Having a baby- any suggestions?

[Camilla2000]

Hello.
My due date is the 12'th of September. I am a Taurus, Virgo rising Pisces moon. The dad is a Pisces, Gemini moon, sag rising. Any suggestions as to when a good birth date would be for the baby, If I have any influence on this at all?

It's a boy.

[archergirl]

A good birth date is whenever your body decides that the baby is cooked enough to come out and starts releasing the required hormones to start the process. I am quite against elective caesarians, if that is what you are suggesting; Nature in her splendour will usually pick the best day without any interference from well-meaning but misinformed human beings! In theory, you will love your child regardless of whether your signs all match compatibly.

AG

[Radu]

Electional astrology is NOT to be used for scheduling the birth of one's child. I know - it's so tempting for people with knowledge of astrology to try to play the gods, but really, that is not right. Doing that will allegedly only burden your karma with all the experiences your child's soul should have lived and couldn't live because of YOU! Don't get me wrong, I'm trying to point out the that this is not an insignificant thing to play with, but a sacred science we should study and practice with the utmost respect and reverence towards to unseen forces of the universe.

[astro.teacher]

Unfortunately it is not that easy. Any birth time that happens, will be the predefined birthtime of the child, not a moment sooner or later. Go with nature and you shouldnt have to worry about a thing. Although record that time! It can be very instrumental in guiding your child towards advancing in life by putting he or she on the path that is given to them through Astrology. Good luck and congrats!

[AquariusT]

Originally Posted by Radu

Electional astrology is NOT to be used for scheduling the birth of one's child.

Wth not?? I know quite a few people that did this! One astrologer I know who is much older than I, has 4 very successful children! Most of the women astrologers I know DO do this. They all chat about it at meetings and emails. Are you a man Radu?

I am not promoting to the Op that she have a c section or anything, but we can certainly plan pregnancies for successful births. And if an induction or c section is planned then she certainly can pick the time!


I bet you have the baby on the 13th or 14th with the pisces moon or the 15th before 530 PM EDT Full Moon. I don't know your charts, this is a guess.

BTW whatever the ascendent is is what the moon was in when you conceived. Emily Faugno taught me this and it was absolutely correct in my own chart, and with many charts that I have done. I know your thinking no one can possibly know when they had sex or got pregnant but some people do, and some astrologers note the time and date.

OP, did you note the day you conceived? That would help.

Congrats and have a safe and healthy delivery!!!

[Radu]

Choosing a soul's birth moment is an abuse of power, as you decide on that person's life evolution, without person's agreement.
It's also an abuse against God and the Divine order of the universe, similar to fallen angels decision to play the gods as well.

Astrologers should be more wise than that.

[astro.teacher]

Please people, lets keep this debate Astrologically related. The simple fact is that the world is controled over by Astrology (to what degree is debated but its safe to say in this case it is). This means, when you get pregnant, there were favourable Astrological occurances which allowed you to conceive at that very moment. If you Nativity promises prolificacy, then these oppertunities will be more bountiful and you will be able to get pregnant quite easily (and often). However if multiple children is not promised by your Nativity, your chances of conceiving become smaller and you will not get pregnant until a very benevolent occurance happens, when nature permits such a event to occur. This same factor goes for the birth of the child. When time permits, it will come out. It doesnt matter if you have a C-section or any other methods of removing the child "prematurely" it was supposed to come out at the time it comes out.

I will say however, the best times to have children are when the Sun is posited in Aries, this promises great success to children, especially if they be born by day and at Noon. That is one of the most favourable times to give birth.

[Radu]

Learning astrology and seeing that this actually works makes one feel in the possession of a secret way to manipulate the universe. For instance, one can imagine that he/she can improve a yet unborn child's life destiny by manipulating the birth moment. Of course, to a certain point, astrology works, and the result can be seen: "One astrologer I know who is much older than I, has 4 very successful children!".

