Do I have Attention Deficite Disorder(ADD)?

[junetown]

i really have no experience in this, so any input would be greatly appreciated. it doesn't have to be extensive, I don't mean to take up too much of anyone's time.

i asked this at 12:02 pm

i'm not sure if location should be included, but i'm in st. louis, MO. (couldnt find the chart of the moment option on astro)

http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi...YZ-u1213980415

I understand that Venus should be myself, because of the libra ascendent.

venus is in leo in the 10th house.

i'm not really sure what would represent the "add" or the subject of the question. maybe my brain? or thinking patterns, possibly mercury?


i have no idea what areas represent what when it comes to medical astrology. sorry

[junetown]

venus in leo, with leo as self expression ...

in the tenth house of material action and duties


i can't wrap my brain around terms like this, astrology is such a backwards process for me. the terms like material action, identity action etc etc those are easier to work with when i start (for now anyway, still new to this) but i don't want to jump to any conclusions as i'm not sure exactly how horary works.

i did read about it a bit on a recommended website, and learned about where to find "me" in the chart, since i am asking the question and it's for myself, i assume i could use venus.

leo venus opposition the north node house 5 is an interesting placement. something i'm searching for in myself? also in aquarius.

what would represent the ADD? or, the concern of it?

moon in pisces worries me, but still I don't want to jump to conclusions. (edit: it's in aquarius - it looks like its in pisces)



i'm not using this for an official diagnosis, i'm just curious what the stars may have to say about it. it is a serious concern, however, as i'm worried it's something that may have gone untreated for most of my life.

[Summery Joy]

Not to belittle horary, but why don't you try this;
http://psychcentral.com/addquiz.htm

If this screening gives you a yes, go see a doctor.

[smilingsteph]

Well rising is libra, which maybe considers your mind trying to be balanced-
Venus is in the 10th house of leo,
Now for the issue of the question:
Personality is a first house issue,
Again we point to venus....
venus makes a trine to the AC- maybe you are more balanced than you think...
Moon in pisces, fifth house, how you express yourself...
Ruler of pisces is Jupiter, making no connection to the moon nor venus, so I would say no....
(again I am new myself)
You just probably express yourself in a creative way....

[junetown]

ah, see, i'm not sure if it's add (the symptoms all seem very accurate) or if it's just .. how i am?

i have chiron conj asc/gemini in the 1st house (partile opposition saturn) natally, with a merc retrograde in pisces. mars conjunct uranus ...

i cant focus. i day dream constantly. i cant stay on task with anything, never have been able to. i think faster than i speak, and i dont always think about what im saying i jumble words sometimes, or i just feel like i lose control when im talking and i'll suddenly stop .. retreat back into myself. people don't listen to me, or, they seem to just let it roll past them or not understand ... or i'm not taken seriously, maybe i get too excited and exaggerate about things. but i'm honest and i don't like to fib, so its frustrating when i feel like i'm being taken too lightly.

my mind also goes in circles, which i've read merc in pisces suggests.


i just don't know. i don't have health insurance and i tend to back out of things because i'm not very confident in myself, so i want to make sure i'm confident in this before i get in over my head.

i'll take that quiz, and see what it says. but i have a hard time relating to certain "phrases" if they aren't worded right. i guess i think kind of abstractly. (which helps with the abstract art passion )

[junetown]

i scored an 88, and it said highly likely. yipes.

and i may have even underexaggerated on certain things, because i don't want to think myself into the disorder. if that makes sense.

[Modcleopatra]

i feel your pain. i also have ADD and developed some things to keep me focused. reading your post almost made me cry. if you were talking to me i would listen!

[smilingsteph]

My sister is 34 and been called everything from dyslexic to retarded....she is by far not retarded....it was just recently that she was diagnosed with ADD...she has been taking the medications and today she is much more focused and able to take care of her daughter better...
Too bad medical attention is so expensive...and hard to come by these days...
Isnt there some sort of natural therapy for this?

[Modcleopatra]

on the risk of turning this post into a non-astrological piece, health questions perk my attention waaaaay too much to be ignored.

as far as i know, alternative therapies included high doses of b vitamins (soothes the nervous system) l-tryptophan (calming), 5 HTP (calming/balances mood but is not an antidepressant) i have also heard that just doing an amino acid blend with a b vitamin blend and a fish oil blend can do WONDERS for brain chemistry.

i keep a rubber band on my wrist and snap it when i start to space out or get distracted

[delilah4]

I don't want to come across as unsympathetic but I don't believe in ADD. I know this is going to be a long post, but if you're really concerned I hope you'll at least consider the following. Psychology was my major and I've written several articles on this.

