will we talk openly and reach a conclusion about our relationship?

[purple]

Hi all,
I am very excited to have drawn my first horary chart, and to join this community. I am pretty new to this; please bear with me if my interpretations are minor or inaccurate.

I posed the question whether I will have and open and sincere conversation about our relationship. I have been seeing this person on and off for about 9 months, with intervals going from every week to every month or two months. We often communicate via txt and online messages, but seldom have we gotten the chance to talk about it face to face.

The main problem is that he is not interested in having a committed, serious relationship for fear of losing his independence (and other factors I guess). I have become emotionally attached to him, and would like to have something more serious and defined between us to. I would like to clarify our feelings and reach a conclusion, either getting into something more serious, or stop seeing each other. Perhaps I am afraid of a negative outcome from a sincere conversation.

I am attaching the chart below. The question was made at 6:09pm on Tuesday, July 1, 2008 in New York, NY, USA.

On to the more complicated stuff:

• Ascendant is in Sagittarius, I am Jupiter. The question is about a relationship, so we go to the 7th house and find he is Mercury.
  Now this gets trickier for me, I don’t see any ingoing aspects between Jupiter and Mercury. There is opposition between Jupiter and the sun and Venus, that doesn’t sound that good you know.
• Moon conjucts Mercury (yay for communication?) and will soon oppose Jupiter (bad news?). It should be a good sign that the moon and Mercury are in house 7th, the house of relationships, right? Does it mean there is a chance for us to talk and end up having something more stable?
• Now, what is Jupiter, me, doing in the second house, the house of self-esteem? Am I trying to validate myself through this relationship? I don’t want to be too critical of myself but I find that I am too analytical of the situation… what I truly feel is another dilemma.
• I am having trouble with this point too, the sun and Venus are very close together, but not sure whether it’s combust or cazimi ( yay!). But they are in the 8th house, house of sorrows, well, it hasn’t been a happy situation, but sorrow is a word too strong for it.
• As to a matter of timing, I read that it should be calculated depending the degrees separating significators for an aspect to occur. It seems that in about 20 degrees Mercury and Jupiter will be in opposition, that would be in Cancer, a cardinal sign (plus my Jupiter is in Capricorn, cardinal too, which counts?) and the house would be succedent, so it is a matter of weeks (20 weeks?). I have a feeling I am not getting this correctly, please show me the light J
• What I also find it difficult is to discern retrogrades. Please, let me know if they have any significance in this situation.

I don't think I have reached any conclusion, my subjective part really weights in.

I am sure there are other significant points I haven’t touched; your help and conclusions(!) are really appreciated. Thanks!

[purple]

If the attached picture is too small and blurry to see, please click on my images on the right upper corner. Thanks!!!

[starlink]

Hi Purple! First of all, sincere welcome to this Forum!! I do hope you will enjoy every minute you are with us and that you will gain loads of experience here, like I did! The chart is OK.
I unfortunately have to run to the dentist right now, a filling fell out, (must be there at 12PM Swiss time, then at 3 to yet another doctor, nothing serious, so I will be home after 4PM and then have a go at this chart.

AT least one thing I can detect immediately is that the Moon is VOC, meaning either : "dont worry, things will go well" or " nothing will come of this conversation". It will all depend on the interpretation of the rest of the chart.
Also POFortune is in the 12th house which is an unfortunate placement I'm afraid.

Cheers, Starlink

[starlink]

OK, here I am, finally. Let me go through your own interpretation:

• Ascendant is in Sagittarius, I am Jupiter. The question is about a relationship, so we go to the 7th house and find he is Mercury.
• Very good
  Now this gets trickier for me, I don’t see any ingoing aspects between Jupiter and Mercury. There is opposition between Jupiter and the sun and Venus, that doesn’t sound that good you know.

When there is no aspect found between the main significators, then you have to look at the Moon and Mercury, because the Moon is your co-significator (always, except when Moon represents the quisited.
Moon left the conjunction with Mercury, which shows of course separation, Moon is ruled by Mercury which shows that you are sort of at his mercy. Also, because Moon is in his 1st house.

Moon conjucts Mercury (yay for communication?) and will soon oppose Jupiter (bad news?). It should be a good sign that the moon and Mercury are in house 7th, the house of relationships, right? Does it mean there is a chance for us to talk and end up having something more stable?

Yes, I think there is indeed a chance for you to get to some sort of understanding because the Part of understanding is conjunct the NorthNode and the NN is in the 3rd (your 3rd) of communication. Where we find the NN, there we find what would be good for us. It has not to do with Mercury and Moon being conjunct in the 7th. A conjunction like that does not exist in horary astrology. This sort of conjunction is only valuable in natal astrology. In horary you ONLY look at ingoing or outgoing aspects. Ingoing means that it is going to happen, outgoing means, it has already happened, it is over, it is finished, you missed the boat etc. So here Moon, moving the fastest of all the planets, has had the conjunction with Mercury about 5° = 5 days or weeks ago. Timing is very difficult so we wont go into that now.

For a talk lets look at your 3rdhouse ruler and his 3rd house ruler. You always count the 1st house first, so the 7th is his 1st and his 3rd house is ruled by the Sun with Mars and Saturn in it.
Your 3rd house is ruled by Saturn (we never use modern rulers except when they are very prominent, like being on an angular cusp.

