Discussion of fensi's Horary Sports Astrology article in the Education section

[barty]

IN accordance with the wishes of the mods, who ask that we discuss articles from the Education board in their relevant sections, I've started a thread here about the Horary Sports astrology article.

It's a subject that has always interested me, and I began applying the principles of mundane astrology to sports forecasting with the Euro 2008 football tournament.....without much success it must be said!

I wondered what everyone, especially fensi, thought of my idea, which was to use the national charts of the participating countries and compare them in a Synastry-esque way with a chart set for the date and time of kick-off for the match between them.

I believe that in a national chart, the 5th house governs the entertainment, cultural and sporting aspects of the nation, and of course we all know that of the planets, Mars would be the one to pick for sporting things.

So I was looking for correspondences between the national charts of the countries and the positions of Mars / planets in 5th / and also aspects to MC or Saturn (the status and recognition associated with winning!) in my studies.

Like I said, I didn;t have much success.....at one point I was thinking Sweden would emerge as winners of the competition!!!!

So what does everyone think?

[Tzvetan]

Hello Fensi88,

First of all, many thanks for this article. I read almost constantly your explanations on your site (geocities) but I have some questions:
1. What happens if a ruler is retrograde?
2. What is the specific role of the Moon?
3. In the event chart we have to use Regiomontanus houses?
4. If Asc. is in Pisces (e.g.) I have to look over Neptune as ruler, or over Jupiter?
5. A ruler in a house like 6, 8 or 12 is weaker and this is a sign of loss?
6. A ruler being peregrine or in fall (as a sign placement) may be a disadvantage for that team?

Thank you a lot, and I hope I do not disturb you if I make other question on this subject in the future.
Tzvetan

[Tzvetan]

I think that it might be possible, but what is happening if we have a match like Manchester Utd vs. Real Madrid?

[fensi88]

Tzvetan, I will try to answer your questions.
1. I count it as bad sign for that team, unless if rx ruler is near ASC, so as time of match flow it comes closer to ASC and gain in strength!
If it is on cusp of 1st house, I count it as bad sign because, how time flow that ruler retire from ASC and lose on strength.
2.Unless if moon is not ruler of ASC or DSC it shows, as always, flow of events during the match.
3.Yes, in event chart and also in chart upon question I use Regiomontanus houses.
4.Ju
5. Yes, it is weaker, but not nessesary is sign of loss
6. In event chart we look accidental dignities first, but if thay are equal, than it is important essential dignities.

[fensi88]

Barty and Tzvetan,
Upon today we have not method which is 100% correct for predicting winner, so every idea deserve to be research.I do not work with national chart, because on Internet I found different version of charts for same country, so maybe your idea is good but you maybe worked with non accurate chart for that country. But we all know that only hard work brings desired results, so keep searching, but as I said try to find exact chart for country you do prediction.
Tzvetan, if she found her method work, we will use it for tournament where counties are participators, and when participators are from different country, but not national team, we will use horary. I want to say that we must not have one method for all events...

[LionKing]

Yea... it looks good... but when you say "home team" will be the AS and "visitors" are the DS. Just saying that could make a lot of losers when trying to predict who will win. This is how I do it.
1. The odds favorite is the AS.
2. The "other" team is the DS.
Now another way is using it as the "odds at home" team as AS. And of course the opponent as the DS. I have tried to use the best method that will limit the loss and increase the win. But be carful with the Via Combust, and you should do well. V/r LionKIng:sunny:

[Tzvetan]

Thank you for these answers. I still have some questions.
Now, talking about a conj. of a ruler with Asc, are there differences in interpretation between: a) a ruler conj. Asc – the ruler being in C12; and b) a ruler conj. Asc – the ruler being in C1?


What type of influence have the trans saturnian planets (Ur, Ne, Pl). I read that they may have a malefic influence. So, a ruler or the Moon aspecting one of these planets is particularly weak?


There are differences of quality between aspects of these 3 planets with others, or not (as we do in natal interpretation: trine – good, square – not good)? (e.g. in an event chart Ju square Neptune is bad but Ju trine Neptune is bad, too?). Because I read expressions like "... Neptune casting his malefic sextile..." and I didn’t understood.
Thank you



Tzvetan

[fensi88]

Now, talking about a conj. of a ruler with Asc, are there differences in interpretation between: a) a ruler conj. Asc – the ruler being in C12; and b) a ruler conj. Asc – the ruler being in C1?