When you are doing something you love or something that requires lots of physical activity, do you still have the same problems? If you have so-called "Attention Defecit Disorder" then the answer is no, because surprisingly ADDers lose their "symptoms" entirely under certain environmental conditions.

Definition:
illness - impairment of normal physiological function either physical or mental affecting part or all of an organism

Let me ask you something. If you meet a kid who is great at creative writing, but maybe he doesn't do so well in math would you say he had a mental disorder? No. You would say that like most people he is good at one thing and not so good at another. Therefore he is more productive in a math environment such as math class than in a creative environment. Once he leaves writing class and enters math class his "symptoms" of being less productive magically disappear.

Not too long ago jobs were more social and physical. An engineer was someone who had to be good with his hands and a seamstress was someone who needed to be able to handle chaotic deadlines (depending on the event) and needed dexterity. School was not sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day. Often education consisted of hands on apprenticing. Now all an engineer needs is to know how to sit in front of a computer and all a seamstress needs to know is how to put fabric on an assembly line for a big factory machine to do all the work. Yes there are exceptions, but I'm just trying to make a point. It's not a coincidence that there were no cases of ADD before the 1960's. ADD is what happens when you take someone who is physiologically not meant for repetitious, mundane, uncreative work with virtually no physical activity. The same way in the example above the child was not physiologically born with the same aptitude for one form of thought process over the other. This is why so many kids are dignosed with it. School is sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day! Not even non ADDer's are meant for that. The human body was not meant for sitting for long periods of time and this is why scholiosis and all these back problems have developed in our society. It's even worse for someone with "ADD" because not only is their body not meant for this environment- but their mind isn't either. It's a double whammy and the reason why ADDers tend to fidget so much when they're sitting for a while listening to slow information which does not interest them. The physical movement creates a harmonal rise in the brain to help keep it alert. So the brain actually sends the body the impulse to fidget to create this stimulation. Until recently in history, humans didn't need to fidget. They could just get up when they needed to do so. Now we go from sitting 8 hours a day in school to sitting 8 hours a day in front of a computer screen. An illness shouldn't be something that is there in one environment and then not there in another. It's not a coincidence that so many artists and athletes supposedly "had it" as a child. Once they get out of that suppressive environment of school and get into what they really love or at least something more fast paced they get "cured".

Schizophrenia: Someone with Schizophrenia cannot function in the world no matter what environment they are put in. THAT'S an illness. Autism: Autistic people can rarely function in the world without supervision. They sometimes have special talents, but even then they often need supervision in their environment in order to function. THAT'S an illness. Example of a non illness- Night Owl Syndrome. NOS is the inability to sleep at night due to the body's response to light. However these people can sleep just fine during the day. So basically if they just work nights their symptoms disappear. Oh-- So basically they are "sick" because they are not like most people? If you ask me this is nature's way of making sure we have people protecting the tribe while the rest of us are asleep. As long as they don't try to fall into the trap of what's so called 'normal' and try to force their bodies into sleeping at night which would require medication and a day job which they're obviously not meant for- Their symptoms magically disappear. A real illness needs outside help like medication to cure it. If all it takes is a night shift at 7-11 to cure it then it is not an illness. Psychology falls into dangerous territory when it tries to claim that if you function differently from others there is something wrong with you. There was a time when women who were more aggressive and were interested in excelling in life and wanted an education, were forcibly institutionalized and medicated because they were not like most women of their time. So psychologists diagnosed them as being mentally ill. These poor women like many of their time often had to suffer being someone they were not just so that they could be considered 'normal'. Yet if you were to transport those women to a more accepting environment their supposed "symptoms" would have disappeared instantly.

An ADDer is not like most people of our time. The genetic code for ADD comes from a time when most people needed to stay social, active and on their toes in order to make a living and survive. In the past few decades more and more jobs have succumbed to sitting at a desk doing menial uncreative slow paced work at regular intervals. At the same time more and more people are coming down with "ADD". Coincidence?

You don't have anything. ADD is a fallacy. You're not sick. Not anymore sick than a natural athlete at computer camp or a natural math wiz at sports camp. Were all different. Born with different abilities/talents. You can't take a fish out of water and then call it "sick" when it can't breathe. When you put someone with ADD in an environment that is chaotic or creative and fast paced they often EXCEL and function BETTER than everyone else. If there's a fire and everyone is frozen with panic it's often someone with "ADD" that siphers through the chaos and get everyone to safety. Psychologist know this and yet they still label it an illness. If that's an illness- sign me up.