Fallen angels are, in my understanding, angels that doubted God's divine order, challenged the God's supremacy over the universe and abused the free will given to them by embarking on the task to fix the universe, where, in their view, God has failed.

Similarly, a person choosing astrologically for her baby a birth moment to allow him to "reach success" in life, is a person that distrusts God that the child's soul has been given the best possible birth chart in order to evolve and therefore feels the need to "fix" the birth chart.

I think that every birth chart is perfect as it fits in a perfect way the soul's needs of life experiences, be they part of karma or dharma.

Astrology is just a part of the spiritual sciences, and there should no doubt among astrologers on the different soul missions known as different incarnations, as no other spiritual system can explain the way astrology works.

So, given the above, I stick to the original statement that "the astrologers should be more wise than that", meaning that practicing astrology not integrated in a more universal spiritual perspective on life is like driving a car without any idea of the road code: it's not only illegal, but it will also eventually lead to a car crash.

[astro.teacher]

Similarly, a person choosing astrologically for her baby a birth moment to allow him to "reach success" in life, is a person that distrusts God

Im sorry but doesnt this argument complete devalue the entire field of Astrology then? If we are to trust and rely on God and his path for us, what is the use for Astrology? WHy must we look at our own paths (Nativities)? Why ask questions about our future (Horary)?, why do things at a certain time for better results (Electional), unless we distrust Gods will? If we have full trust in Gods will, then why should we practice Astrology at all?

[Radu]

Because we are given the start in life, and the general mission to fulfill, but not the way to get there, which is for us to figure out.

Astrology is one of the ways to figure out the right decisions in life or God's will for us.

[astro.teacher]

What would you like explained?

[astro.teacher]

Ill assume you are talking about my reference for the best time to give birth? If you are, I stated this because the Sun is the giver of life, success and honor. When the Sun is placed in Aries, he is not only in his exaltation, but also Triplicity (and possibly Face). Aries is also the sign of life (being associated with the spring time). Being the Sun's exaltation, it is the highest point it will reach in the Heavens during its cycle through the Zodiac. If the child is born at noon, it will place this glorious body promising honor, dignity, and wealth in the Midheaven, and conjunct to the cusp. This again is a massively benevolent location and promises great dignity to be bestowed upon the child. The Midheaven is the highest point in Heaven therefore a child born at noon, while the Sun is in Aries, it will obtain glory and be rised up in some way.

[pallas]

Maybe... it is the child's karma to have a mother that PICKs the birthday..
but no matter which way it turns out..I bet the "time" will line up
for "the house placement" to be whatever the child was intended
to be by Providence...

It would be very arrogant of us to think that we could have that
much impact...these things are decided well before the birth and not
by US, but by the higher powers and laws of the universe. This
soul has made the choice...what will be will be, with our help or
without it.

We are not here to lay any guilt on another..we have parents
a plenty doing that for us as well as ourselves. No one here
has any "real" power other than to give our tiny opinions
on the great workings of the universe...
We can only follow our own chart, our own fears, our own
beliefs. With the knowledge that we have, it surprises me
that an arguement even insued at all....I guess we're not
so far along the spiritual path after all..huh?

[Radu]

Indeed, there is no way to know for sure how are things "supposed" to be, election or not (unless of we run a horary chart for that question of course ).

Also, as you said, we are not here (on the forum, that is) to to lay any guilt on another, but we ARE here to deepen are understanding of astrology (both practical techniques and theoretical concepts).

Understanding the ethical/spiritual limits of the practice of astrology is of foremost importance. Life and death are natural events beyond our reach, we are not their masters, and we should not decide on them. Using astrology to schedule the birth of a child, a suicide or any malevolent act are not ethical uses of astrology.

It is said that Hitler used an astrologer to help him pursue his plans. Should I assume from your message, that you endorse this use of astrology also, given that probably the Providence intended the Jews and other people to live their tragedy, due to their karma? So then the astrologer helping Hitler was just giving his "tiny opinions on the great workings of the universe"?

