actually 5) different types of inflation. Some of you might say "big deal" but it is a big deal.

Each form of inflation has its own unique cause and it logically follows that it has its own unique solution. If it's Wage Inflation, then the best course of action is Wage & Price Freezes. That's what FDR did and that's what Nixon did and it worked (although I don't agree with it I don't have an alternative solution either). Are rising wages driving up the prices of goods and services? No way. So we know it isn't Wage Inflation.

Fiscal Inflation would have driven up the price of cars 40 years ago, but not today, but it is responsible for houses being over-valued, still that's a minor concern in the grand scheme of things.

Currency Inflation isn't an issue right now, and it can be easily managed, except for special cases.

The problem now is Cost Inflation. The solution is for consumers to stop consuming, but when your economy is 72% consumer spending, a reduction in consumption results in immediate and severe recession.

If you understand that, then you understand how important it is for the US to be in Iraq and how the US cannot fail. If it does, it will never be able to position itself to block both Currency and Cost Inflation in the future which will destroy the US (I'm predicting the US will be out-maneuvered by China and fail).

If you're talking about the stock markets, nobody really cares, unless you're an investor. No stock market crash has ever caused a recession/depression in the US.

In fact, the US had two major depressions (one of them was called the "Great Depression") before stock markets ever existed in the US.

If you're talking about the commodity markets, yes Pluto in Capricorn wrecks havoc. I suspect it has to do with Capricorn being cardinal and passive combined with the transformative and sometmes destructive action of Pluto. Because it's in the US 2nd House, in addition to stripping wealth, it will radically alter people's values and belief system.

We saw this in the 1760s. It's global only in the sense that more than one country is affected, and always those with Capricorn on the 2/8 Axis. So Russia had problems but Prussia did not. Some of the German city states and principalities did, some didn't. Some of the Italian city-states did, some didn't. England did but France didn't. The Netherlands was affected only slightly. Spain and Portugal did fairly well throughout the whole thing.

We'll see the same thing again. For every country affected, there'll be one or two that aren't. The US will be affected until Pluto moves into the 3rd House in 2024/2025.

[skywatcher1221]

Originally Posted by Vista

I suggest you all read the article the "Grand Cross and The Great Depression" By Robert Gover. http://www.robertgover.com/

He is an economic astrologer. His other articles are very interesting too.
Vista

Thanks for this link -- very informative! According to him, the astrological ingredients are present with Uranus and Saturn activating the U.S. Mars-Neptune square. Pluto's transit through the U.S. 2nd House (Sag rising chart) adds another drastic element: we could see a replay of the Great Depression.

[jamiescott]

I agree Skywatcher, maybe worse.

[Theo]

Originally Posted by jamiescott

Does anyone have any imput on an astrological reason for this crisis, potentially, the biggest thing effecting us collectively in our lifetime so far? I have only had a quick glance at the Ephemeris so far, all I have come up with is Saturn opposing Uranus, that's still 5 degrees away. What methods would one use to analyse this question?

Jamie

Hi Jamie. Mundane methods are best used. The outer planets, and the transits of the Dragon's Head and Tail over decades leading to this time. The orb between Saturn's opposition to Uranus is already active, as the orb can be as wide as 12 degrees (or more) depending on the sign and angle. This financial crisis started back in the 1980s with deregulation, and reflects the transit of Saturn in particular. However, the current crisis has much to do with the Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in Taurus, and Saturn's ingress into Cancer (sign of the house) in 2003.

Saturn's transit through Cancer, Leo, and now Virgo is reflective of the wild speculation in financial markets. Last year's Saturn-Neptune opposition was clearly a role player, as was the Jupiter-Saturn fire trine of 2007, which resulted in the Panics of 2007 and 2008.

Uranus' transit is also playing a role. The last time Uranus was in Pisces was in the 1920s, just prior to the Great Depression when Uranus transited Aries in the 1930s. Uranus is ending a period it began in 1928 which closes in 2011 when it remains in tropical Aries. These are major times for the world, and great changes and mutations are ahead for the whole planet in the new decade just ahead.

The coming transit of Jupiter in Aquarius, Pisces, Aries and Taurus from 2009 to 2012 will hold some hope for the world's economy, and I strongly advise those reading this to make economic and life plans using the positive transits of these years to prepare for the more difficult years of the mid-2010s, which features inflation, and a lowered standard of living for millions of people considering the transits of Saturn's coming transit in Scorpio and Sagittarius from 2013-2018 and the long-running Uranus-Pluto square of the 2010s.

This makes the next four (4) years critical for many people to make adjustments, and to look for opportunities to form into positive groups where bartering, and good neighbors are essential. Expect to adjust to being around people of positive, creative and positive interests. This will greatly help to offset the more harder transits ~ especially of the outer planets ~ during most of the next decade of the 2010s.

[Inside Out Orange]

Originally Posted by gesso

What is happening now is a 'revealing' of the excesses that have gone on in the recent past. Accountability. Things are being shown for what they are...down to the truth etc.
These arent new issues/scandals etc...i like what i read on tribe.net about this...
"pluto in capricorn= the economy wears no clothes"

I agree. The 'markets' have been excessive over the past 10 years. Everything is overpriced. Pluto in Capricorn is just getting rid of that excess. However I think it will then put further squeeze on to the point were things to do get to the bare bones. I believe it is the nature of Capricorn to be limited and risk-averse beyond the norm.

Take the UK housing market as an example. In 1995, at the bottom of the market, average house price was about £60,000. If you did a simple increase at 5% today you'd expect that house to be worth about £120,000. Reality is that at the top of the market last year it was more like £180,000. That's 50% extra.

Why did it happen? Predominantly because banks and other lenders looking to make big profits allowed borrowers to take out bigger and bigger mortgages. In the past they would never have allowed more than 3.5times salary; I know of people with 6-times mortgages. That was fine while interest rates were low, but now they're going up and people are threaten with repayments or no-one wanting to buy their homes they are scared and looking for someone to help them. Pluto in Capricorn is beginning to bring that accountability.

Additionally estate agents urged homeowners to push up their prices (to give them more fees) and the homeowners would theoretically be able to buy a bigger house with their greater equity. Again these groups of people are being hit for their excesses. For not being willing to say "No".

What seems to be forgotten is all the first time buyers who could not afford to buy homes. It is in their interest to see house prices fall. And the small businesses that have exercised good business practice deserve their share of the large corporates business if those fail. Yet there is clamour for government bailouts. We seem to want to have a capitalist economy that is only built on high market prices. The true principle is that everything has its rightful price and the market will determine it.

Interestingly I saw this article on BBC this morning ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7635327.stm ... that says France is not being affected by credit crunch. They have retained their accountability.

[Hades]

Originally Posted by jamiescott

Does anyone have any imput on an astrological reason for this crisis, potentially, the biggest thing effecting us collectively in our lifetime so far? I have only had a quick glance at the Ephemeris so far, all I have come up with is Saturn opposing Uranus, that's still 5 degrees away. What methods would one use to analyse this question?

Jamie

this thread needs some intense discussion. the uranus opposition to saturn was all i could see as well which makes me wonder why this alignment is so much more debilitating than the saturn trine jupiter in earth signs which is also happening... it doesnt make much sense...

maybe this is a good thing? in the long run...