If you "have ADD" you can cure your "disease" by finding or creating work for yourself that is less conventional to our current time of cubicals and computers. You need a more fast paced environment. ADDers tend to think quickly which is part of the reason why they are apt to daydream in slower paced environments. The brain goes full speed ahead, but in a slow, redundant environment there's no where for it to go so it wanders. We are living in a time where it's becoming harder and harder for an ADDer to find work that is fullfilling so it can definitely be tough, but if you're able to find something like that, you'll find that you won't need medication anymore. You'll be magically 'cured.' This is why when chaos ensues other people are unable to process it quickly enough and they often freeze or panic while those with ADD are there wondering why they can FINALLY think clearly. Our Police officers, Firemen/women, and EMT's are largely comprised of ADDers and what would we do without them? We are not honoring them or their service to society when the very traits that allow them to be good at what they do are the same traits we would just as easily classify as a mental disorder.

[smilingsteph]

Originally Posted by delilah4

Definition:
illness - impairment of normal physiological function either physical or mental affecting part or all of an organism

Schizophrenia: Someone with Schizophrenia cannot function in the world no matter what environment they are put in. THAT'S an illness. Autism: Autistic people can rarely function in the world without supervision. They sometimes have special talents, but even then they often need supervision in their environment in order to function. THAT'S an illness. Example of a non illness- Night Owl Syndrome. NOS is the inability to sleep at night due to the body's response to light. However these people can sleep just fine during the day. So basically if they just work nights their symptoms disappear. Oh-- So basically they are "sick" because they are not like most people? If you ask me this is nature's way of making sure we have people protecting the tribe while the rest of us are asleep. As long as they don't try to fall into the trap of what's so called 'normal' and try to force their bodies into sleeping at night which would require medication and a day job which they're obviously not meant for- Their symptoms magically disappear. A real illness needs outside help like medication to cure it. If all it takes is a night shift at 7-11 to cure it then it is not an illness. Psychology falls into dangerous territory when it tries to claim that if you function differently from others there is something wrong with you. There was a time when women who were more aggressive and were interested in excelling in life and wanted an education, were forcibly institutionalized and medicated because they were not like most women of their time. So psychologists diagnosed them as being mentally ill. These poor women like many of their time often had to suffer being someone they were not just so that they could be considered 'normal'. Yet if you were to transport those women to a more accepting environment their supposed "symptoms" would have disappeared instantly.

An ADDer is not like most people of our time. The genetic code for ADD comes from a time when most people needed to stay social, active and on their toes in order to make a living and survive. In the past few decades more and more jobs have succumbed to sitting at a desk doing menial uncreative slow paced work at regular intervals. At the same time more and more people are coming down with "ADD". Coincidence?

You don't have anything. ADD is a fallacy. You're not sick. Not anymore sick than a natural athlete at computer camp or a natural math wiz at sports camp. Were all different. Born with different abilities/talents. You can't take a fish out of water and then call it "sick" when it can't breathe. When you put someone with ADD in an environment that is chaotic or creative and fast paced they often EXCEL and function BETTER than everyone else. If there's a fire and everyone is frozen with panic it's often someone with "ADD" that siphers through the chaos and get everyone to safety. Psychologist know this and yet they still label it an illness. If that's an illness- sign me up.

If you "have ADD" you can cure your "disease" by finding or creating work for yourself that is less conventional to our current time of cubicals and computers. You need a more fast paced environment. ADDers tend to think quickly which is part of the reason why they are apt to daydream in slower paced environments. The brain goes full speed ahead, but in a slow, redundant environment there's no where for it to go so it wanders. We are living in a time where it's becoming harder and harder for an ADDer to find work that is fullfilling so it can definitely be tough, but if you're able to find something like that, you'll find that you won't need medication anymore. You'll be magically 'cured.' This is why when chaos ensues other people are unable to process it quickly enough and they often freeze or panic while those with ADD are there wondering why they can FINALLY think clearly. Our Police officers, Firemen/women, and EMT's are largely comprised of ADDers and what would we do without them? We are not honoring them or their service to society when the very traits that allow them to be good at what they do are the same traits we would just as easily classify as a mental disorder.

I fully disagree! I know you may have acquired a great deal of knowledge on this issue, but I disagree....