I just read in a French newspaper about a blind man who drove a car after having drank alcoholic beverages with a friend.
http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/20...en-voiture.php
Using astrology is like driving the car, but the astrologer would better not be blind or drunk.

This is from Lee Lehman's website:

What kinds of events are not appropriate for electional astrology?

Time to give birth to a child by caesarian section (except perhaps in general terms), timing to avoid getting caught at illegal acts, time to commit suicide, or the time for any trivial or ephemeral event.

[EJ53]

No matter what Camilla decides here, I trust God to ensure that this child will be born at the right time/in accordance with the universal plan - but believe the true meaning of "freewill" is to choose to follow that plan rather our own desires. Thus, astrology should be used to reveal the child's planned role/destiny after birth rather than attempting to determine or interfere with it in any way.

What will be will be - but that does not mean astrologers are not ethically responsible for trying to ensure that what is intended to happen does happen. However, the ethics of Germany's WWII astrologer must be judged against whether or not he believed Hitler was acting in accordance with the universal plan - even if we ourselves believe otherwise. Despite always acting ethically and according to our conscience, we must never close our minds to the fact that we might be following the wrong path/beliefs.

EJ

[archergirl]

As the mother of two kids, I am vehemently against elective caesarian as a matter of 'convenience' for the mother, in order to ostensibly give birth to a more astrologically 'perfect' child: one that fits with the mother's Taurus sun and the father's Pisces sun. This, IMO, is the acme of self-centredness...why should a child be born according to the mother's whim, in order to fit into the parent's idea of what will be most compatible (read: easiest to deal with)? Look at Sean Lennon: Yoko Ono forced him to be born on John's birthday...why? And has it helped him, actually? I doubt he would think so.

If the birth were an emergency we could make concessions...but making a baby come out before it is naturally ready to emerge is not only unhealthy for the baby, but expresses a certain unhealthiness in the parents as well. If there is no medical need for the child to be born at a specific time, why would anyone want to do it? Caesarians, I will remind you, are a form of serious surgery, with serious repercussions if things go wrong...and they do go wrong.

Astro.teacher:

the best times to have children are when the Sun is posited in Aries, this promises great success to children, especially if they be born by day and at Noon.

A reason to doubt natal astrology: my mother is an Aries born at noon. There is no doubt she has been successful financially. Emotionally and as a parent, she is an absolute disaster, so broad generalities about the benefits of being born under a particular sign should be avoided whenever possible.

AG

[pallas]

Originally Posted by Radu

Indeed, there is no way to know for sure how are things "supposed" to be, election or not (unless of we run a horary chart for that question of course ).

Also, as you said, we are not here (on the forum, that is) to to lay any guilt on another, but we ARE here to deepen are understanding of astrology (both practical techniques and theoretical concepts).

Understanding the ethical/spiritual limits of the practice of astrology is of foremost importance. Life and death are natural events beyond our reach, we are not their masters, and we should not decide on them. Using astrology to schedule the birth of a child, a suicide or any malevolent act are not ethical uses of astrology.

It is said that Hitler used an astrologer to help him pursue his plans. Should I assume from your message, that you endorse this use of astrology also, given that probably the Providence intended the Jews and other people to live their tragedy, due to their karma? So then the astrologer helping Hitler was just giving his "tiny opinions on the great workings of the universe"?

I just read in a French newspaper about a blind man who drove a car after having drank alcoholic beverages with a friend.
http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/20...en-voiture.php
Using astrology is like driving the car, but the astrologer would better not be blind or drunk.

