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Old 03-11-2006, 11:20 AM
CapAquVir CapAquVir is offline
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Synastry? Progressions? Transits? Oh My!

Hello to everyone here. This is a great forum, so many knowledgable people so willing to share. I'm also in 'Astrology Kindergarten' as someone else here said. I've been trying to upload charts, but can't figure it out.

I'll try to keep it brief, this is the love of my life, but we are not together. I have been dealing with some health issues, both my own and close family members for a couple of years.

Can you tell me if the relationship is over? Does he love me? Or is it just in that Aquarian 'love everyone' way? In my opinion and from what he has said...granted, some time ago, 'one true love'.

I would be so grateful for any insights, opinions on our charts individually or together...this is weighing so heavily on my heart...

Me
January 1, 1949
10:07 pm
Oklahoma City, OK

My Friend
February 12, 1949
8:30 pm
Stilwell, OK

Thanks for anything you can offer,
CapAquVir

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Old 03-11-2006, 02:21 PM
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First of all, welcome to the forums!

You may wish to check out the thread Help : How do I post a picture? where I posted a link to a guide I wrote on the Composite Grand Trine and T Square Board.

Me
January 1, 1949
10:07 pm
Oklahoma City, OK



My Friend
February 12, 1949
8:30 pm
Stilwell, OK



Synastry Chart:



Davidson Relationship Chart (Corrected):



Aquarian Maverick
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  #3  
Old 03-11-2006, 03:11 PM
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Can astrology tell you if relationship is over?

CapAquVir,

In my opinion, no, astrology can NOT tell you if relationship is over. But, if you ask the other person IN the relationship what THEY think, they can clear up this question pretty darn quick! Astrology can be useful to help us understand what we might be getting into in a relationship, but it is limited in what it can do to help solve our relationship problems once we are IN a relationship.

I was curious, because of your question, about what type of relationship you tend to look for, so I looked at your birth chart. You have Neptune (spirituality, also idealism) sextile (energy goes very easily with) Venus (relationships), indicating you may tend to look for the "ideal" relationship, only to get disappointed when your "perfect" relationship starts to show its flaws. It is important to understand there is NO "perfect" relationship: each relationship demands the working together of BOTH people in the relationship so that the relationship can work as best as it can. Perhaps if you decide what an "ideal" relationship is, find another person who shares this "ideal" vision of a relationship, you BOTH can work together to BUILD an "ideal" relationship with each other.

In the meantime, have a talk with this person, explain your feelings, and see what he has to say. Believe me, it will be MUCH easier to understand than an astrology reading!

Choosing life over astrology,

Tim
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  #4  
Old 03-11-2006, 11:57 PM
CapAquVir CapAquVir is offline
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Thank you Aquarian Maverick! You're very good at that!

Thanks Tim, yes that would work, the direct route, in most cases, but if it would work in this case I wouldn't be asking the question here.

Is there something awful or abhorrent in the charts? I wish someone would tell me please if there is. Does it say we are awful people?

Thanks,
CapAquVir
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Old 03-12-2006, 12:24 AM
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You've got some nice aspects in the Davison such as Venus/Juptier conjunction in the 4th house of home, trine Saturn in 12 which says something about maybe some secrets that relate to the house Saturn rules which is 8 which also has the North Node in there signifying the direction of the relationship. Eight traditionally rules sex, transformation, shared values and resources.

You also have Mercury conjunct Mars in the 5th house of romance, creative expression, children. Active communication however it squares the Moon in 3 and opposes Pluto in 11 to form a T-square. This says that the emotional communication is filled some jealousy/intense feelings as well as emotional disagreements. The opposing Sabian degree for the t-square gives a clue as to the nature of how it plays out. It reads:

53__(23)
A JEWELRY SHOP FILLED WITH THE MOST MAGNIFICENT JEWELS Abundance of permanent spiritual values; or social display of traditional racial achievements. Profusion of inner gifts.
___*When positive, the degree is a happy gift for shaping all vision to larger dimensions and directing all aspiration to more than trivial ends, and when negative, a greediness which betrays the soul with trifles.