Namely about your interpretation of a schizophrenic...They cannot function in the world, WRONG! There are many people with this and they are able to take their medications and not have another onset for years! Tell that to a schizophrenic and lets see what they say...geez that was harsh!

Since you have acquired a degree, or studied as a major in college based on these issues then you would find a trememdous amounts of literature surrounding mental illnesses, how they affect others and how detrimental they can be; they are illnesses when daily life is affected. Surely then you disagree that psychology is even a real study or science, because most of those that go into studying psychology understand and believe that these people do have a problem and need help, thus the rational to even study this field.

Or I am guessing you may have studied very long ago, before more scientific evidence has been exposed based on psychological studies?

Yes you are coming across cold and unsympathetic, to the person starting the thread, she asked a question and to tell her that her symptoms are not anything more than acquired from an innate part of the brain is not fair...

Many of these people with the named above illnesses are functioning and can function in the world, or else what would you propose we do? Stick them in institutions? I mean if they cannot function, why have them around? That is the take I get from you based on your closed-minded response.

I refuse to respond to anymore of this on this proposed thread, this is an horary board and I regret even placing this here, but I had to respond to such an outlandish reply to the poster.

[junetown]

Guys, it's okay. I think all Delilah meant was "find something you like to do, you'll feel much better".

I'm not worried about ADD being a 'disease', just as I'm not worried about Pluto being a 'planet'. It doesn't change the facts, it's just a label and a major misconception that things would ever change when you gave it a different name.

wow. i can't believe i just said that, i changed my name a year ago.

anyway.

If I could do things I enjoyed all the time, I would. But I can't. And since it's society that may really have the disease, I don't have a choice but to seek help. I can't get all Chris McCandless-esque and run amuck in the woods, forgetting that I have duties to fullfill just because I have a hard time with them.


what i mean is, people with ADD or anything like it still have obligations like everyone else. maybe they're not programmed for boring schooling, or for boring work, but the thing is - we all HAVE to do these things today to get anywhere tomorrow, because society ***** like that and somewhere along the line we decided to let crusty old men run our lives.

now we have to live with it. all of us.

[tikana]

Hi
I think ADD is not a desease but a mental condition which was finally properly labeled in 94.
so i wouldnt be looking at 6th house...

i would look at Uranus ... or conditions of 3rd house since it involves everyday thinking and mental activities

I have ADD/AHDD plus dyslexia.. what helps tremendously is electricity.. I have to be very near electrical devices to keep my head grounded.

Cheers
Tik

[delilah4]

Originally Posted by smilingsteph

I fully disagree! I know you may have acquired a great deal of knowledge on this issue, but I disagree....

Namely about your interpretation of a schizophrenic...They cannot function in the world, WRONG! There are many people with this and they are able to take their medications and not have another onset for years! Tell that to a schizophrenic and lets see what they say...geez that was harsh!

You have proven my point. Function is DEPENDENT on an outside source- medication. That's an illness imo. That is what I have been saying. A person with ADD does not need medication UNLESS he/she is in a specific environment. None of what I've said has not been documented in virtually every book on ADD there is. They all confirm this YET they still call it an illness. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to me this is akin to the situation I mentioned in regards to instatutionalizing independant women.

There are plenty of people with schizophrenia, and all sorts of illnesses who do ok in the world. The point is that they NEED help in order to survive in the world no matter which environment they are put in. No matter what lifestyle they lead or which environment they are put in, without medication they are helpless and in some cases a danger to themselves. Yes having had a roommate who was schizophrenic, but only had two episodes in his life I am well aware that they can go on for years without an episode. He does what he can to avoid any stressful situations that may trigger an episode. However once that episode hits, putting them in a different environment isn't going to do anything for them. Meds are needed...because it is an illness. I didn't mean any harm. That is not my interpretation that is the dictionary's. Schizophrenia is defined as an illness. Illness is defined as something that creates an inability to function psysiologically. Therefore by default a Schizophrenic is defined as someone who is unable to function. It is not an attack. Unfortunately there is such a social stigma attached to mental illness that understandably many people take offence when it is spoken about. Funny thing is that mental illness and physical illness are often caused by the same thing- harmonal imbalances. Both Diabetes and Clinical Depression are the same. They're both caused by lack of hormone. Yet Depression comes with a social stigma while Diabetes doesn't. Unfair.