This is from Lee Lehman's website:

My referencing "our tiny opinions" was meant to give a scope as to our
over all influence on the big picture, not to give credance to Hitler or his use
of Astrology and the what you call the "Karma of the Jews".
His use of Astrology didn't dictate (sorry about the pun) the
extertmination of the Jews...that horrific aspect was ALREADY in
his chart. Someone was definetly going to pay someway. And it wasn't just the Jews who suffered, many other including Christians,
homosexuals and gypsies were caught between the gears of his
grinding personality, along with the rest of that generation who had
to do battle.
But he needed the rest of the world to be at a partiuclar point in society in order for him to be able to impliment those characteristics to their hideous global conclusion, other wise, how do we know it wouldn't have play out through that 7th house in personal relationships only?...

Other things in the world had to be ripe for his ascention. And is was interesting that Winston Churchill was supplied to be his anti-thesis..both
had very difficult childhoods and both were Libra risings. Winston
had his personal short comings with the drink, but was able to rise
above his difficulties, were Hitler wallowed in them and blamed others
at every chance available...Free Will is the key...the influences are
given to us, what we CHOOSE to do with them is up to US.

The plan is already there, but exactly how these things play out
if out of our hands. Being students of Astrology allow us to
see beyond the surface of the events of our lives and that is a
great and wonderful gift, but we are only spectators.
So enjoy the show folks.
Key note:
I had two ceasarians, but not by choice...they were done
when it was time ..and to prove this point...my first was
after 27 hours of labor, child in jeapordy. My second was to be a
scheduled one.Because of my condition I couldn't have
natural childbirth..it was close to my birthday..doctor asked about if
that particular date was ok with me..I said no..I felt the child
should have her own particular date so another was set...needless to say I went into labor 10 days earlier than my scheduled time..so the universe took care of the choice and the time and date of the birth.

[EJ53]

Originally Posted by pallas

Maybe... it is the child's karma to have a mother that PICKs the birthday....these things are decided well before the birth and not
by US, but by the higher powers and laws of the universe. This
soul has made the choice...what will be will be, with our help or
without it.....

Because of our own beliefs and conditioning, we may not like this - but none of us can deny that it may be true.

What is meant to be will be - we can change nothing/no-one but ourselves.

EJ

[pallas]

EJ

I like your sayings at the bottom of your post...very inciteful

[EJ53]

Originally Posted by pallas

EJ

I like your sayings at the bottom of your post...very inciteful

Thanks, Pallas. I like the way you make your points.

EJ

[astro.teacher]

A reason to doubt natal astrology: my mother is an Aries born at noon. There is no doubt she has been successful financially. Emotionally and as a parent, she is an absolute disaster, so broad generalities about the benefits of being born under a particular sign should be avoided whenever possible.

I never suggested it had to do with gaining emotional stability (as you will see in my further post how it is purely for glory, achievement and honor). I never once said that being born in Aries at noon would produce a "perfect" child. I simply said that for honor, that was the first place to look. These are not "broad generalities" either, they are a singular, and very popular occurance to look for when giving birth (which I believe go back to Ptolemy - although dont quote me). This has nothing to do with "being born under Aries will give this, being born under Taurus will give this" and I think you would know me and my posts enough to know I am very much against such generalities.

[aquarius7000]

Hi All,

Not being able to hold my thoughts, on this subject, back any longer, I'd like to share them with you. I think, and I’d like to purport by using the adverb ‘unintentionally’, but I feel that we might, at times, be tempted to sort of ‘misuse’ Astrology, as we perhaps get carried away with the power its knowledge gives us. Let me please, at this point of the post itself, make known that this post is my mind-pad expressing simply my thoughts on this issue, and absolutely not meant to challenge, defy or refute any opinions that have been expressed here already.