With your ruler Saturn in his 3rd house,it shows that you like to have a conversation with him and his significator Mercury is in two different Mutual Reception with your 3rd house ruler Saturn so he will probably be receptive to your request .

• Now, what is Jupiter, me, doing in the second house, the house of self-esteem? Am I trying to validate myself through this relationship? I don’t want to be too critical of myself but I find that I am too analytical of the situation… what I truly feel is another dilemma.

Your significator in fall in the 2nd house just shows that your selfconfidence has gotten a dent maybe and that you feel like retreating a bit or that you feel that you are right and do not deserve this attitude of his.(he is a bit full of himself there in his own sign and accidentally dignified in that angular house)
Even so, you are in your own term which gives you strength, as is your Moon,peregrine, but strengthened by angularity. Moon is in Jupiters sign of detriment which could mean that your emotions could be your problem (to your detriment).

I am having trouble with this point too, the sun and Venus are very close together, but not sure whether it’s combust or cazimi ( yay!). But they are in the 8th house, house of sorrows, well, it hasn’t been a happy situation, but sorrow is a word too strong for it.
OK, in fact we dont have to look at Sun and Venus. They are the male and female prototypes,(animal sides) both in the 8th and that, in this question, does not play a role. Just keep it simple and only look at what is at hand here and that is communication, a talk.

• As to a matter of timing, I read that it should be calculated depending the degrees separating significators for an aspect to occur. It seems that in about 20 degrees Mercury and Jupiter will be in opposition, that would be in Cancer, a cardinal sign (plus my Jupiter is in Capricorn, cardinal too, which counts?) and the house would be succedent, so it is a matter of weeks (20 weeks?). I have a feeling I am not getting this correctly, please show me the light
• You are getting there however! What you in fact have to do is take your ephemeries and then see when the opposition between those two will occur. You see that Jupiter is retrograde!
• Normally you could say that there will be an opposition which in fact is a contact, even though it is a difficult one and often one that afterwards you wished it had not happened.
• In this case however, Mercury will hit the Sun and Venus before being able to oppose Jupiter. Not only that, Mercury will walk straight into combustion as well! I think he is not going to feel really happy either. But we should not look at this really because Mercury will have to leave his sign to do so. It is very much in the future. Mercury will not even reach the Sun whilst that one is in Cancer, but only when it is in Leo which will be on the 29th of July.(if you look it up in the Ephemeries)
• but if you dont look in the Ephemeries, then Mercury would conj. the Sun in 22° about and yes, in succedent houses, Cardinal signs makes weeks I would say. This sounds very unlikely because you want to see him sooner than that I would guess. You must also always look at the probability of things. If you want something to happen tomorrow and the degrees show 10°, then you cannot expect that it is in 10 weeks. More probable in 10 hours. So you see, anything outside sign borders does not really work in one question. It can be looked at if you want to know what happens after the talk you will have if you like. But for this specific question we only want to know if there will be a talk or not and some sort of conclusion or not.
• What I also find it difficult is to discern retrogrades. Please, let me know if they have any significance in this situation.
• Yes, retrogrades always are very important. they show weakness, pulling back or wanting to go back to the situation which you were in before (very likely in this question) and it can show "thinking things over", pulling out of a contract when in the 7th etc.

Personally I do think that you could have a talk, but that it will not solve your problems or that you will get to a positive conclusion, and that eventually you will retreat from continuing this relationship. This is also shown by the Moon leaving Mercury.
It looks all a bit too complicated and the Moon moving to combustion with the Sun, showing future trends, does not look promising.

I hope I am wrong for your sake so please do give me a feedback on what happens, even if it should be weeks later. That would be good for learning purposes!
All the best,
Starlink

[Moulin]

Welcome to the forum!

May l ask how old he is and what sun sign he is... seeing as he doesn't want to commit?

I know it's not horary - sorry

[purple]

Hi Moulin,
He's Pisces and in his early 30s... yeah, doesn't say much, does it? I hope you are doing alright.
Love,
--Purple

[purple]

Starlink,
thanks so much for your throughout reply. I'll go back and re-read it to better digest it, but the thing that was really impressive is the moon conjuct Mercury of 5 degrees that you pointed out.

Originally Posted by starlink

So here Moon, moving the fastest of all the planets, has had the conjunction with Mercury about 5° = 5 days or weeks ago.

I don't see the guy that often, and the last time I saw him was 5 days before posting the chart!!!
I'll let you guys know of any updates. Up to this point nothing new has happened, I haven't really pushed for anything either.
--Purple

[starlink]

Thanks for letting me know Purple. Timing is really the most difficult part of horary and to know if it is days, weeks, months or years, pooh, not easy, so now I can have a look again. Actually, it figures, as Merc. is strong and angular, which does show fastness (when the planet is strong it can act fast. If Merc. would have been weak here, then it could have meant weeks you see).
Starlink

[purple]

Thank you Starlink for the accurate interpretation.
This is a very very very late update, but the romantic issue with the guy was solved when I got this opportunity to travel abroad at the very end of july of 2008, beginning of august. I saw him and talked just before leaving. I don't remember talking about any relationship issues, but it was more like a friendly farewell.
I still kept in touch with him as friends while abroad but he wasn't in my mind like before.
All is good with him now.
--Purple