There are many psychologists who feel the same way about ADD. I abandoned the idea that ADD was a real condition when I was given the opportunity to tutor children diagnosed with it who were having trouble in school and found that as soon as I changed the curriculim to something faster paced, they all shot up to the heads of their classes and one of them even skipped a grade! I was given funding to try this again in a controlled environment consisting of groups that took meds and those that didn't and found the results to be astounding. Once there was a change of environment those who were not on meds suffered no ADD symptoms while those on Meds still suffered from them but just at a reduced rate. It's just my opinion no harm done. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

[smilingsteph]

Okay you are so backtracking what you said,
I am more upset about the fact that you stated,
Schizophrenics cannot function in the world!

So what if you take medications, does not mean you have an illness!!! Come on, I take medication for a headache, what I cannot function in the world? I have an illness, NO.
Even if I had ADD/ADHD then I can do many things rather than take meds, same with any other mental condition....

It is not the definition of illness by the dictionary that bothers me, it is your general idea that those with mental illnesses need medications to live a normal healthy life, or in your words to just "live okay"

Those children needed something different, not all those grouped in a mental illness need medications, simply proven, you changed the education program and then they did better.....did you cure them? will you go with them to every grade and continue the same program, no, eventually they may need medication, who knows..

I do as well as you might agree with me on this, that ADD/ADHD is diagnosed too frequently, by the wrong medical providers as well...
So the children in your group may have been diagnosed with the condition, but may not have even had it....
Then you have the drug companies out there, looking to make a buck on the MD's overly prescribing, to get kickbacks....
There are many problems with the medical system....and even worse, there are many mental illnesses that dont have enough research to back up the treatments....the brain is the most complex organ in the body, and truly we just dont know
But againas I stated before, there are those like my sister who was called retarded, and now she is on a great medication for her ADD and is really thriving well...
So who is to say that her condition did not exist? Or that she did not deserve treatment?
Not me.....

[tikana]

Originally Posted by delilah4

There are many psychologists who feel the same way about ADD. I abandoned the idea that ADD was a real condition when I was given the opportunity to tutor children diagnosed with it who were having trouble in school and found that as soon as I changed the curriculim to something faster paced, they all shot up to the heads of their classes and one of them even skipped a grade! I was given funding to try this again in a controlled environment consisting of groups that took meds and those that didn't and found the results to be astounding. Once there was a change of environment those who were not on meds suffered no ADD symptoms while those on Meds still suffered from them but just at a reduced rate. It's just my opinion no harm done. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

Hi

As ADD/ADHD person I have to disagree with you at least on my side and from things i have experienced. I CANNOT be in school for more than 2 weeks. After that i lose all interest and BORED. Yes, i have been placed in fast enviroment. By 2nd week i am tearing pretty much everything. I usually finish reading entire texbook by end of 1st week. The only thing that helps me if someone gives me a textbook and lets go off the hook in classes something like "go home come back for midterms and finals." I hate school with passion.
I have never been on any meds. I refuse to take them. I personally love this ADD/ADHD thing... my condition works in a very mysterious way. I cannot study during a day at all! I cannot work during a day either. On top of all, i cannot study like everyone else. I hate memorizing i need to understand how things work from the bottom to the top. On top of all, i have a long term memory. I can remember things from elementary to middle school as of it happened yesterday. i retain information like a sponge... not all ADD people fall into your experimental range. I taught myself hardcore programming, a few languages and now teaching myself playing piano with no help!

Tik

[Summery Joy]

OK.. I tried to read all those replies, but since I have ADHD myself, I couldn't! They were all very wrong, especially delilah's!

But, delilah, I did read the part were you said you didn't believe in ADD and immediately got furious. I am, however, assuming that whatever you wrote was in good faith. I do have a few pieces of information for you though. ADD exists, could be debilitating when not treated, and (like in my case) is highly likely to trigger an actual mental/mood disorder in the future, which cause the patient to malfunction.

My shrinks believe that there is a least a 90% chance that my bipolar disorder (and why it is more depressive than manic) was caused by untreated ADHD in my childhood. I actually qualified to be in a sample in a master's degree research on adult ADHD.

There's no room for believing or not believing. I wish it wasn't true, but ADD and ADHD are facts of life.

[tikana]

I strongly believe there is ADD and ADHD. It is just different degree and sideeffects that are in question.. some mild some strong .. some highly triggered by other conditions like Sorehearted case.. in mine it is dyslexia.

Mine is untreated but i am surviving not dying!