IMO, it is important to remember that Astrology should not be used as some mathematical formula to calculatingly arrive at a desired result ‘X’, whereby, and let this be said, the nature of ‘X’ is of cardinal importance. An example of this would be, say, if we were using Astrology to find out the best date for a job interview, or even getting married say on a new moon date (which is said to mark a new and auspicious beginning), it is different than trying to find the best zodiac date to bring a new life into the world, whereby we are ‘knowingly’ and ‘intentionally’ if not denying, at least impeding nature to take its normal course of growth and ‘completeness’. Though the underlying idea here might seem the same, but does the end equally justify the means in all the aforementioned cases, and what is the degree of necessity involved to use those ‘calculated’ means in all those cases? Let it be understood that in all the above examples, the ‘doer’ has the best interest, of those that will be directly affected by his/her decision, at heart. I am, nonetheless, inclined to believe that providence or nature (call it what you will) will, under all circumstances have its way, and, even if the natural course is tampered with, then that is just another circumstance that had to occur before the outcome is achieved (ie the baby is born); the doer may be seen as the ‘tool’ to carry out the task; and the fact that the infant 'thus' begins his life in a neo-natal incubator - the infant’s karma. Having said that, the thought, however, of ‘intentionally’ having landed the infant in that incubator (the reason being known), when it could have been otherwise, does seem fairly sinister, or at least gross. We can also look at it this way:- what was the motivating factor to have had an elective caesarian –a) a desired solar and/or lunar placement in a 360° astrological wheel because of the ‘supposed’ qualities this placement ‘may’ impart, or b) say, trying to save a life (mother’s or child’s)? If a) is the case, then firstly, aren’t we gambling for pretty high stakes here, and how sure-shot is that guarantee that that gamble gives us – will the child be just as independent or genius-minded as that solar placement of Aquarius ‘promises’? Secondly, is that all the trust that we have in our own abilities - how we could, as parents, raise and groom the child to become into the human being we would like him to be (regardless of the compassion the Pisces Moon might impart to him, or the achiever the Aries Sun perhaps might make out of him).

To Camilla, I am sure you had not expected such a rich and engrossing discussion on this thread as a response to your simple question, but please try to simply take this as an interesting topic to which we all are actively brainstorming, perhaps even debating a bit. All the best to you for the delivery.

aquarius7000

[astro.teacher]

Jerry,

If you read the foregoing posts, I have already explained this to you.

[pallas]

If the situation is that a caesarian is called for (as in my case of my second child)...then someone will be picking the day..either the parent or the doctor?
So at that point what does it matter...the time will be when the doctor
can fit in the appt.

And like I said in my previous post...the baby may just come before then
of its own accord...

The poster already said her due date was Sept 12th..so obviously
there is nothing machavelian going on here with trying to great sometype
of super hero baby...mom just wanted to know if there was a timing preference for the proceedure..just like we would look for a good time of a wedding or starting a job or a surgery....

If nothing else this has been a jolly good discussion all around.
Mazel Tov to the parents and new baby.
And no I'm not jewish...
the saying is for one of good fortune...
meaning: may you be born under lucky stars
Ironic isn't it?

[archergirl]

If the situation is that a caesarian is called for (as in my case of my second child)...then someone will be picking the day..either the parent or the doctor?
So at that point what does it matter...the time will be when the doctor
can fit in the appt.

Yes, but this does not appear to be the intention of the querent. She said:

I am a Taurus, Virgo rising Pisces moon. The dad is a Pisces, Gemini moon, sag rising. Any suggestions as to when a good birth date would be for the baby, If I have any influence on this at all?

This implies that a) she is looking for the 'ideal' birthdate for her baby and b) this is a purely elective procedure. What the **** is wrong with September 12th!?

JerryRR:

Post #12.

Please explain.

Are you a robot, or is there a language issue, or what?

astro.teacher:

I think you would know me and my posts enough to know I am very much against such generalities.

I do, and I wasn't necessarily suggesting that that's what you were saying. I was taking issue more with the idea that being born under Aries at noon (giving a 10th house Sun, generally) brings glory and success. I understand the Ptolomean underpinnings; I was just giving an example of why being born under Aries at noon is an incomplete picture of an individual. We could just as well say that being born under Sagittarius at 10 in the morning brings not worldly success, but a **** interesting life. It takes the rest of the chart to pad things out.

AG