Ruler conjunct ASc from C12, but less than 2degree (same sign) is stronger, because it applay to ASC, while ruler being in C1 separate from ASC, so his strengt decrease.

What type of influence have the trans saturnian planets (Ur, Ne, Pl). I read that they may have a malefic influence. So, a ruler or the Moon aspecting one of these planets is particularly weak?

As I know Pl is important only if it is less than 2 degree on ASC or DSC, than his influence is destractive. I do not count Moon's aspect with modern planets, because I do not work with them. Also, J.Frawley said if Ur is less than 2 degree on cusp of 10th it is strong testimony that ASC team will win.

In event chart it is not important what Moon;s aspect is (square or trine) but in chart upon question it is important; receptions too (I talk about traditional planets).

[Tzvetan]

So, you recommend me to work mainly with traditional planets?

Originally Posted by fensi88

In event chart it is not important what Moon;s aspect is (square or trine)

Is this a general rule? It may be applied for other planets like Mars or Saturn?

[Tzvetan]

I think it's easier to cast the "natal chart" of a sport club or of a national federation and then we could study the transits at the moment of the game.

[fensi88]

Yes, Tzvetan, you excellent phrase it:work mainly with traditional planets,that means, Su, Moon, Ve, Me, Sa, Ju, Ma.

[fensi88]

I think it's easier to cast the "natal chart" of a sport club...

That would be nice, but problem is that "time" data usually miss.

[LionKing]

I want to tell you something about the "Natal" thing. I used it because the late Sophia Mason used it. I tried it and ended up with some off readings. The best I have found so far... Frawley. But hey... I had a few wrong with Frawley's method. But the book says it is an art. So me in my rookie year, hey... a little time a little practice we all get better. V/r LionKing

[barty]

Originally Posted by fensi88

....I do not work with national chart, because on Internet I found different version of charts for same country...

In general, you use the chart for the most recent change in government or system of government, or when the country in its present form began.

You have to consider the moment when the population of the country felt the change take effect as well, a symbolic sort of view.

For example, you might use for Iraq the moment when a group of Iraqis pulled down the statue of Saddam Hussein in Baghdad, a very powerful symbol of the end of his regime, rather than the time when the new prime minister was sworn in, which was some considerable time later.

[mitkam]

I'm not sure about predicting results but I am pretty sure that there is a link between Zodiac sun signs and sporting attributes. From an analysis of Olympic medallists and also Ashes cricket players, I have found significant links for the signs of Aries (good arm power), Libra (good spinners) and Sagittarius (good aiming ability when on the move).

[LionKing]

Cincinattie Bengals vs Dallas Cowboys. Oct 5 at 415 in Arlington Texas.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?c...s=3&add=18&ast=


Ok... Dallas is Sat., and Bengles are Sun. Sat., is in their 7th H and that is not a good thing to see. That means that they (Bengles)may control certain areas of the game. The Sun is in the 8th H. Moon is in it's fall in the 11th H. At 26 Sag., POF is 26 Aries. Trining the Moon. Great thing to see. But Sun trines ASC with exact degree of 13. Of course Merc. is trining the ASC but it is combust. Sun Sqaures Jupiter and that means the Bengles will not make a lot of points. Because of the Moon and it's progress to the Moon. Jupiter 13 degree on the ASC and closer to the ASC than the Sun and Jupiter rules the 2nd H. My vote... Dallas Cowboys and they will make a lot of points. They are also 17 point fav to win.

Next Indianapolis Colts VS Houst Texans Colts are 3 point fav so we give hem the 1st H. Game is 1 PM in Houston.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?r...o.x=12&go.y=11

This will possibly the strongest chart of the teams of the day. Moon conj the ASC a win. Sun is in the 10th H. I heard that "Joy" is 9H for the Sun. But hey it's pretty happy in the 10H. Saturn is the Ruler for the Snd H. It squares the ASC and that means that their might be a struggle for points. But Sag is the Ruler of 1st and Jupiter happens to be placed there. Also conj of Cheron (wounded warrior) and North Node conj. Merc., is the Ruler of 7th H and it is combust. What else to say... Indi Colts will win.