Tik

[Modcleopatra]

Hello friends,


I think there is a finer point to Delilah's post that I found intriguing and worth noting-- that there is a marked distinction between what we might call and "illness," and a "disorder." For example, diabetes is an illness, it comes with a kind of bodily pathology that is used to mean a diseased state. On the flip side, something like bipolar disorder or schizophrenia, is used to mean a sort of pathology that is a disorder of so-called normal functioning. It would be in line with I believe most medical standards and ethics, as we can all agree that diabetes is a disease and is a bad bad thing but doesn't make the person bad, whereas calling a mental disorder a disorder is more "value-neutral" because mental disorders can call the person's character into question more often than not.

That said, I don't think this is what Delilah meant, but that point was lurking around in there. I think what Delilah means is that ADD/ADHD could potentially be something that is situationally inappropriate, and only a disorder in certain contexts. Perhaps for some this MAY be true. Bipolar disorder makes a lot of people hugely creative-- treating it however does not mean we don't want this creativeness in society, or understand it, but perhaps having this disorder creates negatives situationally that override this creativity, thus necessitating the treatment versus investing in the creativity. As much as I believe in challenging society and its views on normalcy (go check out my stuff on paraphilic infantilism) I also think it is a safe and wonderful thing to go ahead and label and treat mental disorders. There is a standard to living by which we should adhere to. Is this standard too strict? Perhaps. I'm working on changing that, but I think we can all agree that this change must be a slow and respectful process. There are reasons we have a sense of normalcy and codes of behavior. Reasons that die hard. I agree that is considered normal behavior is contextual and changing, and perhaps a 100 years from now ADD/ADHD won't exist.

Anyway Delilah, let me put it to you this way: based on what I've read from everyone's responses, I've pulled out a bigger point which I think you might understand. IF we seek out and label something like ADD/ADHD, and it helps the lives of those who experience this alternative way of thinking, then is it really an issue if it is a "real illness" or not? I know that perhaps you get images of drugged out zombies with no life force (or pharmaceutical companies getting rich... or the people deciding what is normal increasing in power... YIKES!), but based on the reactions of a few in this thread, perhaps this so-called disorder is not such a bad thing to have labeled? Our planet is fairly live-wired these days. For some it might be nice to focus just a little easier. 200 years ago what is now known as tuberculosis, pneumonia, influenza, and bronchitis, were all called one thing- "the consumption." The treatment was to make someone swallow eggshells or go live in a cave. Aren't you glad we've gotten a little more specific in how we target certain issues, even if it is perhaps, a little overzealous?

Something that bears a certain similarity in my mind is plastic surgery. On one hand, I get frustrated thinking about this sexist capitalist consumerist society that promotes images of bodies that are all at once impossible to attain naturally and VERY expensive. It drives me crazy to think about how we are so image-obsessed. However, who am I to get into someone's face about their plastic surgery endeavor? What if they finally feel beautiful?

Delilah it's great that this is something you really care about.

Anyway, that's my piece.

As for looking for mental disorders in the chart, I would definitely say look at Uranus first. It's interesting, my year had a lot of unhappy uranuses (urani?) and we are kind of nervous wrecks!

Mod

[smilingsteph]

For some reason mod you always make sense out of things, bring clarity to an unclear situation...
My set off remark was that those with mental illnesses cannot function in life, that to me was the part that really did me in, also what did it was that this thread is Junetowns and she asked a question, so it felt to me that Delilah disconted junies feelings....
I dont think you Delilah meant to sound the way I portrayed it in my mind...
However Delilah, I am taking my gloves off, it is evident that we both feel very passionately about this issue....I think we could together actually make some good threads about this issue...turn this negative into a positive...
So I am sorry if I offended anyone, my dad is a schizophrenic and I can get very protective of his condition...
Sorry you all....
Muah
Hugs
Truce!

[delilah4]

Tikana: You are describing what happens to people with "ADD" exactly. However as smilingsteph put it (and I agree with her) ADD is a diagnoses given too often and unfortunately it is very common for people who have other things going on- more serious conditions to get the diagnosis of ADD instead. Your shrinks may very well be right. People, I do not know everything. :60: However I do have my own opinions which I do not share lightly and without research and I respect my view just as I respect the views and opinions of others. Because I did not have any emotional attachment involved to the origional conception of ADD in which I was taught, it was easy for me to switch to an alternative view when I was presented with mounting evidence. I believe should mounting evidence at some point come along proving that "ADD" is a chemical imbalance that must be medicated and controlled for optimal performance I wouldn't have a problem switching back. Unfortunately this evidence so far does not exist. Which is the reason why there is so much controversy behind such diagnosis. I've hit a nerve so I'm not going to post on this anymore after this.