Currently Neptune is transiting the combined Pluto and opposing the Mercury/Mars conjunction. This is creating confusion and uncertainty for the relationship.

Uranus is about transit the Descendant which will create a sense of wanting freedom within the relationship. That will square Eros which should challenge the sensual/erotic piece of the relationship.

Kite
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Old 03-12-2006, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Is there something awful or abhorrent in the charts? I wish someone would tell me please if there is. Does it say we are awful people?
CapAquVir - I believe you may be investing too much in your natal chart, as I have also fallen victim to from time to time. To quote Elianah's signature, "Each person is more than the sum of all of the astrological relationships in the person's chart."

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Old 03-12-2006, 05:30 AM
CapAquVir CapAquVir is offline
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Thank you, Kite, very much, really. I appreciate your response.

So are you saying for each nice aspect something not so nice comes along and spoils it? Let's see...sex secrets? Or secret sex? Or maybe secret transformations? Jealousy, jewels and greed of the worst kind?

How long has that Neptune transit been going on? Know when it might be over?

That Uranus freedom thing has been an ongoing theme for Mr. Aquarius since day one. So you think it'll get worse?


Aquarius Maverick,

Thank you, I really mean it, but truly I don't know enough about it, interpretation wise to invest too much in it yet. I thought there must be something awful when the charts were posted and there were no comments on them. Like on a TV show where they slap the X-ray up on the wall and the whole room goes silent...you know it's not good news.

Thanks,
CapAquVir
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Old 03-12-2006, 05:54 AM
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If this is so important..suggest you see a psychic but even then caution is warranted to put someone else's intuition above yours.
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Old 03-13-2006, 07:13 AM
C Jayne C Jayne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquVir
I thought there must be something awful when the charts were posted and there were no comments on them. Like on a TV show where they slap the X-ray up on the wall and the whole room goes silent...you know it's not good news.
Dear CapAquVir,

I'm afraid the other people who have provided posts here must not know how to indulge themselves in a little bit of neurotic obsessiveness. Hi. I'm C Jayne, and my Ascendant is in Scorpio, and for this task, I am your girl.

These two charts -- yours and your friend's -- have a lot in common, which is sometimes a "good" thing and sometimes not so good. There are no clear cut answers on this, but, being an obsessive person myself, I delight in speculating about these things.

Your two charts actually have several very interesting points.

I'm not fully clear whether you are male or whether both partners here are male, and that kind of has an effect on the words an astrologer uses when talking about Venus energies and Mars energies, but, really, a person's Venus energies are just their "female" side, and Mars energies are just their "male" side, and we've all got both of them, "male" and "female."

Your little clump of planets in Capricorn provides you with basically harmonious energies, which is nice if you're going to partner with a person who has as many oppositions as your friend.

Then, another nice thing is, since you both have Virgo Ascendants, you approach things the same way (picky and detailed and analytical). You each have Saturn in the same sign (12th), and it's nice to have similar fears (Saturn). But it's sometimes better to have different fears, so that one person can lead and the other can follow.

Your friend's Mercury conjuncts Venus, and yours conjuncts Mars. This is a pretty interesting complementary sort of connection between charts. Carly Simon and James Taylor had something sort of like this, only not as good. What these things "suggest" (freewill rules) is, your friend (Venus conjunct Mercury) likes variety in love, in order to stay interested, and he speaks in a sweet way. Your Mars/ Mercury conjunction suggests you speak in a forceful way, and you like variety in order to stay interested sexually.

These complementary things with your Mercurys suggests you'll find each other interesting, but it doesn't necessarily speak to whether or not you will communicate well with each other (i.e., speak the same language), and that's what partners have to do in order to work out problems. Your Mercuries are not in complementary signs or elements, but they don't square, the way Liz Taylor's and Richard Burton's did.

You have lots of earth, a little air (Moon in Aquarius) and a little fire (Venus in Sag). Your friend has not much earth, except for Saturn in Virgo, lots of Air, a little water (Mars in Pisces) and fire (Moon in Leo). So there is a tendency for one person to complete the other person -- which can be good, and can be bad. Basically, we all need to try and become complete human beings, and so, if one person has a lot of air and we don't, we may rely on them to be impartial and tactful, while we remain thin skinned or pitiful or ego-driven. And if one person has lots of earth and the other doesn't, the earth person may wind up having to be the practical one all the time.

My father, my brother and I all have Scorpio Ascendants. Dad and I have Leo Midheavens, and my brother has a Virgo Midheaven. I love these men, but I couldn't stand living with them. But you and your partner have the same signs for both your Ascendants and your Midheavens.

Something that is wise to examine on charts is the individual's ability to form relationships -- how they feel about themselves (according to their chart), and how they feel about sex and love, etc.

Your friend has:
(1) Moon (comfort) opposing(fighting with) Sun (overall life goals) and
(2)Saturn (fear) opposing Mars (sex or men) and
(3) Pluto (power or disappointment) opposing Venus (love),
each of which is rather troublesome.

Your chart suggests that you are probably very generous in your own ways (Jupiter/ Sun conjunction and Sag. Venus) although your manner might seem to some people to be rather cold or aloof (because you have no planets in water signs).

It's clear why the two of you would be attracted to each other, but there are some very good reasons for you, personally, to decide that if this relationship doesn't work out, it's not because you are not a sufficient person -- it might simply be because this friend is not capable of being a good partner.

Now, see? If the two of you get back together again, you're going to hate me. That's why the other astrologers/ astrology students didn't comment.

Good thing you don't live right next door!

-- C Jayne
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Old 03-13-2006, 08:17 AM
CapAquVir CapAquVir is offline
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Oh, C Jayne! Thank you so much! A girl (and, yes, I am a girl) after my own heart! I think 'neurotic obsessiveness' might be my middle name!

Yes, his oppositions and Virgo Asc have him weighing both sides of every possible issue. He thinks and thinks and then if he has the slightest doubt, he does nothing.

He is pathologically terrified of being 'bored' and, of course, he has a sweet voice, but very deep and masculine.

We do have to try hard to understand each other sometimes. We don't think alike, not to say we don't agree on the conclusions, just way different ways of getting there.

Yeah, his self-image is not so good. He was made to feel very 'bad' when he was little and he's very sensitive. He's the third of four boys born fairly close together. His parents had a horrible marriage, so, no example.

Well, I certainly can be cold and aloof, but I think something must compensate for that, some consciously and some unconsciously. I was raised in a family with very little affection and made a conscious decision I would not be that way with my own children and I am proud to have succeeded in that.

I understand what you're saying about him possibly not being capable of being a good partner, at least long term. Those are his concerns too. He's afraid he can't sustain a relationship. He's been married twice, to people, in my opinion, he just shouldn't have been married to. Anyway, that has caused him to doubt himself. Maybe he has good cause to doubt? I don't know...the guy's got some issues - but don't we all?

I am curious about the effect of his Aquarius Sun and my Aquarius Moon, also the Moon/Venus aspects. Not significant? Or messed up by something else?

In any case, I appreciate your response so much. I was starting to imagine perversion and axe murder...you know, neurotic obsession!

Thank you!
CapAquVir
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  #11  
Old 03-13-2006, 07:05 PM
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Arian Maverick Arian Maverick is offline
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Quote:
I'm afraid the other people who have provided posts here must not know how to indulge themselves in a little bit of neurotic obsessiveness.
Don't be mistaken--I certainly know how to indulge myself in neurotic obsessiveness with my Virgo South Node and Pluto apex yod. C Jayne probably wasn't even referring to me with that post, what with the four charts I uploaded near the beginning of this thread.

See? I am so neurotic that I responded anyway!

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  #12  
Old 03-13-2006, 07:49 PM
CapAquVir CapAquVir is offline
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Aquarian Maverick,

Neurotic Obsessives Unite!

CapAquVir
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  #13  
Old 03-14-2006, 04:29 AM
C Jayne C Jayne is offline
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Dear CapAquVir--

We lost some of the charts posted above, somehow, so I'm re-posting yours -- perhaps others will comment here too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquVir
I was raised in a family with very little affection and made a consious descision I would not be that way with my own children and I am proud to have succeeded in that....
Look at that -- look at that statement you just made. Then look at what we sketched out about your friend.

If your friend made a conscious decision to be different, he might begin to be able to overcome one or two of those three difficult oppositions. But what I hear you repeating from him is, he's pitiful (Pisces Mars), he's a victim, he had difficult circumstances...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquVir
I understand what you're saying about him possibly not being capable of being a good partner, at least long term. Those are his concerns too. He's afraid he can't sustain a relationship. He's been married twice, to people, in my opinion, he just shouldn't have been married to...
...Yeah, his self-image is not so good. He was made to feel very 'bad' when he was little and he's very sensitive. He's the third of four boys born fairly close together. His parents had a horrible marriage, so, no example. ...
... Anyway, that has caused him to doubt himself. Maybe he has good cause to doubt? I don't know...the guy's got some issues - but don't we all?
Don't we all? Well, maybe not as bad as those three difficult oppositions.

If you said to me, "What? This doesn't sound like my friend at all!" I would say to you, "Hey! Maybe he was adopted! Maybe we've got his birth info wrong! Trust your heart!" Because ultimately, that's what we all have to do-- trust our hearts.

But I hear you telling me exactly what I'm telling you, only you're saying it's okay that he's this way, and I'm saying, Your chart says that in your own way, you are very generous. Translation: You sometimes make excuses for people. You give them enough rope to hang themselves, and instead they hang you!

If your friend DID try to overcome the difficult aspects of his karma, he still would probably work out better with someone who is working on the same issues in a slightly different way -- someone with Venus conjunct Pluto or Saturn and Mars aspecting one of those planets and Sun square or conjunct Moon.

You don't have his problems, never had them, and can't teach him how to overcome them. You can only teach him that his pitifulness wins the golden ring. You can only give him a free ride, which really doesn't help his self esteem. He has to earn it, and do something on his own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquVir
I am curious about the effect of his Aquarius Sun and my Aquarius Moon, also the Moon/Venus aspects. Not significant? Or messed up by something else?
Well, I think I've made my opinion on this matter fairly clear, but someone else might want to comment. Sorry if I seemed to work up a bit of a lather there...

Broadly speaking, your charts offer reasons why you would be attracted to each other, and the aspects you cite head in that direction. But it takes two committed partners to sustain a relationship. You cannot find a committed partner so long as you are holding onto an uncommitted one.

I'm sorry. I know this is hard.

-- C Jayne
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Old 03-14-2006, 11:01 AM
CapAquVir CapAquVir is offline
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C Jayne,

First of all, thank you, I really appreciate your comments and for reposting the chart.

Can I just clarify a little bit? Most of what I know about him is from personal observation. We met and fell in love at first sight when we were 13 years old. We are, of course, way older than 13 now. We had an on/off relationship (big surprise!) all the way through high school. On/off because of the things you pointed out, I guess. Although I never understood it at the time. As I remember it, it was always about his 'freedom'.

One of the most important things you said was in your previous post about it not being because I'm not a sufficient person, because I've always assumed if I could do something different it would all work out. If I just knew what the 'something' was...

I read the descriptions of his aspects here:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astro...ects/index.php

I guess I've been hoping the charts would show that saving grace...