[LionKing]

Ok Indianapolis Colts won 27-31. Dallas cowboys won 31-22. Both teams won... but not as well as I thought they would. Saturn? V/r LionKing

[fensi88]

Maybe because of fact that rulers in both charts are debilated.
In Dalass\s chart we have Sa as ruler of ASC peregrine, ruled by combust Me rx and Su as ruler of DSC team in fall.
In Colts\s chart we have ruler of ASC team Ju in fall and ruler of DSC team combust and rx.

[LionKing]

That's pretty good. I never looked at it that way. V/r LionKing

[LionKing]

Here is another one. Monday night football. New Orleans are 3 point favorites.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?c...s=0&add=18&ast=

I noticed that their is a near conj of APOF and Mars. Mars being ruler of the 7th H. Jupiter ruler of the 8th H is presently there. The Moon is also within the 8th H. Minnesota Vikings look good for a win on this Monday night. Venus ruler of 1st is cadent in 6th H. But it is sextile of the Moon. POF is in the 10H. Along with a conj of north node and Cheron. I have to give in and say this really is for New Orleans to win.

[adypric]

I am from Romania;If a game start at 9:30 pm the hour in Romania .London is the city where the game start;how i write the dates for this match?the hour ,the city ?i have janus software for predicting and i,m dont know how i put the time ,the date ,the city ;i saw an example for a game that ,in Romania starts at 9:45 pm and it was introducing the time 8:45 in london ;and another questions :i have a default location in my software (iasi ,romania) ;if i want to predict a game from lituania for example ?(lituania -romania 6 june 2009 9:00 pm ,hour of romania ,mariampole lituania); i can put this dates of this match ?

[Tzvetan]

Hey, Ady!
You have to make the chart exactly at the date and hour of the event. It is not so important that in RO is 9 pm but the game begins in London at other hour. You may search informations about the location on the internet (try that wikipedia). Careful that the exact name of the town is Marijampole, or former town Kapsukas in LT and it has the same time zone as RO.
Good luck, and I hope you'll write your prediction soon...

[fensi88]

I am from Romania;If a game start at 9:30 pm the hour in Romania .London is the city where the game start;how i write the dates for this match?the hour ,the city ?i have janus software for predicting and i,m dont know how i put the time ,the date ,the city ;i saw an example for a game that ,in Romania starts at 9:45 pm and it was introducing the time 8:45 in london ;and another questions :i have a default location in my software (iasi ,romania) ;if i want to predict a game from lituania for example ?(lituania -romania 6 june 2009 9:00 pm ,hour of romania ,mariampole lituania); i can put this dates of this match ?

One way is as Tzvetan said, i.e. put coordinates for town where match is played and local time of that town. If you do not know in what time zone is that city, just go to this site:
http://www.astro.com/atlas/atlquest-eng.html
enter name of town and than fill rest and program will itself put right time zone and coordinates.
There is another way, i.e., if you know town where match played, you put coordinates for that town, and than you put your local time for your city and appropriate time zone for your city. Do what is easier to you.

have janus software for predicting and i,m dont know how i put the time ,the date ,the city

There must be some help in that program where all that your questions is answered...

[banefranco]

Ok Gentlemen,
In short. I have placed at my thread one of possibilities when my system works with absolute precizion. Nowhere else simmilar system is not publiced. As I treat this site for public, I am sure that I do not have to graduate any Astrology university or publish the book to prove one system that works. So the information that there is no 100% working system is at least not true. As I explained with charts that Frawley's rules are not right and that when any system works occasionaly it is not the system I claim that my system is the only one published at this moment that works 100% under some circumstances.
The airplane flies under some circumstances so as my system works.
Above all I also gave the precize circumstances under which when those circumstances happen it undoubtely works.
The matter is My 'Range table'. One line as a gift, the rest you also have instructions how to discover.
So I hope that you understand that visitors using their free will has the opportunity to take a look at any thread opened.
It is simply not correct to claim something without any proof like chart placed.
Even more I would like from anyone to give me the link to any astrologer's site who gave so many predictions as I have done at my thread.
I will not bother anyone at this thread but this is matter of truth.

[banefranco]

I apologize here is the link to my thread for check
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=12172