I agree with you Steph & Modcleopatra in regards to how labeling can cause controversy and be problematic especially since the DSM keeps many labels under strict guidelines and definitions and well= humans just don't work that way. Yet labels and definitions are necessary for scientific communication because our puny human minds really cannot grasp the vast complexity of our own brains. Therefore as Modcleopatra has stated they are imperitive. Here is just one example of how definitions & labels in psychology often creates confusion and even controversy.
http://www.narth.com/docs/debatecontinues.html (This is merely the first link I came across that shows labeling example please don't assume that I am trying to make a point on the specific subject of the link)

This is why though I believe labels are necessary, I also believe that too many professionals fall into the trap of defining people by their labels. This can be detrimental to their patients and can cause anything from misdiagnosis to a slower healing process. Human beings are complex creatures that cannot be defined so simply. Hence labels as you both implied should be used with the understanding that they are merely necessary for research and communication but not a strict catagory to put people under.

If anyone at least wants to explore or consider what I've been writing about in regards to ADD you may be interested in some of the materials by professionals who believe simularly.

http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-ADD-Hun...6688509&sr=8-2

Though I definitely don't agree with ALL of this doctor's lectures & ideas they are very worth considering even so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia6OGEj6wW0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbwNg...watch_response

http://www.amazon.com/ADD-Success-St...6688509&sr=8-4

http://www.amazon.com/ADD-Friendly-W...6694325&sr=8-3

This last book doesn't get too into the clinical side of things, but I personally found it VERY useful when I got it years ago. Because I too was once diagnosed with ADD. It helped me alot and it's basis revolves around changing your environment to suit your needs. Took the same test that gave me this diagnosis a year later after changing my environment and suddendly I didn't have it anymore. This is why I was chosen specifically to tutor ADD children as they thought I'd have more understanding of the situation. Once my students began doing better than their non-ADD counterparts in school that's when I was given funding to do this some more with others. There are entire schools based on this model now for children who have been diagnosed- (unfortunately as it stands now they are VERY expensive). There used to be lot's of articles online showing clinical data as well, but now there are so many personal blogs on the subject that I really don't have the time to sipher through all of them to get to the articles on controlled experiments. I do have some from last year that I have saved and if anyone is interested in them feel free to PM me.


Medcleopatra: As stated, I think this is an excellant point you are making. My intent was merely to help because my own experiences and research have helped me so much and I've experienced first hand the difference a change in environment makes. When I read the original post I assumed there was concern over "having something." So I thought my post would make junetown feel better. Expecially since she expressed her concerns over having had something "untreated" for so many years. I may have been too blunt in my way of expressing this idea & if so I apologize. But I also believe that the reason so many people get upset by this idea that ADD is something that must be treated is merely due to social stigma. Some people believe that if ADD doesn't exist then that would mean that they are lazy and stupid afterall. NOTHING could be further from the truth and the insecurities ADD children and adults feel are largely in part to society suggesting such unfair and false accusations. It is true that there are people who believe ADD is nothing but a facade for those who are nothing more than lazy slobs. Fortunately however these people are mainly comprised of uneducated folk who never bother to actually read up on clinical data, etc. before offering such statements. In the medical community those that believe ADD isn't a true condition, believe that it is merely a false label derived from a time where jobs and schooling are becoming more and more geared towards certain type of personality traits and they certainly do not sympathize with those folk who think it's just an excuse out of responsibility. I'm not big on conspiracy theories, so I don't necessarily believe that ADD is a ploy by the pharmacuetical companies. I merely believe that it's yet another example of what we've seen too often in our history- confusing the environmental conditions where particular talents or personility traits are unable to be expressed with a mental condition.