New mantra: It's not me, it's him...It's not me, it's him...It's not me, it's him...

I guess you can also see in the chart that I love very deeply. Does it also show how to heal from this? I can't think of a stronger word than painful, but it doesn't even come close.

Thank you very much for your time and concern.

CapAquVir
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Old 03-14-2006, 07:23 PM
C Jayne C Jayne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapAquVir
One of the most important things you said was in your previous post about it not being because I'm not a sufficient person, because I've always assumed if I could do something different it would all work out. If I just knew what the 'something' was...New mantra: It's not me, it's him...It's not me, it's him...It's not me, it's him...I guess you can also see in the chart that I love very deeply. Does it also show how to heal from this? I can't think of a stronger word than painful, but it doesn't even come close.
CapAquVir--

I'm sorry this is so hard. I can't think of a platitude that will make this easier, except, maybe, learn to appreciate yourself.

Blessings--

C Jayne
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Old 03-22-2006, 03:52 AM
CapAquVir CapAquVir is offline
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Spelling

Sorry, I found some spelling mistakes and I just couldn't stand it! (Vir Asc!) ops:
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  #17  
Old 03-22-2006, 04:33 PM
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Don't worry about it...I have a Virgo South Node in the traditional house of Virgo (sixth house), so I know exactly how you feel :roll:

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Old 03-22-2006, 04:39 PM
CapAquVir CapAquVir is offline
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Thanks, AM!

Are you becoming more comfortable with your identity change from Aquarian to Arian???

CapAquVir
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Old 03-22-2006, 04:48 PM
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Are you becoming more comfortable with your identity change from Aquarian to Arian???
Yes, I think I am...many things make sense now, especially that sixth house South Node in Virgo I mentioned before and my eigth house Pluto in Scorpio. Thanks for asking!

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Old 03-23-2006, 06:00 AM
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Hi CapAquVir,
I do not think astrology could answer the question concerning if the relationship is over. Looking at the synastry though some questions and some information can be laid on the table. Your Moons are almost perfectly in opposition to one another. This can be favorable but, this means the strong attraction comes with strain and arguments along with that stong attraction. The moon is also called the feminine or the emotional principle. Aquarian Moon children, (along with the other air signs), are emotionally attracted to different qualities in their mates (brainy, talkative, intellectual types) whereas Leo moon children (along with other fire signs) are emotionally attracted to forceful, assertive, won't be dominated types. You both being born so close together puts a lot of your planets in conjunction with each other which I have read is a positive attraction aspect especially your "personal planets" Jupiter back to the Sun are so called. I have also read having planets one sign apart causes strain and a loss of common ground for all signs EXCEPT Capricorn/Aquarius pairings. Saturn was the Old ruler of both of these signs and now co-rules Aquarius. So you are an exception to the rule. So you have some positive points and the only negative point is you may not be "emotionally compatible" or attracted to one another. Leo's emotional boasterousness may not seem practical to person with a Capricorn Sun. Thats a brief answer but I hope you understand alittle better. Remember the old saying "it ain't over till its over"
Take Care
Franklin
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Old 03-23-2006, 06:44 AM
CapAquVir CapAquVir is offline
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Thanks, Franklin! I really appreciate your taking the time to look at this and your positive approach. Takes the sting out a little.

I like your Moon characteristics descriptions and we are both somewhat like you described. He's a thinker, talkative has an overactive brain...I speak forcefully sometimes, appear assertive probably and in your face domination wouldn't be my favorite thing, but it would probably be comical as I'm only 5'1" and would look like a 5 year old yelling, "You're not the Boss of me!"

To me his Leo Moon-ness is just part of his charm, it also adds great warmth and affection.

We do both have Virgo Asc.

Hey, I'll take any positive points I can find!

I'll also add another old saying, often used by Mr. Aquarius himself:

Never say Never.

Thank you very much.

CapAquVir
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