Junetown: Yes, we are increasingly becoming a computerized inactive, detailed and slow environment that is not friendly to those with talents akin to having the ADD diagnosis. Unless we are rich enough to have someone else do the mundane detail work like fill out our tax forms etc.. we will now and then find ourselves in a situation where our "symptoms" come back. But why is it that when someone who is NOT ADD and therefore is likely to have trouble dealing with the onslaught of quick information, more chaotic situations and faster-paced environment - AND therefore they cannot concentrate or be productive under those conditions isn't considered to "have" anything? They too must deal with situations in life that are faster paced and more "big-picture" quality which they must suffer through at times. Why is it that in THEIR case THEY are not the one's considered to have the problem, but rather their environment is what's considered to be the problem? Because our environment in the last few decades has made slower-paced less hands on lifestyle the norm and therefore people who optimally function in that environment are considered "normal" that's why. Because fast pased chaotic environments are considered disorganized even if they are productive and many people find them uncomfortable that's why. Therefore in that case the environment is given the label and the people who cannot function in it are the "normal, healthy" ones. There is a theory that if our environment continues going in this direction in the following centuries the genetic traits that make up the ADD diagnosis will eventually become almost extinct. If you were to put 1000 people in a remote island in which only 10% did NOT have "ADD" it would be these 10% that all of a sudden have a chemical imbalance. Because they would not be able to perform very well under the faster paced environment that the rest of their population would undoubtedly create for themselves. They would be the ones offered medication to help them cope with the environment around them and the chaotic jobs they feel that have to keep. But even that society would need people with these 'talents' to take care of the more detailed, predictable solitary work that would be necessary. Compare this to Schizophrenia, and Clinical Depression- Conditions that have always severly affected quality of life in every historical context and every environment in the world and therefore in order to relieve their suffering chemical changes must be made within the brain. Changing social conceptions or changing the physical environment will make not make any difference in those cases. Again I reaffirm that I don't want to come across as closed-minded and I believe that everyone has beliefs and opinions that are of value on the subject. There is still alot of research that needs to be done and new insights still yet to come to being. But I believe these new insights are born from open-minded, consideration of all available possibilities.

SmilingSteph: That must have been hard for you. I think you and I have more simularities than you think. I have an uncle with Schizophrenia however he wasn't in my life much and I've only met him twice in my life. Unfortunately unlike your father medication hasn't done much for him over the years. He is the type to get violent under an episode too so he's been locked up in a ward for years now. The family hopes new developments in meds will make a difference someday. No one knows why some meds work on some schizophrenics and have little effect on others. Thanks for understanding that I really didn't mean any harm.

I was unable to hold down any job. After 2 weeks on any position I would get bored and became unable to function optimally on the job. But when I changed my environment to one that was more chaotic and ADD friendly my functioning improved dramatically and therefore so did my mood. Even though I didn't exactly love my job I was able to give my best of myself and able to thrive at the workplace and be more productive than others around me. I was able to hold it down that job for years until I had to move. It's a shame that such work is more diffucult to come by nowadays.

Having said all that:

Astrologically I believe the following aspects in my chart may have something to do with my "ADD" traits.

Venus in the 10th Leo
Uranus square Jupiter
Moon conjunct Neptune

Astrology Weekly's interpretation of Uranus Square Jupiter seems especially indicative of an ADD aspect.

edited to fix some spelling errors

[junetown]

well okay then.

anyway i've talked to some of my closest people and i've decided to find a way to see a doctor.

i'm not worried if it's a disease or not, i just need some help.




stop debating over ADD and psychology, it could take centuries - much like astrology.

[Modcleopatra]

oh come now, don't be a sour puss! why put an end to a fun, fruitful and lively discussion? tsk tsk. (i didn't see this as a debate) mental frolicking is awesome! (and good for you too!) also, you might have misread the discussion that was going on. but anywho, you MIGHT have ADD... based on your chart though i would be more inclined to interpret the venus in leo in the tenth has one hell of a hostess! do you have parties on the horizon?

[smilingsteph]

Well you do have a lot more information about the issue Delilah, while I agree that those with ADD can do well in a modified environment....I also agree that those with other mental illnesses can as well...I think that is where we disagree? I am saying this because I have seen it, but no medical literature other than nursing to back this up...
I do see those DSM categories of diagnosis get so discombobulated and really psychology seems so neptunian, as the lines of this and that get blurred at times...
We have a psychiatrist Dr. Coga at work, whenever a patient gets a little demanding we joke, call Code Coga, you know instead of a code blue....it makes our day lighter....sorry to laugh...ha ha
But really he comes in and based on the families assessment or mine/nurses he makes this diagnosis.....
Now tell me if I am wrong Delilah, but these diagnosis, whether rational/real or not can actually stick with a person forever, like the saying "once deemed a psycho you always are one." This is scary when it comes to medical coverage, getting a job, having children...it can haunt them forever!
Same with ADD I guess, rushing out to have a diagnosis by the wrong MD can really hurt you, if what I am saying is true....nursing school info, usually not that accurage
What do you think?

[Summery Joy]

Again, I trie to read all the long posts and got lost by the second paragraph.

I just want to say one thing. I don't care whether it's calledillness, disorder, disease, or even Jessica for crying out loud. It's important for the patients to get help, and for those surrounding them to get educated